Problems/Marvin Do Your Job

[kingwilly]

By all account, these players are pretty good. Top draft picks, players to the Pro Bowl. Heisman.

Could this be a coaching problem. I think Brat sucks aZZ and Bres has not been given a chance but is this a ML thing???

just thinking out loud.

[walzav29]

If they do the same thing 8-8. I will think he is just a rah-rah guy. I think the best are the schemers and hard-ass's. Players tune it out after a while. Belichek, Parcells have systems that work. Not just the words. If they're 8-8 again. Then I'll just give up. 25 years is too long to wait for anything.

[ackley1]

it's preseason! if we don't make the playoffs this year then we should start criticizing.

[Humanzee 5000]

Parcells' system apparently doesn't really work anymore. I think putting this on Marvin is a little bit or a lotta bit premature.

Brat, maybe. Bresna, give him a few minute.

s**t or get off the pot, but Bresnahan just got his pants around his ankles. I think for Marvin Lewis, Brat is grabbing a few squares of TP at this point. He doesn't get his s**t together, he'll be putting the lid back down and flushing before we know it.

[Stripes]

The starting defense hasn't been all that bad, except against Philly, so Bresnahan is doing fine. Bratkowski is a bad offensive coordinator, pure and simple. He is the primary problem with the offense. Marvin is not to blame for anything.

[JungleFanatic]

Bratkowski is a bad offensive coordinator, pure and simple.  He is the primary problem with the offense. 

I agree!

He's overly conservative when we need to be aggressive.

That aside though our lack of execution on both sides of the ball is quite troubling.

But I'll take my annual wait and see approach.

:player: WHO-DEY :player:

[Spain]

Thats not the way I see it! This is all Marvin! He wanted a fast start and cut practise and time and now they are behind! Pure and simple1 Good bye playoffs!

[boomerman]

What happened to "In Marvin we trust"?

As much as I hate to admit it, we need to see some RESULTS this year.

[HoosierCat]

It isn't coaching, it's sloppy play. Dropped balls, missed tackles, o-linemen getting blown up and whistled for penalties. That said, we saw a number of things last night...

...while Big Stacy is coming along, he's not there yet. I was concerned to hear Lap comment before the game about how rusty Willie looked in practice earlier in the week.

...Levi is still hit or miss on any given play.

...The Bengals seem to be the Emily Latella's of the NFL so far this preseason: "if it's not one thing, it's another." Case in point, the passing game. Earlier it had been a timing/accuracy issue with Carson. Last night he was much more on target...and his receivers couldn't catch.

...K2 and Herring are hoplessly inadequate as safeties vs. any kind of solid receiving corps. We nee Madieu back badly.

...This team's D needs about a week of nothing but tackling drills.

...Pollack looked good for his first time out.

...Matt Schobel makes this team.

[walzav29]

I don't know where I heard that from, but it seems like a good idea. How about getting your team to play defense and quit having them in spots that they shouldn't be in. Get the receivers to focus and the linemen to block. Why don't you rely on your drafts instead of every year getting guys at the same position the year before. If your defensive line sucks and you have a running back. How about drafting a DT (Wolfork) instead of another running back. DO YOUR DAMN JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[schweinhart]

I've got add about coaching that I really don't think the Bengals fare well when they rely too much on zone vs. pass. It's glaring w/ the safety play vs. a great WR like TO, but it was evident last year a lot too. I'd much rather see O'Neal and James play man all over the field whenever possible.

They're gonna see some decent WRs in game 1 vs. Clowns -- Antonio Bryant is a bada$$ possession receiver who can cause problems downfield too. Northcutt is a P-Dub type who gets it done w/ stops, outs, and middle of the field routes and Braylon Edwards looks like he'll be a threat on the go. I'd much rather see th CBs play these WRs man than leave Dilfer a sh*t load of soft spots and over-the-top opps.

O'Neal can handle either Edwards or Northcutt but Bryant will be hard for him to tackle like TO was. James has still got enough to deal w/ Bryant in man IMO. If it means the CBs got to switch sides to cover their man so be it. I'd rather see more aggressive coverage and capitalize on the pass rushing abilities this team has.

I say force perfect throws and safety blitz Dilfer to death when he drops back.

[bengalskyspy]

Brat's favorite call--- 3rd and 20 --- draw play. WTF. WTF. WTF!!!!!! It has never ever worked you ignorant moron!!!! Where is the freakin "all world" offense?

[kybengalsfan]

This may sound overly simplistic, but I believe someone needs to get our guys fired up before a game. They had no fire, no heart, and looked extremely confused. They need some emotion. Darn, before the pre-season I was really looking forward to this season being fun; now I am wondering if my season tickets might be a bad investment. Come on Marvin, get these guys fired up! They look like they just arrived at the country club.

[derekshank]

If they do the same thing 8-8. I will think he is just a rah-rah guy. I think the best are the schemers and hard-ass's. Players tune it out after a while. Belichek, Parcells have systems that work. Not just the words. If they're 8-8 again. Then I'll just give up. 25 years is too long to wait for anything.

damn... You are sounding defeated already, and the season hasn't even started. Giving up on Marvin Lewis, giving up on the Bengals period. I understand that the team has sucked for a long time... and I don't expect people to spend a lot of their hard-earned money to go watch a team lose... but to give up on your team.... man that's weak.

The Boston Red-Sox fans got something last year that Yankee fans will never experience, and that is a championship after decades of heartbreak... fighting the urge to give up, being die-hard for a team that at times looked like it had no hope.

Same with the Cubs fans when (well, if) they eventually win. No one can deny that the Bengals are headed in the right direction. When in the last decade have analysts written positve articles about Cincy in the offseason?

If they end up 8-8... it will be very disappointing, but stay the course. You'll be feeling pretty salty when the rest of us are chanting whodey in the superbowl 10 years from now, and you are forced to admit that at one point you gave up on us.

[HoosierCat]

One thing I have noticed, coaching-wise, in the postgame coverage today, is that I'm not sure that the team and its head coach are on the same page.

Marvin Lewis is, quite obviously, p*ssed.

The players, however, are all in "don't worry, be happy" mode. Lots of yap yap yap about how it's just preseason, it'll all get fixed, we just need (another) week, etc.

Marvin's response has been to directly attack this attitude with lines about how it's time to quit talking and start playing. But the very fact he has to address it is, to me, extremely troubling. We've seen Bengal teams lose faith in and start ignoring their head coach before. I don't think it's anywhere near that Shula/Coslet level yet...but there is clearly a separation between the coach and the team as to the urgency of the situation.

And frankly, I agree with Marvin.

[cHaD711Johnson]

If you think Marvin is a rah rah guy and isnt a hard ass coach you obviously don't watch any games or practices For any little mistake I have seen Marvin berate players terribly on the sidelines even in instances when the Bengals were up big

[membengal]

One thing I have noticed, coaching-wise, in the postgame coverage today, is that I'm not sure that the team and its head coach are on the same page.

Marvin Lewis is, quite obviously, p*ssed.

The players, however, are all in "don't worry, be happy" mode. Lots of yap yap yap about how it's just preseason, it'll all get fixed, we just need (another) week, etc.

Marvin's response has been to directly attack this attitude with lines about how it's time to quit talking and start playing. But the very fact he has to address it is, to me, extremely troubling. We've seen Bengal teams lose faith in and start ignoring their head coach before. I don't think it's anywhere near that Shula/Coslet level yet...but there is clearly a separation between the coach and the team as to the urgency of the situation.

And frankly, I agree with Marvin.

Yup, good post and observation joisey. Only thing that makes me feel a little better this morning is reading that Lewis plans to make extensive use of that debacle at practice this week.

Really, if they refuse to be pros and grow up and get ready to play the game in front of them, what the hell do they think they are doing?

Hobson's opening line to his column this morning captures my unease...that last night smacked of 2002. It was pretty easy to recall those dark days. I am still flabbergasted that they were so mentally unprepared to face an Owens who McNabb was clearly going to be looking at and looking at early.

[bengalboomer7]

I disagree Joisey. We all know with Marvin and most players don't give the media much. I don't pay too close attention to the media anymore. What I found a little troubling is some of the whiny talk about how hard there woking and it's not training camp or we're not in Georgetwon. What's that all about. Did they actually think because Training camp was shorter that it wouls be easier?

[HoosierCat]

I disagree Joisey. We all know with Marvin and most players don't give the media much. I don't pay too close attention to the media anymore. What I found a little troubling is some of the whiny talk about how hard there woking and it's not training camp or we're not in Georgetwon. What's that all about. Did they actually think because Training camp was shorter that it wouls be easier?

I don't see why you disagree...you are only underlining my point. On one hand you have the players who seem to think that leaving Gergetown means it's sort of a "working vacation" until September 11, and on the other a coach who expects them to be out there busting their butts in practice. Again, more separation between what the players think they need, and the coach thinks they need.

[Bwestbrook36]

you guys are over reacting. NO ONE WOULD HAVE BEATEN THE EAGLES TONIGHT BECAUSE OF TO. the did this to the ravens last year. if this game was in cinci then it would have been diffrent, but the eagles D played off the crowed. the thing i am pissed about is that our wide recievers are not making any plays. TJ isnt earning my salary right now. 7.25 an hour is bout what he should get. and i love the guy but chad needs to shut his mouth and make some plays. its not marvin its lack of execution. carson is playing fine right now.

WE WILL MAKE PLAYOFFS. :player: :player:

[LABengalsFan09]

you guys are over reacting. NO ONE WOULD HAVE BEATEN THE EAGLES TONIGHT BECAUSE OF TO. the did this to the ravens last year. if this game was in cinci then it would have been diffrent, but the eagles D played off the crowed. the thing i am pissed about is that our wide recievers are not making any plays. TJ isnt earning my salary right now. 7.25 an hour is bout what he should get. and i love the guy but chad needs to shut his mouth and make some plays. its not marvin its lack of execution. carson is playing fine right now.

WE WILL MAKE PLAYOFFS. 

Does anyone else find this post odd coming from a person with the name BWestbrook36?

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I don't care if it's preseason or not, or who is at fault, but this has been one of the sloppiest, ugliest, most embarrassing preseasons I have EVER seen out of a Bengals' team, and that's saying something.

[kingwilly]

<Preface>

Pre-season is used to prepare your team from a conditioning, execution and roster evaluation perspective.

Teams generally do not gameplan opponents as they would in the reg season.

Many teams who've won the SB have had terrible pre-seasons and cellar dwellars have gone undefeated.

That all being said and understood by the board...I continue.

I certainly don't want to put the all the blame on ML and the coaches for coming into Philly for what is touted as the the pre-season game most like a reg season game so obviously ill-prepared. But when the motto is "Do your Job" the blame has to be shared.

The game vs Phlly illustrated the clear distinction between a top-tier team and the Bengals at present. I do think this team has the potential to play straightup with a Philly/NE/Indy but not without some major adjustments and I see those adjustments coming not just from better exectuion but from the scheme/Coordinators.

Bratkowski absolutely must take a huge chunk of blame for this debacle. No Brat does not run, throw, he simply calls what must be run, thrown and caught. I think his issue begins with understanding what his opponent is doing. Yes, they may not "game-plan" pre-season match-ups but you can make adjustments. I thik he just does not recognize what the D is doing and modifying what plays need to be called. He plows ahead with poor calls for the situation or a predictable call that is easily defensed.

Here is the first series vs "Plain Vanilla Philly D"

1-10-CIN25 (14:45) C.Palmer pass to M.Schobel to CIN 30 for 5 yards (K.Adams).

2-5-CIN30 (13:54) R.Johnson right tackle to CIN 29 for -1 yards (J.Trotter).

3-6-CIN29 (13:26) PENALTY on CIN-S.Andrews, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CIN 29 - No Play.

3-11-CIN24 (13:07) (Shotgun) C.Palmer pass to C.Johnson to CIN 30 for 6 yards (B.Dawkins).

Beautiful. Hey Brat, Philly may be blitzing but a 6 yrd pass on 3rd and 11 DOES NOT CUT IT! That was the call before the penalty, NOW ITS 3rd and 11..Change the CALL!!!

Then this is a real gem of playcalling:

3-28-CIN19 (12:26) (Shotgun) C.Perry to CIN 13 for -6 yards (K.Adams).

My first thought was WTF? Then my second was "This should get BRAT" fired. Converting on 3rd and 20+ is low percentage no matter the call but give yourself a chance. The blitz was on so a draw is about the worst call to make. Bubble screen, quick slant to CJ/TJ, a shovel pass like vs Washington....

For Brat, it seems to be a lack of understanding the opponent D and poor use of his weapons in the wrong situations. Ex.

3-5-PHI28 (11:17) C.Palmer pass incomplete to C.Johnson (L.Sheppard).

Why would you take a strike in the end-zone when all you need is a 1st down? The game is still young. Chad just missed his second foot but get the first down, then take the strike. Am I crazy here? 3rd and 5 in Philly land, don't we have like 10 call for Perry here? Is that not his role? Get the first down, take the strike, keep moving the chains.

I think that Brat's playcalls truly hinder the ability of the O to execute. He has shifted all the pressure straight on the players instead of exploiting mis-matches and formations. Maybe we will see more/better audibles from Palmer. We all mock Peyton for changing EVeRY play at the line. He also threw for 1,000 TD's last year. That's a problem I'd lik to have.

On the D, Bres is still geting a sense of who he has and what works/doesn't. Note to Bres, your play from Safety has been woeful and using a cover two zone vs a combo like Donovan/TO is as bad a decision as I can think of. If TO takes the field, wouldn't you jam him up real bad for a few series? I think back to a reg season game vs the 49rs. Our CB's and S put Jerry Rice on the ground or ran him out of bounds for the whole first quarter, no catches . Sure the rules have changed but I saw NOONE even check him up. THis is the scheme forcing all the pressure on the player to purely out execte the opponent. I am perprlexed. Give yourselves a chance.

The Bengals ousted Frazier because there was friction between ML and LF, the D was regularly beat for big plays and steady improvement was not made. I wonder how long Bres will have to figure out that you give your players the best chance by schemeing them into position to prevent/make plays.

ML is the man at the top. He is on the hook for his decision for Brat and Bres to be on staff. The players must execute; Thrown, Run, Catch, Block, Tackle, et. but with poor schemes and horrific playcalling success will be limited and for that I will put the blame squarely on Brat, Bres and ML. Do your jobs, so the players can do thiers.

[Spain]

Shula, its has been ugly!

[BengalszoneBilly]

The starting defense hasn't been all that bad, except against Philly, so Bresnahan is doing fine. Bratkowski is a bad offensive coordinator, pure and simple. He is the primary problem with the offense. Marvin is not to blame for anything.

Excuse me, but when you're in charge, (i.e. Head Coach) blame is your middle name. That's the way it is in the rest of the world. Pro football is no different.