What Were You Most Impressed With?

[HairOnFire]

I have to say I was impressed with Odell, although I'm not gonna go to the extremes of some of these posters (who shall remain nameless) and declare him a Ray Lewis type Pro Bowl LBer.

I was excited when we first drafted him.....and still am.

Getting a INT in your first game is a great start though.

And man can he hit.

Yeah, the Ray Lewis comparison is premature. So how about Bill Bergy?

Think about it this way. Bergy was famous for his hitting ability and was legendary for his ability to shed a block and gather himself from a near standing still position to deliver a crushing hit on a ballcarrier who was moving at full speed. I can't tell you how many times I watched a ballcarrier who looked like a runaway bull suddenly going down as if they had run into a parked car.

Ehhh?

[DontPushMe]

True that when you look at the overall stats for the yards-per-carry it is 5.27.  But if you remove the one run for 24-years it comes down to 4.17.  New England at the end of last year was rated as 3.9 yards per carry.  What I'm saying is that NO the 5.27 isn't good, but the 4.17 is respectable.  We saw the defense adjust after that one long run.  It's a step forward....a step in the right direction.

So stupid. Yeah, while we are removing that 24 yard run to make the stat sheet look better, lets just remove every run over 1 yard, then our run D will look great!

Droughns, the starting RB for the browns in that game, had a ypc average over 6, that is not good, We dont remove certain plays and act like they didnt happen in order to make ourselves feel better, look at it how it actually was.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Frankly, I don't care much about YPC avg. if they don't put it in the endzone, which they failed to do.

Its that simple.

That's like running for 200 yards, but getting no TD's.

It's nice, but I mean, you didn't score.

That's going to be a problem later. Bengals only got them out of their running game because the Browns couldn't get stops and gave up on the run. They shouldn't have.

I'll feel better once the Bengals hold a decent running team to under 4 YPC on more than 20-25 carries. I think part of the worry about the run D is that if the Browns could run for over 6 YPC, a decent team will kill the Bengals. Hope not.

[Stripes]

True that when you look at the overall stats for the yards-per-carry it is 5.27.  But if you remove the one run for 24-years it comes down to 4.17.  New England at the end of last year was rated as 3.9 yards per carry.  What I'm saying is that NO the 5.27 isn't good, but the 4.17 is respectable.  We saw the defense adjust after that one long run.  It's a step forward....a step in the right direction.

So stupid. Yeah, while we are removing that 24 yard run to make the stat sheet look better, lets just remove every run over 1 yard, then our run D will look great!

Droughns, the starting RB for the browns in that game, had a ypc average over 6, that is not good, We dont remove certain plays and act like they didnt happen in order to make ourselves feel better, look at it how it actually was.

I can agree that it is dumb to look at statistics after removing the biggest play, but I don't think that was his primary point. He said the yards per carry given up was bad, very bad, but the team showed obvious improvement as the game wore on, and that fact can't be ignored.

It could be argued that the run defense stiffened up in the second half because the Browns were playing catchup, but they still stuck with the running game deep into the third quarter.

This entire point is null and void, obviously, if we continuously give up big runs early in games.

[John Stofa]

A large part of the 95 yards allowed rushing was that the Browns fell behind and had to pass the ball, eschewing the running game, ergo that part is far less impressive.

The truly telling stat about the rush defense is the yards per carry. The two running backs with carries against the Bengals went for an average of 5.44 yards per carry, which is very high. Quite honestly, the Bengals run defense was, by this measure, about as bad as it has ever been.......

You're exactly right. The total rushing yards figure is extremely misleading when you consider the average yards per carry and the fact the Browns fell way behind early in the second half and were forced to start throwing the ball 90% of the time.

[HairOnFire]

True that when you look at the overall stats for the yards-per-carry it is 5.27.  But if you remove the one run for 24-years it comes down to 4.17.  New England at the end of last year was rated as 3.9 yards per carry.  What I'm saying is that NO the 5.27 isn't good, but the 4.17 is respectable.  We saw the defense adjust after that one long run.  It's a step forward....a step in the right direction.

So stupid. Yeah, while we are removing that 24 yard run to make the stat sheet look better, lets just remove every run over 1 yard, then our run D will look great!

Droughns, the starting RB for the browns in that game, had a ypc average over 6, that is not good, We dont remove certain plays and act like they didnt happen in order to make ourselves feel better, look at it how it actually was.

I can agree that it is dumb to look at statistics after removing the biggest play, but I don't think that was his primary point. He said the yards per carry given up was bad, very bad, but the team showed obvious improvement as the game wore on, and that fact can't be ignored.

I'll argue that almost any stat based debate is pointless, especially this one. The Browns head coach stated that Bengal defensive adjustments midway thru the 1st quarter prompted the Browns to abandon Droughns in favor of a RB who was more of a threat in the passing game. Frankly, there's absolutely no need to spin that. Who really cares how lofty a players ypc average might be when his own head coach removes him due to ineffectiveness? And btw, you guys can stuff that crap about the Browns abandoning their running game because they fell behind by so much. According to their head coach the Browns bailed on their running game at the end of the 1st quarter due to the things the Bengals defense was doing.

[membengal]

Thanks hair. Perfectly said with clarity and a reference to facts.

[HoosierCat]

True that when you look at the overall stats for the yards-per-carry it is 5.27.  But if you remove the one run for 24-years it comes down to 4.17.  New England at the end of last year was rated as 3.9 yards per carry.  What I'm saying is that NO the 5.27 isn't good, but the 4.17 is respectable.  We saw the defense adjust after that one long run.  It's a step forward....a step in the right direction.

So stupid. Yeah, while we are removing that 24 yard run to make the stat sheet look better, lets just remove every run over 1 yard, then our run D will look great!

Droughns, the starting RB for the browns in that game, had a ypc average over 6, that is not good, We dont remove certain plays and act like they didnt happen in order to make ourselves feel better, look at it how it actually was.

I can agree that it is dumb to look at statistics after removing the biggest play, but I don't think that was his primary point. He said the yards per carry given up was bad, very bad, but the team showed obvious improvement as the game wore on, and that fact can't be ignored.

I'll argue that almost any stat based debate is pointless, especially this one. The Browns head coach stated that Bengal defensive adjustments midway thru the 1st quarter prompted the Browns to abandon Droughns in favor of a RB who was more of a threat in the passing game. Frankly, there's absolutely no need to spin that. Who really cares how lofty a players ypc average might be when his own head coach removes him due to ineffectiveness? And btw, you guys can stuff that crap about the Browns abandoning their running game because they fell behind by so much. According to their head coach the Browns bailed on their running game at the end of the 1st quarter due to the things the Bengals defense was doing.

I would say that, rather than being pointless, the stats simply back Romeo (and your contention) up all the way. Here's how the Browns runs went in the first half:

24

1

2

7

6

1

2

1

3

6

From a ypc standpoint, yeah, that looks like a crappy run D, 5.3 yards per. But Romeo on the sidelines isn't actually seeing 5 yards a carry; he saw one big run followed by mostly ca-ca.

This reminds me of last year and the first two games. In each of those we gave up huge numbers on the ground. But in the first game against the Jets, Curtis Martin's longest run was something like 24 yards; he just murdered us every time he touched the ball. In the second game Jamal Lewis had two big runs for about 125 yards combined, and averaged about 2 yards every other time he touched the ball. The Jets game was bad run D; the Ravens game was giving up big plays on the ground.

In the Cleveland game, our run defense overall was very good; the problem was a breakdown on the first play that allowed a big play. I find it very heartening that that did not happen again, and I feel good about our chances of carrying that over vs. Minny.

[TJJackson]

I'm not sure I entirely trust what in effect is a compliment from the Brown's head coach on the Bengals defense.....the stats do not lie, and the cleveland ypc is unmistakeably high.

Said another way, he could say Willie Anderson has the waistline and beauty of a ballerina, but the facts speak otherwise....and I would not believe this statement any more than I would about how great our run defense was.

I'll ask one more thing: do you hear any Bengas coaches talking about how great our run defense was? Link me to the quotes, please......

[NYBengalfan]

I would have to say Carson looking absolutely unstoppable.

Cleveland would bring the blitz and most of the time Palmer would stay calm and get off an accurate pass. Yes he did have some mistakes, BUT the good tremenously outweighed the bad.

And lets not forget that whe he stayed in the pocket he took the shot. Not only is he cool under heat he also is a TOUGH SON OF A BITCH!!!!!!

[HoosierCat]

I'm not sure I entirely trust what in effect is a compliment from the Brown's head coach on the Bengals defense.....the stats do not lie,

Indeed they don't...see my post just above your last one. Yes, the ypc is high, but that's because the ypc is an aggregate figure skewed by a single data point (that 24 yard run) that isn't representative of the rest of the series.

The run D wasn't an issue Sunday. The Bengals' tendency, which carries over from last year, of giving up a couple big plays (the 24 yard run, the 68 yard TD pass) remains a problem.

[TecmoFever]

Best defensive player was Thurman. I really think Marvin has been combing every one of the drafts for a player like him. My feeling is he will be the rookie of the year.

I was just talking about this with a friend of mine. It would be great to see a Bengal win an award besides Comeback Player of the Year, and I think Odell has a good chance to do it. I think he's going to have the kind of impact on our D that Vilma did for the Jets last year.

By the way, I love this argument on the withdrawal of the 24-yard run. Both sides bring up great points, but those points continually get ignored as the other side tries to prove his point again.

I'm just glad that we're talking about whether or not to include a 24-yard run in our defensive ypc stats, and not talking about how this week is a must-win because we dropped a game we needed in Cleveland.

WHO DEY!

[DontPushMe]

I'm not sure I entirely trust what in effect is a compliment from the Brown's head coach on the Bengals defense.....the stats do not lie,

Indeed they don't...see my post just above your last one. Yes, the ypc is high, but that's because the ypc is an aggregate figure skewed by a single data point (that 24 yard run) that isn't representative of the rest of the series.

The run D wasn't an issue Sunday. The Bengals' tendency, which carries over from last year, of giving up a couple big plays (the 24 yard run, the 68 yard TD pass) remains a problem.

I can agree with this.

I wasnt really saying our run d was bad, it just wasnt an advantage, and didnt impress me, it did look to be improved a bit from last year, but remember these were the browns and their Denver RB, id like to wait untill we face a legit team and established RB before handing out praise. I think the first time we face a serious threat at RB is week 4 vs Houston (though that threat is more from him as a receiver), provided Benson is still Chicago's #2 when we play them.

For the record i voted for Palmer, dude was sick.

[BengalszoneBilly]

You know...I gotta go with that last one.

...kidding of course. As awesome as her girls are, Carson was even better, and that's not easy!

[The Big Orange]

Does she work at a dairy?

[Stripes]

Does she work at a dairy?

[HairOnFire]

I'll ask one more thing: do you hear any Bengas coaches talking about how great our run defense was? Link me to the quotes, please......

I haven't seen any, and I don't expect to for two reasons. First, it's out of character for Marvin to prop these guys up when they haven't done anything more than what is expected of them. Second, Marvin knows what many of us know, that being the fact that stats from one week don't hurt OR help you a bit the following week. And along those same lines I don't expect to see the same Viking team that just stunk it up nor do I expect the Bengals to repeat exactly their performance against Cleveland. All I know for certain is Cleveland's run game was predicted to be a major factor in the opener and it wasn't. We move on.

Last point. If you see the entire interview with Romeo you'd see that he didn't go out of his way to give the Bengals defense credit, but felt the need to defend his decision to replace a starting RB when a reporter mentioned some of the same stats being kicked around here. His response pointed directly to a team that had to adjust to the adjustments the Bengals had made. Specifically, the Browns simply couldn't count on their running game, even in extremly short yardage situations, and preferred to attack with short passes. And I'll take that every time...including this weekend against the Vikings.

[TJJackson]

Hmm.....

I believe you....I didn't hear this interview myself, but I trust that you are relating the essence of it accurately, and that's fine and all. I accept what you are saying.

But then on the other hand, I also am quite sure he had his offensive assistant coaches (or other Browns personnel) feeding him data that indicated that the running game (as borne out by the results, as spelled out by the stats) was being effective. In the game I saw, the Brown's running game was (while unspectacular) effective.

So I guess I don't know what to believe.

Maybe I shoud just give it a couple of weeks against a couple more teams to see how our rush defense stats look like then, and see if it remains consistently high or if the per game averages hereafter are lower.