Chad v Bayless

[agreen_112]

Holy s**t, this is going to be a long 2 weeks....

I know right... I don't get it. This is a top 3 WR on OUR team. Having 85 on our team makes us better. He's having a Pro Bowl start to a season and they still wanna bitch. I really don't understand.

Not to get involved in the whole Chad thing, don't really care either way, but, I do think you are missing the point. Your post seems to imply people are bitching about his on-field performances. That isn't happening.

Oh I'm not missing the point.. My point is that his off-field "antics," his calling out of the head office has partially been one of the reasons this team has turned around.

They won't even considerer what I'm saying. All they wanna do is bitch about Chad quiting and wanting to leave... So what, we f**king sucked. I would want out to. I WANT TO WIN.

Change this s**t or I'm either not playing or I'm out.

They changed, we're winning now. I'm still here and I'm playing the best I have ever played. Bottom line.

Chad makes this team better. He made this team better in '05. He didn't make this team worse in '06, '07, '08. The head office did.

[gregstephens]

Holy s**t, this is going to be a long 2 weeks....

I know right... I don't get it. This is a top 3 WR on OUR team. Having 85 on our team makes us better. He's having a Pro Bowl start to a season and they still wanna bitch. I really don't understand.

Lemme help you understand.

I'm not griping about his on-field performance. He's doing what he's supposed to be doing. The orginal gripe by Hair was the media circus Fredo is now engaging in.

David Letterman? Really? Know when most football players go on Letterman? When they've won the Super Bowl. Last I check, we haven't done that yet. Yes the team is doing great now. Yes Chad's doing great now. Play the game, go on Letterman when you've won the SB MVP.

I know, that's not Ocho. He does this to have fun, and when he has fun, he plays better. Maybe that's the philosophical disagreement some of us have with him.

[gregstephens]

And for what it's worth, I think we should all take a breath here and realize that, while this conversation will continue without end until Chad is gone, we are all still friends on here. I mean nothing personal towards anyone engaged in this debate. I hope nothing's coming across that way. I'm not taking anything personal from any of you.

Now, continue...

[agreen_112]

Holy s**t, this is going to be a long 2 weeks....

I know right... I don't get it. This is a top 3 WR on OUR team. Having 85 on our team makes us better. He's having a Pro Bowl start to a season and they still wanna bitch. I really don't understand.

Not to get involved in the whole Chad thing, don't really care either way, but, I do think you are missing the point. Your post seems to imply people are bitching about his on-field performances. That isn't happening.

Exactly.

This has broken down, once again, to who likes Chad the character as opposed to Chad the player.

I see Hair's point in all this. Chad's playing well again, so he's off to the races in terms of the media. That is Chad, and one of the things some of us can do without. Not one single person, including Hair, has criticized Fredo's play this year.

But those of us that choose to not like Chad's persona, whether it's real or just a show, are 'haters' and 'whiners' and playing Gilligan in dinner theater apparently.

Get over it. Chad's a diva, it comes with the package of having a top 3 WR on your team. Bayless had a couple points, I'll admit that. Still doesn't change my opinion of Chad. He's the greatest WR this team has ever had and I'm thankful for that. He can help bring us a SB. If we get extra media coverage in the meantime, oh well.

It's all good Greg.

I'll be watching Thursday, what about you?

[gregstephens]

Holy s**t, this is going to be a long 2 weeks....

I know right... I don't get it. This is a top 3 WR on OUR team. Having 85 on our team makes us better. He's having a Pro Bowl start to a season and they still wanna bitch. I really don't understand.

Not to get involved in the whole Chad thing, don't really care either way, but, I do think you are missing the point. Your post seems to imply people are bitching about his on-field performances. That isn't happening.

Exactly.

This has broken down, once again, to who likes Chad the character as opposed to Chad the player.

I see Hair's point in all this. Chad's playing well again, so he's off to the races in terms of the media. That is Chad, and one of the things some of us can do without. Not one single person, including Hair, has criticized Fredo's play this year.

But those of us that choose to not like Chad's persona, whether it's real or just a show, are 'haters' and 'whiners' and playing Gilligan in dinner theater apparently.

Get over it. Chad's a diva, it comes with the package of having a top 3 WR on your team. Bayless had a couple points, I'll admit that. Still doesn't change my opinion of Chad. He's the greatest WR this team has ever had and I'm thankful for that. He can help bring us a SB. If we get extra media coverage in the meantime, oh well.

Ok, some of us don't like diva attitudes. I think that's been the point. We don't gotta like diva attitudes. No one is disputing what a motivated Fredo means to this team. Sometimes, though, that 'extra media coverage' can be a bad thing. The only thing that is guaranteed to produce good media coverage is winning. Not Fredo's media tour.

[gregstephens]

Holy s**t, this is going to be a long 2 weeks....

I know right... I don't get it. This is a top 3 WR on OUR team. Having 85 on our team makes us better. He's having a Pro Bowl start to a season and they still wanna bitch. I really don't understand.

Not to get involved in the whole Chad thing, don't really care either way, but, I do think you are missing the point. Your post seems to imply people are bitching about his on-field performances. That isn't happening.

Exactly.

This has broken down, once again, to who likes Chad the character as opposed to Chad the player.

I see Hair's point in all this. Chad's playing well again, so he's off to the races in terms of the media. That is Chad, and one of the things some of us can do without. Not one single person, including Hair, has criticized Fredo's play this year.

But those of us that choose to not like Chad's persona, whether it's real or just a show, are 'haters' and 'whiners' and playing Gilligan in dinner theater apparently.

I'll be watching Thursday, what about you?

In all seriousness, no. Not because of Fredo. Honestly past my bedtime. Wouldn't stay up to watch Palmer or Marvin either.

I'll await the numerous recaps.

And seriously again, when you see Fredo Saturday, tell him he's going a good job on the field, because I do think we all actually appreciate that.

[HoosierCat]

But those of us that choose to not like Chad's persona, whether it's real or just a show, are 'haters' and 'whiners' and playing Gilligan in dinner theater apparently.

Yup. Why? Did ya ever notice that every Chad thread here ends up like this?

Somehow, other boards and even blogs can mention Chad without it immediately turning into a rehash of 2008.

Not us.

Again, it's not about liking/not liking Chad or his persona. It's about the fact that on this board every single time Chad gets mentioned, this happens. And I'm sorry to say it, greg, but you are among the prime instigators.

What did Hair call my "hater rant" earlier? Tired, I think. Well, if it is, that's only because of the ample opportunity I've had to use it.

Is there anyone here who isn't tired of talking about Chad in 2008 yet?

[gregstephens]

But those of us that choose to not like Chad's persona, whether it's real or just a show, are 'haters' and 'whiners' and playing Gilligan in dinner theater apparently.

And I'm sorry to say it, greg, but you are among the prime instigators.

I'm calling bs on you on this point. I posted that first post about the face of the team and pumping up Palmer and Benson. YOU immediately followed that one up with the bitchbitchbitch comment. Two other people (not me OR Hair) dogged Fredo for trying to steal Benson's spotlight Sunday. Then some other guy used the term 'hater'. All of this occurred before I ever added another post to this thread.

And I instigated something.

Troll me then, big boy.

[HoosierCat]

But those of us that choose to not like Chad's persona, whether it's real or just a show, are 'haters' and 'whiners' and playing Gilligan in dinner theater apparently.

And I'm sorry to say it, greg, but you are among the prime instigators.

I'm calling bs on you on this point.

Really? You mean that was some other greg who write about a thousand posts villifying "Fredo"?

[gregstephens]

But those of us that choose to not like Chad's persona, whether it's real or just a show, are 'haters' and 'whiners' and playing Gilligan in dinner theater apparently.

And I'm sorry to say it, greg, but you are among the prime instigators.

I'm calling bs on you on this point.

Really? You mean that was some other greg who write about a thousand posts villifying "Fredo"?

Oh no, I've toasted Fredo many times on here. Many people have. But you called me an instigator. You go back through six pages of posts on this thread, I didn't instigate anything. I think I have the right to respond when someone labels me a 'hater', which is nothing but a little slang term to try to discredit someone with an opposing opinion.

If that's what you want, fine. I have nothing else to say about -----. I won't use his name. I won't comment when he has a good game. I won't comment the next time he implodes this club.

And if you really think I'm an instigator, report me to Terry. That's what you should do as a moderator. If he agrees, fine. I can take a deserved punishment.

I'm done on any topic that involves -----.

[TJJackson]

Chad's the ultimate team player

Only a moron believes that, as Chad has admitted he tanked last season and anyone who tanks an entre season cannot ever - except by a moron like yourself - be called a team player much less "the ultimate team player"

Aside from that, a team player does things like block for others, play special teams, tackle on interceptions - whatever it takes for the team to win. Again, anyone but a moron like yourself understands that Chad is none of these things.

Yeah last season was a mess, but you can't blame Chad.

We can

We do

We will continue to do so

Half the players out there would've done the same. Without Palmer, there is no Chad.

Actually, they are paid quite well, even those earning rookie min, to play to 100% of their ability

And no one else did 'the same", so your statement here is phenomenally ignorant

Without Palmer, there is no Chad.

Also incorrect, as Chad did quite well in 2003 with Palmer holding a clipboard

90 catches 1,355yards 15.1YPC 10TDs

Chad is good when Chad wants to be. Problem is, a true professional wants to play his best at all times. Chad is not a profesisonal

[TJJackson]

I know right... I don't get it. This is a top 3 WR on OUR team.

He's playing well....this year

That said, I would not say he is even one of the top 10, maybe even top 15 receivers in the league

[TJJackson]

Chad makes this team better. He made this team better in '05.

Not in the playoff game. I would argue he helped COST us that game with his selfish, childish attitude

He didn't make this team worse in '06, '07, '08.

He most certainly DID make this team worse, and in some ways, still does.

[TJJackson]

Get over it.

Nah, he is a quitter, a whiner, and a backstabber. A selfish child. And I suspect he always will be.

Chad's a diva

I agree - but I think you believe that term is a compliment, when I know it is not

it comes with the package of having a top 3 WR on your team

We dont have a top 3 receiver on our team

Maybe in the 10-15 range. Maybe.

[skyline]

I know right... I don't get it. This is a top 3 WR on OUR team.

He's playing well....this year

That said, I would not say he is even one of the top 10, maybe even top 15 receivers in the league

This year, or in his career?

This year so far:

Receiving yards - 573 - 4th

Receptions - 39 - Tied for 7th

TDs - 5 - tied for 2nd

You could argue that he doesn't block as well as the other guys, etc., but that's kind of hard to judge.

[Pidge]

I know right... I don't get it. This is a top 3 WR on OUR team.

He's playing well....this year

That said, I would not say he is even one of the top 10, maybe even top 15 receivers in the league

Name them.

[HairOnFire]

Did ya ever notice that every Chad thread here ends up like this?

Somehow, other boards and even blogs can mention Chad without it immediately turning into a rehash of 2008.

Not us.

And that's on you, not me. Because you're the one who keeps lobbing out your hater rant, a tired little bit of nonsense that is based upon the premise that Bengal fans like Greg, Shank, TJ, myself, and "every other Bengal fan I know" have something to answer for in how we react to Chad. But in truth, we owe you nothing....including an explanation. Because Chad admitted he quit, right? And that fact alone makes his example fairly unique, right? But no, you don't seem to think so, because when discussing Chad's off field antics you often trot out a stat line....or a ridiculous defense of all things Chawickian based upon collective fan amnesia.

What did Hair call my "hater rant" earlier? Tired, I think. Well, if it is, that's only because of the ample opportunity I've had to use it.

Again, that's on you. Because no matter how many times you attempt to defend Chad's off field behavior by using a stat line your rant will always be irrelevant. Furthermore, your "hater rant" presumes the best way to deal with Chad is to pretend the past didn't happen...like it was all a dream...and it's perfectly okay for Chad to resume his role as the face of the franchise as if nothing had happened.

Is there anyone here who isn't tired of talking about Chad in 2008 yet?

Here's a better question. Is there anyone here mature enough to intelligently discuss what future role a tarnished figure like Chad should have with the media as the Bengals attempt to transform their image from flaky losers into high character tough guys?

[membengal]

Re: the thread title...I am guessing

"Our douche"

will be tough to market.

[TJJackson]

Off the top of my head, WRs only (the list might be longer if we consider receiving TEs)

All of the following merit **consideration** as a better WR than Ocho Quitto

The first three who are definitely better receivers than Chad, ergo Agreen's claim of Top 3 are patently false, and in no particular order

Larry Fitzgerald

Reggie Wayne

Andre Johnson

Then the next 10 (or so) and again in no particular order

Randy Moss

Steve Smith NYG

Steve Smith CAR

Anquan Boldin

Marques Colston

Miles Austin

Vincent Jackson

Miles Austin

Dwayne Bowe

Percy Harvin

Desean Jackson

Sidney Rice

and I probably have forgotten to name a few who are either injured right now or just haven't had a good season so far this year - like perhaps Lee Evans of Buffalo. I have not forgotten TO -- I just think he's done, not a top 20 guy anymore. Those of you who like him a lot can add him to your own list

The measure of a WR is many things, but since there are so many different measurables - TDS, catches, yards per catch, % of catches resulting in first down or score, fumbles, does he return kicks or punts and if so, how often and how well? etc etc etc. And blocking, for which there is no measurable.

I am not gonna argue this further

My whole point is that Chad is no longer top 3, and might not even be top 10 anymore....despite playing mostly like the Chad of old (which is mostly a good thing) this year.

[HairOnFire]

I think I have the right to respond when someone labels me a 'hater', which is nothing but a little slang term to try to discredit someone with an opposing opinion.

But Hoosier doesn't really have an opinion at all, opposing or otherwise. And that's because there's no real defense for what Chad admits he did....so Hoosier doesn't bother trying. Rather, all Hoosier has that we lack is a greater willingness to ignore Chad's off field behavior, and that's apparently true of current behavior as well as past. So without a viable defense or a coherent opinion to offer, Hoosier gives us all that's left to him. Specifically, slang labels and dated references to sitcoms.

[membengal]

Ignoring all things Chad, other than what happens between the lines, is how I decided to deal with his shenanigans some time ago. I am guessing ML and his teammates adopted something similar as well.

[HoosierCat]

And that's on you, not me. Because you're the one who keeps lobbing out your hater rant, a tired little bit of nonsense that is based upon the premise that Bengal fans like Greg, Shank, TJ, myself, and "every other Bengal fan I know" have something to answer for in how we react to Chad. But in truth, we owe you nothing....including an explanation.

Nope, I'm not asking for an explanations or for anyone to answer to anything. I know perfectly well that you and many others dislike Chad, and exactly why. What I find pathetic is the endless need to repeat it.

Furthermore, your "hater rant" presumes the best way to deal with Chad is to pretend the past didn't happen...like it was all a dream...and it's perfectly okay for Chad to resume his role as the face of the franchise as if nothing had happened.

Nope again. I'm not defending or whitewashing the past. I'm simply living in the present. Which, when it comes to Chad, you're obviously incapable of doing.

Here's a better question. Is there anyone here mature enough to intelligently discuss what future role a tarnished figure like Chad should have with the media as the Bengals attempt to transform their image from flaky losers into high character tough guys?

Chad's role is really up to him.

[HairOnFire]

I know perfectly well that you and many others dislike Chad, and exactly why. What I find pathetic is the endless need to repeat it.

So you keep saying, over and over and over and over again. Which begs the question, aren't you being equally pathetic?

I'm not defending or whitewashing the past.

Please,your entire rant is either based upon collectively ignoring the things Chad has done OR trotting out a stat line during a debate about Chad's role in the media.

I'm simply living in the present. Which, when it comes to Chad, you're obviously incapable of doing.

At least I can talk about Chad, both past and present versions. But you can't seem to bring yourself into the conversation. In fact, the only thing you can seem to manage to do in this thread is mock people who actually have opinions while advocating we all pretend nothing happened.

It was all a dream.

[TJJackson]

What I find pathetic is the endless need to repeat it.

I understand this bit, and will simply say that I get pushed into it when any of a select few on here who have their tongues irretrievably glued inside Chad's a**h*** start spouting off about how great Chad his, and particular when they tell me he is a great team guy, and particularly when they say he has ALWAYS been such.

One might as well say up is down, that the Pope is an atheist, or that the Sun revolves around the earth.

Flat out as wrong as wrong can be.

Said another way - I am repeating because they are repeating - in reponse to their repeated bleating about the Sainted Princess Chadia

[HairOnFire]

Chad's role is really up to him.

I decided to give the above line it's own post,mostly because it's the only thing Hoosier has said in this entire thread that has any value.

Because it really is up to Chad.

IMHO, the biggest mistake Chad has made this season...perhaps the only mistake he's made....is attempting to reclaim his previous position as the face of the franchise as if he hadn't waged a year long media war against this franchise, capped by his deliberate tanking of a season.

If Chad were a team leader he'd no without being told why his actions are inappropriate. But he's not a team leader, he's a E list celebrity....and even he knows his Ocho persona will quickly die without constant media attention. So he straps on the clown shoes and does his little Mister Bojangle shuffle four times a day for ESPN.

...same as it ever was.