"Do what you got to do"

[jjakq27]

Marvin's comment from the beginning of his press conference. Flippant remark or the big FU to fans?

http://www.thelotd.com/ctrent/blog/2008/09...me_fun_hour_910

[BengalszoneBilly]

Marvin's comment from the beginning of his press conference. Flippant remark or the big FU to fans?

http://www.thelotd.com/ctrent/blog/2008/09...me_fun_hour_910

Sure Marvin, we'll do what we gotta do while your head continues to be stuffed up your pompous ass.

I loved the quote from C. Trent, who I consider the best. Far better than even Mikey's house boy Geoff Hobson!

Marvin Lewis' advice to fans "on the ledge": "Do what you've got to do."

So, in other words...

[volcom69]

Maybe he should do what hes got to do... COACH your freakin idoit that is if you know how. Start acting like a coach get mad for once, get in guys face show them you are the boss of this team and you mean it. Take some control of these guys stop letting them walk up and down on you. Motivate this team find ways to get these guys ready to play football, learn how to game plan better, learn how to make halftime adjustments. STOP BEING SUCH A p***y AND U DO YOUR JOB. Ok thats how i feel about him lol.

[gregstephens]

I'm going to paraphrase my good friend ArmyBengal on this one: "F*CK YOU, MARVIN!"

Thank you, Mark.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm going to paraphrase my good friend ArmyBengal on this one: "F*CK YOU, MARVIN!"

Thank you, Mark.

What he said !!!

WHODEY !!!

[kingwilly]

What do ML and George W. Bush have in common?

The way he handles the press and the fans is telling of how he deals with adversity, SoP and the team.

I am not surprised by this type of reaction, though. He is losing his team, if not lost already. He mis-handled the internal power struggle within the organization, as evidenced by the last 4 drafts, the Henry affair, Rudi/Willie/Deltha and his bourgeois attitude towards winning.

Marvin has checked out. He is a lame-duck coach playing out the string.

Do what you got to do, ML. Nice attitude. Terrible team.

[membengal]

It just really annoys me that when any semblemce of anger surfaces, it is directed at the fans.

He is really jumping the shark right now.

[HoosierCat]

So, let me get this straight:

As fans, we can bitch and moan on the 'net, on the radio, in letters to the paper, etc. We can call for Marvin's firing, we can scream that he sucks, that he doesn't care, that he's an idiot, etc. We can even say "F*UCK YOU MARVIN."

But Marvin can't say anything back.

If I were Marvin and had read and heard some of the stuff that's been said and written about me in the last few days by people I've never even met, well, I think my response would probably have been far less measured.

[membengal]

To the fans? No, he can't talk s**t to the fans. They are the ones that pay the freight.

If Mike Brown won't call for accountability, god forbid the fans do?

C'mon, Hoosier, you are better than that.

[HoosierCat]

To the fans? No, he can't talk s**t to the fans. They are the ones that pay the freight.

And there was a gun to everyone's head when they bought those tickets and jerseys and direct TV packages, eh? Hey, you're free to complain about the product, but no one made you buy it. If you feel ripped off, don't buy the product again.

If Mike Brown won't call for accountability, god forbid the fans do?

And it's going to get you what? Nothing, right?

[membengal]

I don't get your point, hoosier.

We are fans. And we are Bengals fans. Of course we are not going anywhere. We are loyal. So why should our loyalty be shoved back in our face by the coach. f**k that. And f**k him. Just because we are loyal doesn't mean we happily eat s**t, just because.

ML failed last week. Epic fail. Following the epic fails he turned in the first half of '07. Following the epic fails of the collapse of '06. Following the epic fail of him allowing his team to fall apart around him in the playoff game against the Steelers when adversity hit.

He. has. failed.

So, yeah, questions about his failures are fair game. And a stand up guy, a stand up coach, would acknowledge the failures, speak about what he is doing to address them, and tell a fanbase, rightfully riled up, that he knows it is on him to make it better.

I would expect that from a standup guy. I would have expected that from the '03 and '04 and '05 ML. But that ML seems lost to time now, and I don't know why. And the prickliness from the arrogant sumbitch ML that has shown up too much in the last two years has gotten very, very, old.

And as for your getting mad at fans who ask these questions, hoosier, wtf? What else is it that fans do? We fan. That means we interact, exchange opinions, discuss what we are seeing. And what we are seeing is a coach who has his two hands wrapped firmly around his own neck. So I get to ask why. More importantly, I get to hope that Ludwig and Curnutte ask why. And I get to hope that ML shows something of a sense of sack and owns up to the issues, rather than ducking and blaming. And blaming fans for their rightful reactions to the diarrhea that the team spouted last week on the field is uber-retarded of him.

He used to be better than that. I hope maybe he can be again. But it's time for him to wake the f**k up. Or else we really are drifting back to problems that look oh so familiar to everyone here who lived through the lost decade...

[HoosierCat]

I don't get your point, hoosier.

We are fans. And we are Bengals fans. Of course we are not going anywhere. We are loyal. So why should our loyalty be shoved back in our face by the coach.

Oh, gee, I dunno. Maybe because screaming F*CK YOU MARVIN is an odd way to show your loyalty? How is he supposed to respond to that? How is he supposed to respond to a bunch of people who know nothing more than they read in the paper calling for his head?

f**k that. And f**k him. Just because we are loyal doesn't mean we happily eat s**t, just because.

And neither does Marvin. Just because you bought a ticket doesn't mean Lewis has to eat your s**t without complaint, just because.

And as for your getting mad at fans who ask these questions, hoosier, wtf? What else is it that fans do? We fan. That means we interact, exchange opinions, discuss what we are seeing.

And that's fine. But to expect those discussions to be well-received by the head coach when most of them are about how said head coach sucks is ridiculous.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Oh, gee, I dunno. Maybe because screaming F*CK YOU MARVIN is an odd way to show your loyalty? How is he supposed to respond to that? How is he supposed to respond to a bunch of people who know nothing more than they read in the paper calling for his head?

Maybe he shouldn't assume that a couple of writers calling for his head speak for all the fans? Maybe he should realize that without football fans he's unemployed?

[gregstephens]

I don't get your point, hoosier.

We are fans. And we are Bengals fans. Of course we are not going anywhere. We are loyal. So why should our loyalty be shoved back in our face by the coach.

Oh, gee, I dunno. Maybe because screaming F*CK YOU MARVIN is an odd way to show your loyalty? How is he supposed to respond to that? How is he supposed to respond to a bunch of people who know nothing more than they read in the paper calling for his head?

f**k that. And f**k him. Just because we are loyal doesn't mean we happily eat s**t, just because.

And neither does Marvin. Just because you bought a ticket doesn't mean Lewis has to eat your s**t without complaint, just because.

And as for your getting mad at fans who ask these questions, hoosier, wtf? What else is it that fans do? We fan. That means we interact, exchange opinions, discuss what we are seeing.

And that's fine. But to expect those discussions to be well-received by the head coach when most of them are about how said head coach sucks is ridiculous.

He is supposed to be a professional. Not somebody coaching the little league team out of the goodness of his heart and not getting anything out of it. He better expect the fans' reactions are going to be based on what he gives us on the field. They play like crap, it is his fault, and every player on that team that is dogging it. He doesn't want to fix, or can't fix, what's on the field, ok that's one thing. To lash out at a justifiably frustrated fan base, yeah F*UCK YOU, MARVIN! It's easy for him to lash out at us because he doesn't know us and knows we can't do anything about it but piss and moan on this board. Oh sure, we can stop buying tickets and merch, but he knows we die-hards are still loyal TO THE TEAM. We will support THE TEAM.

Under your theory, since we all have to be so loyal, root for Rudi in Detroit and Willie in Baltimore and Justin and Takeo in San Fran. Doesn't work that way. We support our team, but we have the right to criticise it when it's not doing the job. Period. Does he have the right to criticise us in return? Sure, he has that right, but I reserve the right to retort as I did.

And he does suck.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

So, let me get this straight:

As fans, we can bitch and moan on the 'net, on the radio, in letters to the paper, etc. We can call for Marvin's firing, we can scream that he sucks, that he doesn't care, that he's an idiot, etc. We can even say "F*UCK YOU MARVIN."

But Marvin can't say anything back.

If I were Marvin and had read and heard some of the stuff that's been said and written about me in the last few days by people I've never even met, well, I think my response would probably have been far less measured.

If he's affected by that or someone "hurt his feelings" then he needs to find a new line of work, or win some damn games. That said, I didn't think what he said was all that bad, and was taken out of context a bit.

He can be condescending and arrogant all he wants if he's putting up winning records and going to the playoffs at least 40-50% of the time. 1 year out of 6 isn't getting it done - most other coaches would've been fired by now. He needs to get over himself.

[jjakq27]

I think it is funny to contrast the two major sports teams here in town and their stance when it comes to the fans. The Reds recently took out a full page ad in the Enquirer to apologize for their poor performance this season and their desire to bring a championship to the city.

The Bengals, on the other hand, have a GM/Owner that rarely if ever talks about winning the championship and a coach who basically dismissed the fans in a sarcastic comment at a press conference.

In the end talk is cheap but at least I feel like the Reds are aware of and listening to their fan base.

[HoosierCat]

We support our team, but we have the right to criticise it when it's not doing the job. Period. Does he have the right to criticise us in return? Sure, he has that right, but I reserve the right to retort as I did.

If that's your belief, then I'm not sure what we're disagreeing about. I didn't say fans don't have any right to complain (though I do think any who believe their complaints will have any actual impact are fooling themselves). What I said was that they ought not to be surprised when Lewis fires back in response, which you say here is legitimate for him to do.

[gregstephens]

We support our team, but we have the right to criticise it when it's not doing the job. Period. Does he have the right to criticise us in return? Sure, he has that right, but I reserve the right to retort as I did.

If that's your belief, then I'm not sure what we're disagreeing about. I didn't say fans don't have any right to complain (though I do think any who believe their complaints will have any actual impact are fooling themselves). What I said was that they ought not to be surprised when Lewis fires back in response, which you say here is legitimate for him to do.

And I don't think we are disagreeing really. He is free to respond as well. I may find it a little thinned skinned for a professional NFL coach, but he can respond. My only dog in this fight is what I took as your implication that we are disloyal to ML if we give him the F'U. I don't give my loyalties to a coach or to a player. It's the team. In sports, there are rare exceptions to that rule, of course, like a Hank Aaron or Johnny Unitas, but not ML.

[TippCityRick]

Ya'll can FU Marvin all you want, but the only response is with a decrease in the amount of $ spent. That 's the only currency that Mike Brown understands and he's the one who ultimatly makes the decisions down there.

I'm a season ticket holder and will be in attendance on Sunday. Haven't decided if I'm wearing my colors for the game (and no, I won't be in lite blue). What I do know is my usual trip to the proshop before the game will not happen. I may buy a bottle of water, but plan on eating before the game. In other words I'm holding back my currency until I see effort on the field.

Last Sunday was abismal on many levels. However the effort put forth reminded me too much of the effort throughout the 90s. I can't and won't supprt that with my $$. I can be just as much a fan sitting on my couch on Sunday afternoon.

[gregstephens]

Ya'll can FU Marvin all you want, but the only response is with a decrease in the amount of $ spent. That 's the only currency that Mike Brown understands and he's the one who ultimatly makes the decisions down there.

I'm a season ticket holder and will be in attendance on Sunday. Haven't decided if I'm wearing my colors for the game (and no, I won't be in lite blue). What I do know is my usual trip to the proshop before the game will not happen. I may buy a bottle of water, but plan on eating before the game. In other words I'm holding back my currency until I see effort on the field.

Last Sunday was abismal on many levels. However the effort put forth reminded me too much of the effort throughout the 90s. I can't and won't supprt that with my $$. I can be just as much a fan sitting on my couch on Sunday afternoon.

That's how I've been the past couple of seasons. I'm not a season ticket holder, but have tried to go to at least two games a year. Not last year, definitely not this year without major changes. Haven't bought new jerseys, although I did take my son to training camp. Haven't cut out the spending completely, but have cut some.

Not sure that's the trick, though. SoP will tell you an NFL owner makes most of his money from things not the team. Television deals perhaps? Licensing agreements? I dunno. Plus, if we make it too unprofitable, he'll wrangle out of that lease and look to leave.

[membengal]

All:

I have gone dumpster diving through the .com archives, and have pulled some quotes from ML press conferences back in the day. My memory was that this current dead-coach-stare that ML has affected (at press conferences at least) hasn't always been there. And, I don't think it has, at least from these two pressers in 2004 (and had in the first month of my joining this fine board):

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=2394

From 9/27/04 press conference after Bengals lost to fall to 1-2 on the season, these quotes from ML:

Q: Being ranked 31st in run defense has to eat at you ...

ML: I don't want to be 31st in anything right now. If you give up 186 yards to Jamal (Lewis) and the yards we did to Curtis (Martin), you're going to be down near the bottom of the league. It came down to not making tackles, and you give up big plays when you do that. It is not acceptable, we must get it corrected and make plays. It is disappointing and we must get guys on the ground.

Q: Baltimore obviously is a team that takes advantage of opportunities ...

ML: They take advantage of opportunities and field position. We had a lack of effort on punt coverage. We had guys looking for someone else to step up and make plays. That is what is disappointing to me. Our guys fought to the end, but their were plays that we took a snap off and lost focus on the target. We did not step up and make plays ourselves, and we will get better at that.

Q: When you watch the film, and guys aren't making tackles, is it a question of talent, or is it lack of effort due to the fact that many times guys were in the right gaps?

ML: Talent would be that you are getting blocked. A little of it is want and desire. We have to take a critical look at that. When you are in position and don't bring a guy down, you are telling me something, too.

Still plenty of coach-speak there, but also, as a fan, we got the sense that ML knew exactly what the issues were and that he was on it. For some reason, that part of ML is missing from the pressers of late, and was certainly missing from the ones on Monday and Wednesday. The 2004 ML exuded that he and the team were accountable to each other and to the fans. And, even after a loss, that was a great message to hear and to know.

Here's the press conference after they fell to 1-3 in '04 with a loss to Pittsburgh:

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=2412

An excerpt:

"Q: Does the fan criticism of being one and three bother you with the expectations so high?

ML: We are one and three, and I am disappointed."

Fair enough. A simple statement, and well received.

I just am unsure where that ML has gone, and I want that ML back, that's all. While he never was a guy who just spewed verbiage at pressers (which I actually support), he DID say enough that you knew that he had a firm command on the issues. That ML is different from this ML. And I liked that ML as coach a lot better.

[gregstephens]

All:

I have gone dumpster diving through the .com archives, and have pulled some quotes from ML press conferences back in the day. My memory was that this current dead-coach-stare that ML has affected (at press conferences at least) hasn't always been there. And, I don't think it has, at least from these two pressers in 2004 (and had in the first month of my joining this fine board):

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=2394

From 9/27/04 press conference after Bengals lost to fall to 1-2 on the season, these quotes from ML:

Q: Being ranked 31st in run defense has to eat at you ...

ML: I don't want to be 31st in anything right now. If you give up 186 yards to Jamal (Lewis) and the yards we did to Curtis (Martin), you're going to be down near the bottom of the league. It came down to not making tackles, and you give up big plays when you do that. It is not acceptable, we must get it corrected and make plays. It is disappointing and we must get guys on the ground.

Q: Baltimore obviously is a team that takes advantage of opportunities ...

ML: They take advantage of opportunities and field position. We had a lack of effort on punt coverage. We had guys looking for someone else to step up and make plays. That is what is disappointing to me. Our guys fought to the end, but their were plays that we took a snap off and lost focus on the target. We did not step up and make plays ourselves, and we will get better at that.

Q: When you watch the film, and guys aren't making tackles, is it a question of talent, or is it lack of effort due to the fact that many times guys were in the right gaps?

ML: Talent would be that you are getting blocked. A little of it is want and desire. We have to take a critical look at that. When you are in position and don't bring a guy down, you are telling me something, too.

Still plenty of coach-speak there, but also, as a fan, we got the sense that ML knew exactly what the issues were and that he was on it. For some reason, that part of ML is missing from the pressers of late, and was certainly missing from the ones on Monday and Wednesday. The 2004 ML exuded that he and the team were accountable to each other and to the fans. And, even after a loss, that was a great message to hear and to know.

Here's the press conference after they fell to 1-3 in '04 with a loss to Pittsburgh:

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=2412

An excerpt:

"Q: Does the fan criticism of being one and three bother you with the expectations so high?

ML: We are one and three, and I am disappointed."

Fair enough. A simple statement, and well received.

I just am unsure where that ML has gone, and I want that ML back, that's all. While he never was a guy who just spewed verbiage at pressers (which I actually support), he DID say enough that you knew that he had a firm command on the issues. That ML is different from this ML. And I liked that ML as coach a lot better.

Agreed. Totally. I think that's really what we all want. Nothing more.

[TippCityRick]

Not sure that's the trick, though. SoP will tell you an NFL owner makes most of his money from things not the team. Television deals perhaps? Licensing agreements? I dunno. Plus, if we make it too unprofitable, he'll wrangle out of that lease and look to leave.

All I know is I'm turning down the spending. Unlimited resourses I don't possess. As my wife so eloquetly put it late in the game, "your medication (rooting for the Bengals) doesn't seem to be giving you much pleasure right now." She was spot-on in her analysis. Time to make some changes.

[Riagogogoindanati]

I have a feeling that if I put my hand down Marvin's pants, it would be like rubbing two small marbles together.

[gregstephens]

I have a feeling that if I put my hand down Marvin's pants, it would be like rubbing two small marbles together.

And I have a feeling you're the only regular poster on this board that could have said that and gotten away with it. Welcome back, Ria.