2020 Draft

[AMPHAR]

On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 10:40 AM, HoosierCat said:

As a long suffering Bengals fan, I am far less concerned about Burrow failing the organization than I am about the organization failing him.

The rebuilding job for the next QB is much deeper than what Palmer and Dalton faced.       But nothing like what Kingler and Akili faced. 

Palmer, IMO, simply was jaded at some point and walked out on exactly what he said he wanted.  He came in 2003 with an established offense system ready for the major parts to hit their prime.   Then walked out on what would be some the best rosters in the NFL.     As a result Dalton reaped the rewards. 

Burrow will have a true superstar in Mixon.   The line is pure crap.   The receiving core is in flux.   IF Green and Ross stay healthy he could have a good group.  IF they can't then it's going to be tough.     Tate is a big target and will be a factor.   Boyd is proven.   Neither of these dictate coverage as much as Green.  Ross despite is inconsistencies does draw attention from defense. 

The organization will fail Burrow and Mixon IF they can't build a decent line.     

[AMPHAR]

Still in the same spot.    They have to land a QB out of this class.  They have to stay in the top 5 IF a trade down happens.   After watching the bowl games, the general consensus is that ALL the major QB prospects except Tua impressed in their games.      My standing:

Burrow - A+

Juedy - A+

Young - A+

If I can get a combination of a Young/Juedy with Fromm or Eason that's A++. 

I'm sure there will be at least 1 tackle grade out top 5.  

The circumstances with any of these players IS the needs are deep with this roster and no singular pick is going to fix everything quickly. 

It's a good year to be in the top 5 of the draft several scenarios that could lead to a good rebuild.   

[cincyhokie]

12 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

The rebuilding job for the next QB is much deeper than what Palmer and Dalton faced.       But nothing like what Kingler and Akili faced. 

Palmer, IMO, simply was jaded at some point and walked out on exactly what he said he wanted.  He came in 2003 with an established offense system ready for the major parts to hit their prime.   Then walked out on what would be some the best rosters in the NFL.     As a result Dalton reaped the rewards. 

Burrow will have a true superstar in Mixon.   The line is pure crap.   The receiving core is in flux.   IF Green and Ross stay healthy he could have a good group.  IF they can't then it's going to be tough.     Tate is a big target and will be a factor.   Boyd is proven.   Neither of these dictate coverage as much as Green.  Ross despite is inconsistencies does draw attention from defense. 

The organization will fail Burrow and Mixon IF they can't build a decent line.     

Agreed. Though, as it stands right now, they'll get Williams to start the season. So that's a good starting point. They need at least 2 more quality starters and a couple of depth pieces.

[cincyhokie]

My stance on Burrow is that he is the complete package with the most important aspect he possesses. Leadership and work ethic. And it's not even close with the rest of the prospects. This team needs Joe Burrow. AND they need to improve the O line. Get better this season. Keep building in 2021 with Burrow as your stud QB.

If you haven't, I highly recommend reading up on Burrow and what he's done since he's been in college in terms of his mindset and his acumen for the game. His impact at LSU has gone above and beyond his numbers. He's been just as much an influence on that coaching staff and team as they've been on him. He's almost a coach within a player. Look into it. It's impressive. The rest of the prospects don't have this going for them.

[membengal]

Every time Amphar talks about Fromm like he is a serious option for this team and the future, a puppy dies. 

[membengal]

22 minutes ago, cincyhokie said:

My stance on Burrow is that he is the complete package with the most important aspect he possesses. Leadership and work ethic. And it's not even close with the rest of the prospects. This team needs Joe Burrow. AND they need to improve the O line. Get better this season. Keep building in 2021 with Burrow as your stud QB.

If you haven't, I highly recommend reading up on Burrow and what he's done since he's been in college in terms of his mindset and his acumen for the game. His impact at LSU has gone above and beyond his numbers. He's been just as much an influence on that coaching staff and team as they've been on him. He's almost a coach within a player. Look into it. It's impressive. The rest of the prospects don't have this going for them.

All the above and especially the bold. He's...different. Literally, the exact kind of QB you can build the future around. They don't come along often and passing on him to take a chance on Fromm or Love or whomever is insane. 

[HoosierCat]

1. Extend Andy

2. Let AJ walk

3. Draft Jeudy first overall

4. Buy popcorn

5. Set up lawn chair

6. Watch the world burn

[AMPHAR]

10 minutes ago, membengal said:

Every time Amphar talks about Fromm like he is a serious option for this team and the future, a puppy dies. 

Or a Burrow Bengals T-shirt gets thrown out.

[HoosierCat]

CBS had a piece this a.m. on who might be interested in trading up and what it might cost, depending on which trade value chart you’re using. Some attractive deals but in the end nothing so eye-popping that I’d say yes. That said, you never know when someone is going to offer you a Ditka and we all know how turning that down worked last time...so never say never.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2020-nfl-draft-who-could-trade-up-for-joe-burrow-at-no-1-and-what-such-a-move-would-cost/

[Wraith]

Joe Burrow is the best QB Prospect I have scouted since Andrew Luck (I am a hardcore draft nerd and have scouting profiles for drafts going back to the 90's).  He seems to have the "it" factor that all highly successful QBs seem to have (Competitive Fire, Passion for the Game, intense competitive nature etc.).  He checks off all the boxes: Arm Strength: check (I don't care what the scouting reports say from the start of the season, watching his tape I see no issue with arm strength what so ever, his balls go deep downfield with almost no fluttering), Mobility: check, Leadership: check plus, Football IQ: Check Plus, Accuracy: check plus, etc..  

For the Bengals, specifically, he is an even better prospect; local kid (relatively), ties back to the community, etc.  

This all being said, the question that keeps rattling around in my brain is around Andrew Luck....  Andrew Luck was a perfect QB Prospect.  Body Shape, Athleticism, Football IQ, long time Power 5 starter with a great book of film, son of an NFL QB, I could go on...he was perfect and yet he did not propel a mediocre Colts organization to Elite status.  Now, some of that is due to injuries that derailed and eventually ended his career, but that facts are that, while not a bust Andrew Luck did not fix the Colts.

With Burrow, we have one year of mediocre tape and one year of tape that is superb (probably the best ever coming from an SEC QB).   Was it the system?  Is Joe Brady just that good?  Particularly about injuries, while there are no red flags (there weren't for Luck either), his body has taken a lot fewer hits than a normal senior college QB so, can he stand up to the rigors of an NFL season?  These things NO ONE can answer.  Do I think Burrow will be a good/great NFL QB...Yes I do.  Will I be thrilled if he is their pick at #1...yes I will be.   If someone is willing to back the Brinks truck with picks up to the Bengals door and the deal is right, you take it...  Let's face it the Bengals scouting department needs all the help it can get.  Again, I don't think that will happen...the only team with the draft capital capable of making the blockbuster trade that would be required it Miami and the reason they traded all the trade-able assets on the team was to build draft capital for this draft....I think Burrow will be the pick and I think that is awesome.

Onto #33....OLine or Linebackers.  The third round for skill position (WR or TE)  I think Murray from Oklahoma will end up dropping and either Alex Leatherwood, Josh Jones, Jedrick Wills, Sam Cosmi, or Austin Jackson will be there for the Bengals at #33.  My preference is in the order I stated previously with Leatherwood and Jones the top two prospects (it is a given at this point that Thomas and Wirfs are going to be long gone by #33).  I would like us to spend the second pick on OLine but if a top Linebacker prospect were to drop they might go that direction and that would be ok given the state of our Linebacker corps.  If they go LB at #33 then Mekhi Becton from Louisville or Lucas Niang from TCU would be strong 3rd Rd. prospects to go after.

 

[cincyhokie]

4 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Joe Burrow is the best QB Prospect I have scouted since Andrew Luck (I am a hardcore draft nerd and have scouting profiles for drafts going back to the 90's).  He seems to have the "it" factor that all highly successful QBs seem to have (Competitive Fire, Passion for the Game, intense competitive nature etc.).  He checks off all the boxes: Arm Strength: check (I don't care what the scouting reports say from the start of the season, watching his tape I see no issue with arm strength what so ever, his balls go deep downfield with almost no fluttering), Mobility: check, Leadership: check plus, Football IQ: Check Plus, Accuracy: check plus, etc..  

For the Bengals, specifically, he is an even better prospect; local kid (relatively), ties back to the community, etc.  

This all being said, the question that keeps rattling around in my brain is around Andrew Luck....  Andrew Luck was a perfect QB Prospect.  Body Shape, Athleticism, Football IQ, long time Power 5 starter with a great book of film, son of an NFL QB, I could go on...he was perfect and yet he did not propel a mediocre Colts organization to Elite status.  Now, some of that is due to injuries that derailed and eventually ended his career, but that facts are that, while not a bust Andrew Luck did not fix the Colts.

With Burrow, we have one year of mediocre tape and one year of tape that is superb (probably the best ever coming from an SEC QB).   Was it the system?  Is Joe Brady just that good?  Particularly about injuries, while there are no red flags (there weren't for Luck either), his body has taken a lot fewer hits than a normal senior college QB so, can he stand up to the rigors of an NFL season?  These things NO ONE can answer.  Do I think Burrow will be a good/great NFL QB...Yes I do.  Will I be thrilled if he is their pick at #1...yes I will be.   If someone is willing to back the Brinks truck with picks up to the Bengals door and the deal is right, you take it...  Let's face it the Bengals scouting department needs all the help it can get.  Again, I don't think that will happen...the only team with the draft capital capable of making the blockbuster trade that would be required it Miami and the reason they traded all the trade-able assets on the team was to build draft capital for this draft....I think Burrow will be the pick and I think that is awesome.

Onto #33....OLine or Linebackers.  The third round for skill position (WR or TE)  I think Murray from Oklahoma will end up dropping and either Alex Leatherwood, Josh Jones, Jedrick Wills, Sam Cosmi, or Austin Jackson will be there for the Bengals at #33.  My preference is in the order I stated previously with Leatherwood and Jones the top two prospects (it is a given at this point that Thomas and Wirfs are going to be long gone by #33).  I would like us to spend the second pick on OLine but if a top Linebacker prospect were to drop they might go that direction and that would be ok given the state of our Linebacker corps.  If they go LB at #33 then Mekhi Becton from Louisville or Lucas Niang from TCU would be strong 3rd Rd. prospects to go after.

 

Agreed. You take BPA for OL or LB at #33. Someone good will drop into their lap.

[Wraith]

Thad Moss would be a REAL interesting pickup in the third if we end up selecting Burrow at #1....

[cincyhokie]

Also, we need to be rooting for a barrage of QBs to be selected in round 1. That’ll set the Bengals up nicely for pick #33.

[AMPHAR]

 

15 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Joe Burrow is the best QB Prospect I have scouted since Andrew Luck (I am a hardcore draft nerd and have scouting profiles for drafts going back to the 90's).  He seems to have the "it" factor that all highly successful QBs seem to have (Competitive Fire, Passion for the Game, intense competitive nature etc.).  He checks off all the boxes: Arm Strength: check (I don't care what the scouting reports say from the start of the season, watching his tape I see no issue with arm strength what so ever, his balls go deep downfield with almost no fluttering), Mobility: check, Leadership: check plus, Football IQ: Check Plus, Accuracy: check plus, etc..  

For the Bengals, specifically, he is an even better prospect; local kid (relatively), ties back to the community, etc.  

This all being said, the question that keeps rattling around in my brain is around Andrew Luck....  Andrew Luck was a perfect QB Prospect.  Body Shape, Athleticism, Football IQ, long time Power 5 starter with a great book of film, son of an NFL QB, I could go on...he was perfect and yet he did not propel a mediocre Colts organization to Elite status.  Now, some of that is due to injuries that derailed and eventually ended his career, but that facts are that, while not a bust Andrew Luck did not fix the Colts.

With Burrow, we have one year of mediocre tape and one year of tape that is superb (probably the best ever coming from an SEC QB).   Was it the system?  Is Joe Brady just that good?  Particularly about injuries, while there are no red flags (there weren't for Luck either), his body has taken a lot fewer hits than a normal senior college QB so, can he stand up to the rigors of an NFL season?  These things NO ONE can answer.  Do I think Burrow will be a good/great NFL QB...Yes I do.  Will I be thrilled if he is their pick at #1...yes I will be.   If someone is willing to back the Brinks truck with picks up to the Bengals door and the deal is right, you take it...  Let's face it the Bengals scouting department needs all the help it can get.  Again, I don't think that will happen...the only team with the draft capital capable of making the blockbuster trade that would be required it Miami and the reason they traded all the trade-able assets on the team was to build draft capital for this draft....I think Burrow will be the pick and I think that is awesome.

Onto #33....OLine or Linebackers.  The third round for skill position (WR or TE)  I think Murray from Oklahoma will end up dropping and either Alex Leatherwood, Josh Jones, Jedrick Wills, Sam Cosmi, or Austin Jackson will be there for the Bengals at #33.  My preference is in the order I stated previously with Leatherwood and Jones the top two prospects (it is a given at this point that Thomas and Wirfs are going to be long gone by #33).  I would like us to spend the second pick on OLine but if a top Linebacker prospect were to drop they might go that direction and that would be ok given the state of our Linebacker corps.  If they go LB at #33 then Mekhi Becton from Louisville or Lucas Niang from TCU would be strong 3rd Rd. prospects to go after.

 

Andrew Luck did get them to a Conference Championship during a season they a bunch of different line combos.  The first stop was taking down Dalton and the Bengals and Luck only had a RB the Bengals cut. 

Tom Brady and the Patriots dynasty has kept a lot of other QBs from the Superbowl.  

[Wraith]

10 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

 

Andrew Luck did get them to a Conference Championship during a season they a bunch of different line combos.  The first stop was taking down Dalton and the Bengals and Luck only had a RB the Bengals cut. 

Tom Brady and the Patriots dynasty has kept a lot of other QBs from the Superbowl.  

That said a Guard selection with the sixth overall pick in 2018 did more to shore up the Colts long term than did Luck IMHO

[AMPHAR]

I don't think Joe Burrow is comparable to Andrew Luck as a "prospect".    At every turn in Burrow's football life the football evaluators have other guys listed as elite.

Maybe that's what makes him special?    It's not his underwear and t-shirt performance that has got him to the top of the NFL draft and the Heisman.   It's overcoming those flaws and maybe the sum of the parts deal.

I think drafting Joe Burrow is a like taking a Mayfield over Sam Darnold.   It's weighed on variable factors vs. physical skill.    

Please note:  Burrow has been a better prospect than Mayfield his entire football life too.   I'm not saying Mayfield is better just that Mayfield got drafted based more on variable factors vs. physical skill.

Burrow is also not a once in a while prospect either.   Next year you'll have Trevor Lawerence who is considered the generational talent.

That's going to be a massive NCAA Championship game.

 

[AMPHAR]

20 minutes ago, Wraith said:

That said a Guard selection with the sixth overall pick in 2018 did more to shore up the Colts long term than did Luck IMHO

No way.     The Colts went 2-14 in 2011.   Tanked the season.   Drafted Luck.

2012 - Playoffs

2013 - Divisional Round

2014 - Conference Championship

2015-2017 - Luck plays 22 games out of 48 possible.   0 winning records

2018 Luck returns for a full 16.  Divisional round playoffs

2019 - Luck retires.   Back to losing.

Luck was as advertised and IF you grade Burrow that high then you should want the Bengals to draft Burrow.  

IF the Bengals draft Burrow after going 2-14 and his first 3 seasons are

Wild Card Round,  Divisional Round, and Conference Championship.   Come on that's crazy good.

 

[cincyhokie]

What have we seen so far that would lead anyone to not take Burrow with the #1 pick?

[membengal]

14 minutes ago, cincyhokie said:

What have we seen so far that would lead anyone to not take Burrow with the #1 pick?

Zero.

only thing is some seem to think he’s not all that and bengals would be better off trading back to teams who do think he’s all that and running 2011 back again with Jeudy and a dalton doppelgänger in the second round.

i do NOT want a ride on that train.

[membengal]

58 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

No way.     The Colts went 2-14 in 2011.   Tanked the season.   Drafted Luck.

2012 - Playoffs

2013 - Divisional Round

2014 - Conference Championship

2015-2017 - Luck plays 22 games out of 48 possible.   0 winning records

2018 Luck returns for a full 16.  Divisional round playoffs

2019 - Luck retires.   Back to losing.

Luck was as advertised and IF you grade Burrow that high then you should want the Bengals to draft Burrow.  

IF the Bengals draft Burrow after going 2-14 and his first 3 seasons are

Wild Card Round,  Divisional Round, and Conference Championship.   Come on that's crazy good.

 

This post is on point (no puppies had to die because of it - progress!).

its also why I don’t in a million years consider trading back and passing on Burrow. I want to try and get the next Luck (roll the dice at #1 overall) as opposed to the next Dalton (hoping a flawed qb at top of round 2 works out).

[AMPHAR]

38 minutes ago, membengal said:

This post is on point (no puppies had to die because of it - progress!).

its also why I don’t in a million years consider trading back and passing on Burrow. I want to try and get the next Luck (roll the dice at #1 overall) as opposed to the next Dalton (hoping a flawed qb at top of round 2 works out).

You trade back because draft classes aren't created equal and the prospects potentially later in the first or at pick 33 crush Dalton as far as prospects are concerned AND this is a deeply flawed roster.

Burrow will have a deeper rebuild than Palmer and Dalton IF selected by the Bengals. 

 

[membengal]

I don’t think the roster is as remotely flawed as you do. I think even if it is that flawed the better way to fix it is to draft Burrow because he covers so many ills.

[membengal]

Further to my thesis that the roster (and in particular the o-line) isn't as flawed as people think it is:

 

[membengal]

 

[Wraith]

7 minutes ago, membengal said:

 

Dalton gets the ball out of his hands quickly, and particularly this year where it seemed that every pass was within 10 yards of the LoS.  Dalton knew his oline was garbage and did not even attempt to do a standard drop.  No, I do not buy the oline wasn't as bad as we think line because the tape does not back it up.  PFF had one of the worst grades ever as a unit for the 2019 Bengals Oline, ever for any team....  We just had a QB that adjusted his game to accommodate.