Andre Smith Signs !!!

[volcom69]

Damn, looking at the contract details almost makes me think that maybe the Bengals Front Office know's what it's doing....

Nah...Can't be that....

They waited way to long for this, its a great deal but i cant understand why any of this couldnt be done awhile ago. Im just glad he is here and we can forget all this bull crap and just start playing games

[Baraka]

this news makes me happy.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I'm hopeful he shows up in good shape. I can't tell from that picture with Chad if he's in shape or not, because I don't know what he looks like well enough.

True...

...hard to tell.

[Sea Ray]

They waited way to long for this, its a great deal but i cant understand why any of this couldnt be done awhile ago. Im just glad he is here and we can forget all this bull crap and just start playing games

It's apparent that this sort of deal could have been done weeks ago if Smith was willing. He didn't gain much by holding out. He got a four year contract worth $26 million, maybe. I can't think of another top ten pick to have gotten so little in recent memory. Heyward-Bey got a 5 yr/ $58mill deal. Gholston got $50mill a year ago.

I hate that he missed so much training camp but when it comes out that he could have signed this deal long ago then the blame for the holdout lies with Smith and Keels.

[Sea Ray]

This was reported a little over a week ago:

The Bengals left Georgetown College on Tuesday without Andre Smith signed. Wednesday will mark Day 20 that Smith has unsigned, equaling David Pollack’s 2005 absence.

According to those familiar with the negotiations, the Bengals last offer to Smith was five years at the base at $28 million and a maximum of $33 million. That’s lower than what the Jets’ Vernon Gholston received last year as the sixth pick (base of $32.5 million) and way lower than what Oakland’s Darrius Heyward-Bey received as this year’s seventh pick (base of $38.25 million).

/>http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2009/08/18/bengals-smith-way-way-apart/

So they went from a 5 yr deal worth $33mill to a 4 yr deal worth $26mill, plus the Bengals have the option to extend him two more years.

Tell me, what did Andre Smith gain by holding out?

[Pidge]

I'm hopeful he shows up in good shape. I can't tell from that picture with Chad if he's in shape or not, because I don't know what he looks like well enough.

True...

...hard to tell.

Well now, he looks flat out of shape. Sure, he's a fat guy who does the pushing on the line and so he'll be portly but look at his forearm and hand. He's as soft and pudgy as the Pillsbury doughboy. I mean, who the hell has fat hands? Good luck to a doc trying to find a vein on him. He's as in shape as that fat kid doing a happy dance in that gif that was floating round the internetz a couple of yrs back. He won't make agame until at least 6 weeks from now, imo - if only to give him time to get in some sort of shape, never mind getting reps on the practice field and coming up to speed in addition.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

They waited way to long for this, its a great deal but i cant understand why any of this couldnt be done awhile ago. Im just glad he is here and we can forget all this bull crap and just start playing games

It's apparent that this sort of deal could have been done weeks ago if Smith was willing. He didn't gain much by holding out. He got a four year contract worth $26 million, maybe. I can't think of another top ten pick to have gotten so little in recent memory. Heyward-Bey got a 5 yr/ $58mill deal. Gholston got $50mill a year ago.

I hate that he missed so much training camp but when it comes out that he could have signed this deal long ago then the blame for the holdout lies with Smith and Keels.

Every single other player would've held out as well. So I am not sure why you are trying to blame Smith and Keels.

[Bearcat1975]

They waited way to long for this, its a great deal but i cant understand why any of this couldnt be done awhile ago. Im just glad he is here and we can forget all this bull crap and just start playing games

It's apparent that this sort of deal could have been done weeks ago if Smith was willing. He didn't gain much by holding out. He got a four year contract worth $26 million, maybe. I can't think of another top ten pick to have gotten so little in recent memory. Heyward-Bey got a 5 yr/ $58mill deal. Gholston got $50mill a year ago.

I hate that he missed so much training camp but when it comes out that he could have signed this deal long ago then the blame for the holdout lies with Smith and Keels.

Every single other player would've held out as well. So I am not sure why you are trying to blame Smith and Keels.

Exactly.

Mike Brown has a certain amount of salary cap money that he is planning on pocketing. Brown had no intention of letting anything interfere with that, not even the slotting system that the other 31 teams use. If it meant that Smith would sit out all year, then Brown still wins because under that scenario there would be even more unspent cap money for Brown to profit.

Somehow that is Smith and his agents' fault though.

We will be fielding a team on opening day that is not as complete as it could have been. And its because Mike Brown needed to make sure his "cut" from the cap was set aside, at all costs.

Anyone who doesn't believe this, follow the cap spending. Brown was good about it until last season. Now he is back to his 1990's cap shaving ways. He would have let Smith sit all season over it.

[COB]

They waited way to long for this, its a great deal but i cant understand why any of this couldnt be done awhile ago. Im just glad he is here and we can forget all this bull crap and just start playing games

It's apparent that this sort of deal could have been done weeks ago if Smith was willing. He didn't gain much by holding out. He got a four year contract worth $26 million, maybe. I can't think of another top ten pick to have gotten so little in recent memory. Heyward-Bey got a 5 yr/ $58mill deal. Gholston got $50mill a year ago.

I hate that he missed so much training camp but when it comes out that he could have signed this deal long ago then the blame for the holdout lies with Smith and Keels.

Every single other player would've held out as well. So I am not sure why you are trying to blame Smith and Keels.

Exactly.

Mike Brown has a certain amount of salary cap money that he is planning on pocketing. Brown had no intention of letting anything interfere with that, not even the slotting system that the other 31 teams use. If it meant that Smith would sit out all year, then Brown still wins because under that scenario there would be even more unspent cap money for Brown to profit.

Somehow that is Smith and his agents' fault though.

We will be fielding a team on opening day that is not as complete as it could have been. And its because Mike Brown needed to make sure his "cut" from the cap was set aside, at all costs.

Anyone who doesn't believe this, follow the cap spending. Brown was good about it until last season. Now he is back to his 1990's cap shaving ways. He would have let Smith sit all season over it.

Incredible. Your hatred for Mike Brown supercedes anything the Bengals do or accomplish.

[Clackwoods]

They waited way to long for this, its a great deal but i cant understand why any of this couldnt be done awhile ago. Im just glad he is here and we can forget all this bull crap and just start playing games

It's apparent that this sort of deal could have been done weeks ago if Smith was willing. He didn't gain much by holding out. He got a four year contract worth $26 million, maybe. I can't think of another top ten pick to have gotten so little in recent memory. Heyward-Bey got a 5 yr/ $58mill deal. Gholston got $50mill a year ago.

I hate that he missed so much training camp but when it comes out that he could have signed this deal long ago then the blame for the holdout lies with Smith and Keels.

Every single other player would've held out as well. So I am not sure why you are trying to blame Smith and Keels.

Exactly.

Mike Brown has a certain amount of salary cap money that he is planning on pocketing. Brown had no intention of letting anything interfere with that, not even the slotting system that the other 31 teams use. If it meant that Smith would sit out all year, then Brown still wins because under that scenario there would be even more unspent cap money for Brown to profit.

Somehow that is Smith and his agents' fault though.

We will be fielding a team on opening day that is not as complete as it could have been. And its because Mike Brown needed to make sure his "cut" from the cap was set aside, at all costs.

Anyone who doesn't believe this, follow the cap spending. Brown was good about it until last season. Now he is back to his 1990's cap shaving ways. He would have let Smith sit all season over it.

Personally I think we got a damn good deal for Smith. We signed him on the cheap. We locked up a franchise tackle for six years. That is the majority of Carsons career.

[HAPPYJAQ]

I agree that it's not a bad contract.

The Bengals are done with him by 2012, if he's bustin' or only average (ala Justin Smith), or they get control of him for 6 seasons if he turns out to be the player that they obviously think he can be.

Although you really can't look at it that way, I like to think of it as the Bengals got three 1st round draft picks this year, and Andre is #3 behind Keith Rivers and Rey. If he turns out to be great, it's a bonus, and if not the Bengals should be able to count of three difference makers at the top of the last two drafts in Rivers, Rey and MJ.

[Ickey44]

They waited way to long for this, its a great deal but i cant understand why any of this couldnt be done awhile ago. Im just glad he is here and we can forget all this bull crap and just start playing games

It's apparent that this sort of deal could have been done weeks ago if Smith was willing. He didn't gain much by holding out. He got a four year contract worth $26 million, maybe. I can't think of another top ten pick to have gotten so little in recent memory. Heyward-Bey got a 5 yr/ $58mill deal. Gholston got $50mill a year ago.

I hate that he missed so much training camp but when it comes out that he could have signed this deal long ago then the blame for the holdout lies with Smith and Keels.

Every single other player would've held out as well. So I am not sure why you are trying to blame Smith and Keels.

Exactly.

Mike Brown has a certain amount of salary cap money that he is planning on pocketing. Brown had no intention of letting anything interfere with that, not even the slotting system that the other 31 teams use. If it meant that Smith would sit out all year, then Brown still wins because under that scenario there would be even more unspent cap money for Brown to profit.

Somehow that is Smith and his agents' fault though.

We will be fielding a team on opening day that is not as complete as it could have been. And its because Mike Brown needed to make sure his "cut" from the cap was set aside, at all costs.

Anyone who doesn't believe this, follow the cap spending. Brown was good about it until last season. Now he is back to his 1990's cap shaving ways. He would have let Smith sit all season over it.

Incredible. Your hatred for Mike Brown supercedes anything the Bengals do or accomplish.

Yeah. He'll never admit that if Smith becomes an All-Pro player, that Mikey will give him a FAT contract just like he does with every other Bengal who performs well.

[Kazkal]

Oya my "Source" called the 4year contract hehehe

[Kazkal]

I'm hopeful he shows up in good shape. I can't tell from that picture with Chad if he's in shape or not, because I don't know what he looks like well enough.

True...

...hard to tell.

Not sure if it helps you gouge but from what I was told he was weighing between 340-345

It's apparent that this sort of deal could have been done weeks ago if Smith was willing.

Um He was Willing I said before Keels first visit that they were Offering the Browns a 4year deal that would be slightly less then DHB's..

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Although you really can't look at it that way, I like to think of it as the Bengals got three 1st round draft picks this year, and Andre is #3 behind Keith Rivers and Rey. If he turns out to be great, it's a bonus, and if not the Bengals should be able to count of three difference makers at the top of the last two drafts in Rivers, Rey and MJ.

That's actually a perfect way of looking at it, assuming Smith learns fast enough (or learned enough at OTAs) to play like a 1st rounder.

I continue to believe that, in about 3 months, fans of at least 20 teams are going to want to know why the hell their team didn't draft Rey Maulaluga. Third best LB on his college team, really? We're sure about that? I think he got so much publicity early that scouts had time to "fall out of love" with him for ridiculous reasons. Rey is absolutely a first-round quality pick.

So I like it. We have 3 1st round picks this year. This is good.

[Kazkal]

Some would Argue Rey was best LB on that team

I continue to believe that, in about 3 months, fans of at least 20 teams are going to want to know why the hell their team didn't draft Rey Maulaluga. Third best LB on his college team, really? We're sure about that? I think he got so much publicity early that scouts had time to "fall out of love" with him for ridiculous reasons. Rey is absolutely a first-round quality pick.

So I like it. We have 3 1st round picks this year. This is good.

Really was great Draft throw in Coffman & Huber \drool may not be 1st round steals but great value for where they were taken

[Sea Ray]

Exactly.

Mike Brown has a certain amount of salary cap money that he is planning on pocketing. Brown had no intention of letting anything interfere with that, not even the slotting system that the other 31 teams use. If it meant that Smith would sit out all year, then Brown still wins because under that scenario there would be even more unspent cap money for Brown to profit.

Somehow that is Smith and his agents' fault though.

We will be fielding a team on opening day that is not as complete as it could have been. And its because Mike Brown needed to make sure his "cut" from the cap was set aside, at all costs.

Anyone who doesn't believe this, follow the cap spending. Brown was good about it until last season. Now he is back to his 1990's cap shaving ways. He would have let Smith sit all season over it.

How 'bout answering my question, what did Smith accomplish by holding out?

[Clackwoods]

Some would Argue Rey was best LB on that team

I continue to believe that, in about 3 months, fans of at least 20 teams are going to want to know why the hell their team didn't draft Rey Maulaluga. Third best LB on his college team, really? We're sure about that? I think he got so much publicity early that scouts had time to "fall out of love" with him for ridiculous reasons. Rey is absolutely a first-round quality pick.

So I like it. We have 3 1st round picks this year. This is good.

Really was great Draft throw in Coffman & Huber \drool may not be 1st round steals but great value for where they were taken

Huber could lead the league in net punting average. He has been doing a pretty damn good job thus far!

[Kazkal]

Who was cut for Smith anyways?

[Ickey44]

Exactly.

Mike Brown has a certain amount of salary cap money that he is planning on pocketing. Brown had no intention of letting anything interfere with that, not even the slotting system that the other 31 teams use. If it meant that Smith would sit out all year, then Brown still wins because under that scenario there would be even more unspent cap money for Brown to profit.

Somehow that is Smith and his agents' fault though.

We will be fielding a team on opening day that is not as complete as it could have been. And its because Mike Brown needed to make sure his "cut" from the cap was set aside, at all costs.

Anyone who doesn't believe this, follow the cap spending. Brown was good about it until last season. Now he is back to his 1990's cap shaving ways. He would have let Smith sit all season over it.

How 'bout answering my question, what did Smith accomplish by holding out?

Please don't interrupt his Mike Brown bashing. It's all he knows how to do. Well, that and derail threads by turning every topic to Mike Brown.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Really was great Draft throw in Coffman & Huber \drool may not be 1st round steals but great value for where they were taken

And don't forget the team's latest Johnson.

Definitely the best draft I can remember for a while, at least back to 2003, anyway. With all the talent they have now, I really do think that the playoffs are likely if the OL holds. That's what's most galling to me about the holdout - the one thing they could really use for the playoff push was OL help, and Mikey couldn't let up on his legendary draft negotiation "tactics" just enough to get Smith in, say, within the first couple weeks of camp.

[COB]

It appears that it gives the Bengals the option to dump his ass after 4 years without much issue or hold onto him for an additional 2 years if in fact he produces.

Agents for first rounder fight for fewer years on a contract. They want to get to that second contract as quickly as possible.

So it is rather remarkable that the Bengals are locked to this guy for 4 years, then instead of watching him walk away to the highest bidder if he plays well, they get him for 2 more years at 8 million per.

And if he develops into the player his potential indicates he can be, 8 million a year for him will be a good price.

Didn't we just pay Stacy Andrews 8 million bucks last year? Andre Smith could be a lot better than Stacy.

[membengal]

Exactly, COB.

People are overlooking, to some extent, the two option years for the Bengals at the back of that contract. A huge win for Cincy.

I am failing to see what, exactly, Smith got in this. Or how to read this deal as anything other than a complete cave by Keels and Smith (not that they had much choice).

[ArmyBengal]

It appears that it gives the Bengals the option to dump his ass after 4 years without much issue or hold onto him for an additional 2 years if in fact he produces.

Agents for first rounder fight for fewer years on a contract. They want to get to that second contract as quickly as possible.

So it is rather remarkable that the Bengals are locked to this guy for 4 years, then instead of watching him walk away to the highest bidder if he plays well, they get him for 2 more years at 8 million per.

And if he develops into the player his potential indicates he can be, 8 million a year for him will be a good price.

Didn't we just pay Stacy Andrews 8 million bucks last year? Andre Smith could be a lot better than Stacy.

Yeah, I like it a lot and find it hard to believe this type of deal wasn't worked earlier. Put me in the camp that doesn't blame Keels or Smith on this fiasco though.

In regards to first round draft picks this year, I agree with DC on Michael Johnson having the talent to take that number to 4 as opposed to 3. M. Johnson has been getting a ton of reps at varied postions and doing well at all from what I've seen. I will really enjoy seeing him come around the edge and swatting balls out of the QB's hands with the wing span he has.

I just want to see them put it all together...

[ArmyBengal]

This is from PFT in regards to the contract:

This should be interesting to revisit in a few years to see where he stands, but I think if he performs well, the Browns will compensate accordingly. If not, they will have him at a very good rate. Future holdout possible if they don't agree how things are going ??

THE BENGALS AVOID THE SLOT WITH SMITH'S DEAL

With the Bengals refusing to do a slotted deal for the sixth overall pick in the 2009 draft, tackle Andre Smith and agent Alvin Keels tried their best to cover up the fact that they failed to fit the contract between the deals given to Mark Sanchez and No. 5 and Darrius Heyward-Bey at No. 7 by successfully obtaining a shorter deal.

Per the Cincinnati Enquirer, Smith signed a four-year deal with $21 million guaranteed and a maximum value of $26 million.

But it really isn't a shorter deal. As one league source said, "Every six-year deal is a four-year deal with a club option for the last two years."

If the Bengals choose to pick up the last two years, the contract will have a base value of $42 million and a maximum package of $50 million. Per ESPN, Smith would pick up another $8.5 million guaranteed for the extra two years.

So how does Smith's deal measure up to the slot? The three bases for the comparison of first-round contracts are the guaranteed money, the base value, and the maximum package.

Sanchez's guarantee (including one-time "log" incentive) is $28 million. Heyward-Bey's is $23.5 million. Smith falls south of both at $21 million. (That said, his average guaranteed money per year is $5.25 million, which fits in the gap between Sanchez and Heyward-Bey.)

Then again, a league source tells us that Smith will make $21.5 million over the first three years, making the guaranteed money not that jaw-dropping.

Sanchez's base value is $47 million over five years (i.e., $9.4 million per year). Heyward-Bey's contract has a base value of $38.25 million. It's unclear whether the $26 million over four years is the base value or the maximum value of Smith's deal. If it's the base value, the $6.5 million annual average falls well below the average annual base value of Heyward-Bey's deal, which is $7.65 million.

Smith's guaranteed money matches the amount guaranteed a year ago to sixth overall pick Vernon Gholston on a five-year deal. The base value of Gholston's contract was $32.5 million, which matches the $6.5 million annual average Smith received.

So, basically, Smith got a six-year version of Gholston's deal. And the Bengals were able to avoid the slotting process, as they vowed to do.

Smith and Keels saved some face via the appereance of a four-year deal. But if Smith turns out to be a great player, it won't be a four-year deal -- it'll be a six-year deal and the two extra years that kick in four years from now will pale in comparison to the first two years of a long-term deal that Smith could have gotten on the open market.

And we're certain that this deal could have been done weeks ago, allowing Smith more of an opportunity to become a great player. In the end, Smith and Keels caved, and now Smith faces an uphill climb to fulfill his potential.

/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/30/the-bengals-avoid-the-slot-with-smiths-deal/#comments