Marvin Lewis

[volcom69]

LOL LOL LOL this has to be the funniest thing i have ever heard, the guy wins one game out of 9, and its like were going to superbowl.....oh wait maybe that was our superbowl. What a joke Marvin is such a big joke when it comes to a coach, but yet lets vote him in, I think not. I watch alittle of the Titans game, and i saw before the game and after halftime Jeff Fisher got his guys in a big circle and was firing up his guys, thats what this team needs from a head coach. Marvin has no fire power left and wont motivate his guys and hes up for coach of the weeks, yea right.

[icehole3]

I was laughing at that too, it took a last second batted down pass by Joseph to stop a 2 point conversion in order for the Bengals to pull it out and he's up for coach of the week.

[COB]

Damn, tough crowd in here. Maybe he deserves coach of the week every week for working with a personnel/scouting apparatus that is one fifth the size of everyone else's. Maybe he deserves coach of the week for somehow getting one week of team play out of the several prima donna misfits that Mike forces on him. Maybe he deserves coach of the week because football people in the league watched the tape and recognized that he had some brilliant scheme that worked against he Jags. All most of us see is a bunch of fat guys slamming into each other followed by some freak athletes running and hitting each other.

Maybe this so called joke of a coach will leave here and go coach a super bowl team. It happens all the time.

[UF_Gators_15]

All I have to say is that while I did vote for only b/c I'm certainly not voting for that queer Tomlin and we had a chance to hire Tom Coughlin and I'm just too bitter to vote for him, my first reaction to this was a nice hardy chuckle.

[Jet23]

Damn, tough crowd in here. Maybe he deserves coach of the week every week for working with a personnel/scouting apparatus that is one fifth the size of everyone else's. Maybe he deserves coach of the week for somehow getting one week of team play out of the several prima donna misfits that Mike forces on him. Maybe he deserves coach of the week because football people in the league watched the tape and recognized that he had some brilliant scheme that worked against he Jags. All most of us see is a bunch of fat guys slamming into each other followed by some freak athletes running and hitting each other.

Maybe this so called joke of a coach will leave here and go coach a super bowl team. It happens all the time.

True dat! I don't know if ML is a good coach. It's impossible to tell. I know that he had them on the right track, before personnel decisions put a stop to that. Yes, he is partly responsible for SOME of the personnel decisions. However, far too much evaluation is left up to the coaching staff. Why? Because SOP is cheap and his family and friends SUCK AT IT!

If you put a gun to my head, I would say that he is probably a decent coach that could win at a real organization. He has made mistakes. But, he has also been put in situations that no other NFL HC has to face, with the possible exception of Oakland. It's a runaway train now. I just hope it runs over SOP.

[Kazkal]

Stuff he overcomes by being our coach I think he deserves it even at 1-8 lol.

Maybe this so called joke of a coach will leave here and go coach a super bowl team. It happens all the time.

If i'm not mistaken didn't that Belicheat fellow use to coach for that really crappy team the browns? How have the browns been since then? and how has belicheat done?I'm with C.o.B on this

[gregstephens]

Stuff he overcomes by being our coach I think he deserves it even at 1-8 lol.

Maybe this so called joke of a coach will leave here and go coach a super bowl team. It happens all the time.

If i'm not mistaken didn't that Belicheat fellow use to coach for that really crappy team the browns? How have the browns been since then? and how has belicheat done?I'm with C.o.B on this

Yeah...I'm not thinking the 'Rushmore of Coaches' has Landry, Lombardi, Belichek and LEWIS on it.

Is Lewis a good coach? I don't know. He led this team to a playoff in 2005. That's good. He takes essentially the same team, minus a couple of key o-linemen, and they go 8-8, 7-9 and God knows what this year. That's bad.

All of that said, he's probably a C-plus coach. He goes to a really good team and hits a wildcard spot now and then, probably doesn't win one. He can't take a crappy team and turn them around. No shame really.

[volcom69]

Yea im gonna be tough im sorry, but what has he done here, yea he took them to the playoffs ONCE, other than that i dont see how he is a great coach. Wow one game this year his game planning is actully better then someone elses, but what about all those other games. Marvin cant even get these guys to give 100% in a game hell hes already said "im not motivating my guys its not my job", are you kidding if he gave a crap then maybe he would try new things, try ways to get these guys to play hard. I understand some of it is players, some is MB, but Marvin is the coach and i see an average football coach on the field. He lost this team after his playoff run and its been nothing but trouble since. Im tired of losing just like everyone else, but what has Marvin done latley that says he should continue to be the coach. I guess if we wanna continue to go 8-8 thats fine, but i would like to go somewhere before im dead.

For those of you who like him and think he should stay thats fine, and im not here to argue about it, and yea he may move on and be a great coach on another team, but for this team he just an average coach that cant get his guys ready to play on game day. I dont think he is strict enough to coach these clowns on the field half of them can get away with anything, and Marvin will just smile like he always does. Just my thought, i dont think he is the right coach for these players.

[Kazkal]

, minus a couple of key o-linemen, and they go 8-8, 7-9 and God knows what this year. That's bad.

Minus a few key linemen is pretty big when you looked at how the offense started playing,how much worse our offense was each year "shrug"

Can't run the ball? Can't give carson enough time? have bob calling the same exact plays in the same order that he did in 2005? that smells like success..........................

[ArmyBengal]

I'm not saying the guy is the next Lombardi or something, but he isn't he sole reason either. Go ahead and praise Fisher all you want, but there was a time when the Titans fans wanted to crucify that guy !!!

[cincyhokie]

Damn, tough crowd in here. Maybe he deserves coach of the week every week for working with a personnel/scouting apparatus that is one fifth the size of everyone else's. Maybe he deserves coach of the week for somehow getting one week of team play out of the several prima donna misfits that Mike forces on him. Maybe he deserves coach of the week because football people in the league watched the tape and recognized that he had some brilliant scheme that worked against he Jags. All most of us see is a bunch of fat guys slamming into each other followed by some freak athletes running and hitting each other.

Maybe this so called joke of a coach will leave here and go coach a super bowl team. It happens all the time.

I don't disagree with you but you have to take into consideration that coaches can improve their skills just as players can. I'm sure Billichick would say he's a better HC now than he was in Cleveland, just from experience.

In Marvin's case he's got his back against the wall dealing with MB. Time will tell if he's successful somewhere else. I think he can win with another team but he'll never coach teams that get deep into the playoffs or get to the superbowl.

[volcom69]

Im also not really praising Fisher, i just liked what i saw when he was firing up his guys and i would just like Marvin to once in awhile do that. I would like him to go to each guy and give them praise when it do, or give them hell when it is needed. Im also not saying Marvin is the worst coach or is the greatest coach, but i still wonder if hes the right guy for the job, but if all goes as planed he will be back next year, and we can see what he does.

[Kazkal]

What about Tony Dungy? Has to be one of the quietest guys in the nfl yet he's be a very successful headcoach....I wonder if he'll want a tuna type job after he's done with the colts... As if we would bring him in for it >_<

[Jet23]

Like NFL kickers, sometimes your first job is not your best job. I'm sure Marvin would like about 1,000 'do overs'. Most of them probably involve Ocho Whatever. But, that's not how it works in the NFL. In other words, it's hard to be Forrest Gregg, when you already showed your Wade Phillips side. Once the organization gets out of hand, there's really not much you can do. Sometimes change is necessary, even if not fair.

That being said, who would SOP bring in that can possibly be successful under his system? The answer is.....wait for it..... absolutely nobody. Coughlin would have been the coach, had he not demanded a real scouting department and operational NFL structure. I still believe that Marvin (desperate for a job and confident in his own talent evaluation abilities) convinced the SOB SOP that he could be successful under his joke of a family / friends network. NOT! ML overestimated his talent evaluation skills, while underestimating Mikey's propensity to cut corners for the benefit of his bank account and subsequent windfall for his heirs.

In closing, I give Marvin an Incomplete. Like Senator McCain, he never really had a chance. George Bush made McCain's failure inevitable, just as Mike Brown makes it impossible for ML to succeed.

[COB]

Like NFL kickers, sometimes your first job is not your best job. I'm sure Marvin would like about 1,000 'do overs'. Most of them probably involve Ocho Whatever. But, that's not how it works in the NFL. In other words, it's hard to be Forrest Gregg, when you already showed your Wade Phillips side. Once the organization gets out of hand, there's really not much you can do. Sometimes change is necessary, even if not fair.

That being said, who would SOP bring in that can possibly be successful under his system? The answer is.....wait for it..... absolutely nobody. Coughlin would have been the coach, had he not demanded a real scouting department and operational NFL structure. I still believe that Marvin (desperate for a job and confident in his own talent evaluation abilities) convinced the SOB SOP that he could be successful under his joke of a family / friends network. NOT! ML overestimated his talent evaluation skills, while underestimating Mikey's propensity to cut corners for the benefit of his bank account and subsequent windfall for his heirs.

In closing, I give Marvin an Incomplete. Like Senator McCain, he never really had a chance. George Bush made McCain's failure inevitable, just as Mike Brown makes it impossible for ML to succeed.

That about sums it up. Marvin could succeed elsewhere. Super Bowl winners who got fired (or just not re-upped) from their previous jobs include Coughlin, Gruden, Bellicheat, Shanahan, and Dungy. But it is difficult to tell how good Marvin is based on the unusual situation he's in.

[Spor_tees]

Like NFL kickers, sometimes your first job is not your best job. I'm sure Marvin would like about 1,000 'do overs'. Most of them probably involve Ocho Whatever. But, that's not how it works in the NFL. In other words, it's hard to be Forrest Gregg, when you already showed your Wade Phillips side. Once the organization gets out of hand, there's really not much you can do. Sometimes change is necessary, even if not fair.

That being said, who would SOP bring in that can possibly be successful under his system? The answer is.....wait for it..... absolutely nobody. Coughlin would have been the coach, had he not demanded a real scouting department and operational NFL structure. I still believe that Marvin (desperate for a job and confident in his own talent evaluation abilities) convinced the SOB SOP that he could be successful under his joke of a family / friends network. NOT! ML overestimated his talent evaluation skills, while underestimating Mikey's propensity to cut corners for the benefit of his bank account and subsequent windfall for his heirs.

In closing, I give Marvin an Incomplete. Like Senator McCain, he never really had a chance. George Bush made McCain's failure inevitable, just as Mike Brown makes it impossible for ML to succeed.

That about sums it up. Marvin could succeed elsewhere. Super Bowl winners who got fired (or just not re-upped) from their previous jobs include Coughlin, Gruden, Bellicheat, Shanahan, and Dungy. But it is difficult to tell how good Marvin is based on the unusual situation he's in.

Coughlin led the Jags to an AFC championship game, Gruden wasn't released, he was traded for and he took the Raiders to the Super Bowl, Bellicheat...eh a lot of his success could be do in part to other factors but he was a very successful coordinator under some great coaches. Dungy was VERY successful and helped to build the team that Gruden won a Super Bowl with in Tampa the next year. Shanahan has been mildly successful every where he went and has never had the types of problems Marvin has had.

That being said, I think Cohwer on the half-time report summed it up best when he said that the Bengals are a first half team...that was a direct slap in the face of Marvin in his coaches pointing out what many of us on this board have said before. Marvin is not a good motivator, he isn't able to go in at half time and fire up his guys to come out for the second half. Secondly he is not able to make adjustments during the game. This is especially true at half time. His teams always seem to come out flat and unprepared after half. The last major fault with Marvin as coach is his poor in-game management. Time after time he fails to challenge calls that he should, and he is horrible at clock management.

Some guys can be coordinators and are poor at being head coaches. I just think that being a head coach is just too much for Marvin's plate. In my mid I don't see Marvin being a successful coach anywhere he goes, he is in the same mold of a Dick Lebeau.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Winning your first game at home versus an overrated Jags team, and barely winning it in the end at that - and being your fist win of the year - doesn't equal "coach the week" honors in my book, or even a nomination.

Fitz played well, the o-line finally looked competent, Benson had a great game...the defense played well before doing their typical folding act in the 4th quarter, special teams were a mixed bag as usual....not sure what Marvin did that was so great.

No coach is successful here under Mike Brown - Marvin has had the most success and he's under .500 now - will give him that. I like his talent evaluation abilities more than anything, and his knowledge of NFL operations - but yeah he's hamstrung. I don't care if he stays or goes, I just want to see FO changes, and until that happens, I'm not supporting the franchise in any way.

[HairOnFire]

Like NFL kickers, sometimes your first job is not your best job. I'm sure Marvin would like about 1,000 'do overs'. Most of them probably involve Ocho Whatever. But, that's not how it works in the NFL. In other words, it's hard to be Forrest Gregg, when you already showed your Wade Phillips side. Once the organization gets out of hand, there's really not much you can do. Sometimes change is necessary, even if not fair.

That being said, who would SOP bring in that can possibly be successful under his system? The answer is.....wait for it..... absolutely nobody. Coughlin would have been the coach, had he not demanded a real scouting department and operational NFL structure. I still believe that Marvin (desperate for a job and confident in his own talent evaluation abilities) convinced the SOB SOP that he could be successful under his joke of a family / friends network. NOT! ML overestimated his talent evaluation skills, while underestimating Mikey's propensity to cut corners for the benefit of his bank account and subsequent windfall for his heirs.

In closing, I give Marvin an Incomplete. Like Senator McCain, he never really had a chance. George Bush made McCain's failure inevitable, just as Mike Brown makes it impossible for ML to succeed.

Ignoring for a moment the strange loss of focus at the end.......I have to agree with ALL of the above. Well said.

[HairOnFire]

Marvin is not a good motivator.......

Well, yes and no. It seems ridiculous to claim Lewis can't motivate when the memory of his first three seasons with the Bengals is still so fresh in our memories. So the question I have is if he can still motivate this team now. Can a diminished Marvin Lewis repeat what he once accomplished? Personally, I still have plenty of respect for Marvin Lewis but for dozens of reasons I have strong doubts about his chances of turning this thing around. But here are the two biggest.

First, IMHO Mike Brown has spent the last couple of season spending Marvin Lewis's credibility as if it were limitless, and it most certainly isn't. Worse, what was once a slow erosion of respect became a public humiliation after Brown dumped an unwanted Chris Henry into Lewis's lap. On the surface it might have seemed like just one more thing in a long history of just one more things, but it was much more. Because with that one act every whispered rumor about Brown undercutting his past head coaches became a hard reality. Frankly, very few coaches can recover under circumstances like that, but in Lewis's example things are even worse because one of his most important core players also happens to be a bigger diva than Cher.

Last, no matter how much he stressed the point nobody really "bought in"...from the owner right on down to the guy who sweeps the floor at night. For example, Mike Brown clearly hasn't given Lewis the freedom he needed, far too many Bengal players attempted to cash in rather than build on 2005's success, and a substantial portion of the fan base never cast off the negativity of past failure. Coupled with a skeptical if not openly hostile local press the mood surrounding all things Bengal never really shook off it's toxic trappings.

And bottom line, if it couldn't manage that trick after Lewis's early success I doubt it can be done at all.

[chandon]

Like NFL kickers, sometimes your first job is not your best job. I'm sure Marvin would like about 1,000 'do overs'. Most of them probably involve Ocho Whatever. But, that's not how it works in the NFL. In other words, it's hard to be Forrest Gregg, when you already showed your Wade Phillips side. Once the organization gets out of hand, there's really not much you can do. Sometimes change is necessary, even if not fair.

That being said, who would SOP bring in that can possibly be successful under his system? The answer is.....wait for it..... absolutely nobody. Coughlin would have been the coach, had he not demanded a real scouting department and operational NFL structure. I still believe that Marvin (desperate for a job and confident in his own talent evaluation abilities) convinced the SOB SOP that he could be successful under his joke of a family / friends network. NOT! ML overestimated his talent evaluation skills, while underestimating Mikey's propensity to cut corners for the benefit of his bank account and subsequent windfall for his heirs.

In closing, I give Marvin an Incomplete. Like Senator McCain, he never really had a chance. George Bush made McCain's failure inevitable, just as Mike Brown makes it impossible for ML to succeed.

Ignoring for a moment the strange loss of focus at the end.......I have to agree with ALL of the above. Well said.

I agree as well. ML is in his first HC job, and thought he could make the transition from DC to HC without too much trouble. That may actually be the case, but unfortunately he chose a team which has the unusual additional trauma of "The Mike Brown factor!" He got early success in '05, but it has been downhill from there on with injuries and an increasing amount of undermining influence from MB. I think with this season that it got to a point when he'd taken just about enough with the Henry incident, and Marvin really does not know what to do next! I firmly believe he wants to win and build a successful team, but doesn't have the necessary whatever to get it done. I believe when he said' It's not my job to motivate the team ', that was an expression of extreme frustration aimed at MB, telling him that if Mikey-boy wants to stick his nose into everything that Marvin does then Mikey-boy can go the whole hog and run the damn team!

Two expressions now sprint to mind.

A change is as good as a rest. - Marvin needs to go find another team to manage.

A new broom sweeps clean. - We need a new coach. Not because Marvin is a bad HC...perhaps just an inexperienced one...but just because someone new may have a fresh perspective and a different approach. Will that make a new HC successful? Probably not in this organisation, but whilst a new broom isn't necessarily a better broom it is someone new the players have to deal with. That in itself may be enough to start the fires burning again.

We have a London-based soccor team here in the UK called Spurs. Up to a month ago they had won only 1 game all season in the Premier League under a good Manager who just couldn't get them playing well. He wasn't a bad Manager...he just wasn't good for the club right now. He left and a new Manager has taken over and won 4 straight games. Why? Because he was a much better Manager? Probably not - he was just a new face with new ideas and something to prove.

Go find somewhere which works for you Marvin. I wish you every success.

[Jet23]

Like NFL kickers, sometimes your first job is not your best job. I'm sure Marvin would like about 1,000 'do overs'. Most of them probably involve Ocho Whatever. But, that's not how it works in the NFL. In other words, it's hard to be Forrest Gregg, when you already showed your Wade Phillips side. Once the organization gets out of hand, there's really not much you can do. Sometimes change is necessary, even if not fair.

That being said, who would SOP bring in that can possibly be successful under his system? The answer is.....wait for it..... absolutely nobody. Coughlin would have been the coach, had he not demanded a real scouting department and operational NFL structure. I still believe that Marvin (desperate for a job and confident in his own talent evaluation abilities) convinced the SOB SOP that he could be successful under his joke of a family / friends network. NOT! ML overestimated his talent evaluation skills, while underestimating Mikey's propensity to cut corners for the benefit of his bank account and subsequent windfall for his heirs.

In closing, I give Marvin an Incomplete. Like Senator McCain, he never really had a chance. George Bush made McCain's failure inevitable, just as Mike Brown makes it impossible for ML to succeed.

Ignoring for a moment the strange loss of focus at the end.......I have to agree with ALL of the above. Well said.

I agree as well. ML is in his first HC job, and thought he could make the transition from DC to HC without too much trouble. That may actually be the case, but unfortunately he chose a team which has the unusual additional trauma of "The Mike Brown factor!" He got early success in '05, but it has been downhill from there on with injuries and an increasing amount of undermining influence from MB. I think with this season that it got to a point when he'd taken just about enough with the Henry incident, and Marvin really does not know what to do next! I firmly believe he wants to win and build a successful team, but doesn't have the necessary whatever to get it done. I believe when he said' It's not my job to motivate the team ', that was an expression of extreme frustration aimed at MB, telling him that if Mikey-boy wants to stick his nose into everything that Marvin does then Mikey-boy can go the whole hog and run the damn team!

Two expressions now sprint to mind.

A change is as good as a rest. - Marvin needs to go find another team to manage.

A new broom sweeps clean. - We need a new coach. Not because Marvin is a bad HC...perhaps just an inexperienced one...but just because someone new may have a fresh perspective and a different approach. Will that make a new HC successful? Probably not in this organisation, but whilst a new broom isn't necessarily a better broom it is someone new the players have to deal with. That in itself may be enough to start the fires burning again.

We have a London-based soccor team here in the UK called Spurs. Up to a month ago they had won only 1 game all season in the Premier League under a good Manager who just couldn't get them playing well. He wasn't a bad Manager...he just wasn't good for the club right now. He left and a new Manager has taken over and won 4 straight games. Why? Because he was a much better Manager? Probably not - he was just a new face with new ideas and something to prove.

Go find somewhere which works for you Marvin. I wish you every success.

You managed to incorporate both footballs into one post. Nice work...

[BengalszoneBilly]

I personally am not buying into Marvin Lewis being worthy of this accolade. He may be a middle of the road defensive coordinator, but he sure as hell isn't a worthy head coach.

Fire up his team before a game? Ain't happening.

Make halftime adjustments? You may as well be speaking Chinese, he simply doesn't understand.

Verbally light up a player on the sidelines when they f**k up on the field? Never happens.

Do I need to go on?

Marvin Lewis simply is NOT HC material in this league.

[Spor_tees]

Wasn't there an article recently where Marvin says he doesn't motivate players and that he doesn't feel he should have to? He says if they can't motivate themselves there is something wrong. I don't know about anyone else, but he is the first coach I have ever heard says something like that. When you watch the most successful teams in the NFL you always see them getting pumped up before the game and you see tapes of coaches giving speeches in the locker room. Was this just the quote of a broken man that wants out of Cincy or just a defensive coordinator in a coaches position? Personally I think he needs to go back to what he was good at...

[chandon]

Like NFL kickers, sometimes your first job is not your best job. I'm sure Marvin would like about 1,000 'do overs'. Most of them probably involve Ocho Whatever. But, that's not how it works in the NFL. In other words, it's hard to be Forrest Gregg, when you already showed your Wade Phillips side. Once the organization gets out of hand, there's really not much you can do. Sometimes change is necessary, even if not fair.

That being said, who would SOP bring in that can possibly be successful under his system? The answer is.....wait for it..... absolutely nobody. Coughlin would have been the coach, had he not demanded a real scouting department and operational NFL structure. I still believe that Marvin (desperate for a job and confident in his own talent evaluation abilities) convinced the SOB SOP that he could be successful under his joke of a family / friends network. NOT! ML overestimated his talent evaluation skills, while underestimating Mikey's propensity to cut corners for the benefit of his bank account and subsequent windfall for his heirs.

In closing, I give Marvin an Incomplete. Like Senator McCain, he never really had a chance. George Bush made McCain's failure inevitable, just as Mike Brown makes it impossible for ML to succeed.

Ignoring for a moment the strange loss of focus at the end.......I have to agree with ALL of the above. Well said.

I agree as well. ML is in his first HC job, and thought he could make the transition from DC to HC without too much trouble. That may actually be the case, but unfortunately he chose a team which has the unusual additional trauma of "The Mike Brown factor!" He got early success in '05, but it has been downhill from there on with injuries and an increasing amount of undermining influence from MB. I think with this season that it got to a point when he'd taken just about enough with the Henry incident, and Marvin really does not know what to do next! I firmly believe he wants to win and build a successful team, but doesn't have the necessary whatever to get it done. I believe when he said' It's not my job to motivate the team ', that was an expression of extreme frustration aimed at MB, telling him that if Mikey-boy wants to stick his nose into everything that Marvin does then Mikey-boy can go the whole hog and run the damn team!

Two expressions now sprint to mind.

A change is as good as a rest. - Marvin needs to go find another team to manage.

A new broom sweeps clean. - We need a new coach. Not because Marvin is a bad HC...perhaps just an inexperienced one...but just because someone new may have a fresh perspective and a different approach. Will that make a new HC successful? Probably not in this organisation, but whilst a new broom isn't necessarily a better broom it is someone new the players have to deal with. That in itself may be enough to start the fires burning again.

We have a London-based soccor team here in the UK called Spurs. Up to a month ago they had won only 1 game all season in the Premier League under a good Manager who just couldn't get them playing well. He wasn't a bad Manager...he just wasn't good for the club right now. He left and a new Manager has taken over and won 4 straight games. Why? Because he was a much better Manager? Probably not - he was just a new face with new ideas and something to prove.

Go find somewhere which works for you Marvin. I wish you every success.

You managed to incorporate both footballs into one post. Nice work...

Not easy when your balls are different shapes and sizes.....

[COB]

Was this just the quote of a broken man that wants out of Cincy or just a defensive coordinator in a coaches position?

Neither. I think it was just the quote of a liar. Marvin lies in his press conferences all the time.

And speaking of motivating players, I think that those lies are one of the tools he uses to motivate them.

They know he'll never call them out in public. He doesn't humiliate them on the sidelines or badmouth them to reporters. In my opinion this is one of the qualities that makes players want to play for him.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that Marvin is this way. He doesn't respect the press or feel any obligation regarding keeping fans informed of his thought processes or the internal workings of the team. I think this quality also puts him in good stead with his employer.

So when I hear that Marvin said he doesn't motivate players, they should already be motivated, I feel I know as much about that issue as I did before I heard the quote. Nothing.