Chad 24/7

[HairOnFire]

No you wouldn't. You would have to forfeit all your top draft picks because you won't have salary cap room to sign them. In addition to not being able to add talent through the draft, you would have to cut numerous starters currently on the team, all withou any hope of filling all the holes. It would be a disastrous decision and would set this franchise back years and end any hope you ever have of winning a championship with Carson Palmer.

I disagree, and strongly. Any trade of Chad Johnson now would essentially end any hope the Bengals have for a winning season this year....which may have been unlikely under the best circumstances. All of which explains very well why they're unwilling to embrace the idea of a trade. However, if they conclude that Chad will be too big of a problem, or the trade compensation is simply too much to reject, the Bengals may find themselves accepting their fate and if so....quickly embracing the idea of blowing this thing up in a very big way. And that means a greater number of veteran cuts to make room for Chad's cap hit, and the salary hit that comes with an additional 1st round pick. But there would be no need or incentive to forfeit the top draft picks.

[JoePong]

Ok. Just as long as people realize the trading chad would result in blowing the whole thing up. In addition to having to find replacements for chad and henry, we have to replace TJ after this season since he will be gone. I don't think it's a good idea to leave carson with no WRs.

This is why you take the best player available when you draft. People have been against us taking a WR high in recent years because we have chad and tj and henry. Well, look at the situation now. You never pass on superior talent to fill a need.

[HairOnFire]

In addition, there's a possibility a trade could still be completed on draft day if a player the Bengals truly covet is still available when the Redskins are on the clock at #21.

You know, after posting the above I remembered reading the following....as well as Mortenson's claim that the Redskins trade offer was made on Sunday. Coincidence? Or do the Bengals think Groves might be available at #46?

Bengals | Team to meet with Groves Published Sun Apr 6 7:00:00 p.m. ET 2008

(KFFL) Matt Maiocco, of The Santa Rosa Press Democrat, reports the Cincinnati Bengals will meet with University of Auburn DL Quentin Groves, according to Sean Kiernan of Impact Sports.

[Adam-Whodey]

Ok. Just as long as people realize the trading chad would result in blowing the whole thing up. In addition to having to find replacements for chad and henry, we have to replace TJ after this season since he will be gone. I don't think it's a good idea to leave carson with no WRs.

This is why you take the best player available when you draft. People have been against us taking a WR high in recent years because we have chad and tj and henry. Well, look at the situation now. You never pass on superior talent to fill a need.

Why wouldn't we franchise tag TJ next year?

[HoosierCat]

No you wouldn't. You would have to forfeit all your top draft picks because you won't have salary cap room to sign them. In addition to not being able to add talent through the draft, you would have to cut numerous starters currently on the team, all withou any hope of filling all the holes. It would be a disastrous decision and would set this franchise back years and end any hope you ever have of winning a championship with Carson Palmer.

I disagree, and strongly. Any trade of Chad Johnson now would essentially end any hope the Bengals have for a winning season this year....which may have been unlikely under the best circumstances. All of which explains very well why they're unwilling to embrace the idea of a trade. However, if they conclude that Chad will be too big of a problem, or the trade compensation is simply too much to reject, the Bengals may find themselves accepting their fate and if so....quickly embracing the idea of blowing this thing up in a very big way. And that means a greater number of veteran cuts to make room for Chad's cap hit, and the salary hit that comes with an additional 1st round pick. But there would be no need or incentive to forfeit the top draft picks.

You wouldn't have to blow things up, although that isn't necessarily a bad idea. If Chad stays, his cap number is about $6 million. If he's traded, his cap number is $8 million. So the net effect is "just" a $2 million increase in the cap hit.

The cap hit involved in signing, say, the 21st pick should be about $2 million as well. So were the Bengals to have taken the DC deal, they would need to find about $4 million in space. You could get that just by getting a long-term deal with Stacy.

Also, the espn.com story on the Bengals' rejecting the trade quotes an unnamed NFL GM as saying that they could split the $8 million hit into two $4 million chunks in 2008 and 2009. I knew you could do that when you cut players; the revised CBA allows teams to designate up to two cuts per year as "post-June-1" cuts before its actually June. I didn't know they could do that for trades as well, but I have to assume the GM knows what he's talking about. In that case, trading Chad would actually free up $2 million in cap space -- just what you would need to sign Mr. 21.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

So the Bengals are the only team ever to have two 1st round picks?

You use that extra 1st rounder for leverage in acquiring picks next year, or a player, and parlay it into adding quality players to your team, if there's no way you can fit the $ under your cap. You pick up an additional 2nd with it and a player etc.., there are options and God forbid the Bengals do anything creative. You can also move UP in the 1st round to get the player you want with it, and add an additional 2nd possibly. It gives them LEVERAGE to replace Chad's talent.

You can split Chad's cap hit up and only take a $4mm hit this year.

Plus you lose his base salary of $2mm right? (if i'm correct) so really wouldn't they only be losing $2mm this year then? With a $100mm+ salary cap, why is that such a big concern?

You aren't "blowing it all up" by trading Chad - he ISN'T GOING TO PLAY ANY WAYS - so why keep kidding yourself he will? And even if he does, is he really worth it at this point?

Andrews' cap hit is just an example of the poor roster and cap management that holds them back from winning every year.

You guys sit here and defend everything they do, and I show you a team that hasn't gotten over .500 the last two seasons with a top 5 QB.

[walzav29]

The team can blow it up, but still make the playoffs because of Carson. I the cancer is traded, the picks can be used on RB, DE, Tackle, and add alot of depth. The team needs to become a running team. If Chad stays that will accomplish nothing.

[bengalsfansince68]

The team needs to become a running team.

Thanks Walz.

The rush game is the crux of it all that our fans can't seem to grasp.

It is far, far more important than our drama queen/diva can ever be.

[BengalszoneBilly]

He's not going to sit. Write it down. If he isn't dealt, he isn't going to sit out, and the Bengals aren't going to keep him on the sidelines.

I believe this, and I believe the Bengals do too.

[walzav29]

I know they can make him play. He won't miss a game check, but I don't see how you can build a Superbowl winning team with the circus that will be created. I can only think of T.O. getting benched for the rest of that season. They could fill a ton of holes. Imagine Ellis, Groves, K. Smtih? It has to get done.

[bengalsfansince68]

He won't miss a game check, but I don't see how you can build a Superbowl winning team with the circus that will be created.

A circus that has already been created. That ship has sailed and if it were my team, and he held out of camp, I'd damned sure find a way to cost him as many checks as possible.

Phuck oucho stinko.

Rip his eyes out and piss in his dead skull!!

Phucking ass ramming rectal wart.

Sorry guys, but I have to vent my anger at this punk.

[COB]

And I disagree with your premise that "the negative intangibles Chad so heartily brings to the table outweigh his stats." This team has had disgruntled players before, and in the end they always show up and produce. Even if all we get is the same kind of disinterested play we got from him last year, that's still better than half the No. 1 wideouts in the league do when they're trying.

In the end they always show up and produce. Numbers. But Chad produces some other things that aren't too attractive. Like showing the rest of the team that Bengals coaches and front office folks aren't worthy of respect. Like showing that selfishness is ok as long as you put up the numbers. I want that corporate culture flushed out of the Bengals, starting with Turdo Cinco.

Even though the effect that Chad's selfish, immature behavior has on a team is not quantifiable like yards gained or tackles, I still think it is very important. Likewise the effect a real leader has on a team can't be measured by any scale, but it is nonetheless very important.

Bill Parcells would have taken that offer. Tony Dungy would have taken that offer. Mike Ditka would have taken that offer. They've all won Super Bowls.

I'm now hoping for a draft day deal, also known as two birds in the bush.

[Kazkal]

With the thought Chad is Bluffing and that he won't actually sit out...This Is what i'm worried about if we take a stand because what happens if he does show up for practice and willing to play on game day but he's not going to play at 100% or what happens if he starts pulling stuff on purpose to hurt the team ala dropping a pass...this is why well I've always have liked chad would just take redskins best offer come draft day and trade him.....

[Jet23]

The good news is that with all of the pre-draft coverage, there will be no shortage of people explaining how Mike Brown can go about getting this done, while improving the team in the process. He needs only to tune in to ESPN. But let's face it, if it takes one ounce of creativity Mike Brown will have no part of it. He will NOT mortgage the future, even if it means saving the present. I do not blame Mike Brown for the actions of Chad Johnson. I do, however, blame him and his band of merry morons for getting themselves in a situation where they have limited options. For example, you franchise tag an average OL. Are you freaking kidding me? Can we possibly throw any more money at the offensive line in an attempt to cover up the fact that the OL coach is absolutely inadequate?

I'm sorry, but I have no confidence that Mike Brown will captain this situation into anything other than a complete ship wreck.

[HoosierCat]

In the end they always show up and produce. Numbers. But Chad produces some other things that aren't too attractive. Like showing the rest of the team that Bengals coaches and front office folks aren't worthy of respect. Like showing that selfishness is ok as long as you put up the numbers. I want that corporate culture flushed out of the Bengals, starting with Turdo Cinco.

I would say that it has been. Marvin flushed that out when he turned over most of the roster in his first two years, finishing the job by shipping Dillon to NE. What Chad is doing isn't any different from what a dozen other players (the latest being Boldin) are doing around the league. It's just our misfortune that we have the biggest (and loudest) clown among the lot.

I'm sorry, but I have no confidence that Mike Brown will captain this situation into anything other than a complete ship wreck.

Fair enough, but consider this. If the Bengals had taken the DC deal of a 1 this year and a 3 next year, people would be pointing at what the Vikes just gave up for Jared Allen -- a 1, two 3's, and swapping their higher 6th for KC's lower one, all this year -- and talking about how Snyderbrenner took Mikey Boy to the cleaners.

[BengalByTheBay]

In the end they always show up and produce. Numbers. But Chad produces some other things that aren't too attractive. Like showing the rest of the team that Bengals coaches and front office folks aren't worthy of respect. Like showing that selfishness is ok as long as you put up the numbers. I want that corporate culture flushed out of the Bengals, starting with Turdo Cinco.

I would say that it has been. Marvin flushed that out when he turned over most of the roster in his first two years, finishing the job by shipping Dillon to NE. What Chad is doing isn't any different from what a dozen other players (the latest being Boldin) are doing around the league. It's just our misfortune that we have the biggest (and loudest) clown among the lot.

I'm sorry, but I have no confidence that Mike Brown will captain this situation into anything other than a complete ship wreck.

Fair enough, but consider this. If the Bengals had taken the DC deal of a 1 this year and a 3 next year, people would be pointing at what the Vikes just gave up for Jared Allen -- a 1, two 3's, and swapping their higher 6th for KC's lower one, all this year -- and talking about how Snyderbrenner took Mikey Boy to the cleaners.

Yup...this happens on every team to some degree. That we have the guy who lives to get the camera on him just makes it more obvious. Not to mention the fact that he's good. If he caught 60 balls for 900 yards each of the last 5 years there would be less interest in his show right now. It's kind of a perfect storm of factors that gets it to this level, including the advice from his agent in the mix. It's not like this is some bizarre scenario that only occurred because Mike Brown is a moron. It's happened to plenty of teams and some, like the Bucs with Keyshawn, took a relatively hard line as well.

[JoePong]

Ok. Just as long as people realize the trading chad would result in blowing the whole thing up. In addition to having to find replacements for chad and henry, we have to replace TJ after this season since he will be gone. I don't think it's a good idea to leave carson with no WRs.

This is why you take the best player available when you draft. People have been against us taking a WR high in recent years because we have chad and tj and henry. Well, look at the situation now. You never pass on superior talent to fill a need.

Why wouldn't we franchise tag TJ next year?

TJ getting the franchise tag? Please. One, he's not worth it. Two, we won't be able to afford it if we do some of the things proposed by people on this board.

[HoosierCat]

'Skins still coming...

Redskins Are Pursuing C. Johnson

By Jason La Canfora and Jason Reid

Washington Post Staff Writers

Wednesday, April 23, 2008; Page E01

The Washington Redskins, who repeatedly have said they want to emphasize the draft over acquiring high-profile stars, continue to pursue trading their first-round pick for Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver Chad Johnson, sources said yesterday.

Full story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8042203226.html

[CJBestInAFC]

How about their first this year, Redskins that is, and their first and second next year for CJ? I think that is a no brainer if you are the Bengals. It will hurt this coming year, but I think Washington's pick is going to pretty high next year considering the teams they have to play this coming year in their division. They easily could have the worst record in the division.

[HoosierCat]

How about their first this year, Redskins that is, and their first and second next year for CJ? I think that is a no brainer if you are the Bengals.

I would say so, too, but IMO not even Dan Snyder is that crazy.

I wouldn't be surprised if all it took was the addition of one of DC's two third-rounders to close the deal come Saturday. That would give the Bengals 2 1sts, a 2nd, and 3 3rds -- 6 top 100 picks.

[NJ29]

TJ getting the franchise tag? Please. One, he's not worth it. Two, we won't be able to afford it if we do some of the things proposed by people on this board.

Not be able to afford it? Maybe. But saying TJ isn't worth the franchise tag is slightly retarded, IMO.

I would say so, too, but IMO not even Dan Snyder is that crazy.

I think you underestimate him.

[sparky151]

I'd take Washington's first rounders this year and next for Chad. I'd also ask him to repay some of his 3rd contract's signing bonus since he'd still have been on his 2nd contract for last year. Just to spite Rosenhaus and Chad. Let them try to bargain it out of Snyder.

It would be preferable to do the deal before or early in the draft. If we do it on Friday, we'd be in a position to outbid NO in moving up for Ellis. NO is clearly looking to move up for Dorsey which is fine since they're going into a range he'd be picked at anyway. We want to make sure they don't move a shorter distance and settle for Ellis. Right now I'd imagine we could go from 9 to 5 for our 3rd round pick. That would force NO to go to 3 or 4 just to get Ellis if Saint Louis or Atlanta takes Dorsey. I doubt they'd do that since it would foreclose their trade for Shockey and they could get a good CB at 10 anyway.

[NJ29]

I think if we got a first rounder from Washington, I'd be content to sit at 9, and if Ellis isn't there, take two impact players. I'd love to have Rivers (and even McKelvin, as ridiculous as that might sound), and a guy that they really like at 21 like Groves or Kelly. Hell, imagine if we got Ellis, and Rivers somehow fell to 21. Woah.

[HoosierCat]

TJ getting the franchise tag? Please. One, he's not worth it. Two, we won't be able to afford it if we do some of the things proposed by people on this board.

Not be able to afford it? Maybe. But saying TJ isn't worth the franchise tag is slightly retarded, IMO.

We could afford it. It's just a quick back-of-the-napkin calculation, but looking at guys who will be FAs next year (and thus their contracts come off the books) the Bengals should be (very roughly) $27 million under the cap. And that doesn't include any rise in the cap, which will be about $7-8 million probably, or any money recovered from the retiring David Pollack (another $1.5 million?). That puts us in the $35 million under neighborhood. And if they trade Chad and take the whole hit in 2007, that should free up more than $6 million more in '09.

[derekshank]

I could see Chad being a big distraction... but I don't see him getting on the field and not trying. He's got a lot of pride in the way he plays football, he wants to beat CB's... and ultimately, going out and not playing hard hurts his chances of going to another team. We all know Chad only cares about Chad... so if nothing else, he'll play just to keep his stock up.

That said... trade his ass.