Play calling

[Bengalsfan24]

I really hope Zac Taylor is watching the Rams /Buffalo game so he can execute a screen pass and use play action...so 1 dimensional...horrible 

[Bengalsfan24]

Under center creates more play action and run the football!! Chase B has been ineffective because there's no threat...top tier teams can go under center with the threat of a run game which is totally obsolete in the bengals offense....apparently they can't win up front. When it becomes 1 dimensional it becomes easy to defend...long time fan just highly disappointed in the play calling and lack of the run game...

[HoosierCat]

There was a reason I said earlier this year that they needed to consider Jeremiah Love if he slipped to 10 in the draft. Of course, they traded that pick for Dex and the rest of the RB class was poor, so here we are.

[ArmyBengal]

Well, since it's the bye week, no harm in talking draft.
If the conversation surrounds making the running game a priority, Jaden Baugh appears to be the RB1 for the 27 draft.
Big kid at 6'1, 230lbs, massive stiff arm, great pass catcher, could be a better blocker but not bad.
4.4-4.5 speed so not elite homerun guy like a Gibbs with the Lions, but elite production which I would want.

Am I saying we need to take a RB in the 1st?  No, but I could think of worse ways to travel with that pick.
The Bengals would need to commit to the run game and play calling to support it.  I don't see that at this point.

I don't think there is a "generational" type runner in this RB class however.

[HoosierCat]

Thanks, I’ll take a look at Baugh.

Re playcalling, I hear you but somehow plenty of other teams find ways to use a franchise QB and a stud RB effectively at the same time. Just look at Baltimore. So it’s not impossible. That said, I would not be surprised if such a mix were beyond Zac Taylor’s abilities.

[ArmyBengal]

I was checking out the run blocking grade for the o-line and saw an interesting analysis into what we see.

If you view it through the lens of ESPN Analytics, they rank #1 in run block win rate.
This is because it measures how often the o-linemen win their individual blocks for at least 2.5 seconds.
However, since teams are so focused on the passing attack, the o-linemen have a mathematical advantage.

Then again, if you view it through the lens of PFF and film review, they rank near the bottom around #26.
This is because while the line is technically "winning" blocks on paper, they struggle to create physical push, run lanes, or consistently climb to the second level and take on linebackers.  Mims is one of the best pass blocking RT's in the league.  You might say he's been "elite" there, but he's near the bottom in run blocking.  Why?

Well, it's because of play calling and the fact he's being asked to protect depth rather than drive defenders backward.  The disconnect explains why the team has the "potential" to block well, but ultimately plays in such a pass-heavy scheme that it leaves Brown to take contact right at the line of scrimmage.

I'm not sure playing under center is going to matter than much if they aren't committed to the craft.
To me it almost comes across like they want to fool teams that they are going to run more.  Like being too cute again.
The under center approach only works if they work the run game in more consistently. 

They don't...

[ArmyBengal]

You can also look at this through the eyes of the RPO (run pass option).
The Bengals rank 2nd in the league in how often they have called an RPO through the first 5 weeks.

When considering what I commented before about the o-linemen being asked to protect depth and space as opposed to driving players backwards, it also makes sense that the run game could suffer with that approach.  If nearly 20% of the time the o-line has to consider both run and pass blocking depending on what option Burrow decides, that can be very problematic in establishing a consistent run game.

I haven't seen anything about that being a huge impact, but seeing as how they are running it THAT much, it wouldn't surprise me either.
I think they have the talent in place to impose their will without all the misdirection and gimmicks.
If you are going to throw the ball, pass block and throw that shit.
If you are going to run the ball, commit to it and block accordingly.

Maybe I'm simplifying things a bit, but this coaching staff has a bad habit of trying to confuse the defense they face and be too cute.
You have a top 5 QB in the league, arguably the best WR duo in the league and the best o-line they've had in some time.
Go be the bully and impose your will.  Stop trying to be so fucking cute.  That's what puppies are for.

[HoosierCat]

33 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said:

I think they have the talent in place to impose their will without all the misdirection and gimmicks.
If you are going to throw the ball, pass block and throw that shit.
If you are going to run the ball, commit to it and block accordingly.

Maybe I'm simplifying things a bit, but this coaching staff has a bad habit of trying to confuse the defense they face and be too cute.

Yup. We used to talk about them being a “finesse” team. I don’t think that’s the case now but there’s definitely too much “finesse coaching” going on.

[COB]

8 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

would not be surprised if such a mix were beyond Zac Taylor’s abilities.

Zac should be the manager of the Home & Garden section at a Lowe’s somewhere.  He should point out the correct aisle when people come in looking for glue traps to deal with a mouse problem in their attic.  

[HoosierCat]

So I read this…

https://www.nbcsports.com/fantasy/football/player-news/2026-10-13/bengals-oc-pitcher-well-continually-assess-rb 

I can’t help thinking, hey, didn’t we dump Mixon (and Perine) a couple years ago because their style of play wasn’t right for the offense, but Brown’s was? And now we may give Perine more touches because Brown’s may not be a fit anymore?

[ArmyBengal]

You would think the Bengals would want the guy commenting about things of this nature to be the one calling plays for those players.

Also, when considering what I posted earlier in this thread about why the run game has been lacking, does it even matter?

Wrong focus, wrong person, and will probably equate to the wrong outcome.

See you next week in Baltimore...

[COB]

1 hour ago, HoosierCat said:

So I read this…

https://www.nbcsports.com/fantasy/football/player-news/2026-10-13/bengals-oc-pitcher-well-continually-assess-rb 

I can’t help thinking, hey, didn’t we dump Mixon (and Perine) a couple years ago because their style of play wasn’t right for the offense, but Brown’s was? And now we may give Perine more touches because Brown’s may not be a fit anymore?

Ok I read that blurb.  2 points:

1. It is charitable of Pitcher to say the scheme fits Perine better than Brown.  Brown does not currently have the burst he had last year, that’s obvious.  His first step used to be amazing, dude was at full speed so fast that he’d blast through a little space and get five yards when there didn’t look like there was anything there.  This year his runs look quite pedestrian, seems way easier to tackle.  
 

2.  Here is a little quote from that Pitcher blurb:

“The Bengals spent a lot of time this offseason working on an under center run game to get Brown more explosives, “

Attention NFL Blabbing Industry:  you do not have the authority to make “explosives” a noun in the manner in which you are misusing it.  Explosive plays are not “explosives.”  I am 64 years old and the English language cannot change or evolve from here on out.  In fact, nothing can change from here on out, this world and everything in it must immediately freeze in place so I can spend the next 20 years falling asleep on my couch, secure in the familiarity and sameness that a static, unchanging, world provides.  Then, if I’m startled awake (after drooling on said couch in my sleep) by a political ad that assures me the local farmer we sent to the House of Representatives will not only freeze everything in place, he’ll somehow transport us back to 1955 and stop all these public schools from sex changing everyone’s kids, I can drift off back to sleep, knowing full well that the nfl media ecosystem does not have the power to make up new words.  As I slide under sleep’s dark and silent gate, I see a collie running across a field of wildflowers.  Look, his family (nuclear, white) threw a stick for him!  Ahhhhhh….

[ArmyBengal]

I know people aren't going to want to hear this, but I still think the problem has less to do with the RB's and more with the o-line.

Yes, they spent a lot of time working under center during the offseason.  We heard about it non-stop.
Move forward into the start of the season and they have ran 69 plays under center out of 322 offensive plays in total through week 5.
That's a little better than 21% of the plays.  That is good enough for the 3rd fewest amount of plays under center in the league.

Now, when they do run plays under center the execute running plays 71% of the time or nearly 3 out of every 4 times.
That in and of itself is a pretty big tell if the defense is guessing which play the offense is going to run.

How does this relate to the o-line when the Bengals are hoping this produces more explosive plays?  (Better COB?)
The o-line has produced inconsistent results and has not at all looked explosive on their end when blocking.
Running under center has netted them 3.3 YPC as opposed to 4.0 YPC out of the shotgun.
The success rate of those runs is horrible.  

I might be over thinking it's an individual thing versus scheming, but something is amiss with this approach.
If they can't get it figured out, just run the offense out of the shotgun more than you already do.
It doesn't sound like they have a good bead on how to execute what they are thinking up in their heads.

If they think Perine is the answer to this problem, fine.  I won't be holding my breath waiting for those results.

[HoosierCat]

1 hour ago, ArmyBengal said:

You would think the Bengals would want the guy commenting about things of this nature to be the one calling plays for those players.

Also, when considering what I posted earlier in this thread about why the run game has been lacking, does it even matter?

Wrong focus, wrong person, and will probably equate to the wrong outcome.

See you next week in Baltimore...

“Wrong focus, wrong person, wrong outcome” is a pretty accurate summation of the franchise as a whole.

[HoosierCat]

I would say the run game issues have to do with both the line and the backs.

The oline has been built with pass protection as its first, second and third priority. It’s also clearly being instructed to treat every play, regardless of the call, like Joe has the ball. Bottom line, run blocking is just not a priority.  And I get that instinct given how (relatively speaking) fragile Burrow has been. Gotta protect The Franchise.

At the same time, my eyes are seeing the same thing COB’s are. I don’t think Perine is magic or anything, but he’s been running north-south with decisiveness. Brown by contrast looks slow and indecisive when running behind the line (he looks much better as a receiver in space). Based on what they’ve done in the past I suspect that the bengals will move in the direction of using the short passing game as a substitute for the run, moving Brown around to catch and run while using Perine more traditionally. But that’s just a guess.

[ArmyBengal]

Here's my thing regarding Perine vs Brown.

I'm not buying that Perine is faster than Brown.  More decisive at this point?  Probably, but not faster.
Why does this matter?  Because the under center option is built for the more explosive player.
(Note to COB, Brown is not going to explode on the field Sunday)

Since Perine has been more decisive, you can look at the workload in that Perine has already almost drawn even with Brown.
However, even with that being the case, when they run under center looks, Brown damn near gets all of the carries.
If they want to change that up and use Perine in those under center looks, I'm not sure it will bear fruit or at least have my doubts.

Again, I think the Bengals are making things too predictable for opposing defenses when they run from that formation 75% of the time.
I also think Perine is a superior pass blocker, so why not just limit under center further or at least change up the pass run ratio?
If they want to continue running RPO, why not have both Perine and Brown in the backfield?
They could mix up the workload AND have an added pass blocker in simultaneously.

Then again, maybe I need to give up trying to make sense of this travesty of an offensive approach and go work at Home Depot?
I'm sure there is someone I could assist with the spray snow for Christmas Trees and windows.  Maybe unclogging hair from drains?

[HoosierCat]

Dehner takes a crack at unraveling the run game here:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7685345/2026/10/13/bengals-run-game-chase-brown-samaje-perine/

Specific to the Dolphins game:

Quote

Cincinnati shifted to a higher rate of shotgun, downhill runs designed to create efficiency, but not necessarily explosives. They also fit into the skills of Samaje Perine.

The 5-11, 240-pound battering ram’s more powerful running style resulted in 4.9 yards per carry on 14 attempts. His 57.1 percent success rate tied for the most of any back in the NFL last week.

Perine rushed one more time than he had in the first four games of the season combined and one more than Chase Brown got Sunday. Brown’s 3.0 yards per carry were a stark difference against Perine’s consistency.

….

The shift to the shotgun gap scheme that favors Perine also meant a lean away from the under-center run game the Bengals worked on throughout the offseason, partially to create more explosives for Brown. He was positioned to be the workhorse back in this offense again and unleash his dynamic burst to pile up explosive runs.

Yet, through five weeks, there have been 182 runs of at least 14 yards in the NFL. The Bengals are the only team without one.

I think this merges well with Army’s observation that they run so much out of under center that it’s become a tell. Later in the piece Dehner basically predicts that they will do what they did in 2022, which is to dump the under center stuff, run out of shotgun, and use Brown as a check down/short passing option.

[ArmyBengal]

I don't disagree with dumping the under center stuff, because I simply think Burrow prefers it and it probably works better when running an RPO look to things.  However, I don't thinking dumping it as a whole is what's needed.  Just mix it up more.  Get the run pass ratio closer to a 50/50 mix and it should get closer to what they were thinking when implementing the look.

It kind of surprises me that they put so much effort into the under center looks and then turned it into a tell for the offense.
When coupling that with an o-line that has to consider pass blocking damn near every snap and the outcome shouldn't be shocking.

[Coltsguy451]

10 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

 

Since Perine has been more decisive, you can look at the workload in that Perine has already almost drawn even with Brown.
However, even with that being the case, when they run under center looks, Brown damn near gets all of the carries.
If they want to change that up and use Perine in those under center looks, I'm not sure it will bear fruit or at least have my doubts.

Two good RBs could be under center 

Pro Form or I Form...need a good fullback

Think Gesicki could fill that role

Sorry, I'm just champing that dude for some reason, I just like that underrated TE

[HoosierCat]

TE Eric All is effectively a FB. Gesicki can’t block to save his life. 

[ArmyBengal]

I don't really care "what" they do, I care "how" they do it.

As I mentioned previously, I don't think using Perine in an under center look is going to get them what they are looking for.  Them not getting it from Brown misses the two key points I mentioned.  The o-line is in perpetual pass block mode every snap and they have not been good at run blocking.  Couple that with running while under center 75% of the time and it's not hard to figure out why they aren't getting explosive plays.

[volcom69]

Same line as last season, and it was a little bit later in the season, but Zac fixed the run game to go from one of the worst up to like 4th in the league. I was so excited for that again and they came out and sucked. Hopefully Zac can fix it again. 

[COB]

Volcom is right, they ran the ball better as the season wore on last year.  In fact this team seems to do everything better later in the year, year after year.  Unfortunately, Burrow’s pretty good at visiting IR the longer the year goes on.  
 

I shit talk Zac Taylor to strangers at the grocery store, but if we’re honest about it he does seem capable of fixing stuff in season.  Unfortunately he’s a champion a creating stuff that needs fixing.