I see the dilemma on offense

[walzav29]

On 1 hand the Bengals want to establish the run in the division, and listening to NFL Radio they say that run blocking and being a running team is a mindset. They refer to the Steelers losing their identity, but Palmer is at his best in the hurry up situation. Palmer is a rhythm passer. I would like to see them attack more and be more aggressive, but they won't become a great running team if they do the hurry up. This offense needs to get in sync and WHERE IS HENRY?

[Pidge]

Problem is we're neither. They ran what, half a dozen, run plays the entire 2nd half. No sign of the hurry up offense either.

The offense is still largely stinking the joint up. Has to be addressed.

[membengal]

Here's the thing, I was going to start a new thread, but will try and adapt the thought to fit this post.

The formula for winning that was operable through five games became inoperable halfway through the first quarter when Peko and then Odom went out. That formula was:

1. Stout defense anchored by a front four that was getting steady pressure by itself.

2. Keep games close by minimizing mistakes on offense and running the ball.

3. Win late.

Fair enough as formulas go, harrowing, but it was working.

But without Odom? And with Peko potentially gone for a few weeks? I am highly concerned over what that impact on the line will have on the overall defense. As we saw previewed yesterday, against good offenses, the answer seesm to be "nothing good".

So if the defense part of the formula just took a hit, then the formula has to change. That would be part two. The offense cannot take whole quarters off "finding" itself. They need to get rid of mistakes, catch the ball when they have a chance, and finish drives. They need to, in short, score more points, and look kinda like the offense that shows up in the two minute drills. I have no idea how they do that, but getting to around 20 points and hoping that is enough is not going to work consistently on a team that just lost a guy like Odom was playing.

If this season is to be what a bunch of you hoped (me too, altho at a 7-9 prediction for the year, I am pretty sanguine with 4-2 and 3-0 in the division at this point), then the offense has to meet this challenge.

[Pidge]

To point #2 mem, I agree with the running bit but the minimizing mistakes? If that was them being cautious then Lord help us.

As for the rest, I am in complete agreement. The defensive scheme was solid and all the players looked like they bought into it completely. Helped, no doubt, by the fact that it produced tangible results. Now, obviously that went out thr window with both injuries and yeah, they took a beating. A bad day at the office. What encouraged me about the D, amongst all the 20+ yd gashes and fluffed tackles was the effort. The attitude was still there and they even came up with a potentially crucial TO when needed. Naturally that was wasted with yet another pitiful 3 & out by the offense. The spirit was willing though.

I hope they can find a way to plug some holes, even bringing in guys for a look see. But if the D does have a drop in production or execution, even a minimal rate of decline then with the current play of the offense - color me teary eyed.

The offense has to pick up some of the slack. No excuses now, they aren't going to keep getting bailed out by the D. They'll have to become an integral part of the team and not just spectators, or fifth columnists even, for 3+ Qs like they have been so far.

[kingwilly]

Problem is we're neither. They ran what, half a dozen, run plays the entire 2nd half. No sign of the hurry up offense either.

The offense is still largely stinking the joint up. Has to be addressed.

4.

They ran 4 running plays in the second half.

Thanks, Brat, for taking away one of the best offensive weapons the Bengals have. Way to assist Houston in making the offense one-dimensional.

It is baffling. To the extent that they HAD to throw, that too is simply untrue. Only within 4 minutes to go, down two scores, did they really need to throw.

I saw a complete reversion to the 2007 offense, when they had no confidence in Rudi.

Also, Houston played well on D, causing fumbles and making plays. The secondary was victimized by Chad and Andre often.

It seriously would have been nice to see Scott work a bubble screen or take a few handoffs.

I realize Brat won't be fired but there must be some accountability. If anything, the deep passes should have made running the ball easier.

[walzav29]

I can't understand why they can't figure out a way to utilize B. Scott.

[Pidge]

Wow, even fewer than I thought king. 4? I was thinking around 7 or 8. 4 goddam run plays in 30 minutes.

28 pts given up is crap for sure. But that meant we had to score two TDs in the second half against a good but not great D. Doable right?

We had 6 possesions in the second half. They went as follows - Fumble, Punt, Punt, Punt, Fumble, Interception.

13 possessions in total and 2 TDs to show for it. TBF, they did well to cash in with a FG on the interception just before the half but unimpressive to say the least.

[agreen_112]

On 1 hand the Bengals want to establish the run in the division, and listening to NFL Radio they say that run blocking and being a running team is a mindset. They refer to the Steelers losing their identity, but Palmer is at his best in the hurry up situation. Palmer is a rhythm passer. I would like to see them attack more and be more aggressive, but they won't become a great running team if they do the hurry up. This offense needs to get in sync and WHERE IS HENRY?

If we're a running team then they might as well trade either Henry or 85. There's no need for them in a running offense... Do you know what Manning and the Colts would do with Henry, Coles, Caldwell, and OchoCinco? Do you think they would be running the ball?

This crap drives me nuts.. Get off of Benson's ball sack everyone, he's not that great. We're a freaking passing team.

We have the same identity which is what identity?? There isn't one. In '05, we had an identity.

God I miss Odell more and more every season. 58 hasn't done much to make me forget about him. Neither has 55.

[volcom69]

On 1 hand the Bengals want to establish the run in the division, and listening to NFL Radio they say that run blocking and being a running team is a mindset. They refer to the Steelers losing their identity, but Palmer is at his best in the hurry up situation. Palmer is a rhythm passer. I would like to see them attack more and be more aggressive, but they won't become a great running team if they do the hurry up. This offense needs to get in sync and WHERE IS HENRY?

If we're a running team then they might as well trade either Henry or 85. There's no need for them in a running offense... Do you know what Manning and the Colts would do with Henry, Coles, Caldwell, and OchoCinco? Do you think they would be running the ball?

This crap drives me nuts.. Get off of Benson's ball sack everyone, he's not that great. We're a freaking passing team.

We have the same identity which is what identity?? There isn't one. In '05, we had an identity.

God I miss Odell more and more every season. 58 hasn't done much to make me forget about him. Neither has 55.

HMMMMMMM yea Benson not that great, im not sure if you watch him run or not, but he looks great if they give him a chance, not give him 4 runs in the second half. Watch Benson run for once then tell me he is not that great.

This team has no rythem to it, and until they figure out what kind of a offense team they want they will continue to struggle. Dont forget look at the drops they had Caldwell had 3, Coats had 3 and other drops as well. Right now this offense is not good until they get into the 2 minute drill other then that not that great.

[Pidge]

God I miss Odell more and more every season. 58 hasn't done much to make me forget about him. Neither has 55.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Apart from them not being alcies and whatnot. Maybe if Keith headbutted a nun you'd appreciate his play a little more.

[agreen_112]

On 1 hand the Bengals want to establish the run in the division, and listening to NFL Radio they say that run blocking and being a running team is a mindset. They refer to the Steelers losing their identity, but Palmer is at his best in the hurry up situation. Palmer is a rhythm passer. I would like to see them attack more and be more aggressive, but they won't become a great running team if they do the hurry up. This offense needs to get in sync and WHERE IS HENRY?

If we're a running team then they might as well trade either Henry or 85. There's no need for them in a running offense... Do you know what Manning and the Colts would do with Henry, Coles, Caldwell, and OchoCinco? Do you think they would be running the ball?

This crap drives me nuts.. Get off of Benson's ball sack everyone, he's not that great. We're a freaking passing team.

We have the same identity which is what identity?? There isn't one. In '05, we had an identity.

God I miss Odell more and more every season. 58 hasn't done much to make me forget about him. Neither has 55.

HMMMMMMM yea Benson not that great, im not sure if you watch him run or not, but he looks great if they give him a chance, not give him 4 runs in the second half. Watch Benson run for once then tell me he is not that great.

This team has no rythem to it, and until they figure out what kind of a offense team they want they will continue to struggle. Dont forget look at the drops they had Caldwell had 3, Coats had 3 and other drops as well. Right now this offense is not good until they get into the 2 minute drill other then that not that great.

I'm not saying he sucks. I like Benson. His line gets most of the credit from me. It's a change from what we're used to seeing. Benson is an average running back. He's not AP, Tomlinson, Ronnie Brown, or your other top dogs. Again he's a solid average back..

My point is that we have 85, Coles, Caldwell and Henry! We have Palmer who should be a top 5 QB. Would you say we're a running team?

[agreen_112]

God I miss Odell more and more every season. 58 hasn't done much to make me forget about him. Neither has 55.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Apart from them not being alcies and whatnot. Maybe if Keith headbutted a nun you'd appreciate his play a little more.

55 and 58 < Odell.. That's it. Hopefully that will change. I miss Odell's presense. It's a shame. These guys got their asses handed to them by a team that can't run the ball. Don't tell me it's because Peko and Oeom were both out because Odell never had a great line either. 58 get's taken out of a LOT of plays.

[Pidge]

Whatever helps you get through the night.

[kingwilly]

I'm not saying he sucks. I like Benson. His line gets most of the credit from me. It's a change from what we're used to seeing. Benson is an average running back. He's not AP, Tomlinson, Ronnie Brown, or your other top dogs. Again he's a solid average back..

My point is that we have 85, Coles, Caldwell and Henry! We have Palmer who should be a top 5 QB. Would you say we're a running team?

First off, Minnesota and San Diego are passing teams.

Second, Tomlinson is broken. Benson is a better back now than LT has been for the last couple of years.

Benson is far better than Ronnie Brown, as a pure runner. Brown's effectiveness is bolstered by having Ricky Williams and running the Wildcat.

Also, oranges are better than apples.

Buddy, you say dolt-ish things. don't be surprised at the reaction you get when you do.

This team *needs* to run the ball. When they do, and do it well, they win. When they get into shootout's, like in the past against Indy, SD, Cleveland, they've never had the D to "finish", and lose.

Run the ball. Benson is a workhorse. Workhorses are pointless when they don't work. Feed him the ball and keep the opposing D on the field. Reduce the chances for an oppsosing O to make big plays against a Bengals D that still gives them up too easily. Feed him the ball to reduce the need to throw to guys who drop passes or who fumble after the catch.

Run to Pass #'s

v DEN 19-37 - Loss (the fluke tip)

v GB 34-23 - WIN

v PIT 19-37 - WIN

v CLE 30-44 - WIN

v BAL 34-31 - WIN

v HOU 17-35 - Loss (4 rushes in second half)

Now, penalties play a large role in what happens. The play that is called is probably change once a penaltiy is enforced, due to down/distance changes. So, this is not an absolute.

It is clear the Bengals MUST run the ball to have a cance to win. Against Houston, the drops/fumbles were the single largest problem that steered them from running the ball, and, in my opinion, contibuted mightily to the loss. With Leonard out, and Scott being idled, ment the load was on Benson. For some unknown reason they decided to use the NFL leading rusher as a decoy, making them one-dimensional and allowing them to focus on stopping the pass, which they did. Houston wins.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Easy to say "run the ball" but when you're down by 2 scores in the 2nd half, and your RB has had 8 carries for 14 yards after scoring his TD, and couldn't get going all day long, it's just not going to happen.

TE's/WR's have to catch the ball, Whitworth has to quit doubling-up on penalties every damn week, guys have to run block, not get man-handled like they did yesterday (Coats was a culprit again there).

They have not scored more than 24 points in 9 of Carson's last 10 starts, as people are starting to point out. 14-16 a game is not enough. Your D isn't going to score every week for you.

The offense is still a problem from last year, it hasn't changed much, and they didn't do enough to fix it or upgrade the 0-line.

Nothing they can do without Odom, Peko, Williams and Tank not on the field, on defense - not sure if any of those guys are coming back soon (outside of Odom missing most of another year).

LB's have to step up and make tackles, they were terrible yesterday, all 4 of them that played.

There isn't a single cover safety on this roster, with Crocker being their best, and he's not very good at it ultimately...Ndukwe practically gave up an early TD drive by himself, with mistakes in coverage, not sure he has the ability to be relied on in that role.

It's a talent problem still, they are not there yet. I hope they turn it around and make it an interesting year, but that game yesterday was highly discouraging. I can't help but feel that way, sorry.

[COB]

God I miss Odell more and more every season. 58 hasn't done much to make me forget about him. Neither has 55.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Apart from them not being alcies and whatnot. Maybe if Keith headbutted a nun you'd appreciate his play a little more.

"Heh heh. Hey now, what was that?" - various nuns

[jjakq27]

I'm not saying he sucks. I like Benson. His line gets most of the credit from me. It's a change from what we're used to seeing. Benson is an average running back. He's not AP, Tomlinson, Ronnie Brown, or your other top dogs. Again he's a solid average back..

My point is that we have 85, Coles, Caldwell and Henry! We have Palmer who should be a top 5 QB. Would you say we're a running team?

First off, Minnesota and San Diego are passing teams.

Second, Tomlinson is broken. Benson is a better back now than LT has been for the last couple of years.

Benson is far better than Ronnie Brown, as a pure runner. Brown's effectiveness is bolstered by having Ricky Williams and running the Wildcat.

Also, oranges are better than apples.

Buddy, you say dolt-ish things. don't be surprised at the reaction you get when you do.

This team *needs* to run the ball. When they do, and do it well, they win. When they get into shootout's, like in the past against Indy, SD, Cleveland, they've never had the D to "finish", and lose.

Run the ball. Benson is a workhorse. Workhorses are pointless when they don't work. Feed him the ball and keep the opposing D on the field. Reduce the chances for an oppsosing O to make big plays against a Bengals D that still gives them up too easily. Feed him the ball to reduce the need to throw to guys who drop passes or who fumble after the catch.

Run to Pass #'s

v DEN 19-37 - Loss (the fluke tip)

v GB 34-23 - WIN

v PIT 19-37 - WIN

v CLE 30-44 - WIN

v BAL 34-31 - WIN

v HOU 17-35 - Loss (4 rushes in second half)

Now, penalties play a large role in what happens. The play that is called is probably change once a penaltiy is enforced, due to down/distance changes. So, this is not an absolute.

It is clear the Bengals MUST run the ball to have a cance to win. Against Houston, the drops/fumbles were the single largest problem that steered them from running the ball, and, in my opinion, contibuted mightily to the loss. With Leonard out, and Scott being idled, ment the load was on Benson. For some unknown reason they decided to use the NFL leading rusher as a decoy, making them one-dimensional and allowing them to focus on stopping the pass, which they did. Houston wins.

Friggin' AMEN to that, brother!!!!!

[HairOnFire]

They ran 4 running plays in the second half.

Thanks, Brat, for taking away one of the best offensive weapons the Bengals have. Way to assist Houston in making the offense one-dimensional.

I see where you're going with this, and I'm with you. In fact, let me attack from another direction.

First Quarter. Opening drive. Bengals moving the ball nicely. Third and short.

Q - What's the call?

A - Bengals take a shot deep to Chad, of course....because they can't help themselves.

[HairOnFire]

The offense is still largely stinking the joint up. Has to be addressed.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the offense. Granted, they're still mistake prone but Palmer seems to be shaking the rust off, and until lately he's been holding them back as much as anyone has. If he returns to form the timing should begin to improve, if it hasn't already. Best, Palmer is starting to show the pocket awareness and mobility he's lacked of late.

Nutshelled, I think the base Bengal offense is still screaming for the practice reps Palmer didn't get in preseason, and that base package won't improve much until everyone developes the same level of timing they have in their 2-minute package....which never changes from week to week.

[BengalByTheBay]

Best, Palmer is starting to show the pocket awareness and mobility he's lacked of late.

BINGO - I have noticed this, albeit inconsistently, the past 3 weeks or so. He looks more comfortable stepping up into protection and, to that extent, the o-line is performing. Can't stand that Whit keeps getting caught holding. I just don't get it, it's like he's gotten more calls than the past 3 years combined. All in all, Palmer is really looking to be rounding into shape and the biggest problem now appears to be dropped balls. Pretty much 85 and 87 are the only ones that can be counted on to hold onto the freaking ball. Come on Coles, Come on TE's -- damn!! This offense should be cooking at this point.

[SupaBran]

I agree with what most of you guys are saying! This friggin O is terrible mostly b/c of an identity crisis! We have the personnel of a passing team, not a dominant running team! I don't care what division or conference your in, you can be whatever team you ultimately want to be, depending on how the players play and the coaches coach! You think if the Colts or Patriots switched divisions with us, they would start running more? NO, they wouldn't! In the words of my man Dennis Green, we are who we thought we were! My problem is Brat, which puts it on Marvin as well for not firing this douche! I'm tired of other teams dictating what we do. Peyton dictates what he's going to do, not the other way around!

I would like to see what this D looks like with a good offense, but they're still not that good! You can say they played bad yesterday b/c of the injuries and I'm sure that factored in late but Houston played with much more fire and want to from the opening kickoff! Our D was getting schooled b4 they got hurt!

I'm getting so sick of our Offense playing like s**t and then after the game saying they don't know why they're not clicking and have to look at the tape! B.S. maybe this offense just sucks and its something you have to deal with!

[HoosierCat]

I agree with what most of you guys are saying! This friggin O is terrible mostly b/c of an identity crisis!

No, that's not the problem.

The trouble isn't the offensive philosophy, it's simply a lack of execution. The team commits too many penalties, drops and fumbles regardless of whether it's running or passing.

The only cure is time and reps.

[SupaBran]

I agree with what most of you guys are saying! This friggin O is terrible mostly b/c of an identity crisis!

No, that's not the problem.

The trouble isn't the offensive philosophy, it's simply a lack of execution. The team commits too many penalties, drops and fumbles regardless of whether it's running or passing.

The only cure is time and reps.

Gimme a break! Then we need to trade Carson for Kyle Orton if we are going to be "managing" games! Let him throw it! I could of sworn we went to the playoffs in 05' being a passing team and if it weren't for the Squeelers and their game planning for Carson's knee, we had a good chance to win the Super Bowl!

[HoosierCat]

I agree with what most of you guys are saying! This friggin O is terrible mostly b/c of an identity crisis!

No, that's not the problem.

The trouble isn't the offensive philosophy, it's simply a lack of execution. The team commits too many penalties, drops and fumbles regardless of whether it's running or passing.

The only cure is time and reps.

Gimme a break! Then we need to trade Carson for Kyle Orton if we are going to be "managing" games! Let him throw it! I could of sworn we went to the playoffs in 05' being a passing team and if it weren't for the Squeelers and their game planning for Carson's knee, we had a good chance to win the Super Bowl!

"Let him throw it?" Palmer's got more than 200 attempts on the year, versus about 140 rushing attempts by Benson, Scott and Leonard.

The problem isn't that they aren't throwing the ball enough, the problem is that aren't catching it, or holding on to it, when they do.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

On 1 hand the Bengals want to establish the run in the division, and listening to NFL Radio they say that run blocking and being a running team is a mindset. They refer to the Steelers losing their identity, but Palmer is at his best in the hurry up situation. Palmer is a rhythm passer. I would like to see them attack more and be more aggressive, but they won't become a great running team if they do the hurry up. This offense needs to get in sync and WHERE IS HENRY?

If we're a running team then they might as well trade either Henry or 85. There's no need for them in a running offense... Do you know what Manning and the Colts would do with Henry, Coles, Caldwell, and OchoCinco? Do you think they would be running the ball?

Well, they had Harrison, Wayne, and Stokely, and they still pounded the rock with Edge James on the stretch play. The bread and butter play for the Colts during much of their "triplets" days was that stretch play with a HoF running back.

So the answer to your question is yes, in fact, they would. And if a team with Manning, Harrison, and Wayne still committed to the run, that should say something.