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Michael Vick


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Ball's in Goodell's court now.

Shameless link to a blog I am real familiar with for the quick links to the details:

http://www.sportsfrog.com/2007/07/michael_vick_indicted.php

A Federal indictment eh? That's serious stuff. How many other players currently active in the NFL have been so indicted? Possibly in the ongoing investigation of steroids, but other than that, I cannot think of any. Michael Vick should be worried at this point, because he's most likely looking at some time off from football!

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It's about time! Now they need to go after the local prosecutor for not doing anything. He actually criticized the Feds for stepping into the investigation. Luckily they did.

You are absolutely right, he is going to miss some football. These Federal charges are serious and he will do time if convicted, and he should. I have a major problem with anyone involved in the mistreatment of animals! It really shows you what kind of animal he is.

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Looks like the NFL will (no surprise) play the "let's let the legal process play out" card. But I have to think he's busted. From that detailed, grisly description of his alleged behavior, it sounds like the Feds got one or more people to squeal on Ron Mexico.

Then again, Vick's not short on coin. Time for the best lawyers money can buy.

If he gets off...I bet Goodell does nothing.

If he cuts some kind of deal, like pleading to a lesser charge in exchange for a big fine and probation...he'll get the boot for 8 games.

If he's convicted...well, obviously he ain't gonna be on the field...but I wouldn't bet on that outcome.

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Ball's in Goodell's court now.

Shameless link to a blog I am real familiar with for the quick links to the details:

http://www.sportsfrog.com/2007/07/michael_vick_indicted.php

A Federal indictment eh? That's serious stuff. How many other players currently active in the NFL have been so indicted? Possibly in the ongoing investigation of steroids, but other than that, I cannot think of any. Michael Vick should be worried at this point, because he's most likely looking at some time off from football!

Jamal Lewis had a federal drug charge I believe that sent him to jail. It was for communications over state lines for the purpose of trafficking drugs?

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Looks like the NFL will (no surprise) play the "let's let the legal process play out" card. But I have to think he's busted. From that detailed, grisly description of his alleged behavior, it sounds like the Feds got one or more people to squeal on Ron Mexico.

Then again, Vick's not short on coin. Time for the best lawyers money can buy.

If he gets off...I bet Goodell does nothing.

If he cuts some kind of deal, like pleading to a lesser charge in exchange for a big fine and probation...he'll get the boot for 8 games.

If he's convicted...well, obviously he ain't gonna be on the field...but I wouldn't bet on that outcome.

According to one of ESPN's legal eagles, there are already 4 witnesses lined up who *aren't* being charged. From the details on ESPN, they appear to know what's going on - they talked about how the dogs were killed if they weren't winning and other grisly details.

More insidiously, there are 3 co-defendents. That's interesting for two reasons: 1) it means that there are people who probably know even more than the witnesses they have now, and that evidence alone was enough to indict. 2) with three co-defendants, it will probably be easy for the feds to get one or more of them to roll on Vick. So there's a really good chance he's looking at 7 people testifying on him.

I'd say he's in deep caca.

That said, if he does wriggle free, it will be tough for Goodell to do anything. He has no convictions, and according to the Conduct Policy only prior offenders get suspended with no conviction. The only possible exception as I recall would be violence, but I don't think dogs count.

As far as lawyers, ESPN's article points out quite correctly that the Feds have far better lawyers than the local yokels...ask Skilling, Martha Stewart, Scooter Libby, or countless others. Also, ask the same people about the Feds' willingness to plead these public cases to something less than jail time. Not happening, I wouldn't think.

Bottom line is, there is a very strong chance that Vick spends more than 8 games' worth of time in the pen - forget suspended.

Moral of the story - if you're going to organize a criminal enterprise, don't even send your mother a postcard across state lines.

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I'd say he's in deep caca.

That said, if he does wriggle free, it will be tough for Goodell to do anything. He has no convictions, and according to the Conduct Policy only prior offenders get suspended with no conviction. The only possible exception as I recall would be violence, but I don't think dogs count.

Yeah, no doubt he's in deep sheot. One other thing to consider on the Goodell thing is that dogfighting involves one of the NFL's least favorite words, "gambling," a fact noted by Florio over at PFT. And being involved in an illegal gaming operation is definitely a no-no under league rules.

If Goodell wanted to drop the hammer, I think he could make a case for it, even right now. While Vick doesn't have the arrest history of guys like Pacman or Henry, he's certainly generated more than his share of bad PR for the league. From the whole "Ron Mexico" episode to flipping off fans on TV to the infamous water-bottle incident, Vick established himself as one of the league's high-profile numbskulls. And now this, which is not only more bad news for Vick but has also generated more "STFU moments" around the league, like Clinton Portis' "what's the big deal?" comment.

But...I don't think he will. Of course, like you say, Vick has higher priorities these days, like trying to make sure he doesnt end up in a cell with a dog lover whose nickname is Thunderd**k.

I thought this was a pretty good look at what might happen with the case itself (from a lawyer):

http://sportsyenta.blogspot.com/2007/07/ac...chael-vick.html

The guy's bet?

If I was representing Vick, the main goal would be to get him out of this case as fast as possible. A long drawn out pre-trial and then trial phase will be bad for his career, wallet, public image, and should he be convicted, his corn hole. More likely than not, getting Vick out early means having him pull a Ray Lewis and flip on his co-conspirators. This option is attractive to both the prosecutor and the defense in the early stages of the case, as it benefits both sides. Vick would get a lesser sentence (or maybe immunity) in exchange for spilling the beans, and the prosecutor gets a key witness who can help push the case over the higher burden of proof. If I was a betting man, I'd bet heavily that Vick flips on his buddies, gets little or no jail time, pays a monster fine, and ends up on probation for a good long time. His friends would end up taking the fall, going to jail and then Vick would then take care of them when they get out of the joint much, like Diddy let Shine go down for shooting up the club a few years back.

Yet another lawyer here, who has gone through the fine print of the indictment and provides details about the four cooperating witnesses:

From another board:

A friend of mine just sent this email out to our group. He's been an attorney for over 30 years and knows his stuff. Some of this was already touched upon by Cobra:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wholeheartedly agree that an indictment is no evidence of guilt, and that Vick is, in the eyes of the criminal justice system, innocent until proven guilty. With that obvious disclaimer, however, I will share with you my experience with federal prosecutors.

In state court, a defendant generally resigns himself to an indictment because the prosecutor has wide latitude to indict and much of the investigation is done post-indictment. Therefore, a defense lawyer doesn't really get to work defending the case and trying to get it disposed of until after the indictment goes down. Federal prosecutors are very different. The United States Attorney does not indict unless he (1) has already done 99% of his investigation and obtained 99% of the evidence he will use at trial, and (2) is convinced that the evidence he has obtained against the defendant will result in a conviction. As a result, in the federal system, the defense lawyer's efforts are largely geared towards preventing an indictment, since once an indictment is obtained the die is cast and your guy is going to federal-pound-you-in-the-***-prison.

And this indictment (which I pulled down from the Court's website) shows that to be the case here. The indictment identifies four "Cooperating Witness[es]." The first Cooperating Witness (referred to as CW#1 in the indictment) was the guy from whom Vick purchased four pit bulls in early 2002. (Indict at Para. 9.) In February 2002, Vick "rolled" or "tested" some of his pit bulls agaisnt other dogs owned by CW#1 to determine how well the dog fought. It is implied that CW#1 would be able to testify as to the disposal of underperforming dogs.

The second Cooperating Witness ("CW#2") observed Vick at two separate dog fights in June 2002. (Indict. at Para. 47.) At that fight, CW#2 agreed to a fight between his dogs and "Bad Newz Kennels'" (i.e., the outfit co-owned by Vick) dogs. Vick was present at the March 2003 fight between his dog and CW#2's. Vick's dog lost, and after consultation with Vick, Vick's coconspirator "executed the losing dog by wetting the dog down with water and electrocuting the animal." (Indict. at Para. 53.)

The third Cooperating Witness ("CW#3"), had a dog fight against Vick's in Fall 2003. (Indict. at Para. 67.) "During the fight, CW#3 was criticized by a person unknown to the Grand Jury from "Bad Newz Kennels" for CW#3's having yelled out VICK's name in front of the crowd during the dog fight." (Indict. at Para. 68.)

This brings us to Cooperating Witness #4 ("CW#4"), who owned a female pit bull named Trouble against one of Vick's dogs. Vick's dog lost, and Vick personally paid CW#4 the purse money of approximately $7,000. (Indict. at Para. 76.)

That's four witnesses--all of whom can put Vick at the scene of the dog fights and all of whom can testify to his active participation in said fights. And that's only the ones that the US Attorney feels confident enough to put in the Indictment--who knows how many other Cooperating Witnesses may be out there.

Personally, I suspect one of Vick's co-defendants will become CW#5 before the trial is done.

Swiped from the scout.com Falcons board: http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=122&F=1...p;STO=pagestart

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Great reads Hoosier, thanks for the links and excerpts.

A quick glance at the comments following an Atlanta Journal columnist on the matter this morning tells me that the heat surrounding this in Atlanta makes all of the Chris Henry stuff Bengals fans have dealt with seem like toddler play...

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Glad to help.

And yeah, Henry...Tank...even Pacman all look like angels next to Vick now.

Here's my favorite column on the Vick thing so far...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20...1s18canepa.html

Yeah, I'd have to say passing on Vick and taking LaDainian intsead turned out pretty good for SD...

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And thus solidifies Vick's lasting NFL legacy. No matter what the dude does from now on short of winning back to back to back superbowls, his history will start with something involving dogfighting. It's kinda sad, as the guy has all the talent in the world.

Who'da thought that Marcus would be the good Vick brother, all things considered?

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Where's Matt Schaub when you need him...ah yes, Houston!

After Atlanta held out for like three years, they finally trade him away and look what happens.

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And thus solidifies Vick's lasting NFL legacy. No matter what the dude does from now on short of winning back to back to back superbowls, his history will start with something involving dogfighting.

Look on the bright side - maybe now people won't be throwing his career 75 passer rating at him!

Vick would have been a better running back or wide out than QB. But he's great in fantasy because of his running ability.

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And thus solidifies Vick's lasting NFL legacy. No matter what the dude does from now on short of winning back to back to back superbowls, his history will start with something involving dogfighting.

Look on the bright side - maybe now people won't be throwing his career 75 passer rating at him!

Vick would have been a better running back or wide out than QB. But he's great in fantasy because of his running ability.

Well he's going to have to do that running without his New Line Of Nike Shoes! They've suddenly got cold feet so to speak.

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Where's Matt Schaub when you need him...ah yes, Houston!

After Atlanta held out for like three years, they finally trade him away and look what happens.

I was thinking the same thing. But the Falcons had to have some idea about this for as long as it suppossedly went on. I hate to use the word "spy" but I would think that teams should have some method of getting inside information on their own players. Especially someone like Vick that has been in trouble before.

BTW, who is the back-up QB in Atlanta anyway?

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Where's Matt Schaub when you need him...ah yes, Houston!

After Atlanta held out for like three years, they finally trade him away and look what happens.

I was thinking the same thing. But the Falcons had to have some idea about this for as long as it suppossedly went on. I hate to use the word "spy" but I would think that teams should have some method of getting inside information on their own players. Especially someone like Vick that has been in trouble before.

BTW, who is the back-up QB in Atlanta anyway?

Joey Harrington, Chris Redman, and D.J. Shockley. I bet all three of them will get their chance to start this season.

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Goodell orders Vick not to report to camp

NFL.com wire reports

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/10266380

"NEW YORK (July 23, 2007) -- Commissioner Roger Goodell has ordered Michael Vick of the Atlanta Falcons not to report to the team’s training camp pending the completion of an NFL review of his recent indictment by a federal grand jury in Richmond, Va., for allegedly participating in an interstate dog-fighting enterprise.

Commissioner Goodell informed Vick that the review would be completed as soon as possible and that Vick’s full cooperation is expected.

In a letter to Vick today, Commissioner Goodell said: "While it is for the criminal justice system to determine your guilt or innocence, it is my responsibility as commissioner of the National Football League to determine whether your conduct, even if not criminal, nonetheless violated league policies, including the Personal Conduct Policy."

Vick will not forfeit his preseason pay during his excused absence from training camp.

Commissioner Goodell also directed the Falcons today to withhold any contemplated team discipline regarding the Vick matter until the NFL review is completed. "

I Love It. I hope his ass goes to jail.

Serves him right for that showing at the QB Challenge few years back were he threw like only one ball through the hole in the board and cost me 20 bucks. Yeah I bet on the QB Challenge.

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Serves him right for that showing at the QB Challenge few years back were he threw like only one ball through the hole in the board and cost me 20 bucks. Yeah I bet on the QB Challenge.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wait...let me get this straight. You bet on Michael Vick's....accuracy?!?!?! Good God, I can think of about 5 WRs who could have talked you out of that bet.

What was the over/under, 3 out of 50?

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Nice punt, Roger. :rolleyes:

An understandable move in that it buys the league some time, and keeps Atlanta's camp from turning into a complete media circus.

It also means that, if Vick misses all of camp (which I suspect is the point of this) then there's no way he'll be ready to start the season. Paging Joey Harrington, Harrington to the white courtesy phone. So the earliest Vick sees the field would be week 2. So that buys the league seven or so weeks, during which I am sure they are praying for some kind of plea bargain...at which point they can ban Vick for the season and forget about this until March.

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ANother one from Yahoo.com and yes I bet on Vick. It was sort of a round robbin type draft before the QB Challenge started and that's who I got for that particular event.

Michael Vick ordered to stay out of training camp

By DAVE GOLDBERG, AP Football Writer

July 23, 2007

AP - Jul 23, 8:03 pm EDT

More Photos

NEW YORK (AP) -- Michael Vick was ordered by commissioner Roger Goodell on Monday to stay away from the Atlanta Falcons' training camp until the league reviews the dogfighting charges against him.

"While it is for the criminal justice system to determine your guilt or innocence, it is my responsibility as commissioner of the National Football League to determine whether your conduct, even if not criminal, nonetheless violated league policies, including the Personal Conduct Policy," Goodell said in a letter to the quarterback.

The NFL said Vick would still get his preseason pay and Goodell told the Falcons to withhold any disciplinary action of their own until the league's review was completed.

Goodell told Vick the league would complete its review as quickly as possible and that he expected full cooperation.

The Falcons open camp on Thursday, the same day Vick is scheduled to be arraigned in Richmond, Va., on charges of sponsoring a dogfighting operation.

ADVERTISEMENT

Vick, the No. 1 overall pick in the 2001 draft, last season became the first quarterback ever to rush for more than 1,000 yards.

After his indictment last week, the NFL's position was that it would monitor developments and allow the legal process to "determine the facts."

Since then, pressure has been mounting on the league and the Falcons, particularly from animal-rights groups.

PETA -- People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals -- demonstrated at Falcons' headquarters in Flowery Branch, Ga., on Monday and did the same outside NFL offices in New York last week. At the same time, Goodell was meeting with officials from the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. The league and the ASPCA are working on a program to educate players about the proper treatment of animals.

Activists also put pressure on companies that have endorsements deals with Vick to sever their ties. Nike said it would not release a fifth signature shoe, the Air Zoom Vick V, this summer. Nike spokesman Dean Stoyer said the four shoe products and three shirts that currently bear Vick's name will remain in stores.

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