Marvin has the Bengals doing what he intended

[BengalszoneBilly]

Marvin Lewis said the focus this season was a "fast start" and I'll be dammed if that's not exactly what he's done. I just didn't think he'd force the issue offensively!

Don't get me wrong, I knew that Carson and crew would be a potent force, but I thought with his strong defensive backround that eventually he'd come up with the "Killer/Top Five" defensive unit for Cincinnati that he's previously been known to fashion as a coach/coordinator in previous jobs in Baltimore and Washington.

That isn't happening, nor at this point do I expect it to. Granted, the Vikings were held to a measley 8 points, but I give the pressure applied by the quick scores by the Bengals offense as much credit for that as I do the Bengals undeniable "Bend But Don't Break" defense. (You guy's have no idea how much I hated typing out that last sentence... )

Okay...I'll deal with it. Marvin Lewis's job now is the teams HEAD coach, so he's looking at the whole team picture, instead of just the defense as he did before. He has the entire Cincinnati Bengals team on course now, just as he did those defensive units he was responsible for in the past.

If I have to grade him now on his overall job, after a pretty disheartening (to me anyway) preseason, followed by two (winning) games into the regular season...I'd have to go from a B+ to an A-. Leaning heavily towards the "A-" side though.

[kingwilly]

Hat's off to Bres. His plan gave us +6 in the takeaway vs a serious team over the last few years. Bres has these guys playing to their strength and limited thier mistakes on thier weakenesses. Nice job Bres getting the most out of your young and powerful D.

[Stripes]

While Marvin gets a large majority of the credit for turning the Bengals into a real football team, some of the credit for the evident turnaround late last year and early this year should go to Marvin's first draft pick, Carson Palmer. He didn't complain a lick about sitting out his rookie season, and he is now developing into a superstar faster than any quarterback I've seen in a long while.

With Marvin at the helm and Palmer under center, this team can go a long long way.

[andybren]

I'm surprised by your surprise. The offense is picking up where they left off. That's what happens when you bring back all 11 starters.

I'm also surprised by your head coach/defensive coordinator comments. I saw nothing in the previous two seasons to indicate that Marvin wasn't coaching the whole team, instead of just focusing on the defense. And one only has to look over to Indianapolis to see that this isn't a unique situation --- a coach known for building defenses leading a strong offensive team.

I guess you and I haven't been watching the same team.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I'm surprised by your surprise. The offense is picking up where they left off. That's what happens when you bring back all 11 starters.

I'm also surprised by your head coach/defensive coordinator comments. I saw nothing in the previous two seasons to indicate that Marvin wasn't coaching the whole team, instead of just focusing on the defense. And one only has to look over to Indianapolis to see that this isn't a unique situation --- a coach known for building defenses leading a strong offensive team.

I guess you and I haven't been watching the same team.

That's where you're wrong, we're watching the same team, but that's all you're watching. The point I was getting at (and which I thought I drew pretty clearly, but I'll break out the crayola's if I have to) is his history PREVIOUS to coming to Cincinnati, hence my waxings poetically in the 2nd paragraph:

Don't get me wrong, I knew that Carson and crew would be a potent force, but I thought with his strong defensive backround that eventually he'd come up with the "Killer/Top Five" defensive unit for Cincinnati that he's previously been known to fashion as a coach/coordinator in previous jobs in Baltimore and Washington.

Of course the offense picked back up where they left off. No reason to expect anything else even though the preseason had me a tad bit worried. I'm simply saying that when I took Marvin Lewis's past experiences in the league, (all defensive coaching positions) that he, with the help of new coordinator Bresnahan would immensely improve the defense and they would be the driving force in any "fast start" the Bengals might enjoy. Especially after the strong defensive draft. Obviously I was wrong.

Ummm, I'd like to keep that me being wrong part on the down-low. If my girlfriend ever gets wind of that I'll never hear the end of it.

[buck3y3d]

Hat's off to Bres. His plan gave us +6 in the takeaway vs a serious team over the last few years. Bres has these guys playing to their strength and limited thier mistakes on thier weakenesses. Nice job Bres getting the most out of your young and powerful D.

I'm still not sold on Bresnehan. There are still gaping holes in the run defense, which have been ignored because the Browns/Vikes both turn it over. Secondly, Frasier also ran an opportunistic defense (I'm guessing top 5 in the NFL), which means i have seen very little change in the defense. The corners still have average coverage, but hit hard and take chances. I''m going to wait until we play an offensively proven team like, Indy, Pittsburgh (for running the ball), or even Jacksonville.

[WHO DEY AGAIN?]

I'm still not sold on Bresnehan. There are still gaping holes in the run defense, which have been ignored because the Browns/Vikes both turn it over. Secondly, Frasier also ran an opportunistic defense (I'm guessing top 5 in the NFL), which means i have seen very little change in the defense. The corners still have average coverage, but hit hard and take chances. I''m going to wait until we play an offensively proven team like, Indy, Pittsburgh (for running the ball), or even Jacksonville.

I know it's has been a while since we have witnessed some good D but come on. The D has done more so far than anyone here might have wished. I like the make up of this D so far.. No freakin complaints here!

WHO f**king DEY! :player:

[buck3y3d]

It's just my opinion that the defense could still be the Achiles tendon for this team. The D played well today, but initially, the Vikings were running the ball very well. This was abandoned very quickly as they were down by multiple TDs. Furthermore, imho, the Bengals sacks were mostly coverage sacks and not pass rushes.

I am excited about what this year has to offer, but i'm not going to sing someone's praises (Bresnehan) when he hasn't done anything yet. If the Bengals play an experienced and well coached team, they will have to win by outscoring them in shootout type setting, or relying on getting turnovers (I doubt the Bengals will ever have 5 ints and 2 fumble recoveries again this season).

Don't take this is a pessimism because i liked what i saw, but i don't think we have a good (top 10) defense as of yet.

[HoosierCat]

It doesn't surprise me that it's the offense, not the defense, leading the way. When Lewis came to town, he inherited a club with a solid offensive core (Willie, Levi, Braham, Chad, TJ, Warrick, Dillon, Rudi & Kitna) and a No. 1 overall pick which was almost inevitably going to be used on another franchise QB prospect. OTOH, the D was a wreck, and it has taken a lot of work -- work that still is far from done -- to get it as far as it has. But it's coming...indeed, it is coming. :player:

[CBin2k7]

Furthermore, imho, the Bengals sacks were mostly coverage sacks and not pass rushes. 

How can you say the corner's are not playing well and then say that the sacks are coverage sacks? I think the Bengals did things on D that confused Culpepper and they had some good pressure. Only giving up 21 points in 2 games is very good, I dont' care who you are playing or how you are doing it.

And it didn't get more proven on Offense than Minnesota and Dilfer threw for 330 more yards this week vs. Green Bay. I guess if the D plays well next week, then it's only because they played Chicago with a rookie quarterback.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I'm a "Bookends" kind of guy. When we have one good thing (like the offense) I want another one just as good (Maybe the defense in the future) to go with it so I have a great pair!

I think I just discovered why my sig is the way it is!

[HairOnFire]

Don't get me wrong, I knew that Carson and crew would be a potent force, but I thought with his strong defensive backround that eventually he'd come up with the "Killer/Top Five" defensive unit for Cincinnati that he's previously been known to fashion as a coach/coordinator in previous jobs in Baltimore and Washington.

That isn't happening, nor at this point do I expect it to. Granted, the Vikings were held to a measley 8 points, but I give the pressure applied by the quick scores by the Bengals offense as much credit for that as I do the Bengals undeniable "Bend But Don't Break" defense. (You guy's have no idea how much I hated typing out that last sentence... )

I'm not going to argue with the mention of a top 5 defense, but I will say that the biggest surprise so far this season is the defense. They aren't perfect, and if you didn't make the point about the offense helping them out I would have made it myself. But it works both ways. How many times today did the defense not only turn the ball over to the offense, but give them a short field to work with. And how many times did they prevent the Vikings from scoring even when their offense had some success? That kept the game firmly in control.

Nearly every pass is contested. Gang tackling everywhere. Huge hits. Crushing hits. Monster hits. Turnovers. A run defense that was disciplined against Cleveland. A pass rush that came in waves today.

Top 5? No, but they're coming. You can see it.

Damn, I wanted a shutout so bad today it still hurts.

[Kazkal]

the defense is getting the job done thats what matters,it may be giving up yards but it hasen't been giving up points....

[HairOnFire]

But it's coming...indeed, it is coming. :player:

Nice. I just wrote the same thing before reading your post.

They're closer than people think.

[BengalFanInMinnestoA]

Marvin is doing what is perfect for this team he is building through the draft, and not out spending big bucks on the free agent market, he is getting young guys who are coming out of college who are excited to play football and molding them into his image. When he does go after a free agent he makes sure he is getting an experienced leader who puts the team ahead of himself. The defense is a aggressive, fast, hard-nosed, high energy, hard-hitting unit. With the offense set for the next few years look for the defense to get better next year, with the draft and the experience this years rookies. This was the first Bengals game I had the pleasure of watching since last years Monday Nighter, and what I saw against the Vikes, a team whom I have to watch every weekend because of my location, was a dominating performance that I think is going to carry on for the rest of the year. This is a hell of a team.

[Kazkal]

And I know our defense isen't top top 5 but I think our defense has improved "alot" compared to last year

[redsbengalsbucks]

IMO a top 5 defense is not needed, it would be nice, but the offense seems to be capable of helping the defense put teams into one dimensional attacks. I think a middle of the pack defense is probably the best that the Bengals will be this season, to much youth to have good consistency, but that should be enough to carry us to a winning season and a playoff run.

How much more can we ask for?

[BengalszoneBilly]

And I know our defense isen't top top 5 but I think our defense has improved "alot" compared to last year

All I want is whats in your sig line Kaz...a DOMINANT "D"!!!

I'm so afraid of having an offense that carries us to the Super Bowl, and yet another defense that CANNOT CLOSE THE DEAL!!

  IMO a top 5 defense is not needed

Yeah, I think I heard that said in '88 too. I swear if it happens again, in goes the magazine, release the slide, round goes into the .45's chamber, barrel into the mouth, squeeze the trigger and BLAMMO! Brains everywhere!

[membengal]

And I know our defense isen't top top 5 but I think our defense has improved "alot" compared to last year

All I want is whats in your sig line Kaz...a DOMINANT "D"!!!

I'm so afraid of having an offense that carries us to the Super Bowl, and yet another defense that CANNOT CLOSE THE DEAL!!

  IMO a top 5 defense is not needed

Yeah, I think I heard that said in '88 too. I swear if it happens again, in goes the magazine, release the slide, round goes into the .45's chamber, barrel into the mouth, squeeze the trigger and BLAMMO! Brains everywhere!

In fairness, in 1988, while the offense carried them to the playoffs, the D stepped up huge in the Super Bowl and it was really, ironcally enough, the offense that could not close that deal...

[BengalszoneBilly]

And I know our defense isen't top top 5 but I think our defense has improved "alot" compared to last year

All I want is whats in your sig line Kaz...a DOMINANT "D"!!!

I'm so afraid of having an offense that carries us to the Super Bowl, and yet another defense that CANNOT CLOSE THE DEAL!!

  IMO a top 5 defense is not needed

Yeah, I think I heard that said in '88 too. I swear if it happens again, in goes the magazine, release the slide, round goes into the .45's chamber, barrel into the mouth, squeeze the trigger and BLAMMO! Brains everywhere!

In fairness, in 1988, while the offense carried them to the playoffs, the D stepped up huge in the Super Bowl and it was really, ironcally enough, the offense that could not close that deal...

Funny...I could have sworn the defense was the unit that let the 'Niners waltz down the field, drop the sure interception in the freaking endzone no less then leave the reciever open in the endzone for Montana to easily hit with a pass.

The offense had given the defense the lead with minimal time left. And the reality is they did not hold it. You look at it anyway you want, but that's the way it ended, with the defense giving up the go ahead score, and the Bengals losing the Super Bowl.

[membengal]

Here's what I remember, Bengals ONLY td came on a Stanford Jennings kick-off return. Other than that, Boomer led them to three field goals. That's it.

At that point, the D, minus the sadly broken Tim Krumrie had held one of the best offenses of our time to 13 total points.

If the offense had been even slightly better, Montana is not in position to lead that final fateful drive.

Offense cost us that game.

[buck3y3d]

Furthermore, imho, the Bengals sacks were mostly coverage sacks and not pass rushes. 

How can you say the corner's are not playing well and then say that the sacks are coverage sacks? I think the Bengals did things on D that confused Culpepper and they had some good pressure. Only giving up 21 points in 2 games is very good, I dont' care who you are playing or how you are doing it.

And it didn't get more proven on Offense than Minnesota and Dilfer threw for 330 more yards this week vs. Green Bay. I guess if the D plays well next week, then it's only because they played Chicago with a rookie quarterback.

First of all, Minnesota's offense this year is not proven (they lost their best player and Culpepper looks lost). Secondly, Green Bay also got blown out by a team led by Harrington, which means Dilfer surely did well (this is sarcasm).

By coverage sacks, i meant that the pass rush took a very long time to get to the quarterback. I know you are pretty much a homer (and i would consider myself one too), but if you watched the first 2 games, Cleveland and Minnesota were running very well in the 1st quarter, only to fumble the ball. Now if the opposing team is going to fumble the ball every time they start running it well, then we are fine. However, i believe the Bengals defense looks much better than they may be.

The Bengals could make the playoffs, but the D will be along for the ride for at least the 1st half of the season. And you are correct saying that if the corners play well next week, some of the credit will go to Orton for making mistakes. however, Chicago has a proven running game, and if the Bengals can actually stop them (not by merely getting a lead and forcing the opponent to pass) i will agree that the defense has been improved. until this point (this is my opinion and you can agree to disagree), it is my opinion that the Bengals still have some weak spots on D. (We started 2-0 in 2001, and while i think this season will be different, i think we all know how that one ended up)

[CBin2k7]

You are right, I just looked at the stats and my only cause for concern is the 5.4 yds per carry but if the Bengals continue to get leads the running game will be rendered ineffective.

[Green 66]

while i do think that there is still a learning curve out there with the defense, remember also that the defense is still missing Clemons which could be effecting there effectiveness in getting to the QB. Still they need to tighten up, which will happen, however the whole team is playing with alot of confidence this year which is particularly nice.

Mike Green

Waynesville Ohio

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Furthermore, imho, the Bengals sacks were mostly coverage sacks and not pass rushes. 

How can you say the corner's are not playing well and then say that the sacks are coverage sacks? I think the Bengals did things on D that confused Culpepper and they had some good pressure. Only giving up 21 points in 2 games is very good, I dont' care who you are playing or how you are doing it.

And it didn't get more proven on Offense than Minnesota and Dilfer threw for 330 more yards this week vs. Green Bay. I guess if the D plays well next week, then it's only because they played Chicago with a rookie quarterback.

First of all, Minnesota's offense this year is not proven (they lost their best player and Culpepper looks lost). Secondly, Green Bay also got blown out by a team led by Harrington, which means Dilfer surely did well (this is sarcasm).

By coverage sacks, i meant that the pass rush took a very long time to get to the quarterback. I know you are pretty much a homer (and i would consider myself one too), but if you watched the first 2 games, Cleveland and Minnesota were running very well in the 1st quarter, only to fumble the ball. Now if the opposing team is going to fumble the ball every time they start running it well, then we are fine. However, i believe the Bengals defense looks much better than they may be.

The Bengals could make the playoffs, but the D will be along for the ride for at least the 1st half of the season. And you are correct saying that if the corners play well next week, some of the credit will go to Orton for making mistakes. however, Chicago has a proven running game, and if the Bengals can actually stop them (not by merely getting a lead and forcing the opponent to pass) i will agree that the defense has been improved. until this point (this is my opinion and you can agree to disagree), it is my opinion that the Bengals still have some weak spots on D. (We started 2-0 in 2001, and while i think this season will be different, i think we all know how that one ended up)

<applauds>

Pretty much how I feel.

They made too many glaring mistakes and the defense gave up too much yardage.

I think they "can" be great, but I'm not sold quite yet. I really don't care if people are obsessed with predicting things and then coming back and patting themselves on the a$$ if it comes true. In fact that's pretty annoying.

We shall see how they react to a fired up Chicago team returning home next week with a very good defense...I'll be there in-person at least!