Memo to David Pollack

[Wraith]

Look, you have your money, that has been agreed upon now you are argueing over "language"? What ever your agent is telling you, the reality is this holdout is costing you far more than any gains you might possibily make.

1) I believe at this point your really pissing off your future employeer.

2) You are making a transition to a position you have never played before in organized football. You need these valuable practice reps.

3) The team is countng on you producing this year and every day you miss you are letting down your teammates.

4) Your losing your fans

Cut Condon and get your a$$ to camp.

[Kazkal]

"4) Your losing your fans"

He's not losing anyfans most our just fair weather and once he produces will be on his sack literally

[Bobcat Bengal]

"4) Your losing your fans"

He's not losing anyfans most our just fair weather and once  he produces will be on his sack literally

Why does everyone keep saying this?

Along the lines of, 'Oh, he'll sign and then he get 10 sacks and 100 tackles and everybody will forget about it.'

Its no sure-thing that he will set the league on fire. Cmon man, its the NFL. Just because he was an uber-over-achiever in college doesn't mean anything. And I also think you're overestimating how long it will take for him to get acclimated to playing a new spot. A lot of youse act like he pick it up over-night.

Hell muthaf**kin Yeah, some people are getting frustrated over it, especially when he comes across as this god-fearing, alturistic, hard-working-hard-nosed football player. I read this ESPN article on him last year, where he was on the cover with Leinart and this guy comes off with the religious fervor of Billy Graham and the rumbuctuousness and unbridled energy of Robin Williams. After reading it, it was hard not to like the guy, even though he needed to turn down the intensity a couple of notches. I remember thinking to myself, "It would be nice to see him in stripes." The guy shunned posing in Playboy for crying out loud. Damn, you're turning down a trip to the Mansion?

Wow.

So why does this whole fiasco screams hypocrisy all over it?

What are these agents trying to prove man?

[Kirkendall]

Good post Bobcat, or Tate, or Squirrel, whatever you are this season.

However, I can't blame the agent. Pollack has the right, and a mind of his own, to sign. Doesn't he?

[BengalBax]

"4) Your losing your fans"

He's not losing anyfans most our just fair weather and once  he produces will be on his sack literally

Why does everyone keep saying this?

Along the lines of, 'Oh, he'll sign and then he get 10 sacks and 100 tackles and everybody will forget about it.'

Its no sure-thing that he will set the league on fire. Cmon man, its the NFL. Just because he was an uber-over-achiever in college doesn't mean anything. And I also think you're overestimating how long it will take for him to get acclimated to playing a new spot. A lot of youse act like he pick it up over-night.

Hell muthaf**kin Yeah, some people are getting frustrated over it, especially when he comes across as this god-fearing, alturistic, hard-working-hard-nosed football player. I read this ESPN article on him last year, where he was on the cover with Leinart and this guy comes off with the religious fervor of Billy Graham and the rumbuctuousness and unbridled energy of Robin Williams. After reading it, it was hard not to like the guy, even though he needed to turn down the intensity a couple of notches. I remember thinking to myself, "It would be nice to see him in stripes." The guy shunned posing in Playboy for crying out loud. Damn, you're turning down a trip to the Mansion?

Wow.

So why does this whole fiasco screams hypocrisy all over it?

What are these agents trying to prove man?

Great post. Does it get any better than this??

[Semper_Fi_Dawg]

I'm probably going to take a hell of a lot of flack for this post, but here goes. I'm going to stand behind DP on this and here are the reasons.

1) He is "as advertised." A great player and a genuine God fearing man.

2) I havn't seen the contract and don't know anyone that has, so I honestly don't know if he's getting a square deal or not. Both sides have reasons for pulling our strings in the media.

3) I acknowledge the fact that I could be wrong on this (have been before), but I'm not going to bash him just because he has not signed the contract. Above all this is a business decision, and until you or I have been there I can't with all honesty say what I would do (not knowing the circumstances).

4) Above all, when he does get signed (and he will) he is going to be great. Maybe not this year, but next year........yeah. How realistic is it anyway to expect huge numbers out of a rookie learning a new position. The coaches to my knowledge never made any predictions for this year.....those were only made here by well meaning but maybe somewhat less informed fans.

5) If you like the way Odell played Sat. then you will get that and a little more from Davey. There was a reason he was drafted over Odell, and not to take away from Odell at all, but it wasn't just because of Odells past. Davey was a bit better with a better motor.

6) And last but not least, I am just as dissappointed that he has not made camp as anyone else, but I'm not going to bash a guy that has never been known for anything other than playing a great game and standing by his beliefs just as strongly.

[BengalszoneBilly]

What are these agents trying to prove man?

Not everyone may be fully aware of this, but these agents have ego's every bit as big as the players do. Sometimes bigger. MUCH bigger!

IMO it's mostly due to over-compensating for something else about themselves that isn't very big at all!

They do drive nice sportscars though!

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I'm probably going to take a hell of a lot of flack for this post, but here goes.  I'm going to stand behind DP on this and here are the reasons.

1)  He is "as advertised."  A great player and a genuine God fearing man.

2)  I havn't seen the contract and don't know anyone that has, so I honestly don't  know if he's getting a square deal or not.  Both sides have reasons for pulling our strings in the media.

3)  I acknowledge the fact that I could be wrong on this (have been before), but I'm not going to bash him just because he has not signed the contract.  Above all this is a business decision, and until you or I have been there I can't with all honesty say what I would do (not knowing the circumstances).

4)  Above all, when he does get signed (and he will) he is going to be great.  Maybe not this year, but next year........yeah.  How realistic is it anyway to expect huge numbers out of a rookie learning a new position.  The coaches to my knowledge never made any predictions for this year.....those were only made here by well meaning but maybe somewhat less informed fans.

5)  If you like the way Odell played Sat. then you will get that and a little more from Davey.  There was a reason he was drafted over Odell, and not to take away from Odell at all, but it wasn't just because of Odells past.  Davey was a bit better with a better motor.

6)  And last but not least, I am just as dissappointed that he has not made camp as anyone else, but I'm not going to bash a guy that has never been known for anything other than playing a great game and standing by his beliefs just as strongly.

I heard Kitna's starting up the new Pollack-Kitna ministries and is taking donations to help poor David get what he deserves. You can donate at the Bengals' pro shop.

I honestly wish it were like the old days where these rookie punks had to come in and prove themselves first and get through the hazing to prove they belong, THEN earn their dough.

The Bengals drafted him that high and named him a starter prior to the season for a reason - now he's just being petty as hell and messing with the team's plans.

If he comes in and does well, great, I'll be impressed and give him his props - but if he comes in, sucks up the place and takes a year to make any plays or pick things up - then I hope he gets boo'd like crazy.

At least Justin Smith came in and had an 8 sack rookie year and made up for it right away.

First round picks, with the money they get upfront, don't always have a year to relax and learn like a QB might. If they get injured that's one thing (Perry) but to be a 17th over-all pick and a tweener at that and expect to get paid more than he's worth, that's bush.

Get into camp Pollack and quit being an a$$.

[joshh967]

So does me disliking a player for a period of time because he is being greedy make me a fair weather fan?

[DontTakeAkili]

First of all, any true Bengal fan takes Pollack's holdout in stride. For a fan of a franchise that has (had?) been so bad for so long, a holdout is a minor blip on the screen. If Pollack signs and does well, then I will get my jersey and root for him. If he misses too much time and can't contribute, then oh well.

We are turning a corner as a franchise! One player can't make or break us any more. Pollack might not even be worth of starting. Johnson, Thurman, and Simmons sound good to me.

Quit worrying about Pollack. WHEN (not if) he gets signed, he will start helping this team win. But he isn't this team's savior. We don't need one. There's no sense in getting your panties in a bunch over a player. Palmer didnt play his rookie year. Perry didn't contribute in his. And we are still sailing toward the playoffs (hopefully).

Pollack might become a great player, but he isn't worth all this hand-wringing. Just wait for him to come into camp and start contributing. Until, just enjoy the TEAM that THE MAN has built.

[mtmeece]

I heard Kitna's starting up the new Pollack-Kitna ministries and is taking donations to help poor David get what he deserves. You can donate at the Bengals' pro shop.

Whats the point of binging Kitna in to this he is the real deal.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

I'm probably going to take a hell of a lot of flack for this post, but here goes. I'm going to stand behind DP on this and here are the reasons.

1) He is "as advertised." A great player and a genuine God fearing man.

2) I havn't seen the contract and don't know anyone that has, so I honestly don't know if he's getting a square deal or not. Both sides have reasons for pulling our strings in the media.

3) I acknowledge the fact that I could be wrong on this (have been before), but I'm not going to bash him just because he has not signed the contract. Above all this is a business decision, and until you or I have been there I can't with all honesty say what I would do (not knowing the circumstances).

4) Above all, when he does get signed (and he will) he is going to be great. Maybe not this year, but next year........yeah. How realistic is it anyway to expect huge numbers out of a rookie learning a new position. The coaches to my knowledge never made any predictions for this year.....those were only made here by well meaning but maybe somewhat less informed fans.

5) If you like the way Odell played Sat. then you will get that and a little more from Davey. There was a reason he was drafted over Odell, and not to take away from Odell at all, but it wasn't just because of Odells past. Davey was a bit better with a better motor.

6) And last but not least, I am just as dissappointed that he has not made camp as anyone else, but I'm not going to bash a guy that has never been known for anything other than playing a great game and standing by his beliefs just as strongly.

Thank you, I agree 100%

[Spain]

Im kinda hot headed, but he lost me as a fan. However he screwed his rookie year ansd probably wont start so the real ? is how much money did he lose!

[HoosierCat]

First round picks, with the money they get upfront, don't always have a year to relax and learn like a QB might. If they get injured that's one thing (Perry) but to be a 17th over-all pick and a tweener at that and expect to get paid more than he's worth, that's bush.

It doesn't appear that Pollack is asking for more than he's worth; in fact if reports are accurate his deal is actually shaping up to be potentially less than some after him might make if they hit all the bells and whistles.

As far as I can tell, it's that "money they get upfront" that's different this year. For reasons I don't quite understand, but I'm sure are related to the possible extension of the CBA and/or the no-cap year in 2007 that also might happen, signing bonuses are out of fashion this year. That's why this year all the reports are about "guaranteed money" vs. "signing bonus." Standard procedure this year is to give the guy salary plus a roster bonus (around $1 million in Pollack's slot), and then what would be the signing bonus comes next season in the form of an option or roster bonus in early 2006.

Pollack, understandably, wants that bonus guaranteed. Were this a "regular" year without all these CBA extension issues, he'd get his $5 million or how much ever signing bonus and that would be that; essentially, he's agreeing to defer the money for a year. I take it that other teams have been willing to guarantee that bonus money in return; the Bengals apparently want to add provisions that allow them to cut that bonus way down -- but still not lose Pollack's services -- in case of, at least, non-football injury, and possibly other conditions as well.

I can understand why he wants that, aside from the "everybody else got it, why not me" reasoning. For one thing, without a signing bonus, yes, Pollack could be cut next year with zero cap consequences. What if he just has the poor luck to have some drunk a-hole broadside his car and hurt him? Then he's in the same shoes as Webster and Warrick this season; given the Bengals' actions in those cases, is it such a stretch that they would want an injured Pollack to renegotiate? And poof, there goes his "signing" bonus.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

First round picks, with the money they get upfront, don't always have a year to relax and learn like a QB might.  If they get injured that's one thing (Perry) but to be a 17th over-all pick and a tweener at that and expect to get paid more than he's worth, that's bush.

It doesn't appear that Pollack is asking for more than he's worth; in fact if reports are accurate his deal is actually shaping up to be potentially less than some after him might make if they hit all the bells and whistles.

As far as I can tell, it's that "money they get upfront" that's different this year. For reasons I don't quite understand, but I'm sure are related to the possible extension of the CBA and/or the no-cap year in 2007 that also might happen, signing bonuses are out of fashion this year. That's why this year all the reports are about "guaranteed money" vs. "signing bonus." Standard procedure this year is to give the guy salary plus a roster bonus (around $1 million in Pollack's slot), and then what would be the signing bonus comes next season in the form of an option or roster bonus in early 2006.

Pollack, understandably, wants that bonus guaranteed. Were this a "regular" year without all these CBA extension issues, he'd get his $5 million or how much ever signing bonus and that would be that; essentially, he's agreeing to defer the money for a year. I take it that other teams have been willing to guarantee that bonus money in return; the Bengals apparently want to add provisions that allow them to cut that bonus way down -- but still not lose Pollack's services -- in case of, at least, non-football injury, and possibly other conditions as well.

I can understand why he wants that, aside from the "everybody else got it, why not me" reasoning. For one thing, without a signing bonus, yes, Pollack could be cut next year with zero cap consequences. What if he just has the poor luck to have some drunk a-hole broadside his car and hurt him? Then he's in the same shoes as Webster and Warrick this season; given the Bengals' actions in those cases, is it such a stretch that they would want an injured Pollack to renegotiate? And poof, there goes his "signing" bonus.

Yep and if that's the case then I don't know what to think.

Every day something new comes out it seems and I'll just reserve judgement I suppose.

Thanks for the info Joisey I haven't bothered to read much into the specifics on this - just want to see him in camp like everyone else, so I understand what you're saying after reading your post.

The timing of the first winning season possibly being upon us after 15 years just makes this situation even more frustrating than ever. Just get it done and worry about implications later if necessary. As Marvin said no one player should dictate the failure or success of the team, so cut someone in the off-season you'd rather not if it comes to that to make up for this.

In some ways, it's still the same old Bengals. And they will win in spite of their ownership eventually, not because of it.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

It doesn't appear that Pollack is asking for more than he's worth; in fact if reports are accurate his deal is actually shaping up to be potentially less than some after him might make if they hit all the bells and whistles.

As far as I can tell, it's that "money they get upfront" that's different this year. For reasons I don't quite understand, but I'm sure are related to the possible extension of the CBA and/or the no-cap year in 2007 that also might happen, signing bonuses are out of fashion this year.

Signing bonuses are affected by the end of the CBA because there's one less year over which to pro-rate them, meaning that they have more of a yearly cap hit. However, that was only a real issue for the top of the draft, since those were the guys who set up the slotting and were compared to last year's class. Guys at Pollack's level are slotted thanks to Alex Smith and friends, so what guys last year got is irrelevant - in fact, this draft is about 10-15% higher than last year.

So, in the end, I don't think Bengals fans can blame the CBA. It's down to Mike Brown and the agents. As far as I can tell, the agents are pushing for a little extra guaranteed money given the total value of the contract, as well as bristling at the "Carl Pickens" and "Kellen Winslow" clauses. I can see their point on the "Carl Pickens" thing, the language is a bit egregious, but I think every team has some version of the Winslow clause now.

For God's sake, get it done.

[HoosierCat]

Signing bonuses are affected by the end of the CBA because there's one less year over which to pro-rate them, meaning that they have more of a yearly cap hit. However, that was only a real issue for the top of the draft, since those were the guys who set up the slotting and were compared to last year's class. Guys at Pollack's level are slotted thanks to Alex Smith and friends, so what guys last year got is irrelevant - in fact, this draft is about 10-15% higher than last year.

Oh, yeah, I get the whole bit about there being one less year, but you are still getting guys down in the middle of the round, like Pollack (as well as Marcus Spears and others) who have these no-signing-bonus deals. And you are right, the usual amount of signing bonus at Pollack's level doesn't seem, at least to me, hard to stretch out over 5 years. But they are still doing this "option bonus in year 2" vs. a traditional signing bonus. And I just don't fully understand why.

[Semper_Fi_Dawg]

Thanks for the post Josey and DC. I'm learning a great deal. Keep it up.

[BengalPappaw]

I'm probably going to take a hell of a lot of flack for this post, but here goes.  I'm going to stand behind DP on this and here are the reasons.

1)  He is "as advertised."  A great player and a genuine God fearing man.

2)  I havn't seen the contract and don't know anyone that has, so I honestly don't  know if he's getting a square deal or not.  Both sides have reasons for pulling our strings in the media.

3)  I acknowledge the fact that I could be wrong on this (have been before), but I'm not going to bash him just because he has not signed the contract.  Above all this is a business decision, and until you or I have been there I can't with all honesty say what I would do (not knowing the circumstances).

4)  Above all, when he does get signed (and he will) he is going to be great.  Maybe not this year, but next year........yeah.  How realistic is it anyway to expect huge numbers out of a rookie learning a new position.  The coaches to my knowledge never made any predictions for this year.....those were only made here by well meaning but maybe somewhat less informed fans.

5)  If you like the way Odell played Sat. then you will get that and a little more from Davey.  There was a reason he was drafted over Odell, and not to take away from Odell at all, but it wasn't just because of Odells past.  Davey was a bit better with a better motor.

6)  And last but not least, I am just as dissappointed that he has not made camp as anyone else, but I'm not going to bash a guy that has never been known for anything other than playing a great game and standing by his beliefs just as strongly.

I agree with you.

I continue to support Pollack -- but really hope he signs soon!!

The sad part to me is that ML is beginning to sound just like Mikee -- too many breakfasts discussing football. I was hoping that ML would sway Mikee to understanding how important it is to get you players in camp.

Oh well -- Pollack will sign soon -- I hope!

[TJJackson]

from the Cinti Post, with the bolding being mine

"This is the second straight year that Condon has represented one of the two last first-rounders to sign. Tight end Ben Watson, who like Pollack played at the University of Georgia, held out for 18 days from New England's camp last year before signing with the Patriots as the 32nd and final pick of 2004's first round.

Condon didn't get to finalize Watson's deal. Watson fired Condon and replaced him with Pat Dye Jr. as the negotiations dragged."

Someone who has a line of communication to DP needs to let him know about this.....

[Bobcat Bengal]

3) I acknowledge the fact that I could be wrong on this (have been before), but I'm not going to bash him just because he has not signed the contract. Above all this is a business decision, and until you or I have been there I can't with all honesty say what I would do (not knowing the circumstances).

4) Above all, when he does get signed (and he will) he is going to be great. Maybe not this year, but next year........yeah. How realistic is it anyway to expect huge numbers out of a rookie learning a new position. The coaches to my knowledge never made any predictions for this year.....those were only made here by well meaning but maybe somewhat less informed fans.

5) If you like the way Odell played Sat. then you will get that and a little more from Davey. There was a reason he was drafted over Odell, and not to take away from Odell at all, but it wasn't just because of Odells past. Davey was a bit better with a better motor.

6) And last but not least, I am just as dissappointed that he has not made camp as anyone else, but I'm not going to bash a guy that has never been known for anything other than playing a great game and standing by his beliefs just as strongly.

Eh, I dont know about that one there.

I specifically remember the Bengals Brass/War Room having a heated discussion about whether or not to take Thurman in the first round, and Coach Hunley being 'sick' because Thurman wasn't gonna be around for their next pick.

I mean, if Pollack is THAT better of a player than Thurman, why isnt he playing his regular position?

And Semper Fi, I want Pollack to be great too, but you're parroting everything else that has been said. 'When he signs, he's gonna be great.' Again how do you know for sure? Do you realize how much one on one instruction and learning he has lost? Kevin Greene isn't at camp anymore, he was bought in specifically to help out Pollack.

And yeah, I will bash him for not taking the initiative to get the deal done.

There are some players in this draft, Alex Smith, specifically, that made it be known that they wanted NO holdouts. He obviously doesnt care too much about the starting job bestowed onto him, or he must think hes THAT good to just waltz into camp/practice and get the job.

Part of me wants him to play, but then again, part of me is like, you know what, since you want to play games, sit on the bench. I do remember him saying it would drive him crazy.