Thurman DENIED!

[markymark69]

Although I'm surprised by the length. This is a very clear statement that Roger Goodell wants to clean up the image of the NFL and for that I applaud him. This a big time statement that you better straigthen up or else.

You couldn't be more wrong. The refusal to reinstate Thurman is a big time statement that even if a suspended player serves the full term of his suspension and complies with the league's conditions, the player can still be f**ked. And that royal ass, Goodell, doesn't need to explain why. Goodell shouldn't be applauded, he should be slapped.

Wouldn't this be the time the player's union and steps up and actually does some defending of their players???

Or is the leech to the golden boy club still attached?

I'm not saying I applaud the suspension, I applaud the commissioner for wanting to clean up the league's image, I would think you would want that too. One thing I hope happens is that Goodell is consistent in his penalties and I will be paying close attention to see if he is.

The NFL is going through a PR nightmare right now and he's trying to correct the problems. Did he go to far with the Odell case? Perhaps, we don't the whole reason behind the decision and this is likely one of those deals that all the misbehavings by the players are being dealt with a strong hand. The incident in Georgia is likely a real big key in this decision, IMO.

[BengalByTheBay]

Say it with me HC -- ARBITRARY! Now doesn't that feel better?

Seriously though, unless there is some fact that we don't yet know about a substance abuse policy misstep, Goodell is living down to my lowest expectations.

I wouldn't characterize this as arbitrary. Remember, Odell's situation didn't come about as part of Goodell's "get tough" policy, but was the consequence of a substance abuse policy that's long been in place, and which has knocked guys out for whole seasons in the pre-Goodell past (see Williams, Ricky, etc.). I think -- I could be wrong but I think -- Odell's is the first reinstatement Goodell has had to make a call on.

However, that said, with this move Goodell appears to have committed himself to a policy of "suspended players have to live like monks." I think there are huge issues with that. IMHO it simply increases the chances that various random a-holes are going to make BS accusations against suspended players (like that kid who said Chris Henry jumped out a car, hit him, and threw beer bottles at him) in hopes of getting some kind of payout.

Come on, HC, the truth will set you free. A r b i t r a r y

This wasn't a "consequence of the substance abuse policy" -- you know it, I know it and the American people know it. The first year -- yes. But, we're not here discussing that are we? No, unless there is more here (which I already said would make a difference), Odell was effectively punished (and it's as severe a punishment as any ever levied by Goodell for anything) because a couple of guys claim that he kicked their ass. They subsequently withdrew their complaint and there has been no further activity.

By that standard, Joey Porter should be banned for life.

Arbitrary.

[HoosierCat]

This wasn't a "consequence of the substance abuse policy" -- you know it, I know it and the American people know it. The first year -- yes.

OK, it wasn't but it was? Now you aren't even making sense.

But, we're not here discussing that are we? No, unless there is more here (which I already said would make a difference), Odell was effectively punished (and it's as severe a punishment as any ever levied by Goodell for anything) because a couple of guys claim that he kicked their ass. They subsequently withdrew their complaint and there has been no further activity.

There's no rule that says you automatically get back in after being suspended under the drug policy. That's why you have to apply for reinstatement. As long as Goodell applies the principle he's set forth here today in subsequent decisions (i.e. don't live like a saint = no reinstatement) there's nothing arbitrary about it. D**h-headed, yes. Arbitrary, no.

[Spor_tees]

Eventually, if Goodell continues to make decisions like this that takes away the ability of a person to make a living despite the fact they followed the guidelines for reinstatement set forth under the contract between the NFL and NFLPA, I can see this going to court. Yes, the NFL is part of the anti-trust group that doesn't have to follow the same rules that say my employer or your employer does, that can change. In fact baseball was threatened with losing their anti-trust status when they went on strike. I think this would be brought to court under the same type of suit like the one Clarrett filed to be eligible for the draft. The only difference is, the Clarrett situation was mutual agreed upon in a contract between the NFL and NFLPA, whereas the Odell situation is in violation of the NFL/NFLPA agreement.

Basically it comes down to what others have said, 'ol Roger Dodger has it out for the Bengals and will punish them as swiftly and harshly as he can. Come on! Joey Porter a 3 games fine...Odell a 2 year suspension?

[GregCook]

Odell who hasn't hurt anyone, but himself, is facing a 32 game suspension, in effect, while Joey Porter who organized a posse to assault another player gets a slap on the bank account with zero game suspensions? Doesn't seem fair. This could likely end that man's career.

Chris Henry, with gun issues, issues with girls not of legal age, and Odell's substance issues, is only facing an 8 game suspension?

Mike Vick, dog killer, might be banned for life. In practice this isn't much worse than Odell's punishment.

Odd line of thinking from the commish, but eventually we'll find out what other skeletons are rattling in Odell's closet.

[The PatternMaster]

KC Chiefs DE Jared Allen gets his suspension cut in half after pleading guilty to 2 DUI's in a one year span..

Kansas City Chiefs defensive end Jared Allen, sanctioned in April for a repeat violation of the NFL's substance abuse policy, has had his four-game suspension reduced to two games as a result of an appeal.

The rare reduction, first reported by the Kansas City Star, was confirmed late Sunday by a league source. The NFL had never publicly announced the suspension, but Allen had admitted to it.

Allen will miss the first two contests of the season, on Sept. 9 at Houston and Sept. 16 at Chicago, instead of the campaign's entire first month. He will be eligible to return to the team on Sept. 17, provided he meets all the conditions of the suspension.

"I'm excited about this," Allen told the newspaper. "It changes training camp for me. It will change the way I approach the season."

Allen, 25, was suspended by commissioner Roger Goodell after twice being charged with DUI last year. He has demonstrated much remorse over the incidents and has become very involved in several local charities, most notably working with a group that raises funds to combat juvenile diabetes.

The former Idaho State star pleaded no contest to the most recent charges in September and entered a diversion program to resolve the first DUI incident from May 2006.

On May 22, as first reported by ESPN.com, he signed a one-year qualifying offer for a restricted free agent, worth $2.35 million. Barring an extension, he will be eligible for unrestricted free agency next spring.

A fourth-round choice in the 2004 draft, Allen has developed into one of the league's top young sack threats. He has 165 tackles, 27½ sacks, 10 forced fumbles, eight fumble recoveries, one interception and 15 passes defensed in 47 appearances and 41 starts. Allen has an explosive first step and combines with that a relentless drive to get to the quarterback.

Allen indicated in February, with discussions on a long-term contract stalled, that he wanted to be traded. It is believed the Chiefs made him a multi-year offer but with significantly less in guarantees than other defensive ends, some of them with statistics inferior to his, have received lately. Allen said in February that he was "shocked and hurt" by the lack of progress toward a long-term deal.

In anticipation that this might be his final season in Kansas City, he recently sold his home there. He will live with a friend during the season but has continued to make strong contributions to the community this offseason.

Why wouldn't the NFL annouce that they reduced his suspension, this Goodell character is getting slimier by the second. He is disgusting.

[COB]

"The incident in Georgia is likely a real big key in this decision, IMO"

Right on there. If you recall the allegation, it was that Odell returned to the scene of a fight to point a gun at his adversary. I felt at the time that the complainants suddenly got quiet ala some sort of payoff. I also recall a Court Clerk down in Georgia saying it was settled and the terms were between the parties' lawyers.

I am certain that the retired FBI agents the NFL uses for such things did a much more thorough job of investigating the incident than the Monticello police did. No disrespect to them, but they have a few guys to investigate a lot of things, the NFL security guys have a lot of guys to investigate a few things.

No charges filed? So what. Whether it happened or not is almost irrelevant to whether charges are filed. The determining factor is what the prosecutor believes he can prove beyond a reasonable doubt with the admissible evidence he has.

Goodell is obviously beyond the naive attitude of relying on the judicial system to determine what happened. His action today shows what he believes happened, based on the investigation the NFL did.

I believe Odell busted back into that party with a gun, paid off the people at the party to keep quiet, then stupidly thought he could rely on the old argument of "well, no charges were filed."

At this point, Michael Vick is the best thing to ever happen to us. Cut Thurman now and let the media follow the Falcons around all year. You know who you don't hear much about in this conversation? The Bears. Tank was shown the door and they are pretty much left out of this whole thing.

[HairOnFire]

All of this has been stated before (despite Hair's claim as the lone voice in the wilderness):

Please allow me to clarify. With each passing day, and with each ruling handed down from upon high, my lone voice has been joined by an increasingly loud chorus of others who have slowly agreed with and then expanded upon my now tired rant. In short, everyone from the start agreed that there's a problem that needs to be addressed, but more and more people are coming to the conclusion that any attempt to curb behavior using purely ARBITRARY methods is not only doomed to fail, but potentially makes the problem worse.

One more point. One of the things that has repeatedly disturbed me is the ease and quickness of fans, the media, law enforcement, and Roger Goodell to view a handful of players as unworthy of any further attempts to rehabilitate. Whether it's a sportwriter climbing atop the nearest handy soapbox, a police officer swamping a player under a blizzard of laughable traffic infractions, a county proscecutor leaking false and damaging information, or the Commish attempting to portray his laborforce as something it very cleary isn't....it seems like plenty of people have decided that certain players need to be run out of the NFL using any method. I disagree strongly. In fact, as long as a player like Chris Henry or Odell Thurman is actively trying his best to turn things around I'm willing to support them.

[The PatternMaster]

"The incident in Georgia is likely a real big key in this decision, IMO"

Right on there. If you recall the allegation, it was that Odell returned to the scene of a fight to point a gun at his adversary. I felt at the time that the complainants suddenly got quiet ala some sort of payoff. I also recall a Court Clerk down in Georgia saying it was settled and the terms were between the parties' lawyers.

I am certain that the retired FBI agents the NFL uses for such things did a much more thorough job of investigating the incident than the Monticello police did. No disrespect to them, but they have a few guys to investigate a lot of things, the NFL security guys have a lot of guys to investigate a few things.

No charges filed? So what. Whether it happened or not is almost irrelevant to whether charges are filed. The determining factor is what the prosecutor believes he can prove beyond a reasonable doubt with the admissible evidence he has.

Goodell is obviously beyond the naive attitude of relying on the judicial system to determine what happened. His action today shows what he believes happened, based on the investigation the NFL did.

I believe Odell busted back into that party with a gun, paid off the people at the party to keep quiet, then stupidly thought he could rely on the old argument of "well, no charges were filed."

At this point, Michael Vick is the best thing to ever happen to us. Cut Thurman now and let the media follow the Falcons around all year. You know who you don't hear much about in this conversation? The Bears. Tank was shown the door and they are pretty much left out of this whole thing.

You have a vivid imagination concerning what happened on the night Odell was accused of beating those kids up. Odell doesn't have that much money to pay off a party full of people to keep quiet about an assult, maybe just maybe those kids were lying because they knew the situation he was in and they knew he was an easy target.

You honestly believe that in the deep rural South a black NFL linebacker can go a house party full of white kids, sexual molest some guys girlfriend, then beat him up in front of his friends, then return with a gun, and police won't be called to the scene, and who were you calling naive again?

Face it Goodell is full of s**t, he has no rhyme or reason to his "get tough" policy and he's out of control. He already banned alcohol, what's next no cursing. He needs to take the stick out of his ass and realize that this is a game and it's entertainment not the Marine Corp. I hate to see the day he gets in trouble, who's going to suspend him?

[Stripes]

I believe Odell busted back into that party with a gun, paid off the people at the party to keep quiet, then stupidly thought he could rely on the old argument of "well, no charges were filed."

As is your right, but without any charges being filed or police on the scene, I can't fathom how that could ever work into the punishment of a person in any job setting. If Roger Goodell is really putting a player's career in jeapordy with no more evidence than juvenile hearsay, then I refuse to embrace [blind] objectivity in favor of justified angst.

[BengalByTheBay]

This wasn't a "consequence of the substance abuse policy" -- you know it, I know it and the American people know it. The first year -- yes.

OK, it wasn't but it was? Now you aren't even making sense.

But, we're not here discussing that are we? No, unless there is more here (which I already said would make a difference), Odell was effectively punished (and it's as severe a punishment as any ever levied by Goodell for anything) because a couple of guys claim that he kicked their ass. They subsequently withdrew their complaint and there has been no further activity.

There's no rule that says you automatically get back in after being suspended under the drug policy. That's why you have to apply for reinstatement. As long as Goodell applies the principle he's set forth here today in subsequent decisions (i.e. don't live like a saint = no reinstatement) there's nothing arbitrary about it. D**h-headed, yes. Arbitrary, no.

Following your logic anything that Odell (or anybody else who has a strike under the substance abuse policy) ever does prospectively would be a "consequence of the substance abuse policy." Come on, you're trying to be too clever there don't you think? Did this suspension result from any positive substance abuse test or anything related to substance abuse (like a DUI)? That's what we're talking about right? Otherwise, you're just trying to be obtuse, overly technical, and overly general at turns.

I suppose we'll have to wait for at least one more re-instatement situation before you can be proven wrong about that. However, as to levying punishment in general -- Goodell is all over the place.

[BritBengal]

Hmm,

Maybe he needed to be involved in a murder (hello, Mr R Lewis) or be a steroid pumping jock who's election to the Pro Bowl was a disgrace (that would be you, Mr Merriman).

The new Commissioner looks more and more out of his depth everyday - a backroom desk jockey brought blinking into the light.

[BengalByTheBay]

Hmm,

Maybe he needed to be involved in a murder (hello, Mr R Lewis) or be a steroid pumping jock who's election to the Pro Bowl was a disgrace (that would be you, Mr Merriman).

The new Commissioner looks more and more out of his depth everyday - a backroom desk jockey brought blinking into the light.

Good points. I think where Goodell miscalculated was in his belief that he could totally eradicate a problem that has been around the NFL and sports in general for quite a while with a few harsh penalties. How long ago was the Ray Ray SB stabbing thing anyway -- like 7-8 years ago? The current situation is just more severe in volume rather than some brand new "end of the world" crisis. I would imagine these things ebb and flow in terms of how much crap is going on, but it's not going to go away. Take a bunch of young guys, give them huge $$, and then tell them not to get in trouble -- yeah, that's gonna work out.

Goodell isn't going to ride to the rescue by slapping around a little "tough love" -- especially not when you can't really tell with any degree of certainty what punishment is going to result from any given situation. In fact, I sense that the "what's Goodell going to do about this one" scenario is starting to create its own little sense of sport. Perhaps, we can figure out a way to wager on it?

[cincy9275]

the punishment does not fit the crime this is a total slap in the face towards the bengals player fans and team. mr brown should pony up the money for odell to hire the best lawyer and out then sue the s**t out of godell and the nfl. now we know the reason porter was not suspened was so black players would not play the race card and call godell a bigot and racist. because when a white player has his sentence reduced to 2 game for multiple dui's then there is somthing wrong.

[bengal4life]

This sounds like it has to do with polatics. With Fukdell getting everything he could ever imagine come true. "I'll give $1,000,000 if you do this for me and I'll help appoint you for commissioner." Fukdell is such a hipocrite it's not even funny. Is the NFL coming down to the old school's boxing's level?

With this s**t going on I'm going to go ahead and assume that either the Chargers or especially New Orleans are going to win the Super Bowl.

[HoosierCat]

Daugherty's take, from his blog...

The league and the Bengals are saying zip about this, so I know about as much as you do. First reaction is, Thurman was a victim first of his own bad choices and second of circumstance. If you want to play football again and you know what you have to do to achieve that end, you do not put yourself in any situation that could even be interpreted as compromising. Don't go to a party where you might get in trouble. For that matter, distance yourself from your small hometown, where everyone knows you, some want something from you and your every move is noted. Secondly, it's not Thurman's fault M. Vick fought dogs, supposedly, or P. Jones made trouble in a strip club, allegedly. It is his problem. Commish Goodell paints w/broad brush, doesnt want to antagonize mega-sponsors and jeopardize NFL's enviable cash cow. He's on a mission for truth, justice and the American dollar. Other than that, the Bengals won't miss Thurman, because you can't lose something you never had.

[Ox]

He had to have done something else. He had to have. Else, this is a gross display of power that this dude needs to back off of. I mean what else is this kid supposed to do to comply?

I swear it's sh*t like this that makes Bengal fans come up with so many anti-bengal conspiracy theories.

[HoosierCat]

Following your logic anything that Odell (or anybody else who has a strike under the substance abuse policy) ever does prospectively would be a "consequence of the substance abuse policy." Come on, you're trying to be too clever there don't you think? Did this suspension result from any positive substance abuse test or anything related to substance abuse (like a DUI)? That's what we're talking about right? Otherwise, you're just trying to be obtuse, overly technical, and overly general at turns.

Look, the reason Odell got suspended was because he burned through all his strikes under the league's drug policy, right? And when you do that, you don't just get a "normal" suspension. You are kicked out of the NFL and must apply for reinstatement to get back in. (Again, see the Ricky Williams case.) There was no "new" or extended" suspension today; Odell's request to rejoin the league was denied. That's why the headlines read "Odell denied" not "Odell's suspension extended." If I'm being obtuse or overly technical, I suppose there are a lot of sportswriters that are, too.

How Goodell applies this new wrinkle (call it, "to reinstate, you must be a saint") in the future remains to be seen, but I'll make the prediction that it will be applied in the same way his "conduct detrimental" powers are: schlubs like Thurman will have to appear in halo with a written letter of forgiveness from the Lord Himself; superstars will be welcomed back as long as they didn't kill anyone (or any dogs).

[commish118]

There is nothing for his lawyers to do. There is no appeal and he has no rights. I't's part of the binding agreement players have with the NFL, agreeing to abbide by their rules. His only hope is with the Players Association. They are the only one who cn appeal or take legal action against the league and the NFL Players Association is the weakest union for any Pro Sport. We haven't heard a word out of them. Bad sign.

A couple of points:

- There is more to the story, but we won't hear it from the league. The league won't violate his privacy. The only way we will hear anything is if he or his lawyers decide to tell us.

- His involvment at that party could be the issue. You know they investigated this last incident in GA. They probably interviewed those involved. If they found out Thurman settled with a payment to drop the charges, that could be enough. If anyone at the party told them that Thurman was drinking a beer, that would be enough. We may never know.

- He has been away from football for a year. Who knows what kind of shape he is in, and he hasn't practiced with the team for over a year. He would be pretty far behind.

- If he would have come back it would have been as a back-up. We could have used him as a back-up, but I really don't know how much of an impact he would have had this season.

-Marvin has been saying for the past year that he is no longer in their plans. They were, and still are ready to move on without him. He would have helped, but the success of this team is not contingent on Thurman.

He's a young guy. For his sake I hope he is clean and can stay clean. Maybe he can come back, maybe he can't. At this point I just hope he has straightened out his life.

[BengalByTheBay]

Following your logic anything that Odell (or anybody else who has a strike under the substance abuse policy) ever does prospectively would be a "consequence of the substance abuse policy." Come on, you're trying to be too clever there don't you think? Did this suspension result from any positive substance abuse test or anything related to substance abuse (like a DUI)? That's what we're talking about right? Otherwise, you're just trying to be obtuse, overly technical, and overly general at turns.

Look, the reason Odell got suspended was because he burned through all his strikes under the league's drug policy, right? And when you do that, you don't just get a "normal" suspension. You are kicked out of the NFL and must apply for reinstatement to get back in. (Again, see the Ricky Williams case.) There was no "new" or extended" suspension today; Odell's request to rejoin the league was denied. That's why the headlines read "Odell denied" not "Odell's suspension extended." If I'm being obtuse or overly technical, I suppose there are a lot of sportswriters that are, too.

How Goodell applies this new wrinkle (call it, "to reinstate, you must be a saint") in the future remains to be seen, but I'll make the prediction that it will be applied in the same way his "conduct detrimental" powers are: schlubs like Thurman will have to appear in halo with a written letter of forgiveness from the Lord Himself; superstars will be welcomed back as long as they didn't kill anyone (or any dogs).

I know you are perpetuating this argument for its own sake at this point. However, the very obvious point that you are intentionally ignoring is that he did nothing (as far as we know) in violation of the substance abuse policy to suddenly become un-reinstatable. Apparently, Goodell thinks that the fight allegations constitute "ongoing problems", but they certainly do not constitute a failure to adhere to the substance abuse policy. I know you know this and I know you are trying to argue that "but for" the substance abuse suspension he wouldn't be in this position. I call that overly technical in light of the above. You say otherwise. I just don't think you really believe yourself. I think you just like to argue how many angels can dance on Odell Thurman's pinhead.

All that said -- it really doesn't matter because I have been convinced since they took his nameplate off his locker in Sept. of last year that he was never coming back to this team. At least now there's no concern with him showing up in a Squeelers jersey anytime soon.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Losing Odell hurts. But the message is clear and I agree with it: To play in this sport you have to act like a decent human being.

IMHO the problem is that the very make up of a person that makes them an exceptional football player is sometimes the very same make up that doesn't allow for "decent" behavior.

[HoosierCat]

I know you are perpetuating this argument for its own sake at this point.

Heaven knows I've never done that before, eh? But I'm not sure we actually disagree all that much. I agree (with you, I think) that Goodell's decision not to reinstate Odell was BS (I kind of thought that attaching "bulls**t to the topic title expressed that) and that IMHO the Georgia fight allegations don't constitute cause to keep him out of the league.

But that said, there is no provision for "automatic" reinstatement. The kind of suspension called for under the drug policy, in which the player is effectively kicked out and must petition for re-entry, is unique. And nowhere does it say that, if the player stays clean, he must be reinstated. That decision is up to the commish -- and as far as I know there are no conditions attached to his power to reinstate.

In other words, if his power is arbitrary (as you maintain) then that arbitrariness derives directly from the CBA, which imposes no conditions or restrictions on his reinstatement power. Theoretically, Goodell would be within his rights to refuse to reinstate Odell if Odell bought a shirt he didn't like.

If anyone is to blame for Roger Goodell, it's the player's union. Not only have they acceded to actions which arguably violate the CBA, but they agreed in the first place to a CBA that grants the commish vast and vaguely-defined powers. Not just in terms of reinstatement, but also in terms of the vague "conduct detrimental" clause invoked to bust guys like Tank, Pacman and Henry.

[Sandwedge]

There HAS to be something else to this. No way he is given another year for the DUI. We will know soon if he failed another test.

This may be good for Cincy in the long run. I hope Henry takes a good long look at who he hangs with from now on.

I'm thinking along those same lines... Something had to have happened that the commish didn't like... I only hope we find out

sometime in the near future, but I don't think it's gonna come from the club or the NFL..

[rishipatel]

I can't believe this. I just got home from work and saw this headline, and this is just a bunch of crap!

I agree that it seems there must be something that happened that has not been made public knowledge, but I hope we find out at some point what the issue was, because otherwise this just looks completely unfair and will have us all speculating well into the season.

If this new power-drunk commish wants to follow a tough line, that's fine. But then suspend f*#king Joey Porter for at least a few games, and kick Vick's ass to the curb until he is cleared.

I'm sick of this team being the butt of the jokes for bad character, but we haven't had anything serious in almost 6 mo, which is better than half the other teams in the league; and none of our players' offenses have resulted in any bodily harm to themselves or to bystanders. Unlike other teams whose players' actions have led to people getting shot, getting attacked, and getting killed! I think the commish could cut us some slack.

The long-suffering fans of the bengals, are only being forced to suffer some more when we finally have a good competitive team. But how can Marvin get the team where he envisioned when his drafted players are not allowed to play? I'm not defending their actions, but they've already served suspensions. Let these guys get their lives back on track, and if they screw up again, kick 'em out for good.

My 2 cents. WHO-DEY!

[agreen_112]

He had to have done something else. He had to have. Else, this is a gross display of power that this dude needs to back off of. I mean what else is this kid supposed to do to comply?

I swear it's sh*t like this that makes Bengal fans come up with so many anti-bengal conspiracy theories.

I'm with you Ox. If Odell failed another Drug test, I hope that Brooks makes all of us forget who OT ever was!!!

Bengals fans, we should be used to this by now, we always get screwed.