Please explain why the Bengals can't stop run.

[walzav29]

This has been going on for decades. I live in Detroit, and I get to hear about how great Big Daddy plays against the run. When he was here he sucked. The Bengals can never stop the run. Why couldn't Dick LeBeau stop the run when he was the coach or the DQ? I don't care what Marv says. The Bengals need a fat slob sumo wrestler type to just sqaut in the field. I hate watching them get blown off of the ball year in and year out. Cowher has been doing it for 14 years against the Bengals. The frustrating part is that the Bengals should beat the Packers and Ravens in the coming weeks to be 7-2, but we'll still think they can't do it against good teams. Frustrating.

[smith288]

I would say personel.... Big Daddy has probably learned alot since his days here.

Maybe there is still a "bungles" stank latching onto fat defensive guys?

[EdwardG]

They don't have any beef in the middle.

[Section 310]

Because overpaid, overhyped guys like Justin Smith are getting pushed 5 yards off the ball by a freakin TIGHT END!!

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Geathers (situational pass rusher) + Smith (outside pass rusher) + Thorton (under-whelming FA) + Robinson (average journeyman) = junk

Brian Simmons (downside of career, slower than ever) + Landon Johnson (better MLB than OLB, young, having sophmore slump year) + Odell (inconsistent rookie who gets gobbled up by lineman and has no protection) = no run defense

Don't even bring up the safeties, it's not their job to stop running Rb's - only to provide support and a 3rd line of defense when things break down or they are blitzing. The Bengals' sorely miss Madeiu.

The only way the Bengals' win games this year is to get out to an early lead, or give the offense more than 2 opportunities in a quarter by getting off the field - something they can't do too often.

The offense literally has to be absolutely flawless and mistake free for them to beat the best teams in the league. It'll just have to be the way the rest of the year for the most part.

Small margin for error with this team right now.

[walzav29]

Yeah. I've had enough of Justin Smith. He is supposed to be good against the run right? I mean, isn't that why they keep him? They don't mind him not getting sacks because of how he is against the run. Right? BULLSH!T. Marv needs to do something. Throw in Smith and Askew. What's the difference? They couldn't do any worse than Thorton, Smith, and Robinson. No Ball$!

Shaun Smith

[maanster]

look at the best linebackers in nfl history they always had great d-lineman in front of them taking on the guards. it's hard for linebackers to make plays when o-lineman are blocking you.

marvin should know this, the ravens had siragusa and sam adams in the middle when they won the super bowl. the ravens are still a good defensive team but have slipped since the big guys left.

[Stripes]

I don't see how anyone can be complaining about Justin Smith's performance. He has had an excellent season as of yet. The runs on the outside we have failed to contain are on Geathers eating dirt, the linebackers overpursuing to the middle, and the safeties missing tackles. Smith has played very well.

[NYBengalfan]

We need more beef in the middle, we need a big guy that can swallow running backs whole like a Sam Adams or a Pat Williams

[HoosierCat]

Geathers (situational pass rusher) + Smith (outside pass rusher) + Thorton (under-whelming FA) + Robinson (average journeyman) = junk

Brian Simmons (downside of career, slower than ever) + Landon Johnson (better MLB than OLB, young, having sophmore slump year) + Odell (inconsistent rookie who gets gobbled up by lineman and has no protection) = no run defense.

That's about it. All I don't get is why this is surprising anyone. For the past two years the Bengals have consistently ignored anything resembling a decent DT or LB in free agency, instead picking up an assortment of castoffs (Robinson, Shaun Smith) and second-stringers (Nate Webster), while attempting to find a savior or three in the draft. Results there have been mixed: Odell and Landon will probably find a place eventually. Geathers? Maybe. Pollack, who knows? Miller? Askew? Look like garbage to me.

Hey, do we still have Larry Stevens, the "poor man's David Pollack"? Well, WTF, bring him on...

[CBin2k7]

If you look at the good run stuffing teams in the NFL, they consistently get good penetration from their DT's. They don't rely on their DE's to stop the run. I still think it's all about being physical on defense and not having a physical mentality is hurting this Defense.

[jonf45uk]

tory james looked like the only one who new how to tackle properly, rather than jumping somewhere near the runner and hoping he falls down. it says alot though when your secondary is always asked to tackle the likes of bettis

[ShulaSteakhouse]

That's about it. All I don't get is why this is surprising anyone. For the past two years the Bengals have consistently ignored anything resembling a decent DT or LB in free agency, instead picking up an assortment of castoffs (Robinson, Shaun Smith) and second-stringers (Nate Webster), while attempting to find a savior or three in the draft. Results there have been mixed: Odell and Landon will probably find a place eventually. Geathers? Maybe. Pollack, who knows? Miller? Askew? Look like garbage to me.

Hey, do we still have Larry Stevens, the "poor man's David Pollack"? Well, WTF, bring him on...

Yep ty you for bringing that up, the need has simply not been addressed (for various reasons) in the draft or FA yet. They are just "getting by" with what's available to them really. You can't build a good/great defense in the middle rounds of the draft or with cast-off, 2nd tier FA's.

When the offense here can get out to a lead early, they can force opposing offenses to go into catch-up mode and therefore make more mistakes and not run the ball as much. This happened in the Minnesota, Cleveland and Chicago games.

The Bengals should've been up at least 10-0 yesterday early on and the game might've been a whole lot different. It's just not always going to be that way against top 10 defenses.

When I see Willie Parker rush for 131 and Bettis for 56 and average well over 5 yards a carry it makes me freakin' sick. The Steelers can run the ball as well as anyone, but that is just over the top ridiculous when Big Ben only has to throw it 9 times or so and can win games that way against another team with a 5-1 record on their home turf.

Any ways, this team needs a stud DE with size, and two DT's who can plug up lanes, protect LB's and not give up so much ground constantly or get gobbled up like they do.

I am also convinced part of this is the scheme they are in - they need to make some changes on defense from a game plan perspective as well as shift some personnel around upfront.

Geathers needs to be a rotation pass rusher - nothing more for one. I would rather see Clemons play a DT spot if they are going to continue to put smallish guys inside.

And have some guts and rotate Thorton out of there more often and get Smith some more snaps and see what he can do, or just change the defensive alignment upfront altogether - something has to change there.

[ahanes]

I am physically sick after sitting at PBS and watching that sh!t from the Bengals' defense yesterday. I think back to how John Thornton said that they didn't need Corey Simon. Well, of course since Thornton's overpaid ass would have been out of a job. At this point, I'd probably let Justin Smith walk instead of overpaying to keep him around. Let's face it people, the Bengals have 2 safeties and a whole defensive line that are not playoff caliber. Like mentioned above, the offense has to play PERFECT for the Bengals to win because the defense will be giving up 20-27 points/game the rest of the year.

[AMC]

I am wondering about Askew...this guy makes the team and then they deactivate him every week...all I hear about is he was a steal in the 4th round...well, obviously not. Put him in there and see what he's got...Can't get any worse against the run....

Does anyone think this team is in the middle of a transition to a 3-4 base alignment? And we are seeing problems because of a transition period? I thought that as soon as they drafted Pollack.

[CBin2k7]

We don't have the NT for the 3-4 defense, unless they are planning something in the draft of free agency. I bet they are willing to try anything at this point.

When does the d-line coach Hayes start coming under fire?

[BengalszoneBilly]

For the past two years the Bengals have consistently ignored anything resembling a decent DT or LB in free agency,

Hell Joisey, it's not just in the free agent market, where I can understand the difficulties in getting someone to want to come and take a chance on playing in Cincy. They've ignored it in the draft as well! They instead went after undersized "speedy" defensive "specialists," or pieces for a high powered offense that don't get you diddly squat without a defense that can stop the run once in a Blue moon!

Marvin better realize he just may have a slight flaw in his "Oh-So-Wonderful" Master plan for building a winner in Cincy! I don't care what he believes. This isn't rocket science, just some simple physics:

Smaller and Faster just doesn't work at every position in this game of football!! Sometimes Bigger and Slower is the answer. Why do you think a .45 caliber slug has more knockdown power than the smaller and faster 9mm round? Same thing! Figure it out Marv...

I think back to how John Thornton said that they didn't need Corey Simon.

And I remember Mr. Robinson making the big claim upon his arrival here in the off season:

"We ARE going to stop the run!!" STFU if you're not going to back it the f**k up!

[ArmyBengal]

This is absolute BULLSH*T and anyone that thinks differently is full of SH*T. We talked about the defense during the offseason and after the draft and the one thing that came up was how will our run defense work out ?? I guess we have seen how well that has worked out after going against teams that actually have a running game and (get this) DON'T SUCK... Jacksonville and P-Burg ran our ass*s over, period. I for one am sick to death over hearing about its not just the front four. F**K you it's not the front four... It's a D**N shame we have to rely on our safties to say we can stop the run and when Madieu is done for the year, we just pack it in. That was a F**KING embarassment of an effort... Here's an idea, how about playing until you hear the whistle instead of just assuming you stopped someone, only to have them continue running and pick up a first down... Was anyone else just ready to punch their mother after watching that S**T ?? I'm so F**KING pissed at our run D, I can't stand it and whoever has the sig with "DOMINANT DEFENSE" needs to rethink that idea... Marvin, note to self, stop making excuses for a subpar defensive line (at best) and get someone in here who can do more than run their mouth about how they are going to stop the run (Robinson) only to have a RB go for 131 yards across their back.

I've been a fan for over 30 years now, have seen the good and the bad, and am not about to go anywhere now, BUT this S**T has gone on long enough. STOP THE F**KING RUN !!! Holy S**T, I don't even know any other words to describe my irritation at this point. F**K F**K F**K !!!!!!!

Anything but WHODEY at this moment !!!

[cincyhokie]

Tackling was a distant second to the way the D-line was gettting BLOWN off the ball. Sitting in the endzone you could see there was ZERO penetration at the line of scrimmage. I don't want to read another quote from a player on how they "didn't tackle well."

Even if we were up 10 or 14 to 0, we were not going to win that game with the way the Steelers controlled the line.

Justin Smith's days are numbered....he's a worhty back-up and nothing more. Thornton, you're gone. Robinson is a decent upgrade, maybe.

We NEED to hit the FA market this offseason, one rookie draft is not going to fix the glaring problems.

[Kirkendall]

Our defense can't stop the run when the opposition runs 47 times (32 in the second half). The defense can't stop anything when they are on the field for 10:24 in the 3rd quarter and 11:34 in the fourth. The defense can't do it if the offense doesn't intervene at least a few minutes in the second half...

[kingwilly]

If I hear one more time that we don't have an NT I'm going to throw up.....

f**king coach someone to be an NT. Askew, Shaun Smith, Fanene, freaking who cares. Krumrie was an NT and undersized. It is not about beef. It is about alignments and leverages. The NT is not going to make the tackles, just lead the runner to the LB who makes the tackle.

As far as the great season Justin Smith is having, I beg to differ. It was his side that Parker sprung the TD run. he was handled by the TE.

ShulaSteakhouses assesment makes exact sense. Nicely explained. Joisey, you are right, bring on Steven's, what will happen at worst, they won't stop the run?

The sad part is that with the way the game wnt, being up 14-0 before the end of the 1st was an arse hair away. The whole complexion would have changed. But alas, it was not to be and the run game was severly outclassed and outgunned.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

We NEED to hit the FA market this offseason, one rookie draft is not going to fix the glaring problems.

Ok, lets follow your plan. We hit the free agent market this offseason and ignore everything else to get run stoppers.

Guess what happens? WE go 0-16, stopping the run but being unable to put up any points because we lose most of our offensive linemen to free agency.

Good plan.

[HoosierCat]

I think all the o-line guys are signed through 2006. If you want to extend them, tho, do it now when we have $5 million in cap space...then we'll have room to shop in FA next march.

[Jet23]

We NEED to hit the FA market this offseason, one rookie draft is not going to fix the glaring problems.

Ok, lets follow your plan. We hit the free agent market this offseason and ignore everything else to get run stoppers.

Guess what happens? WE go 0-16, stopping the run but being unable to put up any points because we lose most of our offensive linemen to free agency.

Good plan.

Where in the post does it say 'totally ignore the offensive line and sign DL free agents'? So, what you are saying is we are pretty much stuck with our current DL, because they have to sign their OL? Let me get this straight....what?

[Kirkendall]

We NEED to hit the FA market this offseason, one rookie draft is not going to fix the glaring problems.

Ok, lets follow your plan. We hit the free agent market this offseason and ignore everything else to get run stoppers.

Guess what happens? WE go 0-16, stopping the run but being unable to put up any points because we lose most of our offensive linemen to free agency.

Good plan.

Where in the post does it say 'totally ignore the offensive line and sign DL free agents'? So, what you are saying is we are pretty much stuck with our current DL, because they have to sign their OL? Let me get this straight....what?

But the bigger question is who is available?