Draft Conversation

[SupaBran]

See now, if the decision was left up to me, his name would be scratched off the list already. Having been involved in a similarly physical game and played that game to a reasonable level, I understand that emotions boil over. I've even swung a couple of times myself. Not my proudest moment but we shook hands after the game and I sheepishly apologised and we went for a beer or two with rest of the teams. Gouging is just a taboo I'm afraid and it most definitely does not belong in the same conversation as emotions getting the better of you. Gouging is designed to injure, that's its only intent and is a calculated move with malice involved. It is far from an emotional, heat of the moment action. The last gouger I saw, yr ago now in my late teens, was actually set upon by his own team mates when they realised what he was doing.

Now, that is not say to say he doesn't deserve all the glories and riches coming his way in pro football. He's a hell of a talent and has put in yrs of hard work and dedication and I wish him the best but I hope it isn't with the Bengals.

This incident doesn't speak about his qualities as a football player to me, it speaks about his qualities as a person. That is no doubt hyperbole and might be unfair but that's what his actions, and his actions alone, showed me. It's just how I feel.

It is your opinion and you are entitled to it but I'll just say that Spikes is a leader and often gets under the skin of opposing players. I love Rivers but Spikes is a much bigger play maker. Rivers is a solid guy that every team needs but I don't think he will ever be the game changing play making linebacker that Spikes is. I'll take a thug over 2 choir boys everyday of the week.

[SupaBran]

Stuff like that happens on the bottom of the pile all the time and everybody is acting like that Georgia guy is innocent in all this

Supa, no doubt he's far from the first player in football to do this but it happens all the time? I don't agree with that. You'd see far more eye injuries for a start and players would do something about it.

A team mate lost most of his vision in one eye after being gouged. The guy who did it had never been in trouble before. That comforted my friend greatly.

Pidge, I don't want to keep arguing about this, but why do you think everyone wears a visor nowadays?

[Pidge]

I'll take a thug over 2 choir boys everyday of the week.

Aha! I knew it! You are trying to be the new Miami.

Not on my watch buddy. I'm flying over to Liberty City pronto to do some recruiting for Randy.

[Pidge]

Stuff like that happens on the bottom of the pile all the time and everybody is acting like that Georgia guy is innocent in all this

Supa, no doubt he's far from the first player in football to do this but it happens all the time? I don't agree with that. You'd see far more eye injuries for a start and players would do something about it.

A team mate lost most of his vision in one eye after being gouged. The guy who did it had never been in trouble before. That comforted my friend greatly.

Pidge, I don't want to keep arguing about this, but why do you think everyone wears a visor nowadays?

I admire your tenacity in defending Spikes but even you know that's a straw man. I'll tell you this, if that is the only punishment and the guy who tried to gouge Whit last yr got nothing from the nuffle, I won't be at all surprised to see this becoming more of the norm. It's up to the relevant authorities to clamp down on this. If they don't then they'll find themselves in court facing charges as many rugby authorities have done in yrs past. They have a responsibility to the players.

Just ask yourself this, would you feel the same way if a Georgia player did that to a Florida player?

[SupaBran]

Good question. I would be mad, obviously but I honestly wouldn't expect much more punishment than Spikes got, IMO. You said it yourself. It happened last year to Whit when Henderson tried gouge his eyes. And what happened? They both got ejected and they both got fined the exact same amount. It wasn't fair justice but that's what happens in football. It is what it is.

I will fight for Spikes. He has earned that with 4 years of leadership and top notch play with no incidents. I will say, at first I didn't see what you guys were talking about until halfway through our arguments and once I saw it, I agreed with you guys that it was dirty and uncalled for and there's no place for that. My argument is simply that it happens and he has no history and shouldn't be labeled b/c of one thing.

Btw, don't you ever say we're trying to be the new Miami!

[Pidge]

Well, if we somehow end up with Spikes in the draft, I'll gladly welcome his play. Being a hypocrite is handy like that. It'll take a while for me to view him differently though.

The NFL is gonna have a hell of a headache in the future because gouging does injure and seriously. When their luck runs out and a guy does come up clutching his eye screaming, well the US courts in particular are known for incredibly stiff settlements. Good luck with an image like this splashed across sportcenter.

Warning, this image contains a Welshman and an eye gouge.

[SupaBran]

Ewww...man that is vicious!

I agree, they should've been more severe with Henderson last year and I might've been more shocked by Spikes this year but how am I supposed to take something serious if commissioners don't. If don't care, neither do I.

[Kazkal]

double

[Kazkal]

The Oregon coach had some balls b/c they are not going to win a Championship!

That's because they don't have a fixed Schedule like the Gators and actually play tuff teams,Tell me a top 6 team that has beat a top 10 ranked team? O Oregon has done it twice.

Not to be a stick in the mud, but I wouldn't mind seeing a better option to Mathis and Livings as well. Then again, I could be way off in the way the coaches view him. Sort of like thinking we needed to take a Center in the first two rounds this year while all along the coaches knew they had Cook sitting and waiting for his chance to shine and we put off drafting the position until the 4th round. If that's the case, sure, then I'm happy, but I won't be convinced of it until that point in time comes.

You can always improve the team but for me it's we have more important positions we could upgrade in the 1st 4 rounds,Can we find better guard then Mathis? No Doubt but do you feel he's weak enough where it's problem we need to address this year? More so since he would be very cap friendly contract...(Though Rookie would be more cap friendly but there the whole unproven thing)...Wouldn't complain though getting project guy who replaces livings "shrug"

I love Spikes and would take him in a heartbeat. Whines Hard is the dirtiest player but Stealer fans love him! He's not a dirty player. He's done one thing in his whole career and he's already labeled a dirty player? That's redikulus! Haynesworth did one thing and hasn't done anything since. You have to have a history IMO to be labeled a dirty player.

Yes he goes for the big hits most o the t imes within the rules,But it's not something that is purely aimed to injure the player he's so dirty yet I've never seen him Eye Gouge,Face Stomp or do anything that would land him in Jail...Hines to me is like Roys Horse Collars yes it could hurt the playesr but once it became a penalty he stopped doing it and now the only time it get's done is a playing out of desperation to stop a touchdown... but the goal isn't to Injure ...Was it Stroud or Henderson who gouged Whit? Did you not care when that happened even though he was trying to strip whitworth of his vision?

[SupaBran]

Can you read Kazkal? B/c we already discussed the Whit thing last year. If you could read you would've saw it was Henderson. And the fact you asked if it was Stroud when he was traded to the Bills 2 years ago shows me you don't know much about football anyways and I shouldn't be arguing with you.

P.S. The SEC is the best in college football and so don't act like we always have an easy schedule. The Gators are the best team in college football and a dynasty of the decade. We beat LSU in Baton Rouge at night when they were #4 in the nation and when we beat Alabama and then Texas, it will finally shut you up! Hopefully. And you are really trying to talked to me about Oregon? USC blows and they lost to Boise St., enough said!

[Pidge]

Quite aggressive there Supa.

Eh, SEC is one of the top. Not so sure it's always the toughest yr on yr. The names of the colleges don't change but the teams sure do. A lot of hype. Not to say winning it is easy at all but it isn't always the Herculean effort it's made out to be in the media.

Props to Florida too - definitely been the most consistent team over the last few yrs. I can see you equalling our title haul in the next decade. Maybe you could put in a word with the AD to get Miami back on your schedule? We've already said we'd accept a home-home series both at the swamp. You can even ban our obnoxious fans. He hasn't got back to us yet though.

[BlainThePain]

You prob. already know but Urban Meyer suspended Spikes for the first half of our next game. I still support him but I just can't defend that. Its not an excuse but Urban said Spikes got caught up in emotions and reacted to getting poked in the eye earlier in the game. Meyer said he's not that kind of player and he's better than something like that.

I still would love to have him in stripes doing that to a Stealer!

Wow, what a strict punishment. 1 whole half a game. p***y coach, cant make himself punish a deserving player for more than half a game. If it was a scrub what do you think the punishment would have been?

At least the Oregan coach had some balls and made the kid sit for most of the season and show he was committed to playing the game the correct way.

Thugs like this should not get the opportunity to play the game. They take it for granted and will not learn anything from this.

Count me in the camp as not wanting a dirty player like this in the draft.

The "bucks" in your name is really shining right now.

[Kazkal]

Can you read Kazkal? B/c we already discussed the Whit thing last year. If you could read you would've saw it was Henderson. And the fact you asked if it was Stroud when he was traded to the Bills 2 years ago shows me you don't know much about football anyways and I shouldn't be arguing with you.

Yes but I had written that before I saw the part of the thread when you guys were talking about Whitworth,If you could read you would have saw my quote and that it was before the whitworth discussion

[SupaBran]

Alright Kazkal, truce? Come on, were better than this, after all this isn't a Stealers board!

I've never been to the Smack board but I imagine its not much different. We both said some things we didn't mean.

[SupaBran]

Quite aggressive there Supa.

Eh, SEC is one of the top. Not so sure it's always the toughest yr on yr. The names of the colleges don't change but the teams sure do. A lot of hype. Not to say winning it is easy at all but it isn't always the Herculean effort it's made out to be in the media.

Props to Florida too - definitely been the most consistent team over the last few yrs. I can see you equalling our title haul in the next decade. Maybe you could put in a word with the AD to get Miami back on your schedule? We've already said we'd accept a home-home series both at the swamp. You can even ban our obnoxious fans. He hasn't got back to us yet though.

I know and I apologize Pidge

Who is better than the SEC? The only one that could make an argument is the ACC this year but can you name the last 3 National Champions?

Thanks for the props. And I'd love to beat you guys every year just like we did last year!

[Pidge]

The ACC - nup. Too many inconsistent teams but a couple of gooduns. I freely admit the SEC teams have had the edge over the past few yrs in the big game but as a conference in its entirety it gets too much credit, imo. There are some really sad sack teams in there to go along with the tradition powerhouses.

I give it the edge over the PAC10, Big10 and Big12 as they've put up and made the others shut up in recent yrs but the difference in quality really isn't as large as the perception seems to be.

/shakes fist at last comment

[ArmyBengal]

Not to be a stick in the mud, but I wouldn't mind seeing a better option to Mathis and Livings as well. Then again, I could be way off in the way the coaches view him. Sort of like thinking we needed to take a Center in the first two rounds this year while all along the coaches knew they had Cook sitting and waiting for his chance to shine and we put off drafting the position until the 4th round. If that's the case, sure, then I'm happy, but I won't be convinced of it until that point in time comes.

You can always improve the team but for me it's we have more important positions we could upgrade in the 1st 4 rounds,Can we find better guard then Mathis? No Doubt but do you feel he's weak enough where it's problem we need to address this year? More so since he would be very cap friendly contract...(Though Rookie would be more cap friendly but there the whole unproven thing)...Wouldn't complain though getting project guy who replaces livings "shrug"

I'm not really concerned about them finding that better option for Mathis in the first 4 rounds this year. I AM concerned about them finding a better option than an aging Bobbie Williams this year, but if they feel Williams is still good enough to extend another year or so, then I still say they need to draft Guard early. He may be a better option than Mathis starting off or if not, he's depth until Williams leaves. Honestly though, once we get to the 4th round, there are a handful of options and to say we take 2 o-linemen in the first 4 rounds wouldn't surprise me. I can't say as that would be my first option, simply saying it wouldn't surprise me.

[Pidge]

Plus, these nice shiny starters and decent backup is a lovely thought. Just a couple of injuries and you're in the s**t big time. I'll repeat, you can not, under any circumstances, be stocked up enough on the lines. If they rarely see the light of day and leave after their rookie contracts, so be it. Draft a decent one each yr and the revolving door will still see you have fresh blood.

[Kazkal]

I AM concerned about them finding a better option than an aging Bobbie Williams this yea

Agreed,Was saying that last year that more likely we'll draft a Right Guard in the top half to repalce Bobbie...I like Shirlys Upside but I feel much safer having highly rated RG and would be fine with us even burning very late (wink wink) 1st on one...Right Guard & Strong side linebackers to me are the biggest needs because we're losing starters at those positions unless we resign some people...Which I wouldn't mind resigning Brandon and I'm sure he wouldn't mind returning if he was a starter vs a nickle backer.

[Kazkal]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-spikes110209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Eye-gouging is considered such a foul, filthy act that it’s banned by even our most blatantly combative exercises, including mixed martial arts and pro wrestling.

Wait Pro Wrestling? lol

There is almost no excuse for Spikes’ conduct. None. It was a dirty play and one with serious ramifications. There’s a reason violently poking your fingers at someone’s eye is a zero tolerance offense.The other guy can go blind. He has no ability to protect himself.

Sounds about right.

UF athletic director Jeremy Foley or SEC commissioner Mike Slive should’ve stepped in and issued a real suspension.

You would think but I guess they wanna make sure Gators stay 1#

fortune and support though. A large proportion of Gator fans wouldn’t care if Ealey’s eye had been damaged. It’s like that with every college team.

\whistles I <3 you Bran

For too many fans it’s just about winning games. They’ll pretend Meyer is doing it the right way whether he is or not. They’ll justify Spikes’ act and the light penalty somehow.

\doesn't stop whistling

[SupaBran]

You are very correct. I wouldn't suspend him for a lengthy period of time...maybe the Vandy game but that's it. You're also right in the fact that we're not going to suspend one of our best players when we're going to win another Championship. While I didn't like it, I don't care what happens to Ealey's eyes. Just like I don't care if anything happens to Whines Hard's eyes. I'm a Gator fan and that's just how I feel. And just for the record, I thought Oregon was extremely excessive with their punishment of Blount. I was thinking maybe a game or two.

[redsbengalsbucks]

You prob. already know but Urban Meyer suspended Spikes for the first half of our next game. I still support him but I just can't defend that. Its not an excuse but Urban said Spikes got caught up in emotions and reacted to getting poked in the eye earlier in the game. Meyer said he's not that kind of player and he's better than something like that.

I still would love to have him in stripes doing that to a Stealer!

Wow, what a strict punishment. 1 whole half a game. p***y coach, cant make himself punish a deserving player for more than half a game. If it was a scrub what do you think the punishment would have been?

At least the Oregan coach had some balls and made the kid sit for most of the season and show he was committed to playing the game the correct way.

Thugs like this should not get the opportunity to play the game. They take it for granted and will not learn anything from this.

Count me in the camp as not wanting a dirty player like this in the draft.

The "bucks" in your name is really shining right now.

I point out that a PAC 10 coach has the balls to put his #1 RB on the bench for a punch and a SEC coach has no balls and lets one of his star D players eye gouge with only a slap on the wrist 1/2 game suspension. That makes the Bucks in my name stand out?

Dirty players should be punished more than they are and if the action they take on the feild could lead to life long damage to an opposing player they should be done for the year, no matter the team they play for!!!

It makes me shudder to think that some fans here actually are OK with actions like this in a GAME. I guess Tyson really didnt do anything wrong when he bit Holyfeld's ear off?

[ArmyBengal]

Do I like what Spikes did ?? No

Do I think the punishment fit the crime ?? No

However, I think it rather holier than thou to sit here and judge fans by saying how bad they are for not caring about what happens to whathisnames eyes. Honestly, without going back to read, I don't even know who he is. I think that's the way it is for the most part and people here getting worked up about it is questionable at best. Why ?? Because they are the same people that advocate Rivers blasting away at Hines Ward without thought, the same ones who had pretty harsh words for Kimo blowing up Carson, and the same ones that have admitted to having parties when they hear about Mike Brown's death.

They can blow that stuff off by making jokes, but for the most part they are dead serious. So my question becomes, what makes this any different ?? Can anyone here honestly say they really do care about dude's eyes ?? Can anyone say they even put thought to it when not reading about it on this board ?? I doubt it.

Once again, it doesn't make what happened right and I'm certainly not justifying Spikes in any way, shape, or form, but don't be thinking fans are some sort of ultra caring group of people when it comes to their opponents across the field from their beloved team. Yeah, you can KEEP me in the camp that thinks Spikes would be a nice addition to our LB corps.

Sorry if that offends. On second thought, no I'm not...

[Pidge]

Do I like what Spikes did ?? No

Do I think the punishment fit the crime ?? No

However, I think it rather holier than thou to sit here and judge fans by saying how bad they are for not caring about what happens to whathisnames eyes. Honestly, without going back to read, I don't even know who he is. I think that's the way it is for the most part and people here getting worked up about it is questionable at best. Why ?? Because they are the same people that advocate Rivers blasting away at Hines Ward without thought, the same ones who had pretty harsh words for Kimo blowing up Carson, and the same ones that have admitted to having parties when they hear about Mike Brown's death.

They can blow that stuff off by making jokes, but for the most part they are dead serious. So my question becomes, what makes this any different ?? Can anyone here honestly say they really do care about dude's eyes ?? Can anyone say they even put thought to it when not reading about it on this board ?? I doubt it.

Once again, it doesn't make what happened right and I'm certainly not justifying Spikes in any way, shape, or form, but don't be thinking fans are some sort of ultra caring group of people when it comes to their opponents across the field from their beloved team. Yeah, you can KEEP me in the camp that thinks Spikes would be a nice addition to our LB corps.

Sorry if that offends. On second thought, no I'm not...

As for Spikes, I wish him all the best in life with or without the Bengals but he was still a c-u-n-t for doing it.

[Pidge]

While I didn't like it, I don't care what happens to Ealey's eyes.

Not being funny Supa, but if you don't care then why didn't you like it? There's a disconnect there.