Two years into the project

[jjakq27]

Today is the two year anniversary (12/29/2002) of the implosion of Riverfront Stadium/Cinergy Field and the Bengals loss at Buffalo, 27-9, ending the worst season in Bengal history (2-14). That implosion is a symbolic event for me that represents a significant shift for the better in the direction of this franchise.

With that in mind, here are some interesting stats on Marvin’s tenure to date and some other Bengal facts:

(from the Enquirer, Monday Dec. 27, 2004)

A win over the Eagles Sunday would give Lewis a 16-16 career record. Only two Bengals coaches have ever had a record above .500 for their career. Bill Johnson (1976-1978) was 18-15, .545 and Forrest Gregg (1980-1983) was 34-27, .557.

The Bengals were 5-3 at home for the second consecutive year but are only 5-10 on the road.

Rudi needs 81 yards to break Corey Dillon’s record of 1,435 (2000).

Shayne Graham needs 7 points Sunday to equal Doug Pelfrey’s season record of 121 points (1994).

Sunday’s win was the third in a row this season against the NFC (Dallas, Washington, NY Giants) and have won 5 in a row at home vs. the NFC back to 2002.

The Bengals won for only the third time in sixteen games under Lewis in which they had a minus turnover differential (-1).

Sunday was the teams 11th consecutive sellout and the first sold out season since 1992.

With the expected sellout at Philadelphia, the Bengals will join some pretty exclusive company Sunday. The Bengals had over 500,000 in home attendance and will have over 600,000 in road attendance to put them over 1.1 million for the season. There were only a handful of teams that made that level last year.

[ckj414]

Good post, and I totally agree that the Bengals appear to be on the rise. Granted they might have another 8-8 record this season, but it was accomplished under far more difficult circumstances than the prior year. It was a harder schedule, more injuries, and I don't doubt that there are more than a few teams in the league that wouldn't have done nearly as well under the same circumstances. I'll be very dissapointed if the Bengals don't make the playoffs next season...

[San Antonio Bengal]

And don't forget having a rookie QB at the helm. Even with the injuries, the rookies playing, and a hard schedule, we still have the opportunity for a break even schedule. At the start of the season, I thought 8 - 8 was the best that this team could go. And that was without knowing that half our team would be on IR. Really, I'm amazed they've done as well as they have considering all that happened (injuries and the like, rooks playing) during the season.

Next season will be the season to see this team make it over the hump and into the playoffs. Another Marvin Lewis draft, an easier schedule, and a QB with a little experience will really help our chances. Who Dey! :player:

[redsfan2]

And don't forget having a rookie QB at the helm.  Even with the injuries, the rookies playing, and a hard schedule, we still have the opportunity for a break even schedule.  At the start of the season, I thought 8 - 8 was the best that this team could go.  And that was without knowing that half our team would be on IR.  Really, I'm amazed they've done as well as they have considering all that happened (injuries and the like, rooks playing) during the season.

Next season will be the season to see this team make it over the hump and into the playoffs.  Another Marvin Lewis draft, an easier schedule, and a QB with a little experience will really help our chances.  Who Dey!  :player:

The ONLY thing that worries me on both sides of the ball is consistency.

Giving up the big play to the opponents and failing to make the big play when we needed to. Defense played well at times but was routinely victimized by the big play. Mularkey came out and said it in his press conference. " Sooner or later they'll make a mistake. They have been doing it all year". Other teams know it and prep for us that way.

First play of the game vs Buffalo ... CJ jumps early. Week before that it was 5 times in the game by 5 different guys. We have some needs on defense and on offense, but all the players in the world aren't going to make a difference if we keep shooting ourselves in the foot .... and that's coaching.

Year 1 of Lewis' tenure we had a massacre of the roster .... or an enema if you prefer .... either is appropriate ..... and was justified. = New players and new coach. Year 2 Weeded out the rest of the garbage and injuries means we start rookies and free agents = new players playing together or the first time.

I expect to see a difference next year because we won't have any of those to contend with. IF we don't ........ and it'll show up in the first couple of games .... I'm going to be terribly concerned.

[jjakq27]

Year 1 of Lewis' tenure we had a massacre of the roster .... or an enema if you prefer .... either is appropriate ..... and was justified. = New players and new coach. Year 2 Weeded out the rest of the garbage and injuries means we start rookies and free agents = new players playing together or the first time.

There was a clip in the paper a few weeks back about how there are only 10 Bengal draft picks left from the pre-Marvin era. You are correct that he has purged the roster (for the better).

Willie Anderson-1996

Brian Simmons-1998

Peter Warrick-2000

Brad St. Louis-2000

Justin Smith-2001

Chad Johnson-2001

TJ Houshmandzadeh-2001

Rudi Johnson-2001

Levi Jones-2002

Matt Schoebel-2002

[HoosierCat]

Year 1 of Lewis' tenure we had a massacre of the roster .... or an enema if you prefer .... either is appropriate ..... and was justified. = New players and new coach. Year 2 Weeded out the rest of the garbage and injuries means we start rookies and free agents = new players playing together or the first time.

There was a clip in the paper a few weeks back about how there are only 10 Bengal draft picks left from the pre-Marvin era. You are correct that he has purged the roster (for the better).

Willie Anderson-1996

Brian Simmons-1998

Peter Warrick-2000

Brad St. Louis-2000

Justin Smith-2001

Chad Johnson-2001

TJ Houshmandzadeh-2001

Rudi Johnson-2001

Levi Jones-2002

Matt Schoebel-2002

What's even more notable are that just 2 are defensive players (Simmons and Smith). That's where I believe the consistency issues redsfan mentioned come in. Between the heavy turnover and this year's rash of injuries -- even among those not on IR are many who have missed multiple games, including O'Neal, Powell, Clemons, Herring, and Beckett -- the D has never really had a chance to gell.

What is remarkable, at least to me, is that despite that, it hasn't fallen apart. Right now, the Bengals are on course to allow 386 points for the year (they're at 362 allowed now and are averaging about 24 a game). This would be almost exactly what they allowed last year, 384. And that's in a year when scoring league-wide is up thanks to the new limits on contact by CBs.

What the D really needs IMHO is for a playmaker and leader to emerge or be signed. Preferably among the front seven (DE, DT or LB). I think the D is getting more technically proficient and is making fewer big mistakes, but it doesn't seem to have a heart. It needs a Ray Lewis or Michael Strahan-type guy who can tie it all together on the field.

[redsfan2]

Year 1 of Lewis' tenure we had a massacre of the roster .... or an enema if you prefer .... either is appropriate ..... and was justified. = New players and new coach. Year 2 Weeded out the rest of the garbage and injuries means we start rookies and free agents = new players playing together or the first time.

There was a clip in the paper a few weeks back about how there are only 10 Bengal draft picks left from the pre-Marvin era. You are correct that he has purged the roster (for the better).

Willie Anderson-1996

Brian Simmons-1998

Peter Warrick-2000

Brad St. Louis-2000

Justin Smith-2001

Chad Johnson-2001

TJ Houshmandzadeh-2001

Rudi Johnson-2001

Levi Jones-2002

Matt Schoebel-2002

What's even more notable are that just 2 are defensive players (Simmons and Smith). That's where I believe the consistency issues redsfan mentioned come in. Between the heavy turnover and this year's rash of injuries -- even among those not on IR are many who have missed multiple games, including O'Neal, Powell, Clemons, Herring, and Beckett -- the D has never really had a chance to gell.

What is remarkable, at least to me, is that despite that, it hasn't fallen apart. Right now, the Bengals are on course to allow 386 points for the year (they're at 362 allowed now and are averaging about 24 a game). This would be almost exactly what they allowed last year, 384. And that's in a year when scoring league-wide is up thanks to the new limits on contact by CBs.

What the D really needs IMHO is for a playmaker and leader to emerge or be signed. Preferably among the front seven (DE, DT or LB). I think the D is getting more technically proficient and is making fewer big mistakes, but it doesn't seem to have a heart. It needs a Ray Lewis or Michael Strahan-type guy who can tie it all together on the field.

Both of you guys hit it right on the head.

Take that list, and there are 2 names that may or may not survive this year. I like Simmons ... and every year you know its going to be the one in which he breaks out ... and misses it by thismuch. Same with Schoebel imho of course, so you can deduct one more from each side of the ball.

Other Big question that Joisey referred to was "needs ". No doubt that we need a playmaker and as Big Willie said a game changer. ....... @ DT is it Askew ???? and he's just not had a chance to show it ????? @ linebacker .......... how about Abdullah ????? and / or Webster ?????????

See .... thing is that we might already have these guys and don't know it. Now we're going to draft guys I know ..... and we'll likely ( I hope ) plug a few holes with fa's, but there you are back to plugging new guys into the system and the resulting lack of continuity / consistency.

I'm encouraged that there are fewer holes to plug ......... but ........ I'm concerned about the uncertainty surrounding several players .... and downright dismayed at the number of mental errors that are being committed by the team as a whole this late in the season.

[jjakq27]

I'm concerned about the uncertainty surrounding several players .... and downright dismayed at the number of mental errors that are being committed by the team as a whole this late in the season.

"False start on the offense.....number *&%@.....five yard penalty.....repeat first down........"

[HoosierCat]

I'm concerned about the uncertainty surrounding several players .... and downright dismayed at the number of mental errors that are being committed by the team as a whole this late in the season.

"False start on the offense.....number *&%@.....five yard penalty.....repeat first down........"

Yeah, the o-line has been disappointing this season, especially after doing so well last year. That's another one you can chalk up to injuries and personnel changes. I don't think it was until the first Cleveland game that we actually had all the "official" starters (Willie, Bobby, Rich, Eric & Levi) in at the same time, and now of course we're back to Jerry Fontenot. So basically we've only had our starting o-line together and playing for about half the season. Add to that that some of the guys playing are playing hurt and so not practicing during the week. I don't think Willie's practiced all year! That makes it tough to get your timing down and for the line as a whole to mesh. And finally we have multiple QBs. At the start of the season the line had to adjust to Palmer, they finally looked like they were getting it, Palmer gets hurt, now they have to readjust to Kit (and we saw how they struggled against the Bills).

Like I've said elsewhere, before the season started all the "experts" pegged it at about 8-8, and that was assuming they stayed relatively healthy. That they've still managed to get to that level with so many injuries is a testament to the quality of our younger players, and the mental resiliency Marvin Lewis and his staff have managed to build.

[AGrizzlyBaer]

this was off lance mcalisters blog

If you caught Wednesday's Bengals show you may have heard the debate between Trumpy and myself about how much Marvin is in the loop on the Bengals salary cap and other financial aspects of the team. Trumpy fears and insists that Marvin is kept in the dark and does not have access to salary cap numbers, how much room the Bengals have, etc. I insist that can't possibly be true, that Marvin seems to be too structured and prepared in what he does, to not be in the loop.

I asked Dave Lapham today.....here is what he said:

"While I have not asked Marvin specifically, and this is just my opinion.......I believe Marvin has too much of a handle on facts and figures to not be in the loop. Every morning he meets with Mike. It's a daily ritual. I get the feeling Marvin is in the loop on everything. I'd be surprised if he were kept in the dark."-Dave Lapham

From Chick Ludwig:

Lance: Marvin isn't just in the loop; he's at the heart of it. Trumpy is TOTALLY WRONG. Marvin told us at the Combine his first season that management (mike, katie & troy) lean on him to put a value on certain free agents...when Lo Neal wanted a million, marvin said he's not worth it and they let him walk. Marvin tells the folks upstairs who he wants, and they crunch the numbers and help him get them. Free agents have come here for 2 reasons. They're making a good buck, and they get to play for Marvin..."Plain, Flat & Simple." Chick

thought it was interesting and i think that shows a diffrence from the power coachs had in the past and now

[membengal]

this was off lance mcalisters blog

If you caught Wednesday's Bengals show you may have heard the debate between Trumpy and myself about how much Marvin is in the loop on the Bengals salary cap and other financial aspects of the team. Trumpy fears and insists that Marvin is kept in the dark and does not have access to salary cap numbers, how much room the Bengals have, etc. I insist that can't possibly be true, that Marvin seems to be too structured and prepared in what he does, to not be in the loop.

I asked Dave Lapham today.....here is what he said:

"While I have not asked Marvin specifically, and this is just my opinion.......I believe Marvin has too much of a handle on facts and figures to not be in the loop. Every morning he meets with Mike. It's a daily ritual. I get the feeling Marvin is in the loop on everything. I'd be surprised if he were kept in the dark."-Dave Lapham

From Chick Ludwig:

Lance: Marvin isn't just in the loop; he's at the heart of it. Trumpy is TOTALLY WRONG. Marvin told us at the Combine his first season that management (mike, katie & troy) lean on him to put a value on certain free agents...when Lo Neal wanted a million, marvin said he's not worth it and they let him walk. Marvin tells the folks upstairs who he wants, and they crunch the numbers and help him get them. Free agents have come here for 2 reasons. They're making a good buck, and they get to play for Marvin..."Plain, Flat & Simple." Chick

thought it was interesting and i think that shows a diffrence from the power coachs had in the past and now

Thanks for that post grizzly.

I pulled up 1360 on the net yesterday and Trumpy made me so mad I still cannot see straight.

I simply cannot believe that, as hands on as ML is on everything else, he is somehow in the dark on something as crucial to this team's success as its cap number. Trumpy so thoroughly hates Mike Brown (and Katie) that he has lost all credibility when it comes to such things.

Nice to hear that Ludwig is scoffing at it. Wish I had pulled 1360 back up, but was still so mad from yesterday that I didn't want to.

[redsfan2]

this was off lance mcalisters blog

If you caught Wednesday's Bengals show you may have heard the debate between Trumpy and myself about how much Marvin is in the loop on the Bengals salary cap and other financial aspects of the team. Trumpy fears and insists that Marvin is kept in the dark and does not have access to salary cap numbers, how much room the Bengals have, etc. I insist that can't possibly be true, that Marvin seems to be too structured and prepared in what he does, to not be in the loop.

I asked Dave Lapham today.....here is what he said:

"While I have not asked Marvin specifically, and this is just my opinion.......I believe Marvin has too much of a handle on facts and figures to not be in the loop. Every morning he meets with Mike. It's a daily ritual. I get the feeling Marvin is in the loop on everything. I'd be surprised if he were kept in the dark."-Dave Lapham

From Chick Ludwig:

Lance: Marvin isn't just in the loop; he's at the heart of it. Trumpy is TOTALLY WRONG. Marvin told us at the Combine his first season that management (mike, katie & troy) lean on him to put a value on certain free agents...when Lo Neal wanted a million, marvin said he's not worth it and they let him walk. Marvin tells the folks upstairs who he wants, and they crunch the numbers and help him get them. Free agents have come here for 2 reasons. They're making a good buck, and they get to play for Marvin..."Plain, Flat & Simple." Chick

thought it was interesting and i think that shows a diffrence from the power coachs had in the past and now

Thanks for that post grizzly.

I pulled up 1360 on the net yesterday and Trumpy made me so mad I still cannot see straight.

I simply cannot believe that, as hands on as ML is on everything else, he is somehow in the dark on something as crucial to this team's success as its cap number. Trumpy so thoroughly hates Mike Brown (and Katie) that he has lost all credibility when it comes to such things.

Nice to hear that Ludwig is scoffing at it. Wish I had pulled 1360 back up, but was still so mad from yesterday that I didn't want to.

Trump was one of my favorite players ...... and now he chaps my ass just about every time he opens his mouth. The only time I've heard him say anything positive about the Bengals is when they hired Lewis. .... and he managed to work a snide remark into that one too.

Unfortunately I've had to endure listening to him do several games for the Bengals... Comments that begin " The Bengals are SO BAd at this point that .... blah blah ... another was " The Bengals .... every time you try to love 'em they break your heart. " Gee Trump .... thanks for the boost there buddy. Now I don't want him to be a homer, but the -------- is downright venomous .. a close second to Irvin.

My personal favorite Trumpism was during a game when he was being critical of the play call and astutely noted .. " See ? Because of that last play, They've put themselves in a position where Now they either have to run the ball or throw it." No s**t ??? What a grasp of the situation.

[jjakq27]

More Marvin data:

If the Bengals win today they will go 16-16 in Lewis' first two seasons. The previous two coaches won 16 games in four seasons (1999-2002).

1999 Coslet 4-12

2000 Coslet/LeBeau 4-12

2001 Le Beau 6-10

2002 Le Beau 2-14

Thanks Marvin and all for bringing us out of the basement of the NFL!

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I'm not happy with mediocrity and .500 records, but I recognize the improvement for what it is. They could hardly get any worse.

[jjakq27]

First back-to-back .500 or better seasons since 1989-1990 (8-8, 9-7).

[MoellerWhoDey]

Marvin has this team on the up and up :player:

[BengalszoneBilly]

Marvin has this team on the up and up :player:

The CBS studio team even acknowleged this on the air during the Indy/Broncos game.

You know you've come from a really bad place to be publicly commended for finishing 8-8 for two years in a row, eh?

[MoellerWhoDey]

You know you've come from a really bad place to be publicly commended for finishing 8-8 for two years in a row, eh?

[jditty47]

the oline did fine this year. s**t they got even RUDI the bengals record this season. to get that they HAD to have a decent year at the least.

oh and the d is our problem, our DLine is the worst in football vs the run, even worse than the colts.

[Beaker]

I dont think alot of people see the big picture when they look at our 8-8 and say mediocrity. We started a "rookie" QB, we played a very tough schedule (4 of the 6 AFC playoff teams, and 9 defenses ranked in the top 10 at the time), and we had 18 players on IR. To me that makes this yrs 8-8 way more acceptable than last yrs. We saw improvement in every area of the team this yr. We are definitely headed in the right direction. I am excited to see what this offseason brings. But I fear this is going to feel like the longest offseason ever. I cant wait till the first minicamp.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I dont think alot of people see the big picture when they look at our 8-8 and say mediocrity. We started a "rookie" QB, we played a very tough schedule (4 of the 6 AFC playoff teams, and 9 defenses ranked in the top 10 at the time), and we had 18 players on IR. To me that makes this yrs 8-8 way more acceptable than last yrs.

A great perspective!

[TubThumper]

I dont think alot of people see the big picture when they look at our 8-8 and say mediocrity. We started a "rookie" QB, we played a very tough schedule (4 of the 6 AFC playoff teams, and 9 defenses ranked in the top 10 at the time), and we had 18 players on IR. To me that makes this yrs 8-8 way more acceptable than last yrs.

A great perspective!

Also, nobody really beat the Bengals as much as they beat themselves, and the mistakes they made are correctable and had a lot to do with adjusting to the 1st-year starting quarterback and 18 players on the IR situations. The Bengals won 5 of their last 8 games - 2 in a row at the end of the season, set offensive production records despite all the adjusting they had to do, and consistently made big plays on offense and defense. They played very competitively with the best teams in the league, showing that no matchups are really too big for them.

My major disappointment was the lack of killer instinct displayed in the Buffalo game. They gave that game away at a critical point in the season, and that has to be addressed. They may not need to change a lot of the players, but they do need to do a little more changing of the personality of the team. The veteran leadership has to step up and set a better tone for preparation, attention to detail, and a sense of urgency in these situations. If there aren't enough vets with the fire to do that in house, the staff needs to make a key replacement or two to show that this kind of leadership is also an expected part of the job.

The Buffalo melt-down doesn't happen to good teams like the Steelers. The attributes that prevent it from happening also provide the kind of consistency that prevents those teams from being as dependent on one game as the Bengals were in that case. The Bengals are on the verge of being a great team, but they need some guys to set a higher standard of professionalism to move from being a respectable, middle-of-the-pack spoiler to being an elite team. Nevertheless, at this stage of the development process, achieving respectable, middle-of-the-pack spoiler status over a two year period is a sign of growing excellence.

[jjakq27]

With all of the end-of-season discussions, we forgot to mention the excorcism of another Bengal-demon in the Philadelphia game, Jeff Blake. He was 3-0 against us since he left the Bengals and always seemed to elevate his teammates and his play during those games. Remember the Arizona game in '03? How appropriate was it for his first pass to be intercepted and returned for a touchdown?

The Bengals were able to reverse a lot of bad trends this season which is something to build on for the future. As the older guys get replaced, the core group of guys will be from the draft classes of the two 8-8 seasons.

PS: I would have loved to have beaten Jeff Fisher this year too. Unfortunately with the schedule rotation, he may not be the coach there when we play them again.

[jjakq27]

With all of the end-of-season discussions, we forgot to mention the excorcism of another Bengal-demon in the Philadelphia game, Jeff Blake. He was 3-0 against us since he left the Bengals and always seemed to elevate his teammates and his play during those games. Remember the Arizona game in '03? How appropriate was it for his first pass to be intercepted and returned for a touchdown?

The Bengals were able to reverse a lot of bad trends this season which is something to build on for the future. As the older guys get replaced, the core group of guys will be from the draft classes of the two 8-8 seasons.

PS: I would have loved to have beaten Jeff Fisher this year too. Unfortunately with the schedule rotation, he may not be the coach there when we play them again.

I stand corrected. We play the Titans at Nashville next year. So we can go and cross him off the list as well.