What is it about Paul Alexander...

[skyline]

Where is all the hate coming from? He's coached some pretty good o-lines here in the past, hasn't he?

Is it the fact that our line struggled this season, and therefore he gets the heat, or do you have some solid football strategies and philosophies that he is somehow violating?

Sorry if this thread seems strange, but it seems like he's being bashed all over the place, and I'm curious as to why...

[Kazkal]

Where is all the hate coming from? He's coached some pretty good o-lines here in the past, hasn't he?

Is it the fact that our line struggled this season, and therefore he gets the heat, or do you have some solid football strategies and philosophies that he is somehow violating?

Sorry if this thread seems strange, but it seems like he's being bashed all over the place, and I'm curious as to why...

The only good line I can really recall being worthy of praise was the 2005 line that was built completely off day one picks...Seemed to me that our Oline started dropping off in 2006 when rich got hurt sure we didn't give up alot of sacks but Carson always seemed like he was in a hurry not getting time to throw.

Willie and Levi = 1st

Steinbach and Bobbie = 2nds

Rich Braham = 3rd

Where are all the late round projects? if he was a decent Oline coach we wouldn't have t0 burn top 10 picks on OT,Where most successful teams with good Olines can work with people who are taken day 2.

[Bearcat1975]

Add the Hayes brothers (DE and TE coaches) to the list of position coaches that I am baffled are still employed.

[cincy9275]

paul has been here since 94, and willie is the only o-line player to go to the probowl. that kinda speaks for it's self.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I concur with the thoughts/posts above on this. I don't see why Alexander continues to maintain his position here.

He has yet to develop a single non-first day pick into anything respectful as an NFL Starter in over 10 years and yet the loser Bengals' just keep him hanging around, and not a single other team has courted him for anything in all that time...which also speaks for itself.

Mike Goff is a good example of someone who had a pro bowl back behind him here (Dillon) and then went to SD where he blocked for LT and immediately become a Pro Bowler and was much more respected (he was very average at best here).

Of course the Bengals' didn't want to pay him as soon as his rookie contract ended just like every other guard or center they draft here on day one.

It's a joke and nothing new from the worst run organization in professional sports.

[Jet23]

Where is all the hate coming from? He's coached some pretty good o-lines here in the past, hasn't he?

Is it the fact that our line struggled this season, and therefore he gets the heat, or do you have some solid football strategies and philosophies that he is somehow violating?

Sorry if this thread seems strange, but it seems like he's being bashed all over the place, and I'm curious as to why...

Personally, I do not hate Paul Alexander. I simply do not understand how he continues to hold a job. I look at three areas: 1) Talent Evaluation 2) Player Development 3) Consistency. Alexander just happens to suck at all three.

Look at any starting NFL Offensive Line and you will find a mix of 1st through 7th rounders and even Undrafted Free Agents. Alexander has NEVER drafted and subsequently coached a decent Offensive Lineman after the first three rounds. The high round choices that we do land (Goff, Steinbach...) are allowed to leave in favor of projects or washed up players that can not do the job.

I also do not understand how his lines continue to regress, while maintaining the exact same personnel. You hear coaches speak of continuity being the key to good offensive lines. Well, in Cincinnati it appears to work the other way.

[HoosierCat]

Look at any starting NFL Offensive Line and you will find a mix of 1st through 7th rounders and even Undrafted Free Agents. Alexander has NEVER drafted and subsequently coached a decent Offensive Lineman after the first three rounds.

That's just not true, and hasn't been for years. The days of building a line from the bottom of the draft are long gone. Look at Baltimore. Everyone is a first or second round pick, except for Gaither, who they stole in the supplemental. But what does Ozzie Newsome know, wasting all those high picks on linemen? When you try to build a line out of 4th- 6th rounders, what do you end up with these days? Pittsburgh's crappy o-line, that's what.

If you look at the last three drafts, 46 offensive linemen went in the first three rounds. Go back 20 years to the 1986-88 drafts and that number is 23. It's a different era.

The high round choices that we do land (Goff, Steinbach...) are allowed to leave in favor of projects or washed up players that can not do the job.

And this is Alexander's fault how? He's not the one making decisions on who to re-sign.

I also do not understand how his lines continue to regress, while maintaining the exact same personnel. You hear coaches speak of continuity being the key to good offensive lines. Well, in Cincinnati it appears to work the other way.

Well, let's see. At left tackle, he has a player who refuses to participate in the offseason conditioning program and who has needed knee surgery every year for the past three years. His pro bowl right tackle was cut by the front office in a financial decision. His guards played fine, and when Whitworth and Levi both went out, backups Collins and Livings came in played solidly. They hardly appeared poorly coached, eh? Bluto was a miss, yes, and Stacy is a guard, not a tackle, but no one hits all the time.

[Walrus]

Look at any starting NFL Offensive Line and you will find a mix of 1st through 7th rounders and even Undrafted Free Agents. Alexander has NEVER drafted and subsequently coached a decent Offensive Lineman after the first three rounds.

That's just not true, and hasn't been for years. The days of building a line from the bottom of the draft are long gone. Look at Baltimore. Everyone is a first or second round pick, except for Gaither, who they stole in the supplemental. But what does Ozzie Newsome know, wasting all those high picks on linemen? When you try to build a line out of 4th- 6th rounders, what do you end up with these days? Pittsburgh's crappy o-line, that's what.

If you look at the last three drafts, 46 offensive linemen went in the first three rounds. Go back 20 years to the 1986-88 drafts and that number is 23. It's a different era.

Careful, Hoosier. It almost sounds like you're saying Mike Brown ISN'T still running the team like it'a 1968.

I'm kind of in the same boat as Skyline -- not sure why Paul Alexander gets so much flack from fans. Since 2000, we've drafted only 3 day two Olinemen -- Kooistra, who is quality depth, and then Bluto and Keift. That's it. The rest of the depth is made up of UFA's, who have actually performed well when called upon, as Joe points out.

EDIT: my bad, of course I forgot Santucci and Collins, who were day 2 picks! Santucci hasn't done much yet but it's hard to knock Collins' solid rookie year.

[COB]

Why do I hate Paul Alexander? I just don't like the cut of his jib.

[HairOnFire]

Why do I hate Paul Alexander? I just don't like the cut of his jib.

Well played, sir. Well played indeed.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Yet it's funny how Pitt's "crappy o-line" have a first round bye in the playoffs, and go routinely....("good enough" would be ok with me if they could develop guys and run their org properly)

The key is re-signing your lineman and keeping them - and as an "Assistant HC" I would assume you have some pull in the organization after 10 years.

Feel free to skip over the fact Goff was a better lineman in SD than he was here, that Andrews is really just a below average T, Whitworth and Levi have regressed, etc...,

This team WON'T draft Centers or Guards often, if at all, on day one, and therefore they need a coach who can develop interior lineman from day two, or at least scout them. I also don't see any former players saying how great it was to play for Alexander - never, once, have I heard that from any player here in all those years. (and certainly doesn't help keep guys at a lower cost - of course winning cures that).

I see none of that here - it's not so much that Alexander "sucks," so much as that he's not a good fit here at all and hasn't been, yet he keeps his job.

Also keep in mind Alexander has major input into blocking schemes and the offensive game plan and playbook - yet people just bang on Bratkowski.

Alexander is a step below Marvin and gets no heat at all - he very much deserves it.

[Kazkal]

Look at Baltimore. Everyone is a first or second round pick, except for Gaither,

Don't forget Jason Brown their center...Late 4th rounder and they use our rejects like willie....owait

[derekshank]

Yet it's funny how Pitt's "crappy o-line" have a first round bye in the playoffs, and go routinely....("good enough" would be ok with me if they could develop guys and run their org properly)

Pittsburgh has a first round bye because they have the #1 overall defense, #1 passing defense, #2 rushing defense, and #1 scoring defense. Not many arguments you can make for their o-line there.

Steelers football usually involves rushing the ball down peoples throat... yet the Steelers are the 23rd ranked rushing offense... but not for lack of trying as they are in the top 10 of rushing attempts, but 29th in yards/carry. And that O-Line allowed the 4th most sacks in the NFL this year with 49. Yep... they're awesome.

Whitworth and Levi have regressed...

I'm not a big Alexander backer. I don't really care if he goes or stays... but let's not forget that Levi and Whitworth's only O-line coach here has been Alexander all these years. This "regression" maybe, just maybe has more to do with injuries, as well as the players around them *cough* Ghiaciuc *cough*.

Levi was a pro bowler before his injuries became a yearly problem. He's done now... Too injury prone without the desire to overcome it. Whitworth is still quality... But I don't understand complaining about poor play from poor players (Ghiaciuc/Andrews) and act like it's the coaches fault. (See Steelers rant above) Draft some *** damn replacements!

[HoosierCat]

Yet it's funny how Pitt's "crappy o-line" have a first round bye in the playoffs, and go routinely....

Because of their D. Pitt gave up 49 sacks in 2008, 2 fewer than the Bengals, and were 29th in YPA rushing. Their D got them into the playoffs, but their crappy o-line is why they are unlikely to go all the way.

The key is re-signing your lineman and keeping them - and as an "Assistant HC" I would assume you have some pull in the organization after 10 years.

Yeah, you would hope. But you do remember who runs the show here, right?

Feel free to skip over the fact Goff was a better lineman in SD than he was here, that Andrews is really just a below average T, Whitworth and Levi have regressed, etc...,

Levi hasn't regressed, he's been hurt. Whit has been fine. Andrews is a guard, not a tackle, and if Brown was willing to pay guards we'd have several fewer problems on the line.

This team WON'T draft Centers or Guards often, if at all, on day one, and therefore they need a coach who can develop interior lineman from day two, or at least scout them.

So Alexander is a bad scout? Fine. He's supposed to be a coach, right? Whose fault is it if he's a bad scout? As for developing interior lineman from day 2, that happens less and less these days. Different era.

I see none of that here - it's not so much that Alexander "sucks," so much as that he's not a good fit here at all and hasn't been, yet he keeps his job.

Was he a bad fit in 2005? 2006?

Alexander is a step below Marvin and gets no heat at all - he very much deserves it.

No, no one has ever complained about Alexander before...don't know why sky even started this thread...

[gregstephens]

Yet it's funny how Pitt's "crappy o-line" have a first round bye in the playoffs, and go routinely....

Because of their D. Pitt gave up 49 sacks in 2008, 2 fewer than the Bengals, and were 29th in YPA rushing. Their D got them into the playoffs, but their crappy o-line is why they are unlikely to go all the way.

The key is re-signing your lineman and keeping them - and as an "Assistant HC" I would assume you have some pull in the organization after 10 years.

Yeah, you would hope. But you do remember who runs the show here, right?

Feel free to skip over the fact Goff was a better lineman in SD than he was here, that Andrews is really just a below average T, Whitworth and Levi have regressed, etc...,

Levi hasn't regressed, he's been hurt. Whit has been fine. Andrews is a guard, not a tackle, and if Brown was willing to pay guards we'd have several fewer problems on the line.

This team WON'T draft Centers or Guards often, if at all, on day one, and therefore they need a coach who can develop interior lineman from day two, or at least scout them.

So Alexander is a bad scout? Fine. He's supposed to be a coach, right? Whose fault is it if he's a bad scout? As for developing interior lineman from day 2, that happens less and less these days. Different era.

I see none of that here - it's not so much that Alexander "sucks," so much as that he's not a good fit here at all and hasn't been, yet he keeps his job.

Was he a bad fit in 2005? 2006?

Alexander is a step below Marvin and gets no heat at all - he very much deserves it.

No, no one has ever complained about Alexander before...don't know why sky even started this thread...

I will agree with all of the above except for your comment about Levi. God yes, he's regressed. Yes, he's been hurt, but he has also regressed. And it's not because he's forgotten how to play the game. He doesn't give a crap anymore. It's not like he lets defensive lineman past him like a matador oles the bull because he is struggling so much with a gimpy leg. He doesn't try anymore. You put Levi on one of probably twenty other teams in this league and he's a more than serviceable o-lineman. But he has seen the disintegration of the team's morale, the coach's power and the lockerroom chemistry and has bagged it.

And Paul Alexander can't do a thing about that...nor can anyone else.

[HoosierCat]

I will agree with all of the above except for your comment about Levi. God yes, he's regressed. Yes, he's been hurt, but he has also regressed. And it's not because he's forgotten how to play the game. He doesn't give a crap anymore.

Oh, I agree Levi has attitude problems in addition to injury ones. He's spent the last two offseasons doing his own thing, with his own people, and he's still limping around out there. Like you say, Alexander can't do anything about that. Maybe he is right to avoid the Bengals coaching and training staffs, but whatever else he is doing in their stead isn't working.

[Kazkal]

No, no one has ever complained about Alexander before...don't know why sky even started this thread...

[HairOnFire]

I will agree with all of the above except for your comment about Levi. God yes, he's regressed. Yes, he's been hurt, but he has also regressed. And it's not because he's forgotten how to play the game. He doesn't give a crap anymore. It's not like he lets defensive lineman past him like a matador oles the bull because he is struggling so much with a gimpy leg. He doesn't try anymore. You put Levi on one of probably twenty other teams in this league and he's a more than serviceable o-lineman. But he has seen the disintegration of the team's morale, the coach's power and the lockerroom chemistry and has bagged it.

And Paul Alexander can't do a thing about that...nor can anyone else.

The above post is so good I'm tempted to take back every horrible thing I've ever said about Greg.*

* Sadly, I fear a fresh start would only lead to fresh disappointment.

[Jet23]

Look at any starting NFL Offensive Line and you will find a mix of 1st through 7th rounders and even Undrafted Free Agents. Alexander has NEVER drafted and subsequently coached a decent Offensive Lineman after the first three rounds.

but no one hits all the time.

I'm not asking for all the time. I'm asking for ONCE! Hit one freaking time already. They had a decent line in 2005 with 2 Free Agents (he did not develop), 2 top 10 draft selections (yes, that's top 10 in the entire draft) and 1 first round talent that dropped in their laps to the 2nd round. Speaking of 2nd round, that must be his cutoff, because after that, he flat out sucks. Goff was good, but as was pointed out, better since he went to San Diego. Other 3rd rounders that I recall: Blackman - sucked, Payne - sucked, Tuten - sucked.

With such a dismal record, the entire staff should have to justify their employment. What has Paul Alexander done to justify his check? If I hear the injury excuse one more time, I swear I am going to ralph. EVERY NFL Team has injuries on the line. The good ones know how to adjust. Alexander has NO clue.

[HoosierCat]

I'm not asking for all the time. I'm asking for ONCE! Hit one freaking time already.

Well, let me repeat, he's supposed to be a coach, not a scout. You want to blame someone for bad o-line picks, blame the cheap-a$$ owner who won't pay for a scouting staff.

EVERY NFL Team has injuries on the line. The good ones know how to adjust. Alexander has NO clue.

Really? I thought Collins and Livings did just fine this year...

[Kazkal]

I'm not asking for all the time. I'm asking for ONCE! Hit one freaking time already.

Well, let me repeat, he's supposed to be a coach, not a scout. You want to blame someone for bad o-line picks, blame the cheap-a$$ owner who won't pay for a scouting staff.

EVERY NFL Team has injuries on the line. The good ones know how to adjust. Alexander has NO clue.

Really? I thought Collins and Livings did just fine this year...

I thought the coaching staff was part of our scouting staff, so really our scouting staff isn't that small >_<

[HoosierCat]

I thought the coaching staff was part of our scouting staff, so really our scouting staff isn't that small >_<

Exactly. And that's my point. I still remember players from the 90s telling stories about how, come Friday mornings, the coaching staff would disappear -- because they had to go scout college games -- and players wouldn't see them again until game time Sunday.

I don't hear a lot of complaints about Alexander's coaching. That his players exhibit bad technique, for example, or a poor understanding of their role in the offense.

Most of what I hear is instead related to talent evaluation and the draft -- scouting stuff. OK, fine, I will give you that Alexander has not shown himself to be a good scout. But that's not his fault. That's the fault of the guy up top who cheaps out on the scouting staff.

Give this team half a dozen more scouts, and let the coaches get back to coaching 100% of the time, and I'm willing to wager you will see improvements in both coaching and scouting.

[Jet23]

I thought the coaching staff was part of our scouting staff, so really our scouting staff isn't that small >_<

Exactly. And that's my point. I still remember players from the 90s telling stories about how, come Friday mornings, the coaching staff would disappear -- because they had to go scout college games -- and players wouldn't see them again until game time Sunday.

I don't hear a lot of complaints about Alexander's coaching. That his players exhibit bad technique, for example, or a poor understanding of their role in the offense.

Most of what I hear is instead related to talent evaluation and the draft -- scouting stuff. OK, fine, I will give you that Alexander has not shown himself to be a good scout. But that's not his fault. That's the fault of the guy up top who cheaps out on the scouting staff.

Give this team half a dozen more scouts, and let the coaches get back to coaching 100% of the time, and I'm willing to wager you will see improvements in both coaching and scouting.

Well, I'm certainly not going to defend Mike Brown, so I guess you got me there....... Of course it is a joke that the coaches are expected to scout. Although, possibly more should be expected from the Assistant Head Coach......or is that Assistant to the Head Coach..... I just never understood why they were so fired up about keeping this guy from going to Buffalo. I would have preferred that they gave Krumrie some fake title and begged him to stay.

I guess I never really got over the year Alexander proclaimed that he finally had his 'dream line'. I believe it was his 'dream line' that set a franchise record for most sacks given up.

I have also never gotten over Macho Grande...

[HAPPYJAQ]

I remember a time where people said that Jim McNally was a terrible OL coach, too.

http://www.buffalosportshallfame.com/2008/jim_mcnally.html

It's clear that Alexander is not a very good evaluator of talent, but I still believe he is an exce;;ent "teacher". 2 of the 5 or 6 best linemen in Bengals history have played under his watch in Anderson and Braham. He also coached Steinbach to a near Pro Bowl level and Bobbie Williams has improved dramatically here. Giaciuac has been much-maligned, but he was a 4th-round project pick who has had to catch up to an already-established offense in the 2nd most difficult position to master on offense at C. Braham didn't exactly blow it up immediately when he first got here and some may not remember that he arrived on WAIVERS from Arizona as a G, and Alexander converted him to C. For those that do remember the days of Kevin Sargent, Branham struggled mightily when he first got here, too. Consider the past seasons in developing Levi Jones, who was called a reach by nearly everyone, to a quality T (at his best) and you can see that Alexander has some developmental talent.

I think that he's done well in developing the youngsters on the current team in Whitworth, Livings and Collins. Another thing that fans must remember is that the Bengals are one of the only teams in the league that practices their linemen at multiple positions, which helps the team with versatility amongst the group, but hinders development some, I would think. Alexander is one first round talent away from reclaiming his position as one of the best OL coaches in the game.