Chad v Bayless

[agreen_112]

Man, a few of you folks, on either side of this, really need to form some sort of support group.

I know right.. Mad Bengals fans. What's new?

Againg TJ, spin it how you want.

Chad may have "tanked" the season. Whatever. That's not the point.

The point, my point, is that he actually helped the team by doing so. He called out the front office and said they were not doing they're part in helping to make this a winning team. "If they (MB) don't care about winning, why should I (85)?"

I can understand that.. If I hadn't seen this not once, twice or even three times before, believe me I would've been all over Chad like stink on s**t. But history has a way of repeating itself around here with our star players. I'm sick of it. I'm happy Chad "tanked" the season. If that's what you wanna call it.

Look at us now...

[gregstephens]

Man, a few of you folks, on either side of this, really need to form some sort of support group.

Chad may have "tanked" the season. Whatever. That's not the point.

I'm happy Chad "tanked" the season. If that's what you want to call it.

You just gave us a lecture about how football is played on the Palmer thread, saying you play your best players. Then you throw this very contradictory little gem out there???

And no, that's not what I want to call it. That's what he has admitted it was.

[Wraith]

If you think that Chad's whiney "I want to be traded" act made any change to Mike Brown, you are delusional. It didn't change him when Pickens did it, nor when Dillon did it, nor when Spikes did it. To go further it didn't change the organization when Brandon Marshall did it in Denver, nor when TO did it...in San Fran, Baltimore, Philly, or Dallas (eventually though his earlier act did suffice the Cowboys to build the TO offense which guaranteed TO the ball). Any time a player, any player, puts themselves ahead of the team that player is wrong and will be smacked down off their pedestal.

This offense goes on Palmer and the Oline if those two components do their jobs the offense runs. Otherwise, you get what you got last year.

[HairOnFire]

So Hue knows his ex-pupil well.

Well enough to take a job somewhere else, I'd say.

Looney? Yup. But there's no malice or mockery intended, Chad just lives in his own frame of reference. It serves him well on the field, obviously, but off of it it, not so much, because the underlying assumptions aren't the same.

For the most part I agree, and that explains very well why I haven't criticized Chad's play or most of the things he's said and done off the field this season. The man apologized and I've forgiven him....to the point I'm able to forgive him. But as a Bengal fan desperate for a change in team identity I find myself recoiling in horror as I watch "Tank Boy" strap on the clown shoes again and again as he steps back into his old role as team frontman.

As for the whole "last year" nature of the book, that's obvious early on, and leads to endless laffs like his contention that we should have kept Levi and Stacy.

True, but the reason I mentioned how most of the book had been written more than a year ago, during Chad's blue period, was to help explain why he's still making excuses for last seasons poor numbers many months after he had appeared to accept responsibility for his own actions by apologizing for tanking the season. Simply put, a man can't take responibility for his own actions while he's still lobbing excuses....and jokes.

What struck me most strongly reading it is just how completely irrelevant it seemed this year.

Sure it's irrelevant. I mean c'mon, the Bengals are currently a first place team well positioned for a playoff run, and our self appointed team frontman is on a media blitz telling everyone who will listen about how Ryan Fitzpatrick refused to throw him the ball because the team owner was more interested in punishing poor Ocho than winning.

Bottom Line: It may be a new team, but our team frontman still wears clown shoes.

[kingwilly]

Man, a few of you folks, on either side of this, really need to form some sort of support group.

I know right.. Mad Bengals fans. What's new?

Againg TJ, spin it how you want.

Chad may have "tanked" the season. Whatever. That's not the point.

The point, my point, is that he actually helped the team by doing so. He called out the front office and said they were not doing they're part in helping to make this a winning team. "If they (MB) don't care about winning, why should I (85)?"

I can understand that.. If I hadn't seen this not once, twice or even three times before, believe me I would've been all over Chad like stink on s**t. But history has a way of repeating itself around here with our star players. I'm sick of it. I'm happy Chad "tanked" the season. If that's what you wanna call it.

Look at us now...

Chad did "tank" last season. not "may", not "whatever". He did. He admitted it, several times.

No, the team is not "better" for it. The team is worse for it. It did not "teach" SoP any lesson. It damaged Chad's image, legacy, and status with teammates and fans.

Now, Chad may be better for "tanking" last year. When one is as immature as he is, still reacting petulantly and selfishly to your professional situation and learning the lesson from it in the most graphic and public of ways, then yes, Chad could be better for it. But the team is not. The only person who gets any benefit from it is Chad, in learning the big boy lessons that acting un-professionally by tanking your job does not yield the desired result.

You know, Gizzle, your mental gymnastics on this stuff indicate a lot about you and what makes you tick. It comes off like you are a sad, entitled biotch, who can rationalize almost any behavior, no matter the collateral damage, as long as you agree with the goal. Unfortunately, in the real world, this is how we end up with people who steal (they are rich and won't miss this money that I need), drive drunk (the better judgment and the safety of society takes a back seat to my personal needs) subscribe to extreme religions and generally exhibit anti-social behavior. Call it what you want but it indicates shabby ethics, poor character and low intellect and integrity.

Take Chad. He admitted to "tanking" the season, and now is propping up a "they froze me out" theory.

If he tanked, should he return the money the team paid him? If he intentionally did not do his job, as we knew he could, is that fraud? Did he "cheat" the Bengals out of his salary? In many sports, when an athlete takes PED's, most consider that fraud or cheating. That athlete performed at a level, or attempted to perform, above what they naturally could achieve. They penalize those they catch, take away their salary, and ban them from their profession. If a player intentionally UNDER-performs and admits it, is that the same thing? The damage to the sport, the "fraud" or "cheating" of it, is very parallel. It robs the sport of something. It damages the credibility of what takes place, the “product” if you will.

"Chad can play better than this, he is just tanking and playing below his ability because he did not get his way. But it is cool, as I know he is WAY better than this and agree that this will teach the team a lesson so that Chad can get what he wants."

Same as..

"Player X is not usually this good but has taken substance X to go beyond his ability because he compromised his ethics and wants to get his way and land a big contract, gain glory, become popular, etc. But it is cool becuase I don't have any ethics and think a "win at all costs even chaeating" attitude is what it takes to get ahead in life"

One could make the argument that by Chad tanking on purpose, artificially not doing his job (and being paid for it) and admitting it a part of his effort to get out of Cincy or punish Cincy for not setting him free, it is the same "cheating" as if Chad had used PED's and had been caught "cheating" to artificially go beyond what he naturally could achieve. The same mentality that would be punitive about "showing up" management by tanking a season, for his own perceived benefit or selfish reasons, is the same as the one who would use PED's to get ahead for his own benefit or selfish reasons. It is the same issue. And you eternally confuse Chad's selfish quest for vanity and ego with the greater good or advancement of a team.

It is the same defect that causes nutjobs to take the "If I can't have you, no one will" route with their girlfriedn/wife. If Chad can't have success, then no one on my team will either. I'll simply "tank" and corrupt the team by intentionally not doing my job as well as I can to "prove" my love for winning: "I'll show them. I'll make them sorry. I'll teach them a lesson." Sound like a well thought out plan? Still think anyone wins in this situation or is "better" for it?

"Look at us now" you say... Do you honestly think the rsults on the field are a direct result of Chad and Chad's decision to TANK last season? Do you think anyone ponders Chad's "tanked" season and uses that as motivation? "Boy, we better really do it right, or else CHAD might TANK again, and we don't want that!" Do you really see that cause and effect here?

Hopefully, Chad does learn a lesson from this. Many players who are caught using PED’s also learn a lesson.

I very well could be wasting my time with this but think there are more and deeper issues with your positions and rationalizations for Chad's behavior than you think.

[TJJackson]

Chad may have "tanked" the season

Not "may have"

"did"

by his own admission

The fact that you refuse to accept this is a HUGE part of your problem here

Whatever. That's not the point.

It is VERY MUCH the point.

It is ****THE***** point.

The point, my point, is that he actually helped the team by doing so.

No, he didn't.

A player is paid to.....

.....uhm, follow closely here......

.....tell me to slow down if this is too fast for you.....

...play

He HURT the team by not playing

HURT

NOT HELPED

HURT

He called out the front office and said they were not doing they're part in helping to make this a winning team. "If they (MB) don't care about winning, why should I (85)?"

because he is f*ckin PAID -- PAID DAMN WELL -- to do so, and further signed his F*CKIN name (whatever it was at the time) PROMISING to do so, you flaming humongous F*CKIN IDIOT

Yeah, the Bengals ownership sucks

But that is seperate and distinct from Ocho Quitto.

Ownership controls their actions (or inactions) and is responsible for those actions (or inactions)

Ocho Quitto controls his own actions (or inactions) and is responsible for those actions (or inactions)

Just like you are responsible for failing to conserve money to pay your bills. it is not your creditors fault that you bought more than you can afford, IT IS YOUR OWN F*CKING FAULT

Maybe that's why you identify with Chad so much......you -- like he -- feels the world is out to get you and therefore your own actions and situations are someone else's fault, not your own.

Chad should Man up

and so should you

I'm happy Chad "tanked" the season.

As phenomenally stupid as you are, you may qualify for some form of disability benefits.

You may want to have your mom look into that for you.

[membengal]

For some reason, bayless douche is wearing the orange and black #85 jersey - I noticed on various tvs while at lunch.

[agreen_112]

Man, a few of you folks, on either side of this, really need to form some sort of support group.

Chad may have "tanked" the season. Whatever. That's not the point.

I'm happy Chad "tanked" the season. If that's what you want to call it.

You just gave us a lecture about how football is played on the Palmer thread, saying you play your best players. Then you throw this very contradictory little gem out there???

And no, that's not what I want to call it. That's what he has admitted it was.

Chad was in the game.. Yes, you play your best players Greg.

I think your taking the "tank" out of context. It was more of a statement. It they don't care about winning, then I won't do my part either.

[agreen_112]

Chad may have "tanked" the season

Not "may have"

"did"

by his own admission

The fact that you refuse to accept this is a HUGE part of your problem here

Whatever. That's not the point.

It is VERY MUCH the point.

It is ****THE***** point.

The point, my point, is that he actually helped the team by doing so.

No, he didn't.

A player is paid to.....

.....uhm, follow closely here......

.....tell me to slow down if this is too fast for you.....

...play

He HURT the team by not playing

HURT

NOT HELPED

HURT

He called out the front office and said they were not doing they're part in helping to make this a winning team. "If they (MB) don't care about winning, why should I (85)?"

because he is f*ckin PAID -- PAID DAMN WELL -- to do so, and further signed his F*CKIN name (whatever it was at the time) PROMISING to do so, you flaming humongous F*CKIN IDIOT

Yeah, the Bengals ownership sucks

But that is seperate and distinct from Ocho Quitto.

Ownership controls their actions (or inactions) and is responsible for those actions (or inactions)

Ocho Quitto controls his own actions (or inactions) and is responsible for those actions (or inactions)

Just like you are responsible for failing to conserve money to pay your bills. it is not your creditors fault that you bought more than you can afford, IT IS YOUR OWN F*CKING FAULT

Maybe that's why you identify with Chad so much......you -- like he -- feels the world is out to get you and therefore your own actions and situations are someone else's fault, not your own.

Chad should Man up

and so should you

I'm happy Chad "tanked" the season.

As phenomenally stupid as you are, you may qualify for some form of disability benefits.

You may want to have your mom look into that for you.

Chad tanked last year.. He also called out the owners (not in a T.O. or Dillon kind of way, in his own way. "I want to win" "I'm tired of all the losing" God damnit TJ weren't you tired of all the losing). The owners looked REALLY bad. Marv looked really bad. This complete organization looked bad. Not once did Chad disrespect the franchise. He simply said we're not doing what we need to do to be winners. He wanted out. MB forced him to stay. MB paid some good players to come in. MB drafted some really good players. MB did more in this offseason than he has done since he brought in Marv and No. 9.

Whether he got "Chad's" message or not is irrelevant. He (MB) got the message.

Now we're winning and Chad is having a great season. Things worked out...

...But you still HATE

[TJJackson]

One can only hope, using your own pathetic twisted 'logic' (if one can call it that).....

....that you decide (soon, I hope) that the other posters on the board aren't doing their job well enough, so why should you bother posting at all?

That'd really help this team (Bengalszone Forums) if you tanked on us in this fashion.

So be a 'team player' like Ocho Quitto and help out the team here, ok?

[HairOnFire]

I think your taking the "tank" out of context. It was more of a statement. It they don't care about winning, then I won't do my part either.

Sounds pretty noble until you remember how Chad also admitted his year-long media war against the Bengals, and the tank job that followed, were all part of a plan to force a trade upon the Bengals that would net Chad a new and bigger contract.

Or if you prefer, it was more of a statement. Something to the effect of..."If that's all they're paying me...then this is all I'm doing."

[agreen_112]

I think your taking the "tank" out of context. It was more of a statement. It they don't care about winning, then I won't do my part either.

Sounds pretty noble until you remember how Chad also admitted his year-long media war against the Bengals, and the tank job that followed, were all part of a plan to force a trade upon the Bengals that would net Chad a new and bigger contract.

Or if you prefer, it was more of a statement. Something to the effect of..."If that's all they're paying me...then this is all I'm doing."

It has nothing to do with money.. Chad said it himself, he's paid very well.

He wants to win. Bottom line. He wanted to be traded to a winning team. Someone where he could consistently make the playoffs. He was sick of losing.

If he were all about the money he wouldn't have helped to buy out the stadium a couple weeks ago.

[derekshank]

You know, Gizzle, your mental gymnastics on this stuff indicate a lot about you and what makes you tick. It comes off like you are a sad, entitled biotch, who can rationalize almost any behavior, no matter the collateral damage, as long as you agree with the goal. Unfortunately, in the real world, this is how we end up with people who steal (they are rich and won't miss this money that I need), drive drunk (the better judgment and the safety of society takes a back seat to my personal needs) subscribe to extreme religions and generally exhibit anti-social behavior. Call it what you want but it indicates shabby ethics, poor character and low intellect and integrity.

Yep. You put it beautifully... if only he could hear you.

I work in the juvenile justice system here in Dayton, and agreen/gizzle preaches the exact mindset that creates recidivism. These kids don't learn from their mistakes. They believe the end justifies the means. They believe that they are entitled to the same kinds of things rich people have, but shouldn't have to work for it. I've heard every sob story in the book. Dead parents. Locked up parents. Abusive parents. Gang influence. All of it.

I've learned one thing in my 6 years in this field. If you even try to have compassion on one of these kids and understand where they are coming from... you can expect them back in jail within weeks. But if you give them no slack and accept no excuses... the same kid will eventually see that he is better than that. That doing things the right way has value, even if the payoff is slower than the lying/cheating/stealing route.

Everyone wants an easier situation. It's human nature. The problem with Chad wasn't that he wanted to play somewhere else. It was his entitlement mentality that it was owed to him. He believed himself to be better than his teammates. Even with this belief, he failed. Because rather trying to elevate the play of his lesser talented teammates, he saw that it would require hard work without immediate payoff. So he did what most thugs and criminals do... he quit. He took the easy way out.

And as long as there are people like agreen out there that will stroke his ego and make excuses for his behavior, you can expect the same pattern of behavior to continue. Sure... things look good now. The team is 5-2 and Chad's happy. But what happens if the team goes on a losing streak... or if Carson Palmer gets hurt again in a playoff game? We already know what happens. It's the same story, he's the same guy. He's mentally weak. And based on his postings, I'd have to say that agreen is as well. But it would take years to unteach that mentality... so it's probably best to save your breath.

[TJJackson]

Chad tanked last year

Take a deep breath, moron

You've taken the first step, you've admitted it happened

Now...dont start regressing and say stuff like he "may" have tanked, or he "allegedly" tanked, or "might" have tanked

Next step is to admit that a player should never tank

I doubt you can do it, but there it is.

If you want a chance to be considered to be smarter than a box of rocks, thats the next step

Otherwise, you remain as always dumber than a box of rocks

God damnit TJ weren't you tired of all the losing

We all are.

The owners looked REALLY bad.

There is one owner. I call him Son-of-a-Genius, mostly because he has demonstrated himself to be highly intelligent in the collection of money he doesn't earn but is otherwise not much smarter than you. The apple fell quite far - miles and miles - from the tree. And yes, he looked bad, but no suprise there - thats true for him EVERY year.

Marv looked really bad.

Marvin played the hand he was dealt, and his hand sucked

He had (has) an owner who cripples him, as was so well illustrated in the coaches meeting scenes on Hard Knocks

He also had - follow this line closely - players who not only gave up on the team, but who did everything in their power to spread dissent in this organization. One of the worst offenders being your bed buddy, Ocho Quitto.

He also had the grave misfortune of being in a division that includes two teams who have during his term frequently gone deep in the playoffs the Ravens and the Steelers, but - well, no one said it'd be easy

He had bad luck with several high round picks - Two Carry Perry, Odell Thurman, David Pollack, Kenny Irons, Ahmad Brooks - all high picks who were lost to off the field incidents and/or injures. Hugely bad luck.

This complete organization looked bad.

It still does, when you consider the body of work and dont simply isolate 2005 and this year (so far)

Not once did Chad disrespect the franchise.

Another blatant falsehood.

He disrespected the franchise dozens upon dozens of times, at every given opportunity, loudly and frequently.

He also did so by inaction, failing to ready himself for the season in another dozen or two ways.

In any normal organization, he is backballed til the end of time. In the NFL....well, we all know the rest.

He simply said we're not doing what we need to do to be winners. He wanted out. MB forced him to stay. MB paid some good players to come in. MB drafted some really good players. MB did more in this offseason than he has done since he brought in Marv and No. 9.

Whether he got "Chad's" message or not is irrelevant. He (MB) got the message.

MB does not get messages. He doesn't 'get' anything, except for a lot of stolen taxpayer money.

Now we're winning and Chad is having a great season. Things worked out...

...But you still HATE

Yeah, that 'argument' is always available to you.

I make points, your response: you're a hater.

My return response: You're a f*cking idiot loser who like Ocho Quitto is a crying child in an adults body, and also like Ocho Quitto is too much of a quivering coward to face reality and take responsibility ffor your own actions

There you go.

[gregstephens]

Man, a few of you folks, on either side of this, really need to form some sort of support group.

Chad may have "tanked" the season. Whatever. That's not the point.

I'm happy Chad "tanked" the season. If that's what you want to call it.

You just gave us a lecture about how football is played on the Palmer thread, saying you play your best players. Then you throw this very contradictory little gem out there???

And no, that's not what I want to call it. That's what he has admitted it was.

Chad was in the game.. Yes, you play your best players Greg.

I think your taking the "tank" out of context. It was more of a statement. It they don't care about winning, then I won't do my part either.

Dude, there's only one context for 'tank' in the sports world.

Let's 'realtime' this discussion. You've said you coach pee-wee football. Ok, your star nine-year old receiver doesn't like how you coach, maybe you guys lose a lot of games, so he trash talks you to the other kids and any parent that will listen. He demands you let him play for another team. He tanks his season by playing horribly, blowing routes, not blocking, dropping passes.

You not only think that's ok, PLUS you keep playing him because he's your best player???

NOBODY else on this board, Fredo fans or not, are buying the extremity of your argument.

[agreen_112]

Man, a few of you folks, on either side of this, really need to form some sort of support group.

Chad may have "tanked" the season. Whatever. That's not the point.

I'm happy Chad "tanked" the season. If that's what you want to call it.

You just gave us a lecture about how football is played on the Palmer thread, saying you play your best players. Then you throw this very contradictory little gem out there???

And no, that's not what I want to call it. That's what he has admitted it was.

Chad was in the game.. Yes, you play your best players Greg.

I think your taking the "tank" out of context. It was more of a statement. It they don't care about winning, then I won't do my part either.

Dude, there's only one context for 'tank' in the sports world.

Let's 'realtime' this discussion. You've said you coach pee-wee football. Ok, your star nine-year old receiver doesn't like how you coach, maybe you guys lose a lot of games, so he trash talks you to the other kids and any parent that will listen. He demands you let him play for another team. He tanks his season by playing horribly, blowing routes, not blocking, dropping passes.

You not only think that's ok, PLUS you keep playing him because he's your best player???

NOBODY else on this board, Fredo fans or not, are buying the extremity of your argument.

That's your problem right there.. Stop at the boldface. When did Chad trash-talk anyone?

I ref peewee.. I play semi-pro.

I'll be at Finnetown tomorrow morning if anyone wants to stop by and meet me after the game and call me a bitch to my face. I'd love to see that happen.. Not you Greg, someone else mentioned me being a biotch.

Better yet, stop by the bookstore after 2 and let 85 know how you feel.

[derekshank]

Man, a few of you folks, on either side of this, really need to form some sort of support group.

Chad may have "tanked" the season. Whatever. That's not the point.

I'm happy Chad "tanked" the season. If that's what you want to call it.

You just gave us a lecture about how football is played on the Palmer thread, saying you play your best players. Then you throw this very contradictory little gem out there???

And no, that's not what I want to call it. That's what he has admitted it was.

Chad was in the game.. Yes, you play your best players Greg.

I think your taking the "tank" out of context. It was more of a statement. It they don't care about winning, then I won't do my part either.

Dude, there's only one context for 'tank' in the sports world.

Let's 'realtime' this discussion. You've said you coach pee-wee football. Ok, your star nine-year old receiver doesn't like how you coach, maybe you guys lose a lot of games, so he trash talks you to the other kids and any parent that will listen. He demands you let him play for another team. He tanks his season by playing horribly, blowing routes, not blocking, dropping passes.

You not only think that's ok, PLUS you keep playing him because he's your best player???

NOBODY else on this board, Fredo fans or not, are buying the extremity of your argument.

That's your problem right there.. Stop at the boldface. When did Chad trash-talk anyone?

Really?

How about the million or so interviews he did when holding out?

How about the book he just released?

Ok... I answered your question. How about you answer the question posed to you?

[agreen_112]

All you gotta do is give Chad the ball. The ball is his core. Without it, he's nothing.

Yeah, other players, amazingly enough, find useful things to do when they DON'T have the ball. You know, there's this thing called 'blocking', as one example of many, or running down defenders who intercept the ball and tackling them. Maybe your bed buddy Chad could do some of that, eh?

From coach...

GH: Laveranues always goes all out. Always blocks. Do you think that’s a reason Chad Ochocinco is blocking more?

ML: I think the competitive spirit of Chad is winning out. He wants to be right, he wants to be competitive and he wants to play. If you’re not going to block and do the things you need to be a complete player, then we’ve got other guys that will and can.

GH: How do you think he’s blocking this year?

ML: Better. A lot better. He’s working at it. He’s trying and that’s all we need to ask. He doesn’t have to knock anybody down. He just has to tie them up.

[agreen_112]

Ok... I answered your question. How about you answer the question posed to you?

Quote something..

[gregstephens]

Man, a few of you folks, on either side of this, really need to form some sort of support group.

Chad may have "tanked" the season. Whatever. That's not the point.

I'm happy Chad "tanked" the season. If that's what you want to call it.

You just gave us a lecture about how football is played on the Palmer thread, saying you play your best players. Then you throw this very contradictory little gem out there???

And no, that's not what I want to call it. That's what he has admitted it was.

Chad was in the game.. Yes, you play your best players Greg.

I think your taking the "tank" out of context. It was more of a statement. It they don't care about winning, then I won't do my part either.

Dude, there's only one context for 'tank' in the sports world.

Let's 'realtime' this discussion. You've said you coach pee-wee football. Ok, your star nine-year old receiver doesn't like how you coach, maybe you guys lose a lot of games, so he trash talks you to the other kids and any parent that will listen. He demands you let him play for another team. He tanks his season by playing horribly, blowing routes, not blocking, dropping passes.

You not only think that's ok, PLUS you keep playing him because he's your best player???

NOBODY else on this board, Fredo fans or not, are buying the extremity of your argument.

That's your problem right there.. Stop at the boldface. When did Chad trash-talk anyone?

Really?

How about the million or so interviews he did when holding out?

How about the book he just released?

Ok... I answered your question. How about you answer the question posed to you?

Yeah, gee, if he didn't trash talk the team, how did ANY of us suspect he was unhappy with the team?

Isn't he the one that tried to send messages to other teams through other players to try to trade for him? Oakland, Miami. Did I dream-sequence all that?

[agreen_112]

Yes.

Here's one...

"I want to continue my career wherever I have the opportunity to win a playoff game and get to the Super Bowl. That's where I want to be," he said.

[gregstephens]

Ok... I answered your question. How about you answer the question posed to you?

Quote something..

Oh well let's see. How about yesterday on his media tour where he acknowledges writing about the freeze out conspiracy theory and STILL standing by that? How about Douchemandzadeh stating that even THIS off-season Fredo was literally calling him and crying about not being able to get out of Cincy?

And wait for the deluge of other examples, because they will be rolling in.

[agreen_112]

Ok... I answered your question. How about you answer the question posed to you?

Quote something..

Oh well let's see. How about yesterday on his media tour where he acknowledges writing about the freeze out conspiracy theory and STILL standing by that? How about Douchemandzadeh stating that even THIS off-season Fredo was literally calling him and crying about not being able to get out of Cincy?

And wait for the deluge of other examples, because they will be rolling in.

You said trash-talking... When has Chad ever trash talked the Bengals?

He hasn't... He wanted to win. I can't believe we're arguing about this.

[gregstephens]

Yes.

Here's one...

"I want to continue my career wherever I have the opportunity to win a playoff game and get to the Super Bowl. That's where I want to be," he said.

So he tried to court OAKLAND and MIAMI after the 2007 season when both teams sucked???

[derekshank]

I'll be at Finnetown tomorrow morning if anyone wants to stop by and meet me after the game and call me a bitch to my face. I'd love to see that happen.

Thanks for illustrating my point that you do in fact have the mentality of a thug/criminal.