More questions for Coach Lewis

[Jet23]

That cuts against the "Mike Brown is cheap" thesis that so many on here like to trumpet. You are saying they have not spent it wisely.

I would agree.

For my part, though, I am blaming ML more for that than Mikey B and the clan.

Yes, Mike is cheap - he does not provide his players/coaches with the same amenities as other teams have at their disposal, and yes the dreaded Bubble is a perfect example.

His scouting department is the smallest in the league, and he has no outside-the-family football people with any sort of proven track record. This is a matter of getting off your a$$ and wooing or paying for some personnel and scouting people who can help you.

There isn't one team in this league that would touch Katie, Mike and Troy or Paul Jr., unless they wanted an accountant. None of them have any value because they are terrible at putting a consistently good product on the field on Sundays. They are absolutely miserable, with one of the worst track records in the entire history of professional sports. I am not saying they're bad people, just bad at running the non-business side of a football team.

I don't think there is any grey area there, or room for debate, and the examples I mentioned are all factual.

Finally, Marvin Lewis doesn't decide, I'm betting, who gets re-signed and who doesn't, because the Brown family's model is non-changing and not adaptable. You pay OT's, WR's, QB's, RB's, and more recently, DE's. That's it. And they don't sign expensive or impact Free Agents - ever.

So he is forced to take high risk, high ceiling gambles on defensive players in the draft who fall, because the Bengals' do not do enough personnel wise, to acquire additional draft picks often enough, nor sign proven talent through FA that can have an impact. Instead they fill out their roster with FA and acquire borderline or aged players who are stop gaps.

Beyond that Lewis has a terrible coaching staff, probably the worst in the league outside of Zampese and Bratkowski and Jim Anderson.

Those are the only 3 worth keeping. If Marvin's going to be successful, he needs to spend his time game planning and preparing his players for games. Taking someone who's never been a HC before and asking him to be media relations director, personnel GM, head coach, and advisor etc..., is a bit much. I am not even sure Lewis is a good enough HC at this point regardless. His teams are an embarrassment on Sundays, they play dumb and have no discipline or focus or motivation.

But this seems to be an engrained, constant with this franchise, because they refuse to come out of the dark ages. Marvin Lewis is watching his coaching career go down the drain, like every head coach here before him since Forrest Gregg. I don't know why anyone would take that job here, it's career suicide.

And there you have it. In a nutshell, this is why it is SOP's fault. The success of 2005 was house of cards. Horrible drafts and player decisions have taken their toll. When I call Mike Brown cheap, I am referring to the manner in which he operates his team. Player payroll is only one aspect. My biggest problem is the decisions that are made on talent, particularly the draft. You may as well throw darts against a dart board. How many diamonds in the rough have they found? Don't say TJ, because he just happened to play opposite of Chad on Oregon State. He worked out, Ron Dugans didn't. Remember, Ron Dugans was drafted on the advice of Peter Warrick. How utterly sad is that?

There is no doubt that Marvin energized the team for a period of time. My biggest problem with Marvin is that it appears as if he sold SOP on the idea that he can do it alone. Athough it was probably the reason he was offered the job, he was wrong. Mike Brown has gotten to him. He is done. I have seen that look before. He can not do it all. He needs football people to talk to, not Mikey's son-in-law. The way the franchise is operated is laughable and it just blows me away that everyone doesn't see that.

Lastly, I blame Mike Brown, because who the he!! will want the job now? Can anyone dispute that Cincinnati's HC position is the 32nd most desirable job? Thanks Mike. And the sheep just keep on coming...

[futurebengal08]

Well hey at least Justin Smith is playing up to his contract. Honestly, I don't think that any NFL team could put him to good use and he would be a #2 option anywhere. But here in the Twilight Zone he gets the average salary of the top 5 defensive ends in the league. Jason Taylor, Dwight Freeney, Justin Smith, Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Will Smith, Jevon Kearse... can anyone tell me which one doesn't fit? The entire strategy of building through the draft should theoretically work as long as Forrest Gumpp isn't in there making the decisions. Heads should roll after this season, and my head's gonna roll if we don't sign an impact defensive free agent

[COB]

Finally, Marvin Lewis doesn't decide, I'm betting, who gets re-signed and who doesn't, because the Brown family's model is non-changing and not adaptable. You pay OT's, WR's, QB's, RB's, and more recently, DE's. That's it. And they don't sign expensive or impact Free Agents - ever.

I like reading your stuff Shula, but I disagree with this. I don't believe that Brown's future acts can strictly be predicted by his past actions.

You are absolutely right, his goal is to run a profitable organization. But he has made the connection between winning and profitability. He is trying to win. And he has changed recently. He's spent money like he never would have ten years ago.

If he has changed in regards to something like spending millions, it's not a stretch to believe he'll change regarding how personnel are selected, who gets input on it, etc. Based on the look on Marvin's face lately, I suspect he'll be letting his boss know his thoughts on personnel.

You are dead right about the practice bubble. We need one. I work outside about a third of the time, and I can tell you from personal experience that a day in low 40s and wind will absolutely wear you out. I don't know why, but I'm exhausted after a day working outside in cold weather, not a little more tired than usual, I'm frickin' spent. (True, I'm 45, but it wore me out when I was 30, too.) Secondly, if we want to attract top flight free agents and coaches, we need the amenities other teams have. We are competing for those folks and we need to let them know they won't be freezing their asses off if they come to Cincinnati.

[volcom69]

Isnt it so sad that us as fans have to resort to this all we ask for is a winning team a team that will go out and compete week in and week out no matter how injured or tired they really are. We ask that u bring in a coach that will get his players to play with heart and will get them ready for the big games. Just for once here please give the fans something to cheer about and wake up on Mondays or Tuesday mornings and be able to brag about there team and what a great win they had. This team is pathetic and always will be pathetic until somebody decides to wanna do something about it.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Finally, Marvin Lewis doesn't decide, I'm betting, who gets re-signed and who doesn't, because the Brown family's model is non-changing and not adaptable. You pay OT's, WR's, QB's, RB's, and more recently, DE's. That's it. And they don't sign expensive or impact Free Agents - ever.

I like reading your stuff Shula, but I disagree with this. I don't believe that Brown's future acts can strictly be predicted by his past actions.

You are absolutely right, his goal is to run a profitable organization. But he has made the connection between winning and profitability. He is trying to win. And he has changed recently. He's spent money like he never would have ten years ago.

If he has changed in regards to something like spending millions, it's not a stretch to believe he'll change regarding how personnel are selected, who gets input on it, etc. Based on the look on Marvin's face lately, I suspect he'll be letting his boss know his thoughts on personnel.

You are dead right about the practice bubble. We need one. I work outside about a third of the time, and I can tell you from personal experience that a day in low 40s and wind will absolutely wear you out. I don't know why, but I'm exhausted after a day working outside in cold weather, not a little more tired than usual, I'm frickin' spent. (True, I'm 45, but it wore me out when I was 30, too.) Secondly, if we want to attract top flight free agents and coaches, we need the amenities other teams have. We are competing for those folks and we need to let them know they won't be freezing their asses off if they come to Cincinnati.

Good enough, although I'm not sure why you think Brown isn't predictable. Of course, there's always a chance he could change, but I'm afraid he will always hold on to his father's out-dated mafia familiy advice (never give someone outside of the familiy too much power).

And thanks for acknowledging the fact that the practice bubble is about more than what Hair thinks is a day you can practice outside or not. It's about off-season work, simulating road games, attracting FA's, saving your players for Sunday, having more productive walk throughs and field work etc.., etc.., And it's a puny investment relatively speaking.

It's Mike Brown being cheap and not doing enough to win. He just doesn't and won't I'm guessing (unless someone else pays for it). That's the way it is, that's why I don't give the Bengals' a dime for tickets or merchandise any longer. And it's why they have been to one playoff game in what will be 17 years.

I have no interest in supporting a franchise that doesn't try hard enough. I can't support that at all.

Everything else is just excuses and bull@hit.

[Jet23]

For those that are keeping score:

Shula = 30

Hair = Love

[Bengals1]

I'm not interested in the Mike B boogeyman, shulasteak, but more interested in what Marvin Lewis is going to do to fix things, if he is indeed going to helm this ship of fools into the foreseeable future...

The answer to your question sadly enough is nothing. There's virtually nothing Marvin Lewis can do under the current ownership.

Anyone here can take the ESPN or Sporting News draft guide and do as good a job as our scouting dept. has. Picking in the first 10, as we most surely will next April, is going to be a no brainer. Simply take out your Avalon's Draft Guide and find the best DE, DT or OLB left on the board (There should be plenty when we come up at 5 or 6) and write his name down on a slip of paper and send it up.

Then repeat for the 2nd round and go home. See? wasn't that easy?

And it doesn't really matter who we chose 'cause they're either going to be injured or in jail by the Sept. opener anyway. Or, if by some minor miracle they actuall make it intact to the season opener they'll no doubt be looked upon 3 or 4 years down the line as a career underachiever.

We won't sign any big ticket free agents, we won't make any meaningful trades, and we'll most likely screw up most of our draft choices....again.

Unless and until SoP passes on or becomes too physically infirm to run the club this is our future Bungles fans.

Yes, it's sad, yes it's depressing, yes it's maddening, but there you have it. It's just become a circumstance of waiting SoP out. God forbid any of our members are much over 50, I don't give you a good chance of living long enough to see it.

[membengal]

And I firmly disagree with the assertion that you can take a draft guide and do as good a job as the Bengals' scouting department.

There is plenty of talent here. Hell, there was when Lewis took over.

Lewis is coaching it for s**t.

Stop blaming Mike Brown for Lewis' failures.

[Bengals1]

And I firmly disagree with the assertion that you can take a draft guide and do as good a job as the Bengals' scouting department.

There is plenty of talent here. Hell, there was when Lewis took over.

Lewis is coaching it for s**t.

Stop blaming Mike Brown for Lewis' failures.

Sorry membengal, I just don't agree. Name one single starter on our defense that would start for either NE, Pitt, Indy or NYG or Dallas?

[membengal]

Justin Smith. Robert Geathers. Leon Hall. Jonathan Joseph. Landon Johnson.

I wonder about Domato Peko on your list. When he's healthy, Ahmad Brooks.

Don't mix-up the fact that the scheme and coaching is atrocious with the fact that those guys have genuine talent. It is not maxmimized here. At all.

You don't think Geathers would be a monster in the above systems? A DE/LB hybrid who can move like he does? You don't think coaches with their heads out of their asses would know how to make him a wrecking ball force on the field? Smith, with help, is a very good defensive end. He would play for those teams. And be good. Hall and Joseph are young, but plenty talented. There is room for them on any team. Coach them up. Other teams have coaches who can help players get better and reach their potential. The Bengals apparently do not, at least not defensive coaches. I want some who can.

None of that has anything to do with Mike Brown. It has everything to do with alleged defensive genius Marvin Lewis failing in a way that makes other people's failures seem like successes in comparison.

Really, stop the Mike Brown bashing. It's unseemly. And misplaced. And too easy. You know why this team went from 2-14 to 8-8? Not because Mike Brown all of a sudden got smart in 2003 in terms of personnel, but instead because Lewis at that point was coaching extremely effectively. You know why this team has fallen off? Not because Mike Brown is dumb again, but instead because Lewis is getting his ass handed to him on a weekly basis by the other team's head coach.

No, I prefer to look directly at what the issue is. It's Lewis. Can he be better? God, I hope so. Because Brown will not fire him. But if Lewis has lost his fire/drive/whatever, then this team is f**ked.

[HoosierCat]

You know why this team went from 2-14 to 8-8? Not because Mike Brown all of a sudden got smart in 2003 in terms of personnel, but instead because Lewis at that point was coaching extremely effectively. You know why this team has fallen off? Not because Mike Brown is dumb again, but instead because Lewis is getting his ass handed to him on a weekly basis by the other team's head coach.

The team went from 2-14 to 8-8 because an offense largely assembled by Coslet and Lebeau finally came together. The reason it didn't do better than 8-8? The D stunk. There has never been a point in five years where Marvin or any of his defensive coordinators or assistants were coaching at a high level. Even in 2005 the D was bad, they were just fortunate to play a lot of terrible teams with terrible QBs and grab an outsized number of picks. Coaching hasn't fallen off defensively, it was never there.

[membengal]

Fair enough. But that ain't on Brown. That's on Lewis.

I think the defensive ranking for this team in 2001 wasn't half bad. There has been talent available, it has just not been coached. That's on Lewis. All on Lewis. Lewis, Lewis, Lewis.

Lewis.

[HoosierCat]

Fair enough. But that ain't on Brown. That's on Lewis.

I think the defensive ranking for this team in 2001 wasn't half bad. There has been talent available, it has just not been coached. That's on Lewis. All on Lewis. Lewis, Lewis, Lewis.

Lewis.

OK -- but if Lewis isn't getting the job done, can I bash Mike Brown for keeping him around instead of looking for someone better?

Just a little itty-bitty bit?

[membengal]

Sure. That's my issue with Brown at the moment (and always has been). Not the alleged cheapness. The insane loyalty. He will stick with a coach beyond all reason. And in the face of evidence that the coach is not doing his job.

Lewis isn't getting the job done. I think there needs to be a change. Brown disagrees. Life goes on.

But the wailing and gnashing of teeth in here about personnel? I am not buying that the screaming with regard to personnel all of a sudden is back to the Mike B boogeyman. Lewis has had his hand all over this issue. This team is his. He is failing.

That's why I am looking at him.

[Jet23]

Sure. That's my issue with Brown at the moment (and always has been). Not the alleged cheapness. The insane loyalty. He will stick with a coach beyond all reason. And in the face of evidence that the coach is not doing his job.

Lewis isn't getting the job done. I think there needs to be a change. Brown disagrees. Life goes on.

But the wailing and gnashing of teeth in here about personnel? I am not buying that the screaming with regard to personnel all of a sudden is back to the Mike B boogeyman. Lewis has had his hand all over this issue. This team is his. He is failing.

That's why I am looking at him.

At .507 Marvin is still one of the most successful coaches in the history of the Organization (ouch). How's SOP looking there at a whopping .351?

[HoosierCat]

But the wailing and gnashing of teeth in here about personnel? I am not buying that the screaming with regard to personnel all of a sudden is back to the Mike B boogeyman. Lewis has had his hand all over this issue. This team is his.

Yes, it is. But how much of a hand has Brown also had? Again, we're off into the ether, and that's why you hear the complaints about Mike. The bottom line for me is that, as always, there seems to be plenty of blame to go around. It starts with players who can't tackle, goes through coaches who can't coach, and runs right into a FO whose response to a dismal season is a shrug of the shoulders and a remark that maybe they'll get lucky next time out.

[HairOnFire]

And thanks for acknowledging the fact that the practice bubble is about more than what Hair thinks is a day you can practice outside or not. It's about off-season work, simulating road games, attracting FA's, saving your players for Sunday, having more productive walk throughs and field work etc.., etc.., And it's a puny investment relatively speaking.

I find it hilarious how the bubble debate has morphed from desperately needing it due to extreme weather conditions that almost never exist to desperately needing it due to perfectly normal weather conditions.

"They need it for walk throughs on blustery days!!!!"

[Jet23]

And thanks for acknowledging the fact that the practice bubble is about more than what Hair thinks is a day you can practice outside or not. It's about off-season work, simulating road games, attracting FA's, saving your players for Sunday, having more productive walk throughs and field work etc.., etc.., And it's a puny investment relatively speaking.

I find it hilarious how the bubble debate has morphed from desperately needing it due to extreme weather conditions that almost never exist to desperately needing it due to perfectly normal weather conditions.

"They need it for walk throughs on blustery days!!!!"

Why is it that a University with zero money will find a way to make it happen? Is it necessary, no but neither are domed stadiums, but they still exist. Perception is reality and it's just one more things offered by other NFL clubs that can not be enjoyed by current or future Bengals.

UC wants to use it as a recruiting tool. Wouldn't Mike Brown want to do the same? Maybe he can hold out for Miami to get involved, then he can go thirdsies.

[HairOnFire]

Why is it that a University with zero money will find a way to make it happen?

So far, the only thing that has happened is the university has gone begging for financial help that might result in them having a facility the Bengals don't need.

Is it necessary, no but neither are domed stadiums, but they still exist.

Dome stadiums don't exist in Cincinnati. Never have...probably never will. And for good reason.

UC wants to use it as a recruiting tool. Wouldn't Mike Brown want to do the same?

Shouldn't a major university like UC be capable of paying for it's own recruiting tools....especially when you claim the cost is so low?

Maybe he can hold out for Miami to get involved, then he can go thirdsies.

He'd be smart to pass no matter how many colleges get involved if the practice facility being debated is little more than a remotely located structure that barely qualifies as a permanent structure. After all, the Bengals already have an agreement that allows them to use an off-site indoor facility whenever needed.

[Jet23]

Why is it that a University with zero money will find a way to make it happen?

So far, the only thing that has happened is the university has gone begging for financial help that might result in them having a facility the Bengals don't need.

Is it necessary, no but neither are domed stadiums, but they still exist.

Dome stadiums don't exist in Cincinnati. Never have...probably never will. And for good reason.

UC wants to use it as a recruiting tool. Wouldn't Mike Brown want to do the same?

Shouldn't a major university like UC be capable of paying for it's own recruiting tools....especially when you claim the cost is so low?

Maybe he can hold out for Miami to get involved, then he can go thirdsies.

He'd be smart to pass no matter how many colleges get involved if the practice facility being debated is little more than a remotely located structure that barely qualifies as a permanent structure. After all, the Bengals already have an agreement that allows them to use an off-site indoor facility whenever needed.

You sold me. I don't see the need for providing first class airfaire to potential free agents either. I think a Lumina & the assistant strength coach is plenty good to pick them up at the Airport too.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Why is it that a University with zero money will find a way to make it happen?

So far, the only thing that has happened is the university has gone begging for financial help that might result in them having a facility the Bengals don't need.

Is it necessary, no but neither are domed stadiums, but they still exist.

Dome stadiums don't exist in Cincinnati. Never have...probably never will. And for good reason.

UC wants to use it as a recruiting tool. Wouldn't Mike Brown want to do the same?

Shouldn't a major university like UC be capable of paying for it's own recruiting tools....especially when you claim the cost is so low?

Maybe he can hold out for Miami to get involved, then he can go thirdsies.

He'd be smart to pass no matter how many colleges get involved if the practice facility being debated is little more than a remotely located structure that barely qualifies as a permanent structure. After all, the Bengals already have an agreement that allows them to use an off-site indoor facility whenever needed.

You sold me. I don't see the need for providing first class airfaire to potential free agents either. I think a Lumina & the assistant strength coach is plenty good to pick them up at the Airport too.

Yep, because the Bengals' are special, they're different, they're so much better at running an NFL team than everyone else, that they don't need other basic things other teams have, he's sold me too.

Meanwhile feel free to support the laughing stock of the league on Sundays and keep telling us how they're doing everything right and don't need to make any extra concessions or efforts to get better. Maybe Chad can keep running his mouth and making a joke out of things until someone from a real team busts him in the head again and makes him cry like a little girl when someone actually has had enough of his garbage.

As coach Marvin says, "We just gotta keep doing what we've been doing"

And losing and looking like idiots on Sunday is exactly what they keep doing. Good job coach.

[damiancasey]

Yep, because the Bengals' are special, they're different, they're so much better at running an NFL team than everyone else, that they don't need other basic things other teams have, he's sold me too.

Meanwhile feel free to support the laughing stock of the league on Sundays and keep telling us how they're doing everything right and don't need to make any extra concessions or efforts to get better.

Now wait a minute, guys. Let's be realistic here...do the Bengals need an inflatable dome to get better??? I almost can't type that without laughing!

I'm not arguing that they suck and need to adjust the status quo in order to get better...but an inflatable dome???

Will an inflatable dome attract good players?

What other teams have inflatable domes? Is this a basic resource that most other teams have?

Come on!

[HairOnFire]

Now wait a minute, guys. Let's be realistic here...do the Bengals need an inflatable dome to get better??? I almost can't type that without laughing!

Even funnier is how often a Bengal fan will point to the lack of a bubble as final proof that all of their other conspiracy theories are valid.

For example: The lack of a bubble is the reason visiting free agents aren't greeted at the airport with huge crowds...like the Beatles were in 1964!!

[Bengals1]

Justin Smith. Robert Geathers. Leon Hall. Jonathan Joseph. Landon Johnson.

I wonder about Domato Peko on your list. When he's healthy, Ahmad Brooks.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that that the Colts, Pats, Cowboys and Steelers would rather have the players you listed than the people thay already have at those same posistions!?!

Perhaps you simply misunderstood how I phrased my question. Name a single starting defensive player on the Bungles that would start ahead of any of the players the Colts, Pats, Steelers or Cowboys have starting for them now?

What exactly has Brooks done to make you feel that the Pats or Colts would start him in place of their own current MLB?

We don't have the same caliber of talent the top teams in the league have. Do we have better talent here and there the Cards or the Fins or the Jets, sure. But that's what we're reduced to comparing ourselves too now? The 0-7 Rams!?!

[Jet23]

Yep, because the Bengals' are special, they're different, they're so much better at running an NFL team than everyone else, that they don't need other basic things other teams have, he's sold me too.

Meanwhile feel free to support the laughing stock of the league on Sundays and keep telling us how they're doing everything right and don't need to make any extra concessions or efforts to get better.

Now wait a minute, guys. Let's be realistic here...do the Bengals need an inflatable dome to get better??? I almost can't type that without laughing!

I'm not arguing that they suck and need to adjust the status quo in order to get better...but an inflatable dome???

Will an inflatable dome attract good players?

What other teams have inflatable domes? Is this a basic resource that most other teams have?

Come on!

I agree, this is not that big of a deal. BUT, personally, I would like to see SOP pay for something....ANYTHING. ONE FREAKING DOLLAR THAT DOESN'T GO STRAIGHT INTO HIS POCKET, that is what I want to see. Give me, give me, give me, give me. How can anyone (even MBA1 & MBA2) not get tired of the same old crap with this guy. Keep defending him guys. 90 wins 167 losses. Everything is working out juuuuuuust fine. Stay the course, kill some rabbits, King Kong will come and then we will be semi-competitive. But not too competitive, because then we would have to go to the Super Bowl and you know how spendy that can be..... I mean, I remember it when Pops was alive....

Here is an AP article from 2004. Apparently Marvin wants a bubble. Is he a fool too?

Dec. 23, 2004

AP

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8030882/1

Cincinnati Bengals owner Mike Brown won't pay for things he considers frills, such as a covered practice field for when the weather turns bad.

His head coach wants him to spring for one.

As part of their negotiations for a new stadium in the 1990s, Brown got the local county government to give him spacious practice fields on prime riverfront land next to Paul Brown Stadium, which opened for the 2000 season. Players have only to cross a street to work out on an artificial turf field and several nicely manicured grass fields.

Many northern teams have covered facilities for when the weather turns nasty in December, making it impossible to work outside. Not the Bengals. Under terms of their lease, they have the right to cover the practice fields, but they'd have to pay the cost.

So, there's no roof.

When a major snowstorm moved in on Wednesday, coach Marvin Lewis had to put his team on buses and take it one county north to an indoor soccer facility for a workout. The buses got caught in gridlocked traffic on the way to the facility and the way back, making for a long day and completely throwing off the schedule.

Asked if he'd like to have a covered field, Lewis responded with a nervous laugh and ran his hands across his face.

"We're hopeful in the future to have the ability to walk across the street and go to practice," he said, measuring his words carefully. "We'll leave it at that."