Any chance Andre Smith is signed...ever?

[HoosierCat]

It's kind of funny - for months, I was worried about Keels being difficult to deal with, and it turns out Mike Brown makes him look completely reasonable. Crap like this is why big-time free agents NEVER sign with Cincinnati. You can't do business like this in such a small, heavily reported industry and not have it hurt you.

Ditto. I figured Keels would come in asking for the sun and the moon, yet apparently his side is the reasonable one in all this. Whoda thunk it, eh?

[COB]

Why does anyone here think Smith will just draw a line in the sand, and agree to sit out a year and go into next year's draft if he doesn't get more than the guy picked right after him?

If I were him, I'd sign for as much as I could get. 30 million or whatever Mike's offering, part of it guaranteed, is a lot better than nothing. And if I'm Andre I'd be wondering where I'd get picked next year. Teams weren't exactly thrilled with his combine performance. He's got to realize he might not even be a first rounder next year. Or he might be a 20th pick next year.

If I were Andre, the tipping point occurs right when my agent starts telling me to wait until next year's draft. That is the time I quit comparing Mike Brown's offer to what the Raiders paid the guy picked 7th, and I start comparing Mike Brown's offer to what I think next year's 25th pick will get (or wherever Andre thinks he'll get picked next year).

Get huge guaranteed money now, or stand up for a principle (slotting) that will NEVER EVER benefit you again, but will benefit the very guy whispering in your ear that you should stand up for that principle. And do it when doing so risks you many many millions of dollars? If I'm Andre I sign for as much as I can get.

[Kazkal]

Because he'd have taste of shet in his mouth from the shet sammwhich he just ate if he did that?

Why would he wanna lock himself up with a team for the next 5 years who didn't even offer him a fair deal?When 31 other teams had offered their pick a fair deal? I know most of us would be happy to take the money and sign but this is the nfl and this isn't how it works mike brown is trying to change system because it suits him too...why doesn't he spend the little bit extra on andre showing that he cares about giving this team the best chances of winning? by trying improve even if it's going to cost him more money?

[HoosierCat]

Because he'd have taste of shet in his mouth from the shet sammwhich he just ate if he did that?

Why would he wanna lock himself up with a team for the next 5 years who didn't even offer him a fair deal?When 31 other teams had offered their pick a fair deal? I know most of us would be happy to take the money and sign but this is the nfl and this isn't how it works mike brown is trying to change system because it suits him too...why doesn't he spend the little bit extra on andre showing that he cares about giving this team the best chances of winning? by trying improve even if it's going to cost him more money?

Let's even set that whole issue aside and assume that Andre signs for whatever Mikey is willing to give him.

Exactly how motivated is Smith at that point?

How much extra is he willing to put in?

Wouldn't he be more inclined to mail it in wherever possible? Why bust his butt for not just less than No. 7, but reportedly No. 8, who plays the same position?

COB, you say you deal with a lot of negotiations. Generally speaking, if you sign someone who believes he got a raw deal...is that a good idea? Does that produce the best result for your organization?

[COB]

COB, you say you deal with a lot of negotiations. Generally speaking, if you sign someone who believes he got a raw deal...is that a good idea? Does that produce the best result for your organization?

It's only a good idea if it's a commodity or a property right that's being negotiated. If you're negotiating a pipeline right of way, you just get it as cheaply as possible, you don't care about how much you offend the landowner. This situation is totally different, and you're point is a good one that I suspect is completely lost on Mike Brown. He's tone deaf when it comes to how his actions affect other people. He's negotiating a personal services contract but he acts like he's negotiating to buy truck loads of sand.

The Lumina is also a pretty good example of what we're talking about.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Why would he wanna lock himself up with a team for the next 5 years who didn't even offer him a fair deal?

Fair deal? The man is being offered substantial money. As far as I know more than any current OL on the team, yet he hasn't proven one ounce of worth in the NFL. Hasn't seen a single snap. Hasn't blocked nobody. Hasn't opened nary a hole for an RB to run through.

[COB]

Fair deal? The man is being offered substantial money.

Yep, and right about now he quits comparing that money to anything but what he thinks he might get offered next year. Let's face it, he'll drop and drop pretty far. Fat guy who's motivation was in question in the first place sits on the shelf and does nothing for a year? Who's going to make him a top ten pick? It's not like he's some kind of track and field wonder who can wow everybody with his 40 time and shuttle skills. The guy's just a football player, which strangely enough will work against him in this instance.

[HoosierCat]

COB, you say you deal with a lot of negotiations. Generally speaking, if you sign someone who believes he got a raw deal...is that a good idea? Does that produce the best result for your organization?

It's only a good idea if it's a commodity or a property right that's being negotiated. If you're negotiating a pipeline right of way, you just get it as cheaply as possible, you don't care about how much you offend the landowner. This situation is totally different, and you're point is a good one that I suspect is completely lost on Mike Brown. He's tone deaf when it comes to how his actions affect other people. He's negotiating a personal services contract but he acts like he's negotiating to buy truck loads of sand.

The Lumina is also a pretty good example of what we're talking about.

I couldn't agree more.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

It's not like he's some kind of track and field wonder who can wow everybody with his 40 time and shuttle skills. The guy's just a football player, which strangely enough will work against him in this instance.

I would sort of argue that in the reverse - he did so little to prepare for the last combine, I'll give you odds that his "in shorts" measurables are a lot better next year. Doesn't have those pesky classes at Alabama to get in the way (OK, almost said that with a straight face), and he won't make the same mistakes again.

Still, I could see this playing out - everybody knows what he looks like on the field. Great player. No doubts there. Would have been #1 overall if he wasn't a flake. So in the coming year, the man receives an education in the business of football thanks to Mike "Shylock" Brown. His 40 is better. He drops a couple of cup sizes. He learns how to interview. He's a whole lot wiser thanks to this process. And teams don't hold it against him because they know it was Mikey, and Andre gets the same "free pass" Corey Dillon and company got when they left the Bengals. Add to that the media that will surround him being the first pick (who didn't play baseball) in a long time to re-enter the draft, and I really think he could still go high.

Then there's the fact that next year is the final year before the CBA is up - uncapped to boot, with agents looking to make it rain. So throw on another 20% bump. At that point, can you really say he makes less money? I bet he still goes top-10, especially if he works his ass off in the offseason, and that'll be enough to get him money about like this year's #6 - and he won't have to play for the team that tried to screw him. You could say he loses a year of salary, but does he? Seems to me linemen tend to wear out before getting old, so a year less wear and tear would prolong his career anyway.

Also remember this - if you think Andre Smith and Alvin Keels aren't getting a whole lot of calls from the NFLPA, you're crazy. There are a lot of other people with skin in this game, and they're going to pressure Andre not to accept a sub-market deal.

[Bearcat1975]

What's funny is, in regard to Smith's share this season, they are arguing over cap money that most likely at this point will not be spent anyway.

Mikey's hard stance is because he wants to pocket the unspent cap money this year. Its all about the nestegg for his kids. Anything else is secondary. If Keels doesn't cave ,he will sit all year long.

Think about it... if Smith goes unsigned this season, everyone will forget about the unspent cap money that was saved for him. Sure he could use that unspent cap money on frontloaded extensions/contract restructuring to free up cap money for future years... but c'mon. You all know the Mike Brown Scam by now.

Bare Minimum Resources - Record Profits

F'n Mike Brown.

[Kazkal]

Once again take it for grail salt but the guy I've been talking with said that today's offer was 4million then last years number 6...He said Dre doesn't even want to beat DHB but get close to him.

[Pidge]

So what are the actual chances he sits out and re-enters the draft next yr? Gotta be pretty slim right, I mean when was the last time it happened? However, n00b question - WTF happens if he does? Is our 1st round pick this yr just flushed down the s**tter for all eternity and we have basically lost it or do we get another pick in next yrs draft?

[Bearcat1975]

"We will go to war with what we have."

[Kazkal]

So what are the actual chances he sits out and re-enters the draft next yr? Gotta be pretty slim right, I mean when was the last time it happened? However, n00b question - WTF happens if he does? Is our 1st round pick this yr just flushed down the s**tter for all eternity and we have basically lost it or do we get another pick in next yrs draft?

He Remains a bengal until 1 week before draft or until draft day and selected by another team.

[Pidge]

So what are the actual chances he sits out and re-enters the draft next yr? Gotta be pretty slim right, I mean when was the last time it happened? However, n00b question - WTF happens if he does? Is our 1st round pick this yr just flushed down the s**tter for all eternity and we have basically lost it or do we get another pick in next yrs draft?

He Remains a bengal until 1 week before draft or until draft day and selected by another team.

OK, and if selected by another team, he's gone. That's it and our 2009 pick is a busted flush?

[BZBot]

Alvin Keels, the agent for rookie offensive tackle Andre Smith, twittered his meeting with the Bengals today regarding the contract of his player. Not good news. Leaving Cinci. Not any closer on a deal for Andre Smith. Mike Brown says “the ship has sailed on the slotting system”. With the current tackle not looking up [...] Source: http://www.bengalszone.com/?p=1057

[Kazkal]

So what are the actual chances he sits out and re-enters the draft next yr? Gotta be pretty slim right, I mean when was the last time it happened? However, n00b question - WTF happens if he does? Is our 1st round pick this yr just flushed down the s**tter for all eternity and we have basically lost it or do we get another pick in next yrs draft?

He Remains a bengal until 1 week before draft or until draft day and selected by another team.

OK, and if selected by another team, he's gone. That's it and our 2009 pick is a busted flush?

Indeed but we'll have a Morale victory because Mike Brown showed that he's not gonna take any gruff from 1st round picks!!!

[Bearcat1975]

So what are the actual chances he sits out and re-enters the draft next yr? Gotta be pretty slim right, I mean when was the last time it happened? However, n00b question - WTF happens if he does? Is our 1st round pick this yr just flushed down the s**tter for all eternity and we have basically lost it or do we get another pick in next yrs draft?

He Remains a bengal until 1 week before draft or until draft day and selected by another team.

OK, and if selected by another team, he's gone. That's it and our 2009 pick is a busted flush?

Indeed but we'll have a Morale victory because Mike Brown showed that he's not gonna take any gruff from 1st round picks!!!

And the only thing sadder than that are the people that will actually defend the "moral" (financial) victory.

Cincinnati Sports Fans... low expectations, open wallets.

"8-8 is waaay better than 4-12!!!"

[Kazkal]

So what are the actual chances he sits out and re-enters the draft next yr? Gotta be pretty slim right, I mean when was the last time it happened? However, n00b question - WTF happens if he does? Is our 1st round pick this yr just flushed down the s**tter for all eternity and we have basically lost it or do we get another pick in next yrs draft?

He Remains a bengal until 1 week before draft or until draft day and selected by another team.

OK, and if selected by another team, he's gone. That's it and our 2009 pick is a busted flush?

Indeed but we'll have a Morale victory because Mike Brown showed that he's not gonna take any gruff from 1st round picks!!!

And the only thing sadder than that are the people that will actually defend the "moral" (financial) victory.

Cincinnati Sports Fans... low expectations, open wallets.

Yup quite a few on Dotcom who act like Andre is the Devil and Praise Mike for putting a end to Rookie deals :|

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Yup quite a few on Dotcom who act like Andre is the Devil and Praise Mike for putting a end to Rookie deals :|

Yeah, well, your average idiot doesn't have a real firm grasp on economics. As I think you mentioned on PFT's comments page, negotiate this crap with the union via the CBA, don't take it out on a kid.

Bottom line is, if you didn't want to pay the kid, don't draft him. What Mikey's doing is kind of like going to a restaurant, ordering off the menu, eating your food, then negotiating when they bring you the bill.

[Stripes]

Has Mikey or Katie claimed the banner of Crusader Against Rookie Wealth, or is that a frustrated accusation from Bengaldom without realistic basis? I don't like the way negotiations have gone at all, and I do fault the Bengals for ignoring the slotting system made necessary by majority participation. I don't think anyone is trying to make a philosophical statement though.

[membengal]

I've said all along it would be to after pre-season game 3, and we are on target for that.

This drags past pre-season game 4, and I will finally raise my eyebrowns. At this point, it is simple posturing that should have happened weeks ago...

[Bearcat1975]

The Bengals’ last offer to Smith was five years at the base of $28 million with a maximum of $33 million. That’s lower than the contract for last year’s sixth pick, the Jets’ Vernon Gholston (base of $32.5 million) and this year’s seventh pick, Oakland’s Darrius Heyward-Bey (base of $38.25 million).

Unreal.

[ArmyBengal]

Anyone claiming Mike Brown is taking a stand where other owners won't is a F*CKING dumbass. No seriously, this won't be one of those times where people look back after a year and say, "Wow, he really knew what he was doing". It will be a point in time where he had the opportunity to make the team better, while protecting the one player they pay more than any other that in the past few years has had serious injury concerns. It just doesn't make sense. The Bengals don't have anyone to blame but themselves in regards to taking the wait and see approach only to get f*cked by a stupid Al Davis offering and a QB deal done on either side. I think someone else made mention of the fact the Bengals should have had more foresight in seeing that and been more proactive in getting his deal done.

Then not only that, you take the fact the team is doing the Hard Knocks thing and further proving why this team has been such a train wreck for what seems like forever. Thank God the Lions went 0-16 last year and minus a 12-4 record this year, will be the worst sports franchise for a decade replacing the Bengals.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not sitting here all pissed off at the world, rather I'm just disappointed the organization is failing (once again) to do something that will be to their benefit. They are probably still trying to figure out why there are season tickets and single game tickets still available and haven't sold out...

[ArmyBengal]

I was reading about how some of the players contracts have incentives tied to the player being named the Super Bowl MVP and I was thinking if the Bengals have tried to do something of that nature with Smith. Not necessarily the Super Bowl MVP, but something still challenging, but attainable. Call it the Pro Bowl or whatever, but I was jsut curious if something like that might help the process. You could make the contract look fairly large, but being aware that all the money involved may not actually be realized. Just talking about what I've seen...