Chad v Bayless

[agreen_112]

Off the top of my head, WRs only (the list might be longer if we consider receiving TEs)

All of the following merit **consideration** as a better WR than Ocho Quitto

The first three who are definitely better receivers than Chad, ergo Agreen's claim of Top 3 are patently false, and in no particular order

Larry Fitzgerald

Reggie Wayne

Andre Johnson

Then the next 10 (or so) and again in no particular order

Randy Moss

Steve Smith NYG

Steve Smith CAR

Anquan Boldin

Marques Colston

Miles Austin

Vincent Jackson

Miles Austin

Dwayne Bowe

Percy Harvin

Desean Jackson

Sidney Rice

and I probably have forgotten to name a few who are either injured right now or just haven't had a good season so far this year - like perhaps Lee Evans of Buffalo. I have not forgotten TO -- I just think he's done, not a top 20 guy anymore. Those of you who like him a lot can add him to your own list

The measure of a WR is many things, but since there are so many different measurables - TDS, catches, yards per catch, % of catches resulting in first down or score, fumbles, does he return kicks or punts and if so, how often and how well? etc etc etc. And blocking, for which there is no measurable.

I am not gonna argue this further

My whole point is that Chad is no longer top 3, and might not even be top 10 anymore....despite playing mostly like the Chad of old (which is mostly a good thing) this year.

LMAO

TJ you really should read what you post.. No longer can you call me an idiot, ignorant, stupid, retarded or whatever it may be that makes you feel inferior to me... Never again can you ever say that with such a silly post as this ^^.

When's the last time you heard of Steve Smith (Car)?

Miles Austin??

Vincent Jackson, really?

Sidney Rice?

DeSaun Jackson, OMG???

Percy Harvin?

Dewayne Bowe, your kidding right?

Steve Smith?

Chad could run circles while dancing salsa around these guys. Yes they're talented, not NEARLY as talented as 85.

If you haven't been watching, Chad's doing a pretty good job at blocking this year. Open your eyes.

I'm not talking stat-wise. If you're looking at stats, you need to dig a little deeper. Maybe try to understand the game. They're only half of the equation.

Here's the true top 3..

Randy Moss

Larry Fitzgerald

Chad OchoCinco

Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, and T.O. are the next BEST WR's.

[Pidge]

Off the top of my head, WRs only (the list might be longer if we consider receiving TEs)

All of the following merit **consideration** as a better WR than Ocho Quitto

The first three who are definitely better receivers than Chad, ergo Agreen's claim of Top 3 are patently false, and in no particular order

Larry Fitzgerald

Reggie Wayne

Andre Johnson

Then the next 10 (or so) and again in no particular order

Randy Moss

Steve Smith NYG

Steve Smith CAR

Anquan Boldin

Marques Colston

Miles Austin

Vincent Jackson

Miles Austin

Dwayne Bowe

Percy Harvin

Desean Jackson

Sidney Rice

and I probably have forgotten to name a few who are either injured right now or just haven't had a good season so far this year - like perhaps Lee Evans of Buffalo. I have not forgotten TO -- I just think he's done, not a top 20 guy anymore. Those of you who like him a lot can add him to your own list

The measure of a WR is many things, but since there are so many different measurables - TDS, catches, yards per catch, % of catches resulting in first down or score, fumbles, does he return kicks or punts and if so, how often and how well? etc etc etc. And blocking, for which there is no measurable.

I am not gonna argue this further

My whole point is that Chad is no longer top 3, and might not even be top 10 anymore....despite playing mostly like the Chad of old (which is mostly a good thing) this year.

You named Miles Austin twice. You can name him 20 times he still hasn't done it for more than two games in his career. Harvin? WR, not returners. Sidney Rice has the potential to be a great receiver, not that he's bad right now. Vincent Jackson? Eh, bit of a stretch. Steve Smith of Carolina is having a s**t time right now and the Giants one - certainly a better possession guy, which is important. Overall is he a better receiver, or he is just more valuable to his team which is loaded with young guys at the position?

You can make a lot of arguments for the majority of guys you listed and 8 of them are definitely top 10 for me. Add Chad in there and even Lee Evans if you like and that's top 10 right there.

Objectively, when Chad is on top of his game he is one of the best receivers in the NFL. No amount of off the field douchebaggery will change that and to suggest it does is intellectually dishonest.

[kingwilly]

Here's the true top 3..

Randy Moss

Larry Fitzgerald

Chad OchoCinco

Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, and T.O. are the next BEST WR's.

can't believe I am baited into this...but here goes.

Child pleeze.

Child PLEEZE?

Chad is no longer a top 3 pass catcher, not top 10 but probably a fringe top 15...maybe #13 - Right Now (and considering last year - a rolling 2 season period.

Moss

Welker

Larry F.

Anquan B.

Andre Johnson

Roddy White

Colston

Brandon Marshall

TJ Houshandzedah

Reggie Wayne

Dallas Clark

Tony Gonzales

Lee Evans

Maybe even with T.O.

Granted, this is a fluid list. guys get better and worse for a lot of reasons.

HOWEVER - the reason should never be "I tanked it"

I will say this, he is showing the ability to get back to a Top 5 spot. Give me 90 catches and 1400 yards and we can have this discussion again.

[gregstephens]

Here's the true top 3..

Randy Moss

Larry Fitzgerald

Chad OchoCinco

Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, and T.O. are the next BEST WR's.

can't believe I am baited into this...but here goes.

Child pleeze.

Child PLEEZE?

Chad is no longer a top 3 pass catcher, not top 10 but probably a fringe top 15...maybe #13 - Right Now (and considering last year - a rolling 2 season period.

Moss

Welker

Larry F.

Anquan B.

Andre Johnson

Roddy White

Colston

Brandon Marshall

TJ Houshandzedah

Reggie Wayne

Dallas Clark

Tony Gonzales

Lee Evans

Maybe even with T.O.

Granted, this is a fluid list. guys get better and worse for a lot of reasons.

HOWEVER - the reason should never be "I tanked it"

I will say this, he is showing the ability to get back to a Top 5 spot. Give me 90 catches and 1400 yards and we can have this discussion again.

Hey, I know you.

Aren't you the guy that started this whole thread?

--signed 'The Instigator'

[kingwilly]

Here's the true top 3..

Randy Moss

Larry Fitzgerald

Chad OchoCinco

Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, and T.O. are the next BEST WR's.

can't believe I am baited into this...but here goes.

Child pleeze.

Child PLEEZE?

Chad is no longer a top 3 pass catcher, not top 10 but probably a fringe top 15...maybe #13 - Right Now (and considering last year - a rolling 2 season period.

Moss

Welker

Larry F.

Anquan B.

Andre Johnson

Roddy White

Colston

Brandon Marshall

TJ Houshandzedah

Reggie Wayne

Dallas Clark

Tony Gonzales

Lee Evans

Maybe even with T.O.

Granted, this is a fluid list. guys get better and worse for a lot of reasons.

HOWEVER - the reason should never be "I tanked it"

I will say this, he is showing the ability to get back to a Top 5 spot. Give me 90 catches and 1400 yards and we can have this discussion again.

Hey, I know you.

Aren't you the guy that started this whole thread?

--signed 'The Instigator'

Well, yes, I suppose. Didn't think it would get into "rating" the "best" WR's though. A fun exercise but not very scientific or more than a knee-jerk reaction to what Agreen and TJ were ranting about.

[Ickey44]

Here's the true top 3..

Randy Moss

Larry Fitzgerald

Chad OchoCinco

Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, and T.O. are the next BEST WR's.

More idiocy.

I would take Andre Johnson and Reggie Wayne over 85. I would also take Fitzgerald, Bolden, Welker, Brandon Marshall, Desean Jackson, Calvin Johnson, Steve Smith (CAR), and Roddy White over 85. Some of these receivers are definitely more talented than 85. But all are not divas (except maybe for Marshall) and they are team first players which, coincidentally, you need to have to field a winning team.

[gregstephens]

Here's the true top 3..

Randy Moss

Larry Fitzgerald

Chad OchoCinco

Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, and T.O. are the next BEST WR's.

More idiocy.

I would take Andre Johnson and Reggie Wayne over 85. I would also take Fitzgerald, Bolden, Welker, Brandon Marshall, Desean Jackson, Calvin Johnson, Steve Smith (CAR), and Roddy White over 85. Some of these receivers are definitely more talented than 85. But all are not divas (except maybe for Marshall) and they are team first players which, coincidentally, you need to have to field a winning team.

Dude, I would take Andre Johnson and/or Reggie Wayne over ANY other receivers any day, and that's not trying to 'instigate' any 'hater' comments about '-----'. Those two are studs. Can you imagine Andre on a competitive team? Schaub's a good QB, but give him Manning or Brees and a good number two WR to divert some traffic--WOW!

[Pidge]

Andre, Reggie (yet more Canes studs, we really spoil you nuffle fan bastards) and Fitz. My personal top 3.

[Wraith]

From a physical standpoint Andre Johnson is the best WR in the league, Calvin Johnson is not far behind but he has not been able to put his ability to the test playing in gawd-awful Detroit. Personally I would take Larry Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson over 85 but that is about it, provided his head is on straight. There is/was no excuse for tanking a season and I will always be cautious around 85 because of that. That all being said WR like RB has a life expectancy of an organic tomato on my kitchen counter i.e not very long, and so the Bengals have invested all they should be willing to invest.

Welker doesn't play Chad's position and thus wouldn't have the same impact on the team. Moss and TO are too old. Wayne is the product of playing for the Colts and I think 85 would have similar results if not greater success in that system. Steve Smith the older is a shadow of his former self, Steve Smith the younger is too was sitting on the bench last season. Vincent Jackson was considered a bust until last year where he has seemed to put it together. Desean Jackson has a game that is pretty specialized and I am not sure it would work for us. Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, and Miles Austin? the league is full of guys who have hit big seasons and then were never heard from again, come see me when they have been to multiple Pro-Bowls.

[Pidge]

Marshall is also great.

[Pidge]

From a physical standpoint Andre Johnson is the best WR in the league, Calvin Johnson is not far behind but he has not been able to put his ability to the test playing in gawd-awful Detroit. Personally I would take Larry Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson over 85 but that is about it, provided his head is on straight. There is/was no excuse for tanking a season and I will always be cautious around 85 because of that. That all being said WR like RB has a life expectancy of an organic tomato on my kitchen counter i.e not very long, and so the Bengals have invested all they should be willing to invest.

Welker doesn't play Chad's position and thus wouldn't have the same impact on the team. Moss and TO are too old. Wayne is the product of playing for the Colts and I think 85 would have similar results if not greater success in that system. Steve Smith the older is a shadow of his former self, Steve Smith the younger is too was sitting on the bench last season. Vincent Jackson was considered a bust until last year where he has seemed to put it together. Desean Jackson has a game that is pretty specialized and I am not sure it would work for us. Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, and Miles Austin? the league is full of guys who have hit big seasons and then were never heard from again, come see me when they have been to multiple Pro-Bowls.

OK, ignoring the fact that statement is obviously bulls**t, are you also saying that Chad has never been a premier receiver as he would also do well in the Colts system with Peyton throwing to him? I mean sure, Garcon and Collie have had good starts to their careers but does that mean all receivers there are overrated as result?

Wayne was great in college and is great in the pros. His numbers speak for themselves, you still have to make the catches and he makes them, all kinds. Were he just a product you'd think his numbers might be a little more up and down as his lack of talent would catch up once in a while.

I'm not saying he's the greatest of all time, but a product of a system? GTFO. This isn't college.

[HairOnFire]

can't believe I am baited into this...

For once I'm ignoring the bait...because Chad's level of play is almost irrelevant in any debate about his interaction with the media.

Granted, this is a fluid list. guys get better and worse for a lot of reasons. HOWEVER - the reason should never be "I tanked it"

But "tank it" he did. So the question faced today isn't really how quickly one group of Bengal fans chose to forgive Chad, but rather....to what level do we forgive? And on that score many of you seem willing to forgive ALL past trangressions....which is pretty remarkable considering where we've been.

[HoosierCat]

IMHO, the biggest mistake Chad has made this season...perhaps the only mistake he's made....is attempting to reclaim his previous position as the face of the franchise as if he hadn't waged a year long media war against this franchise, capped by his deliberate tanking of a season.

If Chad were a team leader he'd no without being told why his actions are inappropriate. But he's not a team leader, he's a E list celebrity....and even he knows his Ocho persona will quickly die without constant media attention. So he straps on the clown shoes and does his little Mister Bojangle shuffle four times a day for ESPN.

...same as it ever was.

No, it's not. Chad is going on a garden-variety media tour to promote his (actually, Jason Cole's) new book. That's why Random House set the release date for late October: the Bengals would be on a bye and Chad would have time to shill the thing. This isn't about his need for attention or an attempt to become the face of the franchise, it's about moving a few truckloads of dead trees. Every celeb "author," A or E list, does the same thing.

Chad isn't interested in being the face of the Bengals. Chad is only interested in Chad. Which is why the book is a steaming pile of crap, but that's another issue.

[HairOnFire]

Chad isn't interested in being the face of the Bengals. Chad is only interested in Chad.

But because Chad is only interested in Chad he's only to happy to assume the role as public face of the Bengals due to the exposure it gives to his one true passion, being Esteban Mucho Inko. After all, without football Chad's just another unfunny comic trying to get on a reality show. Besides, what better way to make people forget the way you tanked a season than by helping Dave Letterman do a TOP 10 list or by doing four interviews on ESPM Monday, and then four more on Thursday.

But like you said earlier, Chad alone will determine what role he'll play in the media, and if he wants it to be a huge role the media will be only too happy to play along. And apparently so will you.

As for the book tour, I'm sure we all understand what's going on there. But as you like to point out, this isn't the first time we've had conversations like this. In fact, the last time I remember commenting on Chad mugging for the camera when he very clearly wasn't the story was immediately after the Bronco game. So let's not act like this a new thing when in reality it's just the same old thing we've seen for years. (As if nothing had happened.)

...same as it ever was.

[HoosierCat]

As for the book tour, I'm sure we all understand what's going on there.

Well, no, apparently not, if you believe Chad's current rounds of the media has any greater purpose than to move some books. You're way too busy reading way too much into a promotional tour. Chad isn't doing this to become the face of the team, or make people forget 2008 (impossible anyhow), he's just selling a bad book.

If he didn't have the book coming out, I highly doubt he'd be getting on shows like Letterman. He would probably still be getting on ESPN, though not as much -- but why exactly is that wrong? Whatever else he's been, he's currently the top receiver on a 5-2 NFL team that looks bound for the postseason. That's an actual, legitimate sports story.

[HairOnFire]

Chad isn't doing this to become the face of the team, or make people forget 2008 (impossible anyhow)....

Well, you seem to have forgotten quite nicely. So much so that you get angry whenever people criticize the Nuevo Chad.

...he's just selling a bad book.

And so is Sarah Palin. And each of them will make the rounds doing whatever they can to sell books, gain exposure, makeover their tarnished images, and as a way to get their own self serving message out without being interrupted by pesky questions and troublesome facts. And when their respective book tours are over Chad Johnson and Sarah Palin will both quickly attempt to resume their roles as spokespersons for groups of people that would be better served by leaders who don't quit whenever the mood strikes them.

If he didn't have the book coming out, I highly doubt he'd be getting on shows like Letterman.

Very true. Then again, if the Bengals weren't 5-2 I'm guessing Chad never gets a sniff from Letterman, book tour or not.

[HoosierCat]

Well, you seem to have forgotten quite nicely. So much so that you get angry whenever people criticize the Nuevo Chad.

I don't have a problem with criticizing Nuevo Chad. Been doing it myself for much of the year. It's the folks who can't get past last year's Ocho Bozo I have a problem with.

[HairOnFire]

I don't have a problem with criticizing Nuevo Chad. Been doing it myself for much of the year. It's the folks who can't get past last year's Ocho Bozo I have a problem with.

Last time I checked Ocho Bozo and Nuevo Chad were the same person.....and to my knowledge there's no time limit on being pissed whenever a player deliberately tanks a season.

[gregstephens]

Well, you seem to have forgotten quite nicely. So much so that you get angry whenever people criticize the Nuevo Chad.

I don't have a problem with criticizing Nuevo Chad. Been doing it myself for much of the year.

So then does this make you Thurston or Luvie? Welcome to the island, you instigator, you.

[TJJackson]

Here's the true top 3..

Randy Moss

Larry Fitzgerald

Chad OchoCinco

Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, and T.O. are the next BEST WR's.

What an absolute ignoramus you are.

I am surprised your mama doesn't tape a note to your face every day reading "remember to breathe, love, mama"

[HoosierCat]

Well, you seem to have forgotten quite nicely. So much so that you get angry whenever people criticize the Nuevo Chad.

I don't have a problem with criticizing Nuevo Chad. Been doing it myself for much of the year.

So then does this make you Thurston or Luvie? Welcome to the island, you instigator, you.

I'm the giant spider in the cave on the other side of the island.

[HoosierCat]

I don't have a problem with criticizing Nuevo Chad. Been doing it myself for much of the year. It's the folks who can't get past last year's Ocho Bozo I have a problem with.

Last time I checked Ocho Bozo and Nuevo Chad were the same person.....and to my knowledge there's no time limit on being pissed whenever a player deliberately tanks a season.

No, there's not. But there's no law that says I can't tell you it's time to get over it, either.

[gregstephens]

I don't have a problem with criticizing Nuevo Chad. Been doing it myself for much of the year. It's the folks who can't get past last year's Ocho Bozo I have a problem with.

Last time I checked Ocho Bozo and Nuevo Chad were the same person.....and to my knowledge there's no time limit on being pissed whenever a player deliberately tanks a season.

No, there's not. But there's no law that says I can't tell you it's time to get over it, either.

Congrats on passing the 15 K post mark, btw. Well done.

[TJJackson]

Congrats on passing the 15 K post mark, btw. Well done.

Congrats from me as well

....err......

now who went and renamed Greg to "Instigator"........thats just cold, man :-)

[gregstephens]

Congrats on passing the 15 K post mark, btw. Well done.

Congrats from me as well

....err......

now who went and renamed Greg to "Instigator"........thats just cold, man :-)

I actually thought it sounded kinda cool. Hated my original decision to use the real name, just never really had a nickname hit me. Sparring with Hoosier on that point today, I thought, that's unique and catchy. So...I went all 'Ron Mexico' on it.