Bengals v Ravens (merged)

[HairOnFire]

Given how fast they got down a ton of points, I wouldn't draw any conclusions about how the O has changed.

Well why did they fall behind by a ton of points? Didn't it have something to do with the offense being remarkably inept the first half, especially in all 5 of it's first drives? And wasn't part of that inept play the result of a failure to complete passes on 3rd and 2 on each of the first two drives?

In fact, it seems to me that Gresham and especially Shipley were relatively late to get involved in the game.

Hardly. As Reedy documented Gresham played all but 10 of the offenses 76 snaps. Shipley played 58. So with Shipley playing all but 16 snaps, Chad playing all but 4 snaps, and Owens playing all but 3 you can get a pretty good feel for how often the Bengals lined up 3-wide in this one. It screams from start to finish. Furthermore, both Shipley and Gresham were heavily involved in each of the opening drives even if the pass attempts weren't directed toward them. And I've already mentioned Greshams blocking ability as a primary concern, right? Plus, I've already mocked the decision to focus on Owens in the first drive, and then Chad in the next, as a too predictable strategy based upon keeping our divas happy and involved.

Play calls over the first quarter and a half were pretty balanced run v. pass.

I don't think I care. And the primary reason I don't is because 3rd down and 2 to go is NOT a passing down. Furthermore, a rushing attempt on paper always looks the same regardless of the players used or the formations being run. And there's the rub because against New England the Bengals attempted to run out of multi-reciever sets more often. Furthermore, when rushing to the right they're attempting to run behind a TE who is a pass catcher, not a blocker.

It was only after the Pats went up 17-0 that they abandoned the run. No surprise there.

IMHO they abandoned the run on Wednesday when they put the final touches on their gameplan. Or how else would you explain their choice of throwing on 3rd and short on each of their opening drives?

[COB]

I want to see more touches to Bernard Scott, he seems to have the speed to run the outside running plays. Brat in his infinite wisdom, runs Benson on way to many sweeps, or outside the tackle runs. Benson needs to get north and south quickly, dont let him run down the line of scrimmage and allow the D to zero in on him.

More short pass routes to Shipley, Gresham and Scott this week please. Add Leonard in there too, if healthy. Take advantage of Ray's lost step in the middle.

Sounds like a good plan. Bernard looked pretty bursty.

Also, please block somebody.

[HairOnFire]

Yeah, I wish he were Ben Coates, the former NE Patriot TE. My mistake! I won't try to sugar coat it with other silly defenses or attack the one who pointed out my mistake. I screwed up there

Of course you're not going to attack me. After all, it was your mistake and in your heart you know I'm just doing my part in the epic and prolonged struggle to make you a better person.

Why would anyone say that having Gresham in there instead of Coates or Kelly would hurt the rushing game?

Because Gresham can't block very well.

I'll go out on a limb and say the reason Gresham was in there for 66 out of 76 plays was because they fell behind 31-3.

Tragically and predictably your limb just broke...causing you to fall upon your now wounded head. Because any player who plays that many snaps is getting snaps from start to finish and by design, not because of the score got out of hand.

[HairOnFire]

Brat in his infinite wisdom, runs Benson on way to many sweeps, or outside the tackle runs. Benson needs to get north and south quickly, dont let him run down the line of scrimmage and allow the D to zero in on him.

Keep in mind, the Bengals were an outstanding running team last season despite being one of the worst in the NFL when running up the middle. Or if you prefer, Benson has been most effective running off tackle behind a TE.

Just saying...

[Sea Ray]

Yeah, I wish he were Ben Coates, the former NE Patriot TE. My mistake! I won't try to sugar coat it with other silly defenses or attack the one who pointed out my mistake. I screwed up there

Of course you're not going to attack me. After all, it was your mistake and in your heart you know I'm just doing my part in the epic and prolonged struggle to make you a better person.

Thank you, I appreciate that

[HairOnFire]

You're welcome.

"That tingling sensation you're feeling means it's working."

[HoosierCat]

Because any player who plays that many snaps is getting snaps from start to finish and by design, not because of the score got out of hand.

Unless, of course, the score got out of hand very quickly -- which in last Sunday's case it did. The Bengals had a grand total of 14 offensive snaps before they were down 17-0.

[HairOnFire]

Because any player who plays that many snaps is getting snaps from start to finish and by design, not because of the score got out of hand.

Unless, of course, the score got out of hand very quickly -- which in last Sunday's case it did.

Unless, of course, nothing. Pointing out how quickly the score got out of hand only serves to call in question the players directly involved, and Gresham and Shipley both heavily involved in the Bengals formations from the very start, inclding the first two series that ended in punts after pass attempts fell incomplete on 3rd and short.

The Bengals had a grand total of 14 offensive snaps before they were down 17-0.

So whose fault is it that they had so few snaps, absolutely no points, and only one or two 1st downs to that point? Isn't the offense fully capable of producing more snaps simply by performing better, especially on 3rd down? And what were they doing on 3rd down? Worse, what did the offense do immediately after falling behind by 17 points? They geeked it up in the passing game again, right? Specifically, Palmer tosses a silly pass to a rookie TE who not only isn't looking, but probably ran a bad route.

[HoosierCat]

Pointing out how quickly the score got out of hand only serves to

explain why Gresham got so many snaps.

[HairOnFire]

Pointing out how quickly the score got out of hand only serves to

explain why Gresham got so many snaps.

Taking fragments of sentences out of context doesn't help you make your point, but it's all you've got left, right? Because watching the game itself would prove my point, not yours. And game logs and stats prove my point as well. So you're left with whatever you're doing now.

Besides, Gresham getting a staggering number of snaps isn't really the point, is it? No, the real point is why the Bengals offense was so inept for so long despite having so many receiving weapons. And to that end I've pointed towards the offensive gameplan, the formations run, and the players used. You counter with sentence fragments and by pointing to everything but the offense itself.

So I guess you're done, right?

[ArmyBengal]

Ok, enough of that Patriots thread. It's Friday. Who's going to win this weekend.

In my admited homer pick, I'm going with:

Bengals- 17

Ravens- 14

[bwillycuse]

Ok, enough of that Patriots thread. It's Friday. Who's going to win this weekend.

In my admited homer pick, I'm going with:

Bengals- 17

Ravens- 14

Im with you Army.

Week one did not make me lose faith. That is not the team we know.

Bengals-24

Ravens-13

Bengals D forces 3 turnovers and get 4 sacks.

TO, Chad, Benson all get a TD.

[membengal]

Baltimore 34 Cincinnati 10.

I can't shake the bad feeling I have about this team at the moment.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Baltimore 34 Cincinnati 10.

I can't shake the bad feeling I have about this team at the moment.

I also have a bad feeling heading into this weekend, but I dont think Balt will score 34. I'm thinking a reversal of last seasons miracle win at the end. Balti 17 Cinci 16 with TJ getting a late 4th quarter catch to put the fork in the Bengals. 0-2 sucks.

[HairOnFire]

Predictions?

If the Bengals offensive gameplan against the Ravens is based upon the familiar themes of grinding and being the bully I'll go with Bengals 17...Ravens 13.

But if it's yet another afternoon of the Bastard Sons of Paul Brown tossing the ball around the yard in an overly complex Clockwork Orange scheme then all my bets are off. And not just for this game, but the entire season as well.

[Stripes]

Bengals 27 Ravens 17

Palmer makes mincemeat of the Ravens' awful secondary. Benson gets a lot of carries (say 20-22), but doesn't crack 100 yards again. The defense still struggles to generate a pass rush, but Zimmer blitzes more than he did against New England to mask the problem. Ray Rice does very little on the ground but gives the Bengals fits out of the backfield. Flacco has a rather pedestrian game.

[ArmyBengal]

I see this week two different ways.

#1. I certainly have concerns headed into this game, but agree it more about what gameplan they choose to employ as opposed to it being the Ravens.

#2. I just think the Bengals will bounce back after the week #1, Shibacle (per Emmitt Smith)...

[Sea Ray]

Predictions?

But if it's yet another afternoon of the Bastard Sons of Paul Brown tossing the ball around the yard in an overly complex Clockwork Orange scheme then all my bets are off. And not just for this game, but the entire season as well.

Paul Brown? The guy who made his name pounding Jim Brown 30 times a game? Or the guy who's first ever draft pick was a center? No one will ever confuse Paul Brown with Mike Martz

[HairOnFire]

Paul Brown? The guy who made his name pounding Jim Brown 30 times a game?

Yup. In fact, it's the same Paul Brown who won championship after championship after championship long before Jim Brown first graced the national stage.

Or the guy who's first ever draft pick was a center?

First ever? If you're talking about Bob Johnson then you're talking about Paul Brown's first draft pick as head coach of the Bengals.....more than 40 years after Paul Brown began his professional coaching career.

No one will ever confuse Paul Brown with Mike Martz

True, but only because there's only one person considered to be the "Father of the Forward Pass".....a title Brown earned long before Martz was born.

[HairOnFire]

FWIW Joe Pong just sent me an IM saying he'll make his Bengal/Raven prediction on Monday.

[HoosierCat]

Taking fragments of sentences out of context doesn't help you make your point, but it's all you've got left, right?

No more that taking a wo sentence post and writing two paragraphs of nonsequiters proves yours, right?

Besides, Gresham getting a staggering number of snaps isn't really the point, is it?

No, actually, it was your whole point -- where the "limb snapped," right? And now it's the only thing you don't want to talk about.

[Sea Ray]

Paul Brown? The guy who made his name pounding Jim Brown 30 times a game?

Yup. In fact, it's the same Paul Brown who won championship after championship after championship long before Jim Brown first graced the national stage.

Or the guy who's first ever draft pick was a center?

First ever? If you're talking about Bob Johnson then you're talking about Paul Brown's first draft pick as head coach of the Bengals.....more than 40 years after Paul Brown began his professional coaching career.

No one will ever confuse Paul Brown with Mike Martz

True, but only because there's only one person considered to be the "Father of the Forward Pass".....a title Brown earned long before Martz was born.

As we know full well here in this town, a head coach is not in full control of the draft unless he is also the owner. So in case I didn't make myself clear, in Paul Brown's first draft in which he was in full control he opted for a center.

He understood the value that you espouse of running between the tackles.

[BengalszoneBilly]

He understood the value that you espouse of running between the tackles.

I've seen none of that this season, at least none worth mention so far. I feel our offensive and defensive lines aren't what they should be. No holes for Benson to hit, no pressure on the opposing QB. A recipe for disaster.

[HairOnFire]

Taking fragments of sentences out of context doesn't help you make your point, but it's all you've got left, right?

No more that taking a wo sentence post and writing two paragraphs of nonsequiters proves yours, right?

I don't think I'll spend much time debating the proper format and number of words needed to best say nothing at all, as you seem intent on doing. Suffice to say that your habit of quoting only a portion of a sentence is ample proof that any contribution you make to this thread will be as limited as your attention span seems to be.

Besides, Gresham getting a staggering number of snaps isn't really the point, is it?

No, actually, it was your whole point -- where the "limb snapped," right?

Whole point? I don't think I bothered mentioning Gresham until at least 90 posts into this thread, and only then to point out how many TE snaps are now manned by a very marginal blocker. You quickly countered by claiming Gresham didn't actually play much until the score got out of hand....a falsehood easily disproved by the fact that Gresham did in fact start the game, was heavily involved in the early drives, and throughout the entire game played all but 10 snaps. And to those points you countered with a sentence fragment, and now a yappy little defense of your posting methods.

And now it's the only thing you don't want to talk about.

I'll talk about anything you want, and even a few things you don't...including how pointless and irrelevant your involvement in this thread has been.

[HairOnFire]

As we know full well here in this town, a head coach is not in full control of the draft unless he is also the owner. So in case I didn't make myself clear, in Paul Brown's first draft in which he was in full control he opted for a center.

The only thing you've managed to make more clear is your miserable grasp of history. Paul Brown only agreed to become head coach of the Browns in 1946 if given complete and total control of all football operations, a demand happily met by Cleveland team owner Micky Mcbride. And Paul Brown retained full control of all football operations in Cleveland until after 1960 when Art Modell purchased the team from McBride.

Point blank, the center you keep mentioning was selected more than 20 years after Paul Brown's first draft.