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HoosierCat

First Round #21: OT Cedric Ogbuehi

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I've been thinking about this pick a lot and while I will still dislike it due to Malcom Brown being there for the taking, it's intriguing.

There are many thoughts and write ups that say Fisher may be a better RT and even during the draft, it was brought up.

I can see a situation where Fisher actually takes over for Moobs, as I don't see him coming back in 2016. No reason with two top round picks.

Whit will remain with the team on a 2-3 year deal, while OogleyBoogley learns.

People forget that Whit was drafted in 2006 and didn't start a game at LT until 2009.

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I've been running through scenarios in my head and they keep boiling down to this:

Boling is going nowhere. He just signed a $26 million deal.

Bodine isn't going anywhere either. He may not have played all that great last season but he's clearly an Alexander favorite & pet project and those guys never lose their jobs until their contracts run out (see Ghiacuic, Andrews).

So that leaves us with Whit, Moobs and Zeitler. Question: how do the Bengals feel about paying Zeitler? His option was a hefty $8 million, which is a lot more than the Bengals have ever been willing to pay for a guard. Is Kevin willing to come down to something inline with Boling's deal, about $5 million a year. Or would he prefer to play out his final year and test free agency?

Figuring this out is important, I think, because I don't expect Andre Smith to get much more interest than he got last time. When healthy and motivated he's an above-average RT, but he's only managed two full 16-game season in six years. A 28-year-old tackle with injury issues isn't going to draw big FA bucks.

So the choices as I see them are: 1. in 2016, trade Zeitler, plug Fisher in at RG and re-sign Moobs. Or 2. Pay Zeitler, let Moobs walk, and put Fisher at RT.

As for Ogboobooie, he's clearly ticketed for LT Of The Future. How soon he supplants Whit is up to his knee. I could see a 1-year deal for Whit in 2016, but no more.

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Bengals overpay locker room leaders, and Whit is the ultimate one. He'll stay, I think, and for multiple years. also he'll turn out to be great working with the Tackle Twins.

I assume that Smith is out, and that Bengals make an attempt to sign Zeitler but lose him to a division rival, a la Eric Steinbach

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I came here to talk about Zeitler as well.

Agree that the number for him is high and the Bengals history of not wanting to pay high dollar on guards is noted.

When I looked back on highlights of OogleyBoogley, he's played a ton of both RG and RT, having not moved to LT until last season.

He may be looked as the future LT, but that's far from a done deal at this point.

Could anyone else see a scenario where both Moobs and Zeitler are gone, having been replaced by the two new guys, while they wait for Whit to be finished ??

While I think they may be unlikely, from a money standpoint, it wouldn't be unreasonable and would only require looking for a new OG down the road.

All i'm really trying to point out is, the team has given themselves many options for how they move forward after 2015.

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His back worries me and raises some questions about his longevity as a football player.

If he was kept out of practices at college then how is he going to transplant that into an NFL career? Were the limited number of r reps (23) due to his back either hurting or risking injury to his back?

He's going to need to practice to play but practice could further damage/weaken his back. He needs to add strength but again could a strengthening regime be detrimental to his back.

I'm hoping taking him as the Bengals No.1 pick will, in time, be justified, but I think it's been a risky pick.

Snippet from the player profile on NFL.Com:

WEAKNESSES

Functional power and anchor are legitimate concerns. Technique flaws make pass protection harder than it has to be. Football leverage isn't as good as expected. Doesn't play with enough bend at impact. His punch in pass pro can be woefully mistimed and he plays with wide hands and some wasted motion in setup. Base tends to narrow when pass rush gets to his high side. Not a powerful tackle and won't generate much push as in-line blocker. Was one of the SEC leaders in sacks allowed in 2014. Tore his ACL in Aggies' bowl game, and won't be able to go through a full pre-draft workout for NFL personnel men.

BOTTOM LINE

NFL evaluators are very worried about Ogbuehi's core strength and ability to anchor in pass protection, but some of his anchor issues could be improved with technique work -- especially where his hands are concerned. He should be a plus run blocker, especially on stretch plays, but needs to add strength and work on technique if he is to reach his play potential. Ogbuehi's bowl-game injury could hurt his draft standing, but his traits and potential might be able to keep him in the first round.

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Could anyone else see a scenario where both Moobs and Zeitler are gone, having been replaced by the two new guys, while they wait for Whit to be finished ??

While I think they may be unlikely, from a money standpoint, it wouldn't be unreasonable and would only require looking for a new OG down the road.

It's another option but I viewed it as unlikely since it seems, to me, to buy you the worst of both worlds. You have, in football terms, an old guy, a middle-aged guy and a young guy, and you replace the two youngest with two even younger guys. Then you do what you did with Willie Anderson and give fresh money to the old guy.

But yeah, from a money standpoint it's probably the cheapest option, which means it can't be ruled out with this club.

(Of course, the dirt cheap option is trading Zeitler, waving goodbye to both Whit and Moobs, and having a line of Ogbuehi - Boling - Bodine - Hopkins - Fisher in 2016...)

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(Of course, the dirt cheap option is trading Zeitler, waving goodbye to both Whit and Moobs, and having a line of Ogbuehi - Boling - Bodine - Hopkins - Fisher in 2016...)

Ahhhh, again with the "full retard"...

:lmao:

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I might term it the "full Mikey." :)/>/>

Financially (and I stress: financially) it's a compelling case.

For 2015, the total cap hit for the Bengals' offensive line is about $20.6 million (using spotrac figures). That's mostly Whit and Moobs, who combine for about $12.5 million.

For 2016, Bodine, Zeitler and Boling count $13.4 million. Add in Ogbuehi and Fisher's estimated cap costs and that figure increases to somewhere in the $16.1 million neighborhood. So keeping even one of Whit or Moobs at $6 million or so puts the total o-line cost above $22 million.

OTOH, Ogbuehi, Boling, Bodine, Hopkins and Fisher would have a total combined cap hit of about $8.5 million in 2016. That is a huge cap savings in a year when half the team are free agents.

Just imagine how much they could front-load AJ's contract!

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I might term it the "full Mikey." :)/>/>/>

Financially (and I stress: financially) it's a compelling case.

For 2015, the total cap hit for the Bengals' offensive line is about $20.6 million (using spotrac figures). That's mostly Whit and Moobs, who combine for about $12.5 million.

For 2016, Bodine, Zeitler and Boling count $13.4 million. Add in Ogbuehi and Fisher's estimated cap costs and that figure increases to somewhere in the $16.1 million neighborhood. So keeping even one of Whit or Moobs at $6 million or so puts the total o-line cost above $22 million.

OTOH, Ogbuehi, Boling, Bodine, Hopkins and Fisher would have a total combined cap hit of about $8.5 million in 2016. That is a huge cap savings in a year when half the team are free agents.

Just imagine how much they could front-load AJ's contract!

Well researched, Hoosier! Makes so much sense now. I don't know if they'd fully gut the line but it's clear they are getting the pieces in place for an overhaul. Let's see the reborn, fit Moobs come back from his apparent hardcore training off season and be a beast. Mayb Whit ends up the odd man out? Cedric sure looks like the prototype LT....

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I don't want to give the Flesh Zeppelin anything other than 1 year extensions going forward

He has a history of working harder and playing better in contract years

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And so it begins...

@pauldehnerjr: Andrew Whitworth very honest and blunt about wishing #Bengals were more open with him about his status in future. Story coming ASAP.

@Local12Skinny: Whitworth says he wants extension past 2015 and has asked #bengals about it but has heard nothing in return. Not happy about that #local12

Raw comments from whit here: https://twitter.com/pauldehnerjr/status/595276621801725953

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We'll see how quickly the damage control kicks in. I'm sure Marvin will downplay it. Even though they talked about it I'm pretty sure they didn't expect to draft two tackles at 1 and 2.

And honestly the team got burned when Levi and Willie declined at the same time. They have an obligation to look towards the future too. It's just the reality of the business now. They've gotten themselves to the point where they're not drafting out of desperation anymore.

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well, they've pissed off Whit, not good


/>http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12818935/andrew-whitworth-cincinnati-bengals-unhappy-due-lack-contract-talks-draft-picks

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Not good to piss of your true leader the one who keeps things together. If he leaves or would get cut I would hate to see what happens, he has kept this thing together for years now

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well, they've pissed off Whit, not good


/>http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12818935/andrew-whitworth-cincinnati-bengals-unhappy-due-lack-contract-talks-draft-picks

Man, Whit is completely irate. He's just shocked how the draft went down, as we all were. If he had visions of riding into the sunset on a long term deal that wouldn't take into account the ravages of time, I guess he knows the reality now. For a guy who strangely favors certain players, Mike can be pretty ruthless with others. Peko has got to be laughing his ass off at Whit.

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Like I said, it begins. Whit wants a last bite at the apple and now isn't likely to get it here. Yeah, he played nice with the new kids this past weekend but if he wants that last contract his best bet is probably another team. He'd have to play hardball, sit out camp, that sort of thing. Doesn't seem like it's in his makeup but you never know.

Trading or releasing him would clear $5 million in cap space this year.

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Not good to piss of your true leader the one who keeps things together. If he leaves or would get cut I would hate to see what happens, he has kept this thing together for years now

Whit is a professional and should know how the league works,I do think team should at least be willing to talk to him about it maybe he's willing to take a reasonable deal to make sure he retires a Bengal.though if he was extended he would have come to terms with maybe moving to Guard once one of the young guys are ready though didnt take well to that last time.

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He is the last person I thought would go public about being unhappy. Guys like this make me mad, if they have a problem go speak with Mike and Marvin and work something out. Every time I turn around somebody is unhappy about something and they speak to the media before trying to talk to higher ups before. I just hate that.

Same time I feel they should do something for Whit who has proved time and time again to lead this team even when they sucked. So I really hope they make something happen for him

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How do you know he hasn't tried to talk to the front office?

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Well, Whit got into it with McAlister on Twitter. Said his word were being twisted, called Lance a snake, that sort of thing.

Not disagreeing wth his assessment, but Whit probably would have been wise to just shut it.

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You might be right maybe he did try to talk to the front office, but still it just amazes me he still went to the media. I guess will find out sooner or later what's going to happen, just hope the bengals do him right

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Well, Whit got into it with McAlister on Twitter. Said his word were being twisted, called Lance a snake, that sort of thing.

Not disagreeing wth his assessment, but Whit probably would have been wise to just shut it.

I'm not terribly familiar with twitter. Is it on Lance's board or Whit's?

I'm not sure if I agree with any of it, but god forbid someone makes waves (not named Chad) in Cincinnati.

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There's some bits of it over on CJ. Whits gone back and deleted the most inflammatory of his tweets (lol).

Whit's free to make all the waves he wants. But at this point that's all he can do. I'm in no rush to kick him to the curb, but the fact is he's not getting another contract here unless it's on the team's terms.

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Honestly, I think all of this is just stupid.

I said it before that people forget that Whit didn't even get his first start at LT until 2009.

There's no reason to think, when considering players that are coming into free agency, that Whit won't be brought back.

They will agree on a 2-3 year extension that works for both him and the team.

Big Ced will work his way into playing time at other positions and eventually take over the LT spot at some point.

Ced has tons of time at both RG and RT, so let's not pretend he can only play LT.

I just think Whit wants some stability and I can't really blame him for it.

That being said, I can recall when it was mentioned that he didn't give up any sacks, that it could have also been attributed to the fact the offense was running their plays with the intent of getting rid of the ball as quickly as possible. It's not out of the rhelm of reason to think the team could get similar results from another player of either Ced's or Fisher's ability.

Now don't get it twisted, I think Whit deserves to stay and don't think you can simply plug in another guy without issues, but there's other considerations.

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Honestly, I think all of this is just stupid.

I said it before that people forget that Whit didn't even get his first start at LT until 2009.

There's no reason to think, when considering players that are coming into free agency, that Whit won't be brought back.

They will agree on a 2-3 year extension that works for both him and the team.

Big Ced will work his way into playing time at other positions and eventually take over the LT spot at some point.

Ced has tons of time at both RG and RT, so let's not pretend he can only play LT.

I just think Whit wants some stability and I can't really blame him for it.

That being said, I can recall when it was mentioned that he didn't give up any sacks, that it could have also been attributed to the fact the offense was running their plays with the intent of getting rid of the ball as quickly as possible. It's not out of the rhelm of reason to think the team could get similar results from another player of either Ced's or Fisher's ability.

Now don't get it twisted, I think Whit deserves to stay and don't think you can simply plug in another guy without issues, but there's other considerations.

Yeah, at this point one must assume that plan A is to resign Whit, at least, for several more years at LT. I'm confident something will get done for him, probably before the seasons starts. The guys who will get the short straw are lower on the depth chart.

The Bengals preference for veterans is common knowledge. We've used 2 1st round picks in a row on CB and neither of those guys have usurped a starting role. I'm sure Whit is aware of that. It's possible he is just taking this opportunity to put pressure on the team to make him an offer. Or, maybe he forgot all that and the outrage was genuine...

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