Chad v Bayless

[gregstephens]

A little gift from me to you, Hair. And TJ. And the Instigator, too.

Don't thank me all at once.

/>http://www.nfl.com/videos/cincinnati-bengals/09000d5d813c7219/Sound-FX-Ocho-on-the-mic

:angel:

Wow. I never actually realized he talked THAT much during games.

That was a good find, actually. greenie will like that one.

You're right.. That was hilarious. That's what the game is all about.

Greg, can you change my name too?

Actually I don't think I can. Just go into your profile, click 'Edit my Profile', then click 'Settings', then click 'Change Display Name'.

[gregstephens]

From a physical standpoint Andre Johnson is the best WR in the league, Calvin Johnson is not far behind but he has not been able to put his ability to the test playing in gawd-awful Detroit. Personally I would take Larry Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson over 85 but that is about it, provided his head is on straight. There is/was no excuse for tanking a season and I will always be cautious around 85 because of that. That all being said WR like RB has a life expectancy of an organic tomato on my kitchen counter i.e not very long, and so the Bengals have invested all they should be willing to invest.

Welker doesn't play Chad's position and thus wouldn't have the same impact on the team. Moss and TO are too old. Wayne is the product of playing for the Colts and I think 85 would have similar results if not greater success in that system. Steve Smith the older is a shadow of his former self, Steve Smith the younger is too was sitting on the bench last season. Vincent Jackson was considered a bust until last year where he has seemed to put it together. Desean Jackson has a game that is pretty specialized and I am not sure it would work for us. Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, and Miles Austin? the league is full of guys who have hit big seasons and then were never heard from again, come see me when they have been to multiple Pro-Bowls.

Idiocy? Randy Moss is HANDS DOWN the Best WR in the NFL. Not Andre.

No disrepect Wraith, I like your post.. Can't believe someone would put those names in the 2nd paragraph over 85 lmao.

Although I'm glad to see this swing away from TAFKACJ (my new moniker for someone), you are again way off. Andre Johnson may be the most complete pass threat in the NFL since Jerry Rice and the heyday of Marvin Harrison. Watch him play. He is always consistent, always prepared, always professional and always puts up big numbers when healthy. He has a good young quarterback that is only going to improve as his o-line improves. The Texans are a solid feature running back away from being a constant wild card threat.

Period.

Since someone asked, the TAFKACJ is 'The Artist Formerly Known As Chad Johnson', not a reference to our friend TJ with a bunch of expletives thrown in the middle.

[derekshank]

I've already been vocal on my personal opinion about Chad... but is anyone watching him with Skip Bayless this morning?

I didn't think there was any way that Chad could be made a sympathetic character... but Skip Bayless is really that bad. What a douche. They are made for eachother.

[bwillycuse]

I've already been vocal on my personal opinion about Chad... but is anyone watching him with Skip Bayless this morning?

I didn't think there was any way that Chad could be made a sympathetic character... but Skip Bayless is really that bad. What a douche. They are made for eachother.

Nah, didnt see it. How'd it go?

[HairOnFire]

Bayless may be a bigger douche, but he's of no interest to me. Chad is.

I missed the first "down" between the two, but I'm recording the replay so I'll see it after work. That said, I watched enough to see two things that could cause serious blowback.

The first came when Bayless pounced on a claim Chad makes in his book about being frozen out by Bengal QB's after the word came down from above to not throw Chad the ball. Bayless asked Chad if he still stands behind that claim, prompting Chad to explain that's how he felt at the time...when he was disgruntled. Bayless mocks the idea before asking Chad if his new happier self still believes a player like Ryan Fitzpatrick would deliberately ignore him when open. Chad confirmed that he did....prompting Bayless to smuggly predict a negative media backlash in the city by the river.

The second source of potential blowback came in the final segment as things came to a close. Bayless offers a few backhanded compliments before chastising Chad for his endless self promotion, including OCNN, prompting Chad to defend himself by saying he does nothing for himself, it's all for the team, and most incredibly....Chad feels he's a team leader and these are the methods he uses to lead.

[kingwilly]

I've already been vocal on my personal opinion about Chad... but is anyone watching him with Skip Bayless this morning?

I didn't think there was any way that Chad could be made a sympathetic character... but Skip Bayless is really that bad. What a douche. They are made for eachother.

Nah, didnt see it. How'd it go?

The most interesting part of the book review is when they discuss Chad's allegation that the team/coordinators/qb conspiring to look the other way and not throw to him.

Now, after previously admitting that he tanked last year, an unforgiveable thing that undermines the trust he may have had with his teammates, and his own integrity, levelling this kind of an accusation is confusing.

Chad, did you have a "down" year because you tanked? Or because the team "Froze" you out? I suppose they are not mutually exclusive. I felt that there were many times he went un-targeted last year, when e was wide open. I chalked it up to Fitztunnelvision not being skilled enough to progress through his reads, not a team-edict to throw to anyone but Chad. The fact that after admitting he tanked the season he now levies this claim comes off as if he is looking to go forward with the basis for him poor year was rooted in a team conspiracy.

Ask yourself this, if the team knew (could tell) he was tanking (poor routes, missed assignments, missed hot-reads, etc.) and was effectively unreliable on the whole, is it unreasonable to consider that the team put more focus on getting the ball to people not named Chad? I think it is reasonable they probably did gameplan away from him, as he was truly ineffective, and by his own admission of tanking, and could not be counted on. So if it is the case that the team went away from him, how can we blame the team? To me it is good planning: Plan for the guys who show up and can be counted on.

Despite Chad's born-again attitude, when all is going well and when his campaign to vacate the team in effort and spirit proved futile, this entire episode simply reveals Chad for what low integrity and what poor character he has. Some will attribute it to his competitiveness, desire to win, etc. Some will chalk it up to him reacting to being on a team (SoP's team) that had not shown a dedication to assembling a winning team, read Defense. I think the root of these issues is a level of immaturity and lack of integrity that plagues many rich, father-less professional athletes. Chad fits the bill.

I think one of the other, less discussed issues is he very badly want to be liked. It is a self-esteem issue, also tied to immaturity. I do think he wants to be the best, and when the team has failed in years past he probably personalized the teams’ failure and made it his own, thus “people won’t like me because they don’t like my team”. As a rationalization, this fits with his egomania and borderline manic behavior.

Since we are about at the mid-way point of the season, I think he has a chance to continue to earn back what he tossed away: He can get back the respect and adoration he so flippantly tossed aside because things were not going his way and he did not get what he wanted, i.e. a ticket out of Cincy. If he simply does the things like I saw late in a pre-season game when during a timeout he shuttled water out to the 3rd and 4th stringers who were closing out the game he can get back what he wants. In the end, us fans will get what we want, a Chad who is dedicated to his profession but most importantly dedicated to his team.

[agreen_112]

A little gift from me to you, Hair. And TJ. And the Instigator, too.

Don't thank me all at once.

/>http://www.nfl.com/videos/cincinnati-bengals/09000d5d813c7219/Sound-FX-Ocho-on-the-mic

:angel:

Wow. I never actually realized he talked THAT much during games.

That was a good find, actually. greenie will like that one.

You're right.. That was hilarious. That's what the game is all about.

Greg, can you change my name too?

Actually I don't think I can. Just go into your profile, click 'Edit my Profile', then click 'Settings', then click 'Change Display Name'.

Thanks bro.

[HairOnFire]

Chad isn't interested in being the face of the Bengals. Chad is only interested in Chad.

Just for the record, while defending himself against the stinging broadsides of Skip Bayless...(snicker)...Chad actually described himself as....(wait for it)....the teams frontman.

[Wraith]

Anyone catch Chad on Sportscenter today? I haven't so would be interested to hear what he is saying.

[gregstephens]

A little gift from me to you, Hair. And TJ. And the Instigator, too.

Don't thank me all at once.

/>http://www.nfl.com/videos/cincinnati-bengals/09000d5d813c7219/Sound-FX-Ocho-on-the-mic

:angel:

Wow. I never actually realized he talked THAT much during games.

That was a good find, actually. greenie will like that one.

You're right.. That was hilarious. That's what the game is all about.

Greg, can you change my name too?

Actually I don't think I can. Just go into your profile, click 'Edit my Profile', then click 'Settings', then click 'Change Display Name'.

Thanks bro.

No prob, giz.

[Pidge]

Anyone catch Chad on Sportscenter today? I haven't so would be interested to hear what he is saying.

Just yacked about how the whole team has brought into Marvin's message and how he personally believes. Dream large etc etc. Empty vessels and all that. Nothing else terribly controversial I don't think.

[gregstephens]

I caught just about five minutes of Fredo and Skippy on First Take at lunch. It was the segment, I guess since I don't usually watch it, at the end of the show where they give 1-10 scores on football plays. Skippy was intentionally just being a prick, giving Adrian Peterson a two for pie-facing Gay from the Steelers Sunday, which I thought was a very cool play by the way.

He admitted he was just trying to get Fredo's goat.

Class acts all the way around.

[bwillycuse]

Man this thread is tiring. We have 10 more days of this.

We get it..Some of you think Chad is the epitome of what is bad with the NFL and he is just a dredge of a person who should just shut up and retire. Get off my team you cancer. You are the main reason we were 4-11-1 last year.

I swear - we are 5-2 and all we can talk about this week is how much of a jerk our leading WR is. Its sad. Not sure how some of you who slam him can cheer when he scores a TD. I would half expect jeers from the stands telling the bum to get out..we dont want you here.

I thought this would be a positive week here on Bengalszone. Depressing

[Pidge]

Man this thread is tiring. We have 10 more days of this.

We get it..Some of you think Chad is the epitome of what is bad with the NFL and he is just a dredge of a person who should just shut up and retire. Get off my team you cancer. You are the main reason we were 4-11-1 last year.

I swear - we are 5-2 and all we can talk about this week is how much of a jerk our leading WR is. Its sad. Not sure how some of you who slam him can cheer when he scores a TD. I would half expect jeers from the stands telling the bum to get out..we dont want you here.

I thought this would be a positive week here on Bengalszone. Depressing

Well as Bengals fans we're used to winning and sitting atop of the division. That stuff is old hat. Gotta find something negative to chew on during this all too run of the mill start to a season.

[gregstephens]

I swear - we are 5-2 and all we can talk about this week is how much of a jerk our leading WR is. Its sad. Not sure how some of you who slam him can cheer when he scores a TD. I would half expect jeers from the stands telling the bum to get out..we dont want you here.

I think the main point some of us have been trying to make, that admittedly is getting lost in 10 pages of banter, is that many of us CAN and indeed do separate the player from the Fredo. I can cheer when he scores a TD because he is a Bengal, and, as a Bengals' fan, I wish to see him succeed on the field. Most, except Gizzle (see Artist Formerly Known As agreen), have in some part acknowledged he's either still a jerk or has jerk-like qualities, or at least has the potential to revert to being a jerk.

I have no personal interest in hanging out with the guy. I'll take the TDs over the drops from last year any day of the week and...wait for it...two or three times on Sunday.

[HoosierCat]

The most interesting part of the book review is when they discuss Chad's allegation that the team/coordinators/qb conspiring to look the other way and not throw to him.

If you want to understand this a bit better, go pick up a copy of the book -- you don't need to buy it, just give it five minutes in the local bookstore -- and flip through until you find the section written by Hue Jackson. I don't have it with me, so I can't tell you exactly where it is, but it's in the first few chapters, IIRC. Like all the parts written by others, it's in a different typeface so it's easy to flip through and find them.

In a nutshell, one thing Hue says he learned about wide receivers from coaching Chad and TJ is that they really, truly, sincerely believe they are open every single solitary play. The whole "7-11 always open" thing is something Chad really believes. In which case, when he isn't getting the ball, there can be (in Chad's mind) only one explanation: the team is deliberately not throwing the ball his way.

[gregstephens]

The most interesting part of the book review is when they discuss Chad's allegation that the team/coordinators/qb conspiring to look the other way and not throw to him.

If you want to understand this a bit better, go pick up a copy of the book -- you don't need to buy it, just give it five minutes in the local bookstore -- and flip through until you find the section written by Hue Jackson. I don't have it with me, so I can't tell you exactly where it is, but it's in the first few chapters, IIRC. Like all the parts written by others, it's in a different typeface so it's easy to flip through and find them.

In a nutshell, one thing Hue says he learned about wide receivers from coaching Chad and TJ is that they really, truly, sincerely believe they are open every single solitary play. The whole "7-11 always open" thing is something Chad really believes. In which case, when he isn't getting the ball, there can be (in Chad's mind) only one explanation: the team is deliberately not throwing the ball his way.

I buy into that completely. The one thing I'll say about any 'elite' receiver, other than most of them do tend to be pains in the rear, is that they have this mentality. Fredo is a good receiver when he plays hard. Part of many's long standing frustration is knowing this and feeling he hasn't always played hard. I believe he has that mentality and a premier receiver has to have that mentality.

I also think his perception isn't that uncommon. We've seen it in TO, Steve Smith (Car) recently, Moss, Michael Irvin.

[TJJackson]

Man this thread is tiring.

Clue for you, free of charge - stop reading it, and definitely stop posting in it, unless you are simply lying when you say you are tired of it

We get it

No, "we" don't. Speak for yourself. Some here have their tongues planted so deeply up Ocho Quitto's backside that they may never be able to dislodge themselves.

Some of you think Chad is the epitome of what is bad with the NFL and he is just a dredge of a person who should just shut up and retire.

Chad has admitted to it. It is a fact. We don't 'think' it, we know it.

I swear - we are 5-2 and all we can talk about this week is how much of a jerk our leading WR is. Its sad.

I will continue to refute those who claim Chad is the second coming, who claim he is a top 3 receiver even in a 'good' year like this one, and etc.

They stop, I stop.

Not sure how some of you who slam him can cheer when he scores a TD.

I expect him to do the job he is paid to do

He is paid like a star WR, and ergo I expect him to perform like a star WR. Oh, and not just this year, but EVERY year during said contract. This is how a professional acts. But Chad is a petulant tantrum-throwing child in a adult body. He is paid as if he is a professional, but he is not.

[HairOnFire]

I swear - we are 5-2 and all we can talk about this week is how much of a jerk our leading WR is. Its sad.

I don't understand some of you. On this very messageboard there are plenty of feel good threads for the choosing, and every single one of the posters who are currently blasting Chad in this thread are busy being giddy in each and every one of those threads.

But according to some here it's depressing, somewhat pathetic, and perhaps a bit of a problem when fans who are critical of Chad openly discuss his current and future role in the media, including the things he's saying right now on nationally televised programs.

So what's the problem here? Why are some of you depressed? Are some of you worried about needless distractions? Do you fear a backlash? Do you fear this type of criticism, if it continues, might cause an unwanted mood swing in The Ocho?

[derekshank]

Personally, I think the fact that we're arguing about Chad is a good sign. Last year at this time it was the O-Line, Palmer's Elbow, Fitzpatrick's lack of skill, Chad's tank job, the lack of pass rush, and the potential for an 0-16 season.

Yeah... I love this thread!

[Pidge]

It was a smorgasbord of suck last yr.

[Ickey44]

Idiocy? Randy Moss is HANDS DOWN the Best WR in the NFL. Not Andre.

The proof is in your post. Moss hasn't been the best since his last year in Minnesota. He's a good WR now, but not premier or even the best. Andre Johnson has it all. Size, speed, and hands. He's the one WR in this league that can just run you over and do all the other things a premier WR can do.

Please, please, please stop being so ignorant and actually watch other teams besides the Bengals and you'd see this stuff for yourself. Look at the stats. They're available on NFL.com. There's plenty of ways for you to find this stuff out.

It should be obvious to you that you're never right since no one ever agrees with a thing that you say. Please step back into reality.

What? Who holds the record for most TD catches in one season? Where did he get that record? Not Minnesota. Your the only idiot dude, that gets old man so quit sounding like a broken record..

What Randy Moss did that season was phenomenal. What's even more special about him is that he still has it... Just like Rice was the best in the league for so many years.

We are talking about the best in the league right now, not 2007. Right now Randy Moss is not the best and Ocho Dinko is not a top 3 WR in this league. I challenge you to find one person that agrees with your assessment.

[HairOnFire]

The whole "7-11 always open" thing is something Chad really believes. In which case, when he isn't getting the ball, there can be (in Chad's mind) only one explanation: the team is deliberately not throwing the ball his way.

That's a lovely excuse Chad offers for his miserable numbers last season, but let's look closer at what his refusal to accept responsibility for his actions really means.

Chad thinks he's always open so when he doesn't get the ball it must be because the owner is deliberately attempting to harm Chad's reputation, and that owner doesn't care one bit if his unfair vendetta causes the team to lose. But it doesn't end there because Chad's accusation also implicates the head coach, the offensive coordinator, the wide receiver coach, and a host of players. All of them being accused of putting winning aside so that poor Chad could be punished by an owner who was angered by Chad's year-long temper tantrum.

Ridiculous? Absolutely, but Chad just refused an opportunity to refute the claim. In fact, he repeated it and said he still believes it to be the truth.

[agreen_112]

Idiocy? Randy Moss is HANDS DOWN the Best WR in the NFL. Not Andre.

The proof is in your post. Moss hasn't been the best since his last year in Minnesota. He's a good WR now, but not premier or even the best. Andre Johnson has it all. Size, speed, and hands. He's the one WR in this league that can just run you over and do all the other things a premier WR can do.

Please, please, please stop being so ignorant and actually watch other teams besides the Bengals and you'd see this stuff for yourself. Look at the stats. They're available on NFL.com. There's plenty of ways for you to find this stuff out.

It should be obvious to you that you're never right since no one ever agrees with a thing that you say. Please step back into reality.

What? Who holds the record for most TD catches in one season? Where did he get that record? Not Minnesota. Your the only idiot dude, that gets old man so quit sounding like a broken record..

What Randy Moss did that season was phenomenal. What's even more special about him is that he still has it... Just like Rice was the best in the league for so many years.

We are talking about the best in the league right now, not 2007. Right now Randy Moss is not the best and Ocho Dinko is not a top 3 WR in this league. I challenge you to find one person that agrees with your assessment.

You call me an idiot, THEN you specifically say in your post that Randy Moss "hasn't been the best since his last year in Minnesota."

What do you call 2007?

Your the freaking idiot dude, I don't even have to call you guys names, your common sense speaks for itself.

[Ickey44]

Idiocy? Randy Moss is HANDS DOWN the Best WR in the NFL. Not Andre.

The proof is in your post. Moss hasn't been the best since his last year in Minnesota. He's a good WR now, but not premier or even the best. Andre Johnson has it all. Size, speed, and hands. He's the one WR in this league that can just run you over and do all the other things a premier WR can do.

Please, please, please stop being so ignorant and actually watch other teams besides the Bengals and you'd see this stuff for yourself. Look at the stats. They're available on NFL.com. There's plenty of ways for you to find this stuff out.

It should be obvious to you that you're never right since no one ever agrees with a thing that you say. Please step back into reality.

What? Who holds the record for most TD catches in one season? Where did he get that record? Not Minnesota. Your the only idiot dude, that gets old man so quit sounding like a broken record..

What Randy Moss did that season was phenomenal. What's even more special about him is that he still has it... Just like Rice was the best in the league for so many years.

We are talking about the best in the league right now, not 2007. Right now Randy Moss is not the best and Ocho Dinko is not a top 3 WR in this league. I challenge you to find one person that agrees with your assessment.

You call me an idiot, THEN you specifically say in your post that Randy Moss "hasn't been the best since his last year in Minnesota."

What do you call 2007? Your the freaking idiot dude, I don't even have to call you guys names, your common sense speaks for itself.

Quit being a douche. You're the one that said that his record for TD passes made him the best in the league. That was 2007. That's why I brought up 2007. BTW, in case you don't know...it's now 2009.

But again, I'll type it in bold for you and hopefully it will help you understand.....We are talking about the best in the league right now, not 2007. Right now Randy Moss is not the best and Ocho Dinko is not a top 3 WR in this league. I challenge you to find one person that agrees with your assessment.