Patriots Videotaping "cheating" incident

[jjakq27]

Now the league can use this as a wedge to get in and stop all the mickey mouse stuff in Fauxboro.

Man if all of this stuff turns out to be true, they ought to consider stripping them of their Super Bowl titles.

I am sure that Peyton Manning is wondering how he could have played so badly in all of those playoff games in Foxboro. Coincidence? Maybe but probably not?

It's because the Pats had their number, right?

Was it their number or their frequency? Or the switch to their headsets?

[HairOnFire]

As I understand the radio thing, and I say up front my understanding may be far from complete, there are at least two issues. One is the "mysterious failing visitors headsets" already chronicled here. The second is the use of a separate radio, operating on a separate frequency, that would be used by the Pats to give info to the QB during the last 15 second before the snap (the QB's helmet radio is supposed to be "dead" once the play clock counts down to 0:15, something I knew a long time ago but had forgotten until stumbling across it in an article today...

Yup. And having the ability to communicate directly with the QB negates the oft-repeated excuse that the Patriots couldn't have done much with the information gained by stealing signals. Both forms of cheating go hand in hand.

[jjakq27]

Great story about Mangini and the Jets and the poor young guy for NE that got caught. Stay tuned, the rematch is in mid-December in Foxboro.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football...chicks_spy.html

[HoosierCat]

I thought this Jeremy Green piece was pretty good...

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/col...%26id%3d3017731

Advance scouting makes spying unnecessary

By Jeremy Green

Scouts Inc.

Updated: September 13, 2007, 5:33 PM ET

There is no question that New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick crossed the line by having a member of his video crew film the Jets coaches during their Week 1 win. The big question on everyone's mind is why he would do it. The Patriots are clearly the superior team and would not need this advantage to beat an out-manned Jets team today, tomorrow or any other day this season.

It seems simple to say the advantage is not worth the risk. It certainly wasn't intended to help in Week 1, and while the Patriots could have possibly learned some defensive signals and anticipated something the next time they played New York, it wouldn't be much more than they could learn through an advance scouting report. Those reports are the real keys to the coaches' preparation for an opponent. They are detailed breakdowns of a team and are invaluable in creating a game plan.

In my five years working in pro personnel with the Cleveland Browns, one of my jobs was to scout upcoming opponents and create that advance scouting report. So while the Browns would be preparing to play, say, the Bengals, I would be looking ahead to the next week's game against Pittsburgh. I would study the film of the Steelers, looking for formations, tendencies and anything that might help formulate a game plan.

On Sunday, while the Browns were in Cincinnati, I would be in the press box in Pittsburgh. This is a common practice and league bylaws actually state that no team shall prevent a member of an upcoming opponent from attending a game in that capacity.

I used a pair of binoculars and prepared sheets to chart what I saw. I would look at the "formation caller" for the upcoming opponent. Most every team has an offensive coach who stands on the sideline and sends in a personnel grouping, and he is usually easy to find because he'll wear a different colored shirt or a backwards cap or some other distinguishing characteristic. This allows the offensive huddle to recognize him amidst the chaos of an NFL sideline on game day.

It was my job to chart what signals he gave and which players came in and out of the game. Is it a three-receiver or four-receiver package? Is it a short-yardage package or are they in their base personnel with two running backs, two receivers and one tight end? This is very valuable to a defensive coaching staff because the quicker they can determine what the offense is doing, the sooner they can adjust their personnel to get that extra defensive back or defensive lineman into the game.

For a time, teams used a "deke" in which they would run offensive personnel halfway onto the field and then call them back to confuse defensive coaches, but the league has since instituted a rule that says once an offensive player gets past the numbers he must continue to the huddle or be assessed a penalty.

Once you watch a team a few times the scouting gets easier as teams generally do not switch their personnel grouping signals. I tracked Pittsburgh for five years and their signals were the same the entire time. Ditto for Baltimore. Teams that run the West Coast offense Seahawks, Eagles, Packers -- are all similar as well. When coaches branch out from a coaching tree they tend to take signals with them.

After the game I headed back to Cleveland to prepare a report including everything from the signals for personnel groupings and formations, player evaluations, special teams numbers and any alignments and tendencies I discovered during film study or while watching live.

For example, if I'm scouting Pittsburgh I know that at some point on a clutch third-and-short the Steelers will run the fake dive to the fullback and pitch to the tailback. They love that play and will use it late in the game when they really need the yards. Little things like that can make the difference between winning and losing.

I then handed out copies of the advance scouting report book on Monday morning and met with individual coaches to go over it before they got together to work on the game plan that night.

That's why New England filming the opposing coaches is mind-boggling to me. There is not a lot left uncovered by advance scouting and what's not there can often be found in films shot during games. Teams are allowed to have a camera on top of the press box and one in the end zone, and that film goes to the NFL Dub Center and is distributed out to other NFL teams. And note that the film shot from above the press box is just of the field. It does not capture the coaches and their movements.

So maybe the Patriots wanted a little more knowledge the pro personnel people could give them. There are certain things you can pick up if you know the language, but not all pro personnel people speak it fluently. For instance, I once scouted a Rams-Panthers game and saw the St. Louis defensive signal caller twice hold up two fingers and then roll his hands like he was rolling dough. I took this to mean they were in a Cover 2 roll with the roll going to WR Steve Smith's side, but I could not really confirm that because after the snap of the ball I had to move the binoculars to see the entire play. Plus, I only played as far as high school, and even as the son of an NFL coach who spent his entire life around the game it was nearly impossible to consistently pickup which signals dictate certain blitz or coverage packages.

But remember, some coaches don't change signals very often -- if at all -- so maybe the Patriots thought picking up signals would help them in future games. But how? Perhaps after breaking the huddle they could tell alert Tom Brady as to defense was signaled in and he could check off to another play, but teams check off at the line constantly anyway. Maybe it helps with line calls and expecting blitzes and stunts, but what if Brady is told to expect one thing but something entirely different comes, which is entirely possible. Does that really help?

And even if the Patriots have been doing something like this for awhile it is doubtful the players on their team knew about it. I mean, let's be serious: there is no way a coaching staff would tell 53 players about something like that and expect that it would never get out.

What the Patriots did was wrong, but one of the things that has been missed in all this is that the contents of that tape would have had zero impact on the game. The data they gathered was to be tucked away for another day. Yes, the Patriots "cheated." But are their Super Bowl titles tainted? No. Is Bill Belichick still the best coach in the NFL? Yes. What they would have gotten would have amounted to maybe a small fraction of what they already know anyway.

New England should be punished and Commissioner Roger Goodell should come down hard. The Patriots could have relied on their pro personnel scout in the box or a camera in the sky and still come away with 95 percent of what they need to win on a weekly basis. This is just an example of a team being greedy and going for the entire 100 percent all in one shot.

Jeremy Green, director of pro scouting for Scouts Inc., has been an NFL scout for more than 10 years.

[duus]

Breaking news says Bill was fined $500k and the team another $250k. The Pats will lose a 1st round pick next year if they make the playoffs this year, or a 2nd and 3rd if they do not. There you go. That's the price of integrity.

[rishipatel]

ESPN just reported that the Pats got a stiff penalty for this spying stuff.

Belichick fined $500K, Pats fined $250K; and if the Pats make the playoffs(which we all know they will), they lose their 2008 1st round draft pick.

I'm glad Goodell was consistent at least in his heavy punishments.

[Ox]

BREAKING NEWS:

Belichick Fined; Pats Lose Pick

Bill Belichick was hit with a $500,000 fine Thursday night -- the maximum allowable by NFL by-laws -- for violating the league's policy on videotaping the Jets defensive signs Sunday. In addition, Roger Goodell notified the Patriots that they would forfeit a 2008 first-round draft choice if they reach the playoffs, or second- and third-round picks if they do not qualify for the playoffs. The club was also fined $250,000.

on the front page of ESPN right now...

[HoosierCat]

About what was expected.

[BengalChamps]

I think most teams and coaches would pay the fines and the draft picks to win multiple super bowls. It is not much of a deterent. This cheating thing has worked for the Patsies, maybe others will try it now if only cost a fine and a pick.

[HoosierCat]

Here's the full text...

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

September 13, 2007

BILL BELICHICK FINED $500,000 MAXIMUM;

PATRIOTS TO FORFEIT 2008 FIRST-ROUND DRAFT PICK

IF THEY REACH THE PLAYOFFS OR 2ND AND 3RD-ROUND CHOICES;

CLUB FINED $250,000

New England Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick has been fined the maximum amount under the NFL Constitution and By-Laws of $500,000 for violating league policy last Sunday on the use of equipment to videotape an opposing team's offensive or defensive signals, the NFL announced today.

In addition, Commissioner Roger Goodell also notified the Patriots that they would forfeit their own first-round draft choice in 2008 if they reach the playoffs, or their own second-round and third-round picks if they do not qualify for the playoffs, and that the club would be fined $250,000.

"This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," Commissioner Goodell wrote in a letter to the Patriots.

NFL policy states that "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game" and that all video shooting locations for club coaching purposes "must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

In a memo to NFL head coaches and general managers on September 6, 2006, NFL Executive Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson said, "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

In his review of the facts, Commissioner Goodell determined that the Patriots' use last Sunday of the video camera, which was seized before the end of the first quarter, had no impact on the outcome of the Patriots-New York Jets game.

Commissioner Goodell also believes that Patriots ownership was unaware of Coach Belichick's action, but determined that penalties should be imposed on the club because "Coach Belichick not only serves as the head coach but also has substantial control over all aspects of New England's football operations. His actions and decisions are properly attributed to the club."

Commissioner Goodell informed the Patriots that the NFL would closely review and monitor the Patriots' coaching video program, effective immediately.

"I specifically considered whether to impose a suspension on Coach Belichick," Commissioner Goodell wrote. "I have determined not to do so, largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension."

[BlainThePain]

It's being reported now that if they don't make the playoffs they lose their 2nd and 3rd round picks.

[membengal]

It's not enough.

He should have been suspended for four games.

[HoosierCat]

It's not enough.

He should have been suspended for four games.

Yeah, I thought it was a bit weak, too. The fine is about right, but given that the Pats have an extra 1st next year from the 9ers...the draft pick penalty is a big whoop-de-do. Personally, I think he ought to have taken the Pats' top 3 picks and given them to their division opponents, on the premise that they would have been the most hurt by the Pats' cheating, and so redress the competitive balance. But if it gets the Pats to cut their filming on the road and their crap in Fauxboro out, I guess it's OK.

[jjakq27]

It's not enough.

He should have been suspended for four games.

I agree with that. Four games at a minimum. I will bet that after the season that rule will be amended and perhaps always be known as the Belichick rule.

It's funny though there is nothing on the Pats website or on NFL.com nearly an hour later.

[HoosierCat]

It's funny though there is nothing on the Pats website or on NFL.com nearly an hour later.

It was on nfl.com in a big red banner on the top when I checked after the first post about the fine...

[jjakq27]

It's funny though there is nothing on the Pats website or on NFL.com nearly an hour later.

It was on nfl.com in a big red banner on the top when I checked after the first post about the fine...

My bad, it was off the top of the screen on my PC and I thought it was an annoying ad so I ignored it!

[LesterLyles]

whats up fellas, resident jets fan here. First off, congrats on the big win.

I think the penalties on the Pats were pretty weak. the fine on Bellicheck is meaningless and the fine on the Pats is beyond meaningless. While I think the draft pick is fair, I truly believe Belli should have been suspended, probably for at least 2 games but i would have said 4. IMO this doesnt discourage teams too much from cheating in the future. Based on this penalty, Pete Rose should have been banned for 1 season and not for life. Oh, and I think the Jets, despite the fact they wouldn't have won anyway on Sunday, deserve a 7th rounder, just to make the injured party whole.

[kingwilly]

The fines are OK. The 1st rounder is not a big deal, as should they go deep into the post season, they are effectively losing a 2nd rounder.

Even making Coach Bill sit is a minor issue.

Now, had they imposed a restriction on their cap space or made them pay extra into the rev sharing, I'd have been impressed.

[BengalszoneBilly]

It's not enough.

He should have been suspended for four games.

I agree Mem, but suspending a coach really wouldn't do that much IMHO. Too easily circumvented with phone calls and e-mails which the league cannot possibly monitor.

[HairOnFire]

Put me in the camp that thinks the penalty is remarkably weak. Fining an NFL team 250k for blatant acts of cheating seems like the punchline to a joke, and Belichick doesn't even get suspended for a single game? Please. And while the loss of a 1st round pick was a good start it didn't go nearly far enough as the loss can easily be made up with a single move in free agency. Far better to withhold every first day pick the Patriots had this season and possibly one the following year as well.

As for Goodell's explanation of why Belichick wasn't suspended, it's crap. Goodell wasn't forced to choose from one type of punishment or another, as he implies, and could very easily have added a suspension to the fines and loss of a single draft pick.

"I specifically considered whether to impose a suspension on Coach Belichick. I have determined not to do so, largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension." --- Commissioner Goodell

Bottom Line: I'm betting Odell Thurman will pay a greater financial price than the combined fines levied against Belichick AND the Patriots.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Bottom Line: I'm betting Odell Thurman will pay a greater financial price than the combined fines levied against Belichick AND the Patriots.

That's Pat-hetic. I feel the big money in Beantown paid off on this.

[ArmyBengal]

F*ck the Patriots, F*ck Billichek, and F*ck Goodell !!!

This is complete bullsh*t plain and simple. 250,000 against the team ?? Oh yeah, that will show them. That's a drop in the bucket, pocket change for these guys. Coach not getting any suspension, regardless of how effective it would be ?? Stupid reasoning on the part of Goodell. Don't the Pats have an extra first rounder next year anyway. Nothing saying they couldn't trade back up into the first to target someone either. But then again, if they aren't paying a 1st round pick, FA always is another option. I think this whole things sucks balls !!!

Nice example set by the league on this one... Anyone familiar with how to set up a petition to have Goodell removed from his position as most holy deity of the NFL ?? ASSCLOWN !!!

WHODEY !!!

[HoosierCat]

Put me in the camp that thinks the penalty is remarkably weak.

Yup. Methinks I detect a wiff of panic from the NFL front office. Supposedly the Pats were to present their case tomorrow, which meant a ruling was to come...well, who knows, sometime in the next few days. Now all of a sudden, poof, here's the call. I think the story, as you suggested earlier, was starting to spiral out of control. You had radios and headsets and mickey mouse in the locker room and Eagles players openly questioning their SB loss...my bet is Goodell just wanted to get a lid on things. Short-term it will probably work, but look for "behind the New England Cheaters" stories in SI and ESPN the Magazine etc. in the coming months.

[LesterLyles]

Don't know if you guys saw Palmer's quote on ESPN. I thought it was perfect. he said it has to be punished seriously and should be as harsh as the players who have off the field problems. Not sure this was.

[HoosierCat]

The Football Elf calls BS (gently) on the discipline...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=3018407