What's the Call on Wins?

[BengalszoneBilly]

Ok, lets say for the sake of argument that we lose both games to Baltimore, and Pittsburgh, that's 4. We lose to Seattle and New England, that's 6. Between 2 with Cleveland, the Chiefs, the Jets, the Bills, the Cardinals, the Titans, the Rams, the 49er's, and the Dolphins, where do you honestly think we are losing 3 more ?? That's "IF" we lose all those others I mentioned to begin with (Which I don't see happening)... If you honestly believe we are going to get swept by the Steelers and Ravens, we have bigger concerns !!! I think the outlook proposed by some of you guys is a little on the, uncalled for, bleak side of things. Maybe I'm an optimist in all of this, but this was certainly not the attitude held by the majority of you when the schedule was released. I know things have taken a few changes, but so much so that we went from a possible 11-5 to a 7-9 record ?? I'm sorry, I just can't agree with that. I will be more than happy to come back and say how wrong I was, but I would prefer to remain hopeful as opposed to thinking who we will take with the first pick of the draft next year...

WHODEY !!!

The Bills, (away) Titans, Jets and Rams (all home) always seem tough against Cincy. I also expect the 49'ers and Dolphins (both away) as well as Arizona (home) to be vastly improved. Thats 7 "iffy" games right there IMHO. Geeze bro! It's so damned hard to tell right now.

BTW I don't see getting swept by either Pittsburgh or Baltimore.

[derekshank]

Ok, lets say for the sake of argument that we lose both games to Baltimore, and Pittsburgh, that's 4. We lose to Seattle and New England, that's 6. Between 2 with Cleveland, the Chiefs, the Jets, the Bills, the Cardinals, the Titans, the Rams, the 49er's, and the Dolphins, where do you honestly think we are losing 3 more ?? That's "IF" we lose all those others I mentioned to begin with (Which I don't see happening)... If you honestly believe we are going to get swept by the Steelers and Ravens, we have bigger concerns !!! I think the outlook proposed by some of you guys is a little on the, uncalled for, bleak side of things. Maybe I'm an optimist in all of this, but this was certainly not the attitude held by the majority of you when the schedule was released. I know things have taken a few changes, but so much so that we went from a possible 11-5 to a 7-9 record ?? I'm sorry, I just can't agree with that. I will be more than happy to come back and say how wrong I was, but I would prefer to remain hopeful as opposed to thinking who we will take with the first pick of the draft next year...

WHODEY !!!

I'm with you Army. People forget how tough the schedule was last year, combined with a ridiculous number of injuries and bad bounces (Tampa, Baltimore, Denver, Pittsburgh). I just don't see why there needs to be so much pessimism because the offense didn't look sharp during preseason game #2.

[kenyon1977]

It's not just how many wins will we have. It's also how many the other teams in our division and conference. Over the past three years our division seems to kill each other. We can have 10 wins but if Bal, and Pit have 10 and a tie breaker or KC and Denver have 10 and the wild card, well you get what I'm saying.

Baltimore W

at Cleveland W

at Seattle L(first time all year Shaun Alexander runs for 200 yards)

New England W(Randy Moss gets killed the one time he goes over the middle ending all the SuperBowl talk in NE)

Bye (Press conference annoucing that 2 and 2 isn't that bad)

at Kansas City L(LJ and Preist combine for 250 on the ground)

New York Jets W(an ugly field goal battle)

Pittsburgh W

at Buffalo W (they're even worse than last year, now without a good running game)

at Baltimore L we won the first one

Arizona L (Arizona finally plays to the buildup and hype of the past three years and is actually pretty good this year)

Tennessee W

at Pittsburgh L we won the first one

St. Louis W (by this time of year Bulger is hurt, though Jackson will probably run for 150 or so)

at San Francisco L (the pregame show is going to show the SuperBowl loss over and over, can't stop Gore)

at Cleveland W

Miami W

That's 10 and 6 the way I see it.

[ArmyBengal]

Thanks Derek, I'm glad someone finally agreed !!!

WHODEY !!!

[HairOnFire]

BTW - did anybody else think that CP was particularly inaccurate when throwing to Perry? That sideline route was a little underthrown, but the one that could've been a TD was pretty much uncatchable.

Agreed, and I just read an article that confirmed my suspicion that the Bengals aren't gameplanning to win, but rather to get more of a look at the players who are battling for the 3rd and 4th WR slots. They're deliberately forcing the action, and not only isn't the timing there, but if Brazell's suprised/frustrated reaction after more than half of the passes thrown his way are any indication...he's not even on the same page.

That said, improving your timing with role players is exactly what preseason football is for, right?

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Well Brazell let a pass go right through his hands in the end zone and Perry looked clueless - hard to blame Palmer for "everything" there.

Could it be Brazell and Perry are showing us why they couldn't even start on their college teams?

I'm not sure Brazell makes the cut - and Perry needs to be used as a ST's ace and someone you draw a play or two up for - not much of a #3 WR.

Personally I think McNeal has more value than Brazell at this point. They just didn't throw the ball to him much and nor did he get a chance to return any kicks.

This team will look much better if they can get guys like JJ and Levi and Kelly back obviously. I'm not going to panic until we get to the 1st week of the season no matter what - unless some major injuries occur between now and then.

[HairOnFire]

Personally I think McNeal has more value than Brazell at this point. They just didn't throw the ball to him much and nor did he get a chance to return any kicks.

McNeil let a perfectly thrown scoring pass go right through his hands on the final drive, and also returned several kickoffs....looking marginal each time.

[TJJackson]

Given the number of serious injuries we have sustained as a team, I'd actual venture to say I wil consider this is a successful season if we get 8 wins. Under the circumstances, with more injuries sure to come when the games are real, and these injuries will more than likely be to starters.......I would not be shocked if we go 6-10.

Don't get me wrong - I think this is a playoff team if we are healthy - but I can't think of a team with more injuries at the moment than we have

[TippCityRick]

10-6. I believe we are the same team as last year and two of the four bad bounces that curtailed our season last year won't occur this year. That's what I believe anyway.

[BengalByTheBay]

Well Brazell let a pass go right through his hands in the end zone and Perry looked clueless - hard to blame Palmer for "everything" there.

Agree about Bennie, but disagree about Perry. How did he look clueless? Was it when he almost brought in the underthrown sideline route despite it being hit by the corner? Was it when he watched the ball sail about 5 yards over his head at the goal line after getting completely open? Perhaps, it was when Dougie tried to throw a bullet pass to him when he was all of 10 yards away (the hardest I've ever seen DJ throw a ball BTW) and still couldn't get it within his body frame? And I was able to do that without even blaming "everything" on CP. Perry had an okay game -- could've had one or maybe two more catches, but was generally missed by the QB, which more often than not was Johnson. Sorry that I dared to suggest that the almighty Carson might have been less than sharp. I still think Perry is the clubhouse leader at 3rd WR and well out in front of any of the other candidates that I can see at this point. He certainly is not Chris Henry, but based solely on preseason (which we seem to be doing) neither is CJ.

[derekshank]

I actually give Brazell a pass on the dropped TD pass. It looked like the defender blocked his vision. It's likely that Chad or Housh would have caught it anyway... but Henry has dropped his share of those as well.

I still like Perry as the #3, but he'll ahve to show me something against Atlanta.

[Big_Dog_Daddy]

I am like many of you who said they will win at least 10 games. I think 10 is the absolute least amount that they will win. Carson is now completely healed and more confident. I also think that Chad will have even better statistics this year. I don't think the Bengals will have any problems winning their division!

[HoosierCat]

Offense banged up going in.

Defense sucks as usual.

STs a work in progress.

I'll put my chit on 9-7. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Stripes]

I think we definitely field a team as good as last year's, and I doubt we'll have the fluke late losses like we had in Tampa and Denver. The second half schedule is absolutely delicious too... I stick with ten or more despite the lackluster preseason.

[Kazkal]

11-5 .......

[Tasher]

Undefeated!

[ShulaSteakhouse]

8-8 with mediocre Marvin

I'm just not sure where this team has improved from last year. It's possible they've actually managed to get worse.

[Tasher]

I stand by my post!

...Cincinnati Bengals (+/- 9.5 Wins)

PFP 2007 Mean Projection: 8.7 Wins

The best news about the Bengals’ hopes for this upcoming season actually came this week, as left tackle Levi Jones finally got back on the field after off-season surgery on his left knee. Jones is the Bengals’ best offensive lineman and the most irreplacable, especially after the departures of Eric Steinbach and Rich Braham on the interior. The old backups, Andrew Whitworth and Eric Ghiaciuc, are now the starters, which creates holes behind them. If Jones can’t go, the Bengals could move Whitworth to left tackle and start Stacy Andrews at guard; Andrews is, of course, the brother of All-Pro Eagles left guard Shawn Andrews.

I’m slightly more sanguine than our projection system on the Bengals defense because I really do think Marvin Lewis is a good teacher. With that in mind, he’s refreshed the secondary with new talent at cornerback, where Tory James was way past his prime and Deltha O’Neal had regressed. Johnathan Joseph was fantastic in run support last season, and had a very solid success rate (53%, 36th in the league) for a rookie corner; meanwhile, the Bengals spent a first-round pick on Michigan corner Leon Hall. Big Ten first-round defensive backs this decade have been a mixed bag; while Nate Clements is a star, and Donte Whitner looks to be an excellent safety for years to come, Chris Gamble, Marlin Jackson, Willie Middlebrooks, Jamar Fletcher, and Ahmed Plummer are a mix of washouts, retirees, and fringe defensive backs. The other move the Bengals made was to bring in LB Ed Hartwell, who was a star in Baltimore but failed to make an impact due to injury in Atlanta. While Hartwell initially played on the weak side in preseason, he’s been moved back into the middle, and if he beats out Ahmad Brooks for the middle linebacker spot, he might steady what’s been a disappointing defense. With an average schedule and a healthy Carson Palmer for a full season, I’m going to ignore the projection system and go with the Over.

See the full discussion here:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/08/2.../scramble/5381/

[Bobcat Bengal]

8-8 with mediocre Marvin

I'm just not sure where this team has improved from last year. It's possible they've actually managed to get worse.

mediocre marvin....lol

who would you rather have coaching the team?

Shula?

[BengalszoneBilly]

8-8 with mediocre Marvin

I'm just not sure where this team has improved from last year. It's possible they've actually managed to get worse.

mediocre marvin....lol

who would you rather have coaching the team?

Shula?

Steakhouse...sure. Why not?

[ShulaSteakhouse]

8-8 with mediocre Marvin

I'm just not sure where this team has improved from last year. It's possible they've actually managed to get worse.

mediocre marvin....lol

who would you rather have coaching the team?

Shula?

Nah just giving him some grief (when I'm sure Brown is much more deserving) for a team that is doing God knows what with the 0-line and refuses to upgrade their TE or fix their long-running LB, DT and safety problems.

In any case, I like Marvin well enough, but if this team wants to have a winning record, it's pretty much going to have to be all Carson and Chad/TJ/Rudi again. Palmer will have to have a miraculous season - not impossible.

The real problem is that they've lost soo many 1st and 2nd round picks over the last 3 years.

The other is that I just don't see this LB corps being improved from last year unless Landon has a huge year and Brooks somehow figures it out. It's going to be hard for them to stop people consistently enough.

I guess we'll see, a solid win Monday night would be huge for a lot of reasons.

[bengalsfansince68]

The real problem is that they've lost soo many 1st and 2nd round picks over the last 3 years.

Guys, if you understand what the problem is...

Why do you persist with the Mediocre Marvin and Coach Bonehead BULLSH*T??

[BengalszoneBilly]

The real problem is that they've lost soo many 1st and 2nd round picks over the last 3 years.

Guys, if you understand what the problem is...

Why do you persist with the Mediocre Marvin and Coach Bonehead BULLSH*T??

So I can safely count you out of the "In Marvin We Trust" camp? Don't worry bfs68, I'm about ready to join you there.

[chrishcovga]

I actually got off the Marvin In Trust Bandwagon a while ago. Last Year's lack of team discipline showed he didn't have command over his troops.

- Men are ultimately responsible for their own actions, but I do know that if The coach had the " Fear of God " in his players, the antics off the field would not be happening.

AS to the Post,

- I'm saying 9 - 7 or 10 - 6. I think the defense will be a little better this year, like 20th, but with the lack of consistent threats on 3rd down, our offense could look average the first half of the season.

* Luckily for us, the last 8 games of the year are against average to below average competition. So here's to starting slow and finishing strong !!

Wild Card berth at best.

And with the 23rd pick in the April 2008 NFL draft, The Cincinnati Bengals select...........

[bengalsfansince68]

So I can safely count you out of the "In Marvin We Trust" camp? Don't worry bfs68, I'm about ready to join you there.

I'd say any defense and any coach who drafted two young stud linebackers and lost both, possibly forever, after one year, would likely have to deal with the consequences for some time. I think ML came here with a great plan which has been temporarily circumvented by circumstances that no one could have forseen. Let's remember guys, ML got us to 11-5 with Pollack and Odell as rookies and I'm thinking if we had those players in '06, we would have easily made the playoffs and would be legitimate SB contenders today.

I do, however, take issue with the way Marvin is allowing our defense to be coached.

This is not Vietnam where you hide behind a tree and react to what you see. This is the NFL, you have 100 yards to defend and the best way to do it is to agressively crawl up the opponent's asses.

Marvin should be demanding that the defensive staff teach the players to defend the field aggressively.

They are not and that is surely on Marvin.