CB in Stripes

[da boss]

Out of all the corners in the draft i would like to see Richard Marshal in orange and black the most. He would be a steal in r3. What corners would you like to see on the team next year?

[thepudgester]

Marshall won't be there when we pick in the 2nd, so to say he is a possibility in Rd. 3 is ridiculous. This is a guy who could sneak into the 1st. However, if he was there in the 2nd, I'd take him.

[Stripes]

I wouldn't call ANY draft analysis rediculous, it is all speculation. Priorities, needs, and player rankings seem to change every day. Who knows where we'll be come late April?

I'd be happy to land Marshall in any round outside the first (in regards to where he is currently positioned by most analysts), but after that he'd be great.

[NJ29]

Yo! Anwar Phillips, Dee Webb, Cedric Griffin, and Charlie Paprah.

[7/11]

anwar phillips please!

[BengalPappaw]

I would like to see one of the following:

Michael Huff or Jimmy Williams -- gone by 24th position

Antonio Cromartie -- might be there. Coming off injury

Jason Allen -- coming off injury

Ashton Youboty

Cedric griffin

Alan Zemaitis

DeMario Minter

All have the size and decent speed.

[Whur CHad At?]

anwar phillips is amazing.

[WretchedOne]

Jonathan Joseph. - CB - South Carolina.

This is the kind of player Marvin drafts.

1. He runs a 4.35 - 40.

2. He's a ballhawk - 5 Ints and 10 PDs in 2005.

3. He had a 52 TTs in 2005, 40 UT - 12 AT. He knows how to tackle.

4. He is willing in run support, VERY willing.

A little bit about Jospeh from the footballgenius.com

"It has been reported that Johnathan has been timed in the mid 4.3’s. Against Missouri in Q4 of the Independence Bowl, Johnathan chased down Missouri QB Brad Smith from behind after a 50 yard gain. What was interesting about that play was that Johnathan actually came from the other side of the field. That play reminded TFG of a 1980’s Cowboys-Redskins game where Darrell Green chased down Tony Dorsett in similar fashion. Needless to say, Brad Smith was pulling ahead of the rest of the Gamecock defense except for Johnathan Joseph.

TFG has all but three South Carolina games on tape, including 5 of the last 6 games (don’t have the Clemson tape). Nobody really ever separated from Joseph. There were some completions in front of him where he was on the WR immediately. Joseph lost a jumping match to a Missouri TE who is listed over 6’6” in the end zone. There was a TD against him early in the season where it looked like Joseph misread his zone. Other than that, virtually nothing got passed Joseph at all.

[NJ29]

Jonathan Joseph. - CB - South Carolina.

This is the kind of player Marvin drafts.

1. He runs a 4.35 - 40.

2. He's a ballhawk - 5 Ints and 10 PDs in 2005.

3. He had a 52 TTs in 2005, 40 UT - 12 AT. He knows how to tackle.

4. He is willing in run support, VERY willing.

A little bit about Jospeh from the footballgenius.com

"It has been reported that Johnathan has been timed in the mid 4.3’s. Against Missouri in Q4 of the Independence Bowl, Johnathan chased down Missouri QB Brad Smith from behind after a 50 yard gain. What was interesting about that play was that Johnathan actually came from the other side of the field. That play reminded TFG of a 1980’s Cowboys-Redskins game where Darrell Green chased down Tony Dorsett in similar fashion. Needless to say, Brad Smith was pulling ahead of the rest of the Gamecock defense except for Johnathan Joseph.

TFG has all but three South Carolina games on tape, including 5 of the last 6 games (don’t have the Clemson tape). Nobody really ever separated from Joseph. There were some completions in front of him where he was on the WR immediately. Joseph lost a jumping match to a Missouri TE who is listed over 6’6” in the end zone. There was a TD against him early in the season where it looked like Joseph misread his zone. Other than that, virtually nothing got passed Joseph at all.

Yo! Sounds good to me.

[thepudgester]

BengalPappaW, the only one whodoesn't really fit on your list is Alan Zemaitis. Zemaitis is a good, smart player, yet he is pretty slow and will likely be a career backup. Now if you replace him with Jonathan Joseph and/or Richard Marshall, you've got yourself a nice looking list.

[BengalPappaw]

BengalPappaW, the only one whodoesn't really fit on your list is Alan Zemaitis. Zemaitis is a good, smart player, yet he is pretty slow and will likely be a career backup. Now if you replace him with Jonathan Joseph and/or Richard Marshall, you've got yourself a nice looking list.

After further review -- I think you are right!

[Tasher]

The kid from Abilene Christian! Danieal Manning, then we have a Manning too!

[schweinhart]

Who the Bengals go after at CB should largely be determined by their greatest need at the position and the best available type of corner to fill that role.

I would say they'll look at a weakside CB who will play quarters a lot, get lots of help over the top, and be both physical against the run and quick enough to make open field tackles rather than a cover corner whose greatest strength is press at the line, route jumping on quick throws, and man coverage downfield.

Basically, the eventual or immediate replacement for Tory James.

Of those mentioned Zemaitis and Griffin are the most physical but also the slowest of route breaks and recovery. Both should project to safety and are going to be limited to zone as NFL corners but would add the versatility of safeties, even interchangeable ones between SS and FS.

But the better two birds (actually 3) to kill with one stone would be among Joseph, Webb, Marshall, and Minter -- whoever falls to them in the 2nd -- because they best foot the bill at weakside and still should have enough man coverage skills with speed to be the 3rd CB on the other side behind O'Neal and Madieu and maybe enough good enough in man to backup O'Neal and free up Madieu to keep playing safety if O'Neal misses any time. And if it came down to it, they should all be able to fit the bill at FS if needed.

[HairOnFire]

I know it's not a popular opinion, but I'd be extremely happy if the Bengals drafted a CB in the 1st round instead of settling for the familiar but failed strategy of selecting whichever prospect is still on the board in the late 2nd round.

Huff, Williams, or Tye Hill.

[Kazkal]

So williams is a failed stratagy?

[TJJackson]

I like Will Blackmon out of BC as a mid round CB selection

[kingwilly]

I'm digging Minter the bulldog or Phillips in r3/4.

They could go for a bigger name in r1, like Hill Cromartie or Youboty but there is not a big fall-off from the r1 guys to the r3 guys.

Wretched One, if James Joseph goes anywhere in r1, I'll buy you a new bengals hat.

[HoosierCat]

Huff, Williams, or Tye Hill.

Any of those 3 would be a no-brainer at 24...but the odds of any of them being there are very long. Tye Hill's size might cause him to slip, but Huff and Williams will be long gone. Ashton Youbuty is probably your best bet for a CB at 24.

[HairOnFire]

So williams is a failed stratagy?

Is Williams a true CB or just a S who can give you some reps there from time to time?

The Bengals most recent draft history in regards to cornerbacks is to select players in the 2nd round, settling for prospects ranked in the 2nd or 3rd tier, and the only true starter at CB this has produced is Artrell Hawkins. As for current players, plans for Ratliff to step up from his nickle role seem to diminish by the day.

So give me a stud CB with elite speed, top shelf ball skills, real coverage ability, and if he's got good size then that's a plus. If he doesn't, I make do.

[TJJackson]

err, Hair, I think he meant Madieu Williams, who was taken in r2, ie is HE part of the "failed strategy"

[Kazkal]

err, Hair, I think he meant Madieu Williams, who was taken in r2, ie is HE part of the "failed strategy"

you are correct sir

[HairOnFire]

err, Hair, I think he meant Madieu Williams, who was taken in r2, ie is HE part of the "failed strategy"

TJ, I know who he meant. It's why I asked the question about if Williams is a true CB or a S who can give you some limited snaps at corner. If he's considered a Safety, a position that is almost always devalued on draft day, then it's not a surprise that the Bengals could get a top prospect in the 2nd round. In fact, the Bengals should be able to get a very good safety in the 2nd round of the coming draft if they so desire. But I think CB is another matter altogether. If you want a potentially great player at that position, more than most you could name, you have to shop early.

Failed strategy? Try Hawkins, Fisher, and until he threatens to win a starters job...Ratliff.

[schweinhart]

Well, speed kills at CB and if size is added it's even more of a 1st round draw. Youboty is gonna appeal to teams early but I hope not to the Bengals. He strikes me as a sucker for double moves and slower to react to breaks inside. He's got the speed to recover vertically, but there's more to it than just that.

Huff sure doesn't look like he'll slide. He looks like he could play either safety poisition and any CB spot, especially nickel. The verdict on whether or not Williams is a safety or CB will determine where he goes and the biggest downside on Hill will be if he shed blocks and hold up against the run in addition to go up with taller WRs downfield. But I'd be real surprised if any of the 3 falls to 24.

A couple other CBs mentioned are pretty interesting as 3rd or 4th rounders. Will Blackmon looked lost in space trying to play CB again in the Senior Bowl after a year at WR at BC but even with his mishandling a couple kicks he's still a decent returner. Shake off some of the rust and he could be a solid CB in zone coverage. Anwar Phillips strikes me that he's suited to play nickel. He seems to have the short area quickness that will serve him well coming off the slot and I believe he should be able to improve his man skills with more opps than what he had at Penn State.

But something has to be done. James surely won't last past this year and Keiwan doesn't look like the answer to me -- at James spot or in the nickel. Keiwan was serviceable in the nickel but much quicker WRs out of the slot left him dead to rights.

[Kazkal]

err, Hair, I think he meant Madieu Williams, who was taken in r2, ie is HE part of the "failed strategy"

TJ, I know who he meant. It's why I asked the question about if Williams is a true CB or a S who can give you some limited snaps at corner. If he's considered a Safety, a position that is almost always devalued on draft day, then it's not a surprise that the Bengals could get a top prospect in the 2nd round. In fact, the Bengals should be able to get a very good safety in the 2nd round of the coming draft if they so desire. But I think CB is another matter altogether. If you want a potentially great player at that position, more than most you could name, you have to shop early.

Failed strategy? Try Hawkins, Fisher, and until he threatens to win a starters job...Ratliff.

true

[TJJackson]

TJ, I know who he meant.

sorry. for some odd reason I thought you were talking about 1st round draft prospect Jimmy Williams