Fire Marvin

[damiancasey]

A lot of coaches that are coaching winners right now, Belichick, Dungy,

Phillips, Tomlin ect, didn`t take over teams that was considered one of the worst

in sports. They didn`t have to change a culture and rebuild, like Marvin did.

They followed winning programs and cultures. Marvin has done a damn fine

job in a little more than 4 seasons. Is he perfect ? Hell no. I can think of a lot

of things he needs to improve on. But he has had success. More success than

failure. He proved with a relatively healthy team, that he can go 11-5 and

win the division. He has shown that with a team decimated by injuries and suspensions,

that he can go 8-8 and now 2-5. There are a lot of coaches, Dungy and Belchick instantly

come to mind, that weren`t as successful when they first started, as they are now.

Jeff Fisher, who I myself consider a good coach, has had 4 winning seasons out of 17,

prior to this season, and had four 8-8 seasons. That means he`s had more losing seasons,

than winning seasons. What has he done but take the Titans to one Super Bowl ?

And none of them had to go through half the s**t that Marvin has went through. I think he

has done more to trust him, than he has done to doubt him. So I don`t think he is an idiot.

And I sure as hell don`t think he should be fired.

Great point and well put!!

[Jet23]

I would like to hear from you Old Schooler. What do you see as the problem? Is it just plain dumb luck that the Bengals are going through one of the worst periods of futility in the history of professional sports? It can't be Mike Brown, because it appears that you are most satisfied with his efforts.

I really don`t know what Mike Brown`s efforts now has to

do with his efforts pre Marvin. Things have changed

in case you haven`t been paying attention.So they`re

not "going through one of the worst periods" of anything

right now.

The Offense has Willie, Rudi, TJ, Chad and Levi left over

pre Marvin. The Defense has Justin Smith.

I see the problem as gutting a team of all but a few players,

trying to rebuild said team, and having key players that

they were counting on, to be injured or suspended. It really

is that simple.

For the record, in 2005 I commented that their success was an aberration based on Pete's parity involving easy schedules and high draft picks for perennial losers.

That makes no sense. Every AFC North team plays almost

the exact same schedule except for 2 games. And it`s

been that way for years now.

If every fan was like you, we would be enjoying our 16th season with David Shula at the helm.

Seriously. How do you figure if fans were like me,

that we`d still have a coach that was fired over 10 years ago, and

his replacement was replaced, and his replacement was replaced ?

Yeah, seriously. I have read far too many of you posts and you are really that stupid...seriously. Mike Brown changes for one reason and one reason only, when you hit him in the pocket book. He only hired Marvin because fans finally stopped showing up to watch his crap product. It is the apologist sheep buffoons like you that keep the status quo.

Fat, dumb and happy. That's exactly how you like it huh pal? I don't give a rats ash how many articles you read, you are either directly related to SOP, SOP, SOP, SOP or you are a very gullible man (I assume).

Yet another bitter, annoymous keyboard cowboy. Do you talk that bad to people face to face? Keep up the name calling Old Schooler, because it makes you look so tough...seriously.

[COB]

something about this fanbase that, in a small way, would rather lose to be able to complain than win and be able to celebrate.

Yep. Because you never stand so tall as you're standing on someone else's head. And you've permanantly glued down the caps lock key on your keyboard.

[HairOnFire]

Having seen this sad scenario before (as I'm sure you have OS), I am convinced there is something about this fanbase that, in a small way, would rather lose to be able to complain than win and be able to celebrate. A realist would think that it's impossible to chart a straight line from 2-14 to the Superbowl and that there will be ups & downs in between. It's certainly hard to keep your head when you see bad things happen on Sunday, but I tend to agree with you that we are currently in the midst of a fairly extreme (and in some odd way self-congratulatory) overreaction. But, hey, that's just me.

I knew it wouldn't take long before you wrote something I could agree with. Huge props.

[HairOnFire]

In regards to the other matter, my scorecard reads....

OldSchooler - 126

Jet23 - 0

[Jet23]

In regards to the other matter, my scorecard reads....

OldSchooler - 126

Jet23 - 0

Oh nuts. I so crave your approval Hair.

[BengalszoneBilly]

And I love how you said this year WILL be worse, and follow it up

with a smiley face that symbols something that`s cool. You say

your standards are high, but it appears you relish being a loser . . .

I do not relish the Bengals losing. That's why I'm so vocal against tools like you, but I will relish proving you wrong about Marvin Lewis. Keep loving this... I know it wads your panties so much!

C'mon dude...you're backing a head coach that's in over his head. If Marvin Lewis was worth his salt in the least, his defense would have climbed out of the cellar by now.

**RING-RING** The excuse phone is ringing, and of course it's for you. Answer it for your next not so witty reply.

[HoosierCat]

**RING-RING** The excuse phone is ringing, and of course it's for you. Answer it for your next not so witty reply.

Why there is this assumption that nothing can ever ever ever be better than Marvin escapes me. Of course, there are those who just can't let go of the past...

[oldschooler]

Yeah, seriously. I have read far too many of you posts and you are really that stupid...seriously. Mike Brown changes for one reason and one reason only, when you hit him in the pocket book. He only hired Marvin because fans finally stopped showing up to watch his crap product. It is the apologist sheep buffoons like you that keep the status quo.

Fat, dumb and happy. That's exactly how you like it huh pal? I don't give a rats ash how many articles you read, you are either directly related to SOP, SOP, SOP, SOP or you are a very gullible man (I assume).

Yet another bitter, annoymous keyboard cowboy. Do you talk that bad to people face to face? Keep up the name calling Old Schooler, because it makes you look so tough...seriously.

Notice out of all them words you typed, that you didn`t

address one damn fact I said ? You attacked me,

Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis. But not one damn fact I said.

Not one.

Oh and you calling ME bitter is laughable.

I do not relish the Bengals losing. That's why I'm so vocal against tools like you, but I will relish proving you wrong about Marvin Lewis. Keep loving this... I know it wads your panties so much!

Oh did I call one of your sobbing buddies a tool,

and now you have to call me one ? I never

called you any names, and only called Jet a tool

after he said something about "fans like me".

How exactly are YOU going to prove me wrong ?

The only way I can be wrong about Marvin is

if the Bengals lose. So obviously you do relish it.

C'mon dude...you're backing a head coach that's in over his head. If Marvin Lewis was worth his salt in the least, his defense would have climbed out of the cellar by now.

Below is the points the Bengals allowed per season and averages

per game since the year 2000. Marvin took over in 2003.

Notice how the point totals and averages per game have

dropped every year under Marvin, until this year ?

2000: Bengals allowed 359 points. That averages out to 22.4 allowed a game.

2001: Bengals allowed 309 points. That averages out to 19.3 allowed a game.

2002: Bengals allowed 456 points. That averages out to 28.5 allowed a game.

2003: Bengals allowed 384 points. That averages out to 24 allowed a game.

2004: Bengals allowed 372 points. That averages out to 23 allowed a game.

2005:Bengals allowed 350 points. That averages out to 21.8 allowed a game.

2006:Bengals allowed 331 points. That averages out to 20.7 allowed a game.

2007: Bengals have allowed 211 points (51 in one game). That averages out to 30.1 allowed a game.

Take away the Browns game, and they have allowed 26.6 points per game, with Street

Free Agents and players that weren`t even part of the team in August, STARTING

games. They also have played 3 of the top 6 scoring Offenses in the NFL in that span.

They`ve also played in 2 of the toughest venues in the NFL, for road teams to win,

in that same span.

Marvin gutted the Defense when he came here. And has been trying to

rebuild it since. He spent 4 of his first 5 draft picks as a Head Coach

to enhance the Offense. He didn`t really start addressing the Defense

with draft picks until the 2nd round of 2004.

Keep in mind that there are two Defensive players left from the 2003 roster,

John Thornton and Justin Smith.

I`ll bold the draft picks that are on the 53 man roster now . . .

Our Defensive draft picks from 2003: Dennis Weathersby, Khalid Abdullah,

Langston Moore, Elton Patterson.

Our Defensive draft picks from 2004: Keiwan Ratliff, Madieu Williams, Caleb Miller,

Landon Johnson, Matthias Askew, Robert Geathers, Greg Brooks.

Our Defensive draft picks from 2005: David Pollack, Odell Thurman, Jonathan Fanene

Our Defensive draft picks from 2006: Johnathan Joseph, Frostee Rucker, Domata Peko,

Ethan Kilmer.

Our Defensive draft picks from 2007: Leon Hall, Ahmad Brooks Marvin White, Matt Toeaina,

Chinedum Ndukwe.

Highest Defnsive pick in 2003 was Weathersby. A couple of freak accidents ended his career.

Highest pick in 2004 was Ratliff. He never became the ballhawk he was touted to be.

There were a couple of solid players drafted that year though. Highest draft pick in

2005 was Pollack. Freak injury to his neck put him out for almost 2 seasons.

Odell was a valid Rookie of the Year candidate in 2005. And hasn`t played since.

Jonathan Joseph has been slowed by an injury this season. Rucker hasn`t

even sniffed the field. And Kilmer hasn`t seen the field since training camp.

You can`t expect to have such a high turnover rate of personell, in such a short time,

have some of the highest picks you drafted to help rebuild, get injured/suspended or

be a bust (Ratliff) and not feel it.

I didn`t even mention the injuries toBrooks, Jeanty and Henderson.

If Marvin had all the players that they were counting on

to help rebuild the Defense, and the Defense was still

struggling, then I`d see people`s point who question

his "Defensive Genius" title . . .

**RING-RING** The excuse phone is ringing, and of course it's for you. Answer it for your next not so witty reply.

How unoriginal.

[ArmyBengal]

Funny how people can find a way to bag on the 2005 season due to "easy" scheduling instead of just being happy with the performance of the team. What would have happened if the Bengals went to the playoffs again this year ?? Everyone would have been overjoyed to watch the Bengals play in only their second playoff game since FOREVER right ?? However, in retrospect, they would have found this years schedule just as "easy" if not "easier" than than of the 2005 season. Can't people ever just be happy with how the team performs (When it does) ??

This place just keeps getting more rediculous with each passing day...

WHODEY !!!

[Jet23]

[oldschooler]

Lighten up Sparky, I did not attack Marvin. I thought you were this big reader, read my post again. Marvin isn't the greatest game coach in the world, but he has no chance as he works for the worst owner in all of professional sports. If I called him WOIAOPS would that make you feel better Tiger? I know how you hate SOP. Take 20 minutes (I know you have the time) and read my post again. It's about Mike Brown; it's always about Mike Brown.

There is only one fact that I want from you. Other than Bill Bidwell (tie) name an Owner, ANY OWNER, worse than WOIAOPS. The chick from Major League doesn't count, because that was only a movie. However, if I remember correctly, at least she supplied her players with their very on jocks. Can you imagine that Sparky, professional players that get their very own jocks? What an honor. And I don't recall Sorento having to spring for full-sized shower towels. I also doubt that she would entertain the thought of going halfsies with Cleveland State for a practice bubble. I know, I know, I'm living in the past, because there is all that overwhelming evidence that he is better now. After all, he did add Coop to the staff. Now, Lippy has someone to talk to.

**ring, ring*** the jerk store called.....(boy this is fun).

You`re posting in a "Fire Marvin Lewis" thread.

More attacking, while ignoring facts.

And not addressing any point I made . . .

[Jet23]

Lighten up Sparky, I did not attack Marvin. I thought you were this big reader, read my post again. Marvin isn't the greatest game coach in the world, but he has no chance as he works for the worst owner in all of professional sports. If I called him WOIAOPS would that make you feel better Tiger? I know how you hate SOP. Take 20 minutes (I know you have the time) and read my post again. It's about Mike Brown; it's always about Mike Brown.

There is only one fact that I want from you. Other than Bill Bidwell (tie) name an Owner, ANY OWNER, worse than WOIAOPS. The chick from Major League doesn't count, because that was only a movie. However, if I remember correctly, at least she supplied her players with their very on jocks. Can you imagine that Sparky, professional players that get their very own jocks? What an honor. And I don't recall Sorento having to spring for full-sized shower towels. I also doubt that she would entertain the thought of going halfsies with Cleveland State for a practice bubble. I know, I know, I'm living in the past, because there is all that overwhelming evidence that he is better now. After all, he did add Coop to the staff. Now, Lippy has someone to talk to.

**ring, ring*** the jerk store called.....(boy this is fun).

You`re posting in a "Fire Marvin Lewis" thread.

More attacking, while ignoring facts.

And not addressing any point I made . . .

You know, for all of the reading that you claim to do you sure have comprehension issues. I have done nothing but defend Marvin Lewis in this thread, deflecting criticism where it belongs; squarely on the lap of Mike Brown. It's like I tell my 6-year old, it's not enough just to read, but you also have to absorb the material. Hope that helps.

About your facts, I simply do not have the time to sift through your misinformation. For the record, one of Dennis Weathersby's freak accidents took place BEFORE he was drafted. Remember, he got capped before the draft. Once again, rather than having a Scouting Department of sufficient size to find actual talent worthy of the draft selection, they roll the dice on guy that just got shot. Lippy sure missed that one.

Mike Brown runs the Bengals as a business. Good for him. I'm sure the next 27 generations of Browns will appreciate it. I understand that every owner runs their team as a business, but not like this. Again, he will never trade a dollar for a win, and you know that. If you didn't, you would have already offered a name of a professional sports owner that is worse than Mike Brown. Don't waste your time, there is not one.

He does just enough to keep the sheep coming back. Apologists like you make his job really easy.

[HoosierCat]

As far as the defense is concerned, I think the "injury effect" gets overstated

Looking at by unit, there haven't been any significant injuries on the defensive line during Marvin's tenure. The d-line was lousy to start with, and it's remained lousy, because the Bengals haven't invested in it. The highest pick they've used on it was the 3rd on Frostee; the biggest FA signing was Thornton back in 2003. Otherwise it's been a hodge-podge of cast-offs, aging vets and low-round picks, with decidedly mixed results.

In the secondary, Joseph looks back to form, Hall hasn't been hurt, Madieu is two years removed from his injury, Dexter hasn't missed any more time than is usual for him, O'Neal's been fine this year, Nduke has been a pleasant surprise...so I have a hard time blaming injuries for the poor coverage and missed tackles we've seen. And yes, some of the DB's woes can be blamed on a lack of pressure up front, but again, it isn't the fault of injuries that the d-line stinks.

At linebacker, the team has certainly been hurt badly by injuries and suspensions. Yet I have limited sympathy for Marvin on that front because they knew -- or ought to have known -- that the LB corps was a potential disaster months and months ago. They knew Pollack's chances of playing were about 0.0001% last year. They knew Odell might not get reinstated, and even if he did might not be in shape, and even if he was, there were questions about whether they wanted him back. And they cut their most experienced LB, Brian Simmons, in February. And they lost a key backup/ST guy in Wilkins to Atlanta. Obviously the position needed shoring up badly -- but all they did was sign one FA, Hartwell, who was cut after TC. In short, they put themselves in a situation where a bit of bad luck could destroy them, and it has.

Was that Marvin? I dunno. If Lenny P. over at espn.com is to be believed, Marvin wanted to go after Joey Porter, but that got vetoed by the FO. That suggests to me that Marvin knew what has happened could happen, and tried to prevent it -- which is a mark in his favor. Unfortunately, that leaves the one thing we know won't change to blame...

[The PatternMaster]

As far as the defense is concerned, I think the "injury effect" gets overstated

Looking at by unit, there haven't been any significant injuries on the defensive line during Marvin's tenure. The d-line was lousy to start with, and it's remained lousy, because the Bengals haven't invested in it. The highest pick they've used on it was the 3rd on Frostee; the biggest FA signing was Thornton back in 2003. Otherwise it's been a hodge-podge of cast-offs, aging vets and low-round picks, with decidedly mixed results.

In the secondary, Joseph looks back to form, Hall hasn't been hurt, Madieu is two years removed from his injury, Dexter hasn't missed any more time than is usual for him, O'Neal's been fine this year, Nduke has been a pleasant surprise...so I have a hard time blaming injuries for the poor coverage and missed tackles we've seen. And yes, some of the DB's woes can be blamed on a lack of pressure up front, but again, it isn't the fault of injuries that the d-line stinks.

At linebacker, the team has certainly been hurt badly by injuries and suspensions. Yet I have limited sympathy for Marvin on that front because they knew -- or ought to have known -- that the LB corps was a potential disaster months and months ago. They knew Pollack's chances of playing were about 0.0001% last year. They knew Odell might not get reinstated, and even if he did might not be in shape, and even if he was, there were questions about whether they wanted him back. And they cut their most experienced LB, Brian Simmons, in February. And they lost a key backup/ST guy in Wilkins to Atlanta. Obviously the position needed shoring up badly -- but all they did was sign one FA, Hartwell, who was cut after TC. In short, they put themselves in a situation where a bit of bad luck could destroy them, and it has.

Was that Marvin? I dunno. If Lenny P. over at espn.com is to be believed, Marvin wanted to go after Joey Porter, but that got vetoed by the FO. That suggests to me that Marvin knew what has happened could happen, and tried to prevent it -- which is a mark in his favor. Unfortunately, that leaves the one thing we know won't change to blame...

Bears....

or maybe

liberals

[Jet23]

[oldschooler]

You know, for all of the reading that you claim to do you sure have comprehension issues. I have done nothing but defend Marvin Lewis in this thread, deflecting criticism where it belongs; squarely on the lap of Mike Brown. It's like I tell my 6-year old, it's not enough just to read, but you also have to absorb the material. Hope that helps.

I admit I didn`t read the entire thread. And I wasn`t even talking to you.

You felt the need to respond to me and asks me questions though.

I responded, and you attack me. Then continue to attack me,

and never did address anything I said, in like 2 or 3 posts now.

I assumed that you were here bashing on Marvin too.

So my bad, you attacked Mike Brown and Me while

not addressing any facts. Better ? Hope that helps . . .

By the way, are you BengalJet ? If so, that explains a lot.

About your facts, I simply do not have the time to sift through your misinformation. For the record, one of Dennis Weathersby's freak accidents took place BEFORE he was drafted. Remember, he got capped before the draft. Once again, rather than having a Scouting Department of sufficient size to find actual talent worthy of the draft selection, they roll the dice on guy that just got shot. Lippy sure missed that one.

Misinformation ? You`re the one that is misinformed.

Dennis Weathersby was a bona fide 1st round talent.

He dropped to the 4th round because he was shot.

And PLAYED in 2003, before his freak accident ended his career.

Mike Brown runs the Bengals as a business. Good for him. I'm sure the next 27 generations of Browns will appreciate it. I understand that every owner runs their team as a business, but not like this. Again, he will never trade a dollar for a win, and you know that. If you didn't, you would have already offered a name of a professional sports owner that is worse than Mike Brown. Don't waste your time, there is not one.

I can name a lot of owners that are worse right now,

but why bother ? You wouldn`t agree with them anyway.

He does just enough to keep the sheep coming back. Apologists like you make his job really easy.

See, I have never understood this type of thinking.

Aren`t you a Bengals fan ? Don`t you keep coming

back year after year, even though you know Mike Brown

is the owner, and the Bengals have no hope of winning

as long as he is ? What the hell does that make you then ?

A case could be made for you though. Because it is apparent

that you don`t really follow the team, you just sit around and

type the same old tired rants out over and over, so you can

read your own bitching. Good luck with that.

[Jet23]

You know, for all of the reading that you claim to do you sure have comprehension issues. I have done nothing but defend Marvin Lewis in this thread, deflecting criticism where it belongs; squarely on the lap of Mike Brown. It's like I tell my 6-year old, it's not enough just to read, but you also have to absorb the material. Hope that helps.

I admit I didn`t read the entire thread. And I wasn`t even talking to you.

You felt the need to respond to me and asks me questions though.

I responded, and you attack me. Then continue to attack me,

and never did address anything I said, in like 2 or 3 posts now.

I assumed that you were here bashing on Marvin too.

So my bad, you attacked Mike Brown and Me while

not addressing any facts. Better ? Hope that helps . . .

By the way, are you BengalJet ? If so, that explains a lot.

About your facts, I simply do not have the time to sift through your misinformation. For the record, one of Dennis Weathersby's freak accidents took place BEFORE he was drafted. Remember, he got capped before the draft. Once again, rather than having a Scouting Department of sufficient size to find actual talent worthy of the draft selection, they roll the dice on guy that just got shot. Lippy sure missed that one.

Misinformation ? You`re the one that is misinformed.

Dennis Weathersby was a bona fide 1st round talent.

He dropped to the 4th round because he was shot.

And PLAYED in 2003, before his freak accident ended his career.

Mike Brown runs the Bengals as a business. Good for him. I'm sure the next 27 generations of Browns will appreciate it. I understand that every owner runs their team as a business, but not like this. Again, he will never trade a dollar for a win, and you know that. If you didn't, you would have already offered a name of a professional sports owner that is worse than Mike Brown. Don't waste your time, there is not one.

I can name a lot of owners that are worse right now,

but why bother ? You wouldn`t agree with them anyway.

He does just enough to keep the sheep coming back. Apologists like you make his job really easy.

See, I have never understood this type of thinking.

Aren`t you a Bengals fan ? Don`t you keep coming

back year after year, even though you know Mike Brown

is the owner, and the Bengals have no hope of winning

as long as he is ? What the hell does that make you then ?

A case could be made for you though. Because it is apparent

that you don`t really follow the team, you just sit around and

type the same old tired rants out over and over, so you can

read your own bitching. Good luck with that.

Yeah, right away with the overwhelming number of bad owners on the tip of your tongue. There aren't any, and you know it. I am a Bengals fan, and as painful as it is at times, I can't change that. I would, however, like Mike Brown to change. That is what I hope for, but things are looking bleak. We can thank the people that see no problem in his half a$$ way for that.

You say I sit around and type the same old rants, yet you just admitted to not reading them. By the way, I have no idea who BengalJet is, but if you have a problem with him, he must have a brain.

I know about Dennis Weathersby. I know he WAS a first round talent. Did you not say he had a couple of unfortunate incidents after they drafted him? No, he was in a car wreck and bashed his head on the side of his car. The attempted whacking took place BEFORE they drafted him. I don't care where he was projected before his involvement in a drive by, but there is a reason why everyone else passed on him no? 1st round talent, heck let's jump on him. Afterall, Lippy only caught a few of the other guys still available via the Dish Network.

[BengalszoneBilly]

How unoriginal.

That's all you got out of my reply? This is why I was warned to never argue with idiots. They only drag you down to their level, then beat you down with with experience.

[BengalszoneBilly]

You`re posting in a "Fire Marvin Lewis" thread.

More attacking, while ignoring facts.

And not addressing any point I made . . .

Holy s**t! It sounds like he's cutting in on your turf!

[Steelpride12]

Wow he messes up one season and your already jumping off the bandwagon geez o man!

Ya whats new with you guys have a s**tty season your all used to it by now,

Fire his ass!

[oldschooler]

Yeah, right away with the overwhelming number of bad owners on the tip of your tongue. There aren't any, and you know it. I am a Bengals fan, and as painful as it is at times, I can't change that. I would, however, like Mike Brown to change. That is what I hope for, but things are looking bleak. We can thank the people that see no problem in his half a$$ way for that.

Listen here Stanley, You want to lump the 90`s into everything,

the 90`s have been over for over 7 years now. Mike Brown

isn`t handing out used jocks, or making players buy their own

towels, and he hasn`t for years. He has opened his purse strings

and has spent a lot of money pampering millionaires. He was taught

how to run an NFL franchise by his Father, who is considered a Legend.

His Father didn`t believe in pampering "Warriors" either.

But like it or not "SoP" finally changed. And he did years ago.

He lost his 90`s mentality, maybe you should too.

You say I sit around and type the same old rants, yet you just admitted to not reading them. By the way, I have no idea who BengalJet is, but if you have a problem with him, he must have a brain.

If all you`re doing is bitching about Mike Brown, it`s the same old tired rant.

I don`t need to read them all to know what they say.

If you look back to my first post in this thread, I was addressing something

Bengals1 said, which was a bitchfest about "SoP'. You took it upon yourself to

get in a pissing match because I wasn`t joining in to bash Mike Brown, Stanley.

I know about Dennis Weathersby. I know he WAS a first round talent. Did you not say he had a couple of unfortunate incidents after they drafted him? No, he was in a car wreck and bashed his head on the side of his car. The attempted whacking took place BEFORE they drafted him. I don't care where he was projected before his involvement in a drive by, but there is a reason why everyone else passed on him no? 1st round talent, heck let's jump on him. Afterall, Lippy only caught a few of the other guys still available via the Dish Network.

Yeah, drafting 1st round talent in the 4th round is ridiculous.

What a crappy way to draft players when you`re trying to

rebuild. Let`s ignore the fact that Weathersby was healed

from the gun shot wound, and was able to contribute his

Rookie year. Let`s act like because he was in a freak

accident that ended his career, that that was somehow

a bad draft pick, and it was all a fault of our crappy understaffed

scouting Department.

Listen Stanley, I`m done with this tennis match of posts.

If you feel the need to get in the last word, then so be it.

I`ll just let you know where I stand and why I`m standing there.

I have been a Bengals fan since the early 70`s.

I have attended and/or watched every game since then.

You haven`t "suffered" anymore than I have. I hate nothing about the Bengals.

They are a form of entertainment for me. I grew up enough through

the years to realize that I can`t control when a ref throws a flag,

how the ball bounces, or anything that happens on or off the field.

People that sit around bitching about Mike Brown all the time , have some twisted

superiority complex. You still support the team, except all you do

is bitch and be an a**h*** to other fans that don`t bitch.

Is Mike Brown perfect ? Hell no. Is he still the Mike Brown you

grew to hate ? Hell no. He made quite a few players some

of the highest paid at their positions. The Bengals had the

4th highest payroll in the NFL last season. And he is now

pampering Millionaires.

The Bengals are 2-5. They have lost 3 games by a combined total

of 16 points. And that was despite all the injuries, suspensions

and Mike Browns "meddling". This team isn`t "horrible". They`re

not anything close to a team of the 90`s. They played tougher against

the Patriots, and held them to a lower score than the Cowboys and Redskins.

Both of those teams have what many consider GREAT owners.

Fact is, if you love the Bengals, then we have something in common.

We both want nothing but wins. But we both handle losing differently.

A loss still hurts, but I don`t let it ruin my day, my week or my life

anymore. You chose to blame all the loses on "SoP'. Were you

bitching about "SoP" in 2005 ? I doubt it. Why would you ?

But now a banged up team, that is missing it`s 1st round pick

from 2004, it`s 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks from 2005

and has had it`s 1st round pick from 2006 have surgery

and be suspended one game and is missing it`s 2nd and

3rd round picks from 2007, (that`s 5 first day picks that

were supposed to help rebuild the Defense and 3 first day picks

that was supposed to enhance the Offense)

has lost more games than it has won. So it MUST be "SoP`s" fault.

Yeah. That makes sense.

Anyway, take your last shots at me if you must. Try to convince

others that I`m a sheep, while you yourself still follow the team too.

Try to convince others that I am an idiot, or that I have no brain.

Good luck with that.

How unoriginal.

That's all you got out of my reply? This is why I was warned to never argue with idiots. They only drag you down to their level, then beat you down with with experience.

I typed plenty more, but you chose to ignore it

and keep bitching and calling names. It seems

to be your MO.

You`re posting in a "Fire Marvin Lewis" thread.

More attacking, while ignoring facts.

And not addressing any point I made . . .

Holy s**t! It sounds like he's cutting in on your turf!

I use to think you were cool Billy.

Now you just come off as a bitter, bitter old man.

Do you ever actually discuss football ?

You can have the last word too. Make it a good attack this time OK ?

[HairOnFire]

As far as the defense is concerned, I think the "injury effect" gets overstated.

Unless starting street free agents 3 or 4 days after they're signed is more common than I think it's not overstated.

Looking at by unit, there haven't been any significant injuries on the defensive line during Marvin's tenure.

Losing a starting DT is a significant injury, isn't it? (Tony Williams) To be fair he's been replaced by Peko, and quite well I'd say, but any loss of any starter is a setback and requires assets be used to fill the newly created hole.

... I have limited sympathy for Marvin on that front because they knew -- or ought to have known -- that the LB corps was a potential disaster months and months ago. They knew Pollack's chances of playing were about 0.0001% last year. They knew Odell might not get reinstated...

They replaced Pollack with Eric Henderson, who was injured just before the regular season began. They replaced Thurman with Brooks, who was injured just after the regular season started. All things considered, you're not doing a vey good job of showing how the injury effect is overstated.

And they cut their most experienced LB, Brian Simmons, in February. And they lost a key backup/ST guy in Wilkins to Atlanta. Obviously the position needed shoring up badly -- but all they did was sign one FA, Hartwell, who was cut after TC. In short, they put themselves in a situation where a bit of bad luck could destroy them, and it has.

In my opinion you can't argue that Simmons should have been kept unless you can argue that he deserved to be kept based upon his level of play. In this case that's a hard sell.

If Lenny P. over at espn.com is to be believed, Marvin wanted to go after Joey Porter, but that got vetoed by the FO. That suggests to me that Marvin knew what has happened could happen, and tried to prevent it -- which is a mark in his favor.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single quote from Marvin that even hinted he wanted Porter. In addition, even before Porter signed his new contract the Dolphins were heavily criticized for making an opening bid that most observers felt was ridiculous. In hindsight, it was.

[HoosierCat]

... I have limited sympathy for Marvin on that front because they knew -- or ought to have known -- that the LB corps was a potential disaster months and months ago. They knew Pollack's chances of playing were about 0.0001% last year. They knew Odell might not get reinstated...

They replaced Pollack with Eric Henderson, who was injured just before the regular season began. They replaced Thurman with Brooks, who was injured just after the regular season started. All things considered, you're not doing a vey good job of showing how the injury effect is overstated.

Let's rewind here just a bit, shall we? Let's see, what did you snip out and replace with "..." in your above quotation from me?

At linebacker, the team has certainly been hurt badly by injuries and suspensions. Yet

Ah, yes, that would be it, the part where I allow that there is one area of the team that has been hit hard by injuries, LB. Nice job of taking the quote completely out of context.

Outside of LB, however, my point holds up pretty well, as evidenced by your need to reach all the way back to Tony Williams -- who was hardly a world-beater -- to find some other injury to cite. And certainly this year's team has not had any particular injury struggles outside of LB, just the usual dings any team takes. A far bigger issue IMHO is that we have one first-round pick (JJoe), two seconds (Ratliff, recently released, and Williams), two thirds (Caleb and Landon), and one highly-paid fourth (Geathers) who have failed, or are currently failing, to live up to their draft status and/or paycheck.

[membengal]

What explains the inability to tackle?

Or the secondary to cover?

Or the D-line to mount a rush?

It's on Lewis. He's failed miserably as a coach this year. Simply an atrocious job he has turned in. Embarassing, in every respect.