TJ must be excited to escape Shawshank!

[walzav29]

Chad has himself to blame for extending his deal, but TJ must be licking his chops at escaping. I see crystal clear now why Chad wanted to leave. Poor Rudi made a mistake, but I hope TJ finds a good team to sign with.

[HoosierCat]

Assuming, of course, that TJ doesn't get tagged.

In which case we can probably bid farewell to Graham.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Hoosier beat me to it - and it's sad that they couldn't pay both Graham and TJ if necessary (while cutting some other chaffe to free up room if necessary).

What's the point now though, he doesn't want to play here, and they need a complete overhaul this roster's so mangled....not that it will ever happen here, the right way.

[HoosierCat]

Hoosier beat me to it - and it's sad that they couldn't pay both Graham and TJ if necessary (while cutting some other chaffe to free up room if necessary).

Oh, they can well afford both right now. Last I heard from Hobson, they were $10+ million under the cap. My thinking is just that anyone who is a UFA and has any value -- like, for instance, Graham -- will run for the hills after week 17, regardless of how much cash the Bengals offer.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Hoosier beat me to it - and it's sad that they couldn't pay both Graham and TJ if necessary (while cutting some other chaffe to free up room if necessary).

Oh, they can well afford both right now. Last I heard from Hobson, they were $10+ million under the cap. My thinking is just that anyone who is a UFA and has any value -- like, for instance, Graham -- will run for the hills after week 17, regardless of how much cash the Bengals offer.

Yeah I guess that's true as well. And you know Mike Brown does NOT want to pay a kicker top dollar regardless, and probably won't. Maybe he'll surprise us, but if he does, it'll come at the cost of a good O or D lineman any ways.

Ugh.

[GregCook]

Hoosier beat me to it - and it's sad that they couldn't pay both Graham and TJ if necessary (while cutting some other chaffe to free up room if necessary).

Oh, they can well afford both right now. Last I heard from Hobson, they were $10+ million under the cap. My thinking is just that anyone who is a UFA and has any value -- like, for instance, Graham -- will run for the hills after week 17, regardless of how much cash the Bengals offer.

Yeah I guess that's true as well. And you know Mike Brown does NOT want to pay a kicker top dollar regardless, and probably won't. Maybe he'll surprise us, but if he does, it'll come at the cost of a good O or D lineman any ways.

Ugh.

TJ is one calm dude knowing his time in hell is almost over. I can't see Mike franchising him. Not with a number 1 or 2 draft pick to pay. Mike is getting what he deserves, an opportunity to pay maximum rent for a rookie. Mike will have to

let guys go just to swallow this bill. TJ, Stacy, Thornton will just walk, he'll have to cut some vets too but that still won't be enough to easy Brown's pain.

[Kazkal]

Can't you trade a tagged player if they haven't signed yet?

[COB]

As this front office continues to plumb the depths of dysfunction and stupidity, refusing to pay their top-shelf kicker would totally fit their strategy. What their strategy is, I do not know.

[cincy9275]

tj will be what 32? i don't see mikey spending a lot of cash on tj. tj wants out of here. i don't blame him, then you know tj is not the only one that wants out of here.

[agreen_112]

If there's a John Thorton here next year and No TJ Houshmandzadeh I will give up on this team.

[TJJackson]

If there's a John Thorton here next year and No TJ Houshmandzadeh I will give up on this team.

Cool....I knew there had to be a silver lining in all this, and there it is

[agreen_112]

Hi TJ.

[Ickey44]

If there's a John Thorton here next year and No TJ Houshmandzadeh I will give up on this team.

Cool....I knew there had to be a silver lining in all this, and there it is

[ArmyBengal]

Thornton should still be here THIS year and if he is here next, it will just be yet another reason to confirm why this team will always be a bunch of failures. Why people still defend this chump is beyond me. Sims provides more push and is quicker off the snap than Thornton. I'm ready to never see Thornton start another game this or any other season here. Now if they could just give Shirley a chance, I would be really happy. It couldn't do anything else than help him in getting snaps.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Oh, they can well afford both right now. Last I heard from Hobson, they were $10+ million under the cap.

And that's Hobson math, so it's probably $20M under.

That's what pisses me off more than anything - the unused cap space. Not sure if it's cheapness or utter incompetence, but it's ridiculous.

Where are our in-house Mikey apologists around now, anyway?

[gregstephens]

Oh, they can well afford both right now. Last I heard from Hobson, they were $10+ million under the cap.

Where are our in-house Mikey apologists around now, anyway?

Hmmphhhh! <choking on my water>

We've actually had some??

[TJJackson]

I think Hair likes Son-of-a-Genius

Then again, Hair doesn't seem to like anyone, really

[gregstephens]

I think Hair likes Son-of-a-Genius

Then again, Hair doesn't seem to like anyone, really

Perhaps...he has been noticeable with his absence for quite a while.

[HoosierCat]

Well...I'll say this much in defense of Mike Brown:

Mike Brown isn't out there on the field missing tackles. He's not out there dropping balls. He isn't missing blitz pickups or throwing passes into the dirt. He isn't drawing up the game plans or calling the plays.

No, that's the players and coaches who are 0-8. Guys who are well-compensated to be professional football players and coaches. And guys that we know can be successful. We saw it in '05, right?

Now, I think it's a perfectly legit and correct argument to point out that the guy who assembled this team is Mike Brown. And that makes this 0-8 record ultimately his responsibility. No question about it.

But all those players and coaches had choices, too. When Mike Brown over-ruled Marvin on Chris Henry (and who knows what else), Marvin could have walked. He didn't. When last season ended, guys like Chad and TJ could have acted like pros and spent the offseason working with Palmer to regain their '05 form. They didn't. Players like Odell and Henry could have dedicated themselves to living up to the obligations that their prior mistakes had laid on them. They didn't. And on and on.

That in no way exonerates Mike Brown. But as I said all through the 1990s, when it comes to what's wrong with the Bengals, there's plenty of blame to go around.

[Pidge]

Maybe there is blame to go around but what's the one constant throughout the almost 2 decades since Paul Brown RIP died. Through all that time, the hundreds of players, the dozens of coaches. Yep, dear old Mikey. As the head of this organisation, it falls on his shoulders to set it up so it's run to his standards. If he fails he gets the crap - that's the deal. However, in this case, he's getting exactly what he wants. A nice profit for f**k all effort. He gets crap for that too.

[HoosierCat]

Maybe there is blame to go around but what's the one constant throughout the almost 2 decades since Paul Brown RIP died.

No argument there. If Mikey were just a GM working for an owner in some other city, he would have been fired along with Dave Shula and would be nothing more than a distant, bad memory to the game of football.

But the fact remains that he's had plenty of help screwing up, from coaches who accepted their own castration in return for a fat paycheck, to players -- Dillon, Wilkinson, Spikes, Pickens, Scott, etc. -- who were paid like pros and acted like spoiled children.

There's no doubt it all starts at the top. But crap flows downhill, and the entire organization has come to wallow in it.

[HairOnFire]

I think Hair likes Son-of-a-Genius

Then again, Hair doesn't seem to like anyone, really

Perhaps...he has been noticeable with his absence for quite a while.

Noticeable by my absence?

Should I be flattered?

[gregstephens]

I think Hair likes Son-of-a-Genius

Then again, Hair doesn't seem to like anyone, really

Perhaps...he has been noticeable with his absence for quite a while.

Noticeable by my absence?

Should I be flattered?

I don't know. Didn't really think of it in those terms when I posted that. Your name was used, perhaps or perhaps not in vain, and it just struck me I hadn't seen anything from you in a while.

Welcome back.

[Dadraftnick]

Well...I'll say this much in defense of Mike Brown:

Mike Brown isn't out there on the field missing tackles. He's not out there dropping balls. He isn't missing blitz pickups or throwing passes into the dirt. He isn't drawing up the game plans or calling the plays.

No, that's the players and coaches who are 0-8. Guys who are well-compensated to be professional football players and coaches. And guys that we know can be successful. We saw it in '05, right?

Now, I think it's a perfectly legit and correct argument to point out that the guy who assembled this team is Mike Brown. And that makes this 0-8 record ultimately his responsibility. No question about it.

But all those players and coaches had choices, too. When Mike Brown over-ruled Marvin on Chris Henry (and who knows what else), Marvin could have walked. He didn't. When last season ended, guys like Chad and TJ could have acted like pros and spent the offseason working with Palmer to regain their '05 form. They didn't. Players like Odell and Henry could have dedicated themselves to living up to the obligations that their prior mistakes had laid on them. They didn't. And on and on.

That in no way exonerates Mike Brown. But as I said all through the 1990s, when it comes to what's wrong with the Bengals, there's plenty of blame to go around.

Hoosier, you are right that Brown is not the one that is dropping all of those balls,missing blitz pickups ect.

Mike Brown is that is ultimately responsiable for drafting all of those guys that are blowing those plays.

Mike Brown is the guy that hired the coaches that that overlook guys screw-ups.

Mike Brown is the guy that cut three players at the begining of the year, to do some profit taking, that sent a message to the team that, he does not care about winning.

Brown is the guy that undermines his head coaches.

Mikey Boy is the guy that will not change the way he does things.

Brown is the inept owner that refuses to hire a GM despite one winning season in nearly 20 years.

Mike Brown is the guy that refused all of the Saints draft choices plus 1st and 3rd rnd picks for an additional 2 years so he could draft Akili Smith, who would have likely still been there when the Saints pick came around.

Mike Brown is the guy that fired Sam Wyche one year two years after taking his team to the Super Bowl and one year after a play-off appearnce to hire Dave Shula.

I could go on - the point- there is no excuse for Mike Brown- he is the problem, until he hires a GM and changes the way things are done we will get more of the same.

Could you imagine Mike Brown running any other bussiness with his record of ineptness and still haveing a job?

[preyer]

wasn't wyche's biggest problem his big mouth, his inability to get along with the media?

putting up a case for MB is fun if for no other reason than to flex your debating muscles defending untenable positions. however, put all the facts against any scientific standard (man, i'm sounding undumber than usual today, huh) and you'll find the only constant is the owner. almost every team goes through a cycle of suckdom, then greatness, up and down and around and around. just hard to find teams that suck this bad for so long. you have to look at '05 as a fluke, don't you?

who can blame these guys for wanting to leave?

and, no, anywhere else and in ANY profession mike brown would be unemployed. yea, verily running a football team must be difficult. but how hard is it to suck at a job? not very.

i do agree with you, cat, that these guys are paid a lot of money to do a job. they are, however, pretty far removed from reality you and i endure, i'm sure. too often we instill our own values on others and can't see why they are the way they are. i don't know if there's any validity in that stripe of thought, just throwing it out there.