TJ-Yes + Chad-No = Success?

[DDOGG]

If Chad really does leave, will Houshmandzadeh be able to take the team, really by himself?

And Im saying by himself because Chris Henry will probably be arrested again...

[711chad]

no tj wont be able to do it by himself cuz he will be double maybe even tripled...steve smith already proved he couldnt do it by himself...happy or not chad will produce let him vent but he will be in cinci producing at the end of the day

[combatbengal]

I think TJ is better then Chad, but he can't do it all himself. Bottom line, Chad misses work-outs, practices, games etc, we just take money away from him. It's all about the money and when his pay keeps getting cut for non-compliance with the contract, he'll come around.

[JoePong]

It would be so much fun watching this pass offense average 3 yards per pass, and TJ blowing up out of frustration becasue he can't shake the double teams.

[BengalszoneBilly]

It would be so much fun watching this pass offense average 3 yards per pass, and TJ blowing up out of frustration becasue he can't shake the double teams.

God...I hate it when you have a point.

[bryce40]

No, you have to have a decent 2nd option for receiver no matter if it is a TE, or WR, no player can do it themselves. I think if Chris Henry can keep from getting suspended and continue to prove he could be a solid #2 with Housh a #1. Then yes Housh-Chad=success.

[JoePong]

Sorry, but his pass offense would scare nobody if it was TJ without Chad. It would be painful to watch.

[chrishcovga]

TJ, not being there isn't a shock. He doesn't always make it anyways preferring to work out in California most years anyways.

Trust Me, T.J. doesn't want Chad to go anywhere! Chad and T.J. are a great combination, that has allowed T.J. to flourish as a true # 2, so like Chad said last nite..

It's all about the Money !!

and T.J. Housh-mah-zoed, won't get the big bucks without Chad !!

Since Cincinnati doesn't have a G.M., I'd look at it like this...... If I trade Chad, I salary CRAP, the team for 2 years, I lose a number one wideout and my # 2 guy plays and deserves the 5 years 35.5 million , but why would I pay him that much when his production is obviously going to tank because he's a good receiver, but not an elite athlete, and he will struggle now being the focus of the offense...

I.E...... Muhsin Muhammad

I.E...... Peerless Price

I.E...... any other free agent wide reciever that lost his number one or became a number one, and their production was never equalled to their salary !

- So let's concentrate on the Draft peoples, because maybe T.J. Is going to be spending time with his good 'ol buddy Chad and convince him the truth,.... I NEED YOU TO GET PAID BUDDY !!

[711chad]

it would defently be horrible to watch tj without chad

[WhoDey93285]

TJ-Great 2nd option, possession reciever.

He would be terrible as a first option without Chad. If we could trust Henry to stay out of trouble, then I might change my tune. But if Chad goes, our offense suffers terribly.

[CarsonDaMan]

TJ-Great 2nd option, possession reciever.

He would be terrible as a first option without Chad. If we could trust Henry to stay out of trouble, then I might change my tune. But if Chad goes, our offense suffers terribly.

TJ could be a good first option. He's more in the mold of a Hines Ward as far as his receiving ability goes. You wont get many 50 yard TD's out of him but you'll still get 100 catches and 10 td's with Carson throwing to him. The offense wouldn't be as explosive without Chad here of course but I really don't think it would hurt what TJ does in any way.

[kingwilly]

Sorry, but his pass offense would scare nobody if it was TJ without Chad. It would be painful to watch.

1st, Carson is what teams fear. CJ is just a WR. he can only get to 6-10 balls a game. Carson makes the O work.

You are also obviously not factoring Henry. A full, non-convict offseason may be a bit hopeful but Henry is a proven playmaker. If he can stay on the feild, he will have 60-80 catches.

Also, if there is no CJ and should we have Utecht, it gives Carson a Heath Miller/Todd Heap type weapon, just need Brat to recognize the value of the underneath outlet and TE Screen.

So, it is not TJ they will directly fear, even though he is still would likely be Carson's favortie target in a post-CJ O. It will be Carson and the many weapons at his disposal.

To be honest, I think teams count on CJ for one or two explosive plays and then vapor for long stretches. Yes, they double him but once he knows he's doubled, he shuts it down and they cancel out. So, the prssure goes back to guys like TJ and Henry to keep making plays. What changes, really, if Chad leaves? not too much

[whodeynation]

Let's put all of this into perspective. Each Bengals receiver has a different set of tools. Here is my interpretation of them;

TJ is kinda slow, but fearless. Runs decent routes. Understands seams. He'll go over the middle, and will win about half of his jump balls. A possession type receiver. When he runs out of the slot, he usually has LB/Safety over under coverage... the kind he can beat. Does not match up well on CB's one on one at the X or Z. Can't outrun anyone. His routes at the X or Z are almost always slants, comebacks, digs or crosses where he can use his body to pick the defender. He's only fair on sideline patterns.

Henry is a strider. Long strides give him sneaky speed. He is long and lean. Can outrun DB's but only on long vertical routes. Runs mediocre routes. Gets easily thrown off in bump and run. Strictly Z or motion receiver. Best at vertical routes. Not a physical receiver. Will win most jump balls. Is poor at adjusting to the ball in the air. Has stiff hips and no suddenness. His arms shrink in traffic and when he hears footsteps. Has too many drops. Will probably never be a #1 type receiver.

Chad has moves and speed. Shakes defenders with a combination of quickness, suddenness and burst speed. His suddenness makes double coverage a necessity. Runs very good routes. Has the acrobatic athleticism to go get the ball. The ultimate receiver at adjusting to the ball in flight. Best on sideline and vertical routes. Poor blocker. His arms shrink in traffic and when he hears footsteps. Does not like getting hit. YAC sucks when the defender is in position. Will win some bump balls.

IMHO the problems start when you start taking individual pieces out of the equation. Henry will probably never be an every down or an X receiver. The routes he is effective at are too limiting. He has too many drops, and won't go get the poor throw. Henry will only be in the game on nickel or dime coverage. If you take Chad out of the mix, TJ will get DB coverage. His tools are also too limiting to be a #1. You know what kind of routes he'll run. He probably gets 2 or 3 vertical routes a season, and never in double coverage. Chad needs a possession type receiver to keep zone coverage honest. When you sprinkle Utecht in there, he gives you a different Y look than TJ. A scary set would feature all of them with an empty backfield. I kinda doubt that Utecht and TJ would be on the field a lot together, and if they are, Henry most likely won't be.

If you let Chad walk, you need a true #1 receiver in the draft. Someone who can create separation, and limit the drops. Someone who can keep the safety honest, and adjust to the ball. It also takes around two years to plug a rookie into that role. It might make sense to draft a guy in round 2 or 3, and maybe trade for a fringe #1. Without a receiver who can separate, TJ, Henry and Utecht are gonna hate the coverage... Chad makes each of them better, and vice versa.

[membengal]

It would be so much fun watching this pass offense average 3 yards per pass, and TJ blowing up out of frustration becasue he can't shake the double teams.

God...I hate it when you have a point.

And yet we shouldn't draft a WR in April?

[HoosierCat]

Let's put all of this into perspective. Each Bengals receiver has a different set of tools. Here is my interpretation of them;

Excellent post, sir. And your conclusion is dead-on: without Chad, we would need to find a new No. 1. And the most likely place IMO would end up being the first round next month, a prospect few seem to welcome

[TJJackson]

without Chad, we would need to find a new No. 1. And the most likely place IMO would end up being the first round next month, a prospect few seem to welcome

Add me to the list of folks who WOULD welcome it - this despite being dead set against it as recently as a week or less ago.

That said, let me add that I don't think any receivers are good enough to merit election at 9, really, so I'd prefer a trade down if we go this route, picking up a mid 1 plus either a 2 this year or a 1 next year in the process

[ShulaSteakhouse]

TJ, not being there isn't a shock. He doesn't always make it anyways preferring to work out in California most years anyways.

- So let's concentrate on the Draft peoples, because maybe T.J. Is going to be spending time with his good 'ol buddy Chad and convince him the truth,.... I NEED YOU TO GET PAID BUDDY !!

I will just say that those two wanting new deals is ridiculous and I don't think that has everything to do with it, if anything.

[HairOnFire]

Excellent post, sir.

Agreed.

And your conclusion is dead-on: without Chad, we would need to find a new No. 1. And the most likely place IMO would end up being the first round next month, a prospect few seem to welcome

Speaking only for myself I don't welcome the idea because under normal circumstances it wouldn't be considered a need. And because it's not a true need the Bengals would and should be able to address more pressing problems. Under those circumstances we'd be talking about the team upgrading positions of weakness instead of drafting replacements for current Pro Bowl players.

However, the Bengals best wideout also happens to be a raging douchebag, and that sad realization undermines the front offices previous moves. Normally locking up an outstanding player long-term for very reasonable money is a no-brainer. However, when you're dealing with a no-brainer like Chad the normal rules no longer apply.

In the end I'm quickly reminded of the reaction to Hobson's first mock draft...where he suggested Malcolm Kelly be the choice at #9. And as I said then, it's a perfectly reasonable idea only if you're looking to replace Chad next season. And that's an idea I welcome more and more with each passing day.

[agreen_112]

With - Chad, we better find another #1. TJ is NOT that guy... So NO, - Chad does not = success without another #1 top 5, all pro WR replacement.

[membengal]

Say! People coming around to going heavy in the first day on offense! (which is what a 1st round receiver would probably mean)

Nice to not be so lonely on this island (just me and Hoosier, for a long time). In a perfect world, WR would not be in the list of possible needs for rounds 1 or 2. In this world, where CJ continues his prolonged tantrum, and where we have a qb entering his prime and are under the gun not to f**k that up, it has to be under serious consideration.

[HairOnFire]

In a perfect world, WR would not be in the list of possible needs for rounds 1 or 2. In this world, where CJ continues his prolonged tantrum, and where we have a qb entering his prime and are under the gun not to f**k that up, it has to be under serious consideration.

How does the saying go? Adapt or die.

Back in the final weeks of the regular season when the idea of drafting a wideout in the first two rounds was first put forward iw was said to be something that needed to be considered due to the respective ages of Chad and TJ. And truth be told if you continued to frame the idea in that manner I'd have no more support for it now than I did then. However, we're now talking about the possible need to replace a WR who is still capable of performing at an elite level simpy because his brain went bad. And that's a different matter altogether.

Frankly, I still hate the idea of ignoring other more pressing needs, but I'm more than willing to acknowledge my desire for a new WR is growing by the day.

I want Chad Johnson off of this team ASAP.

[kingwilly]

I want Chad Johnson off of this team ASAP.

could

not

agree

more

[HoosierCat]

I want Chad Johnson off of this team ASAP.

Y'know, it warms the cockles of my heart to see such strong support for Chad Johnson coming from you.

You want Chad off the team. Chad wants Chad off the team. The two of you, marching together, brothers in arms...it's enough to bring a tear to my eye.

Next thing I know, you'll be wearing a "Free Chad Johnson" t-shirt (OK, maybe that first word won't be "free" but I'm sure it will start with "f").

[membengal]

Well, the age thing remains a concern with me, Hair. But I certainly would not have been pushing for a first round WR if it were just that, instead just for a first day receiver.

Now? With the extent of the tantrum revealed? It definitely pushes it up the priority chain.

[HairOnFire]

Y'know, it warms the cockles of my heart to see such strong support for Chad Johnson coming from you.

You want Chad off the team. Chad wants Chad off the team. The two of you, marching together, brothers in arms...it's enough to bring a tear to my eye.

Next thing I know, you'll be wearing a "Free Chad Johnson" t-shirt (OK, maybe that first word won't be "free" but I'm sure it will start with "f").

Bedwetter.