2025 FA Thread

[ArmyBengal]

I didn't want to completely derail the Chargers thread, but would like to carry the conversation from there to here for further examination.

I was thinking about the defense and the take on Lou (I'm not touting a side) that he simply hasn't been given dudes.
I noted the misses with Dax Hill and Myles Murphy despite at that time them being "his dudes" since he played a part in them being drafted.

I am left to wonder, who are his dudes on defense ??  I'm going to take a guess, while considering our upcoming 2025 free agents.

DE Sam Hubbard- OLDER DUDE, whose role should transition into a backup/mentor as opposed to starter. Need a new starter.
DT Sheldon Rankins- NOT A DUDE and needs to be replaced.
DT BJ Hill- BIG DUDE, who is an UFA that will be 30 before the start of next season.  I still want him back.  We need him back.
DE Trey Hendrickson- MASSIVE DUDE who wants a new deal and I think has earned it.  He turns 30 in three weeks.
LB Logan Wilson- DEFINTELY DUDE and won't be going anywhere.
LB Germaine Pratt- DEFINTELY DUDE and isn't an UFA until 2026 when he turns 30, so he's back next year.
LB Akeem Davis-Gaither- SOLID DUDE who is an UFA and turned 27 this year.  I'd like to see him back as well.
CB Cam Taylor Britt- SOLID DUDE maybe better.  Needs to shut his mouth.  Isn't a UFA until 2026 and still only 27. He's back next year.
SS Vonn Bell- NO LONGER A DUDE who is an UFA and needs to be replaced.
FS Geno Stone- DUDE IN CHICKS CLOTHING has been a disappointment this season in what was thought to be a great FA pick up.
CB Josh Newton- YOUNG POTENTIAL DUDE.
NB Mike Hilton- OLDER DUDE who's going to be 31 before next season and an UFA.  Would be nice for Hill to find his fit here.

DT Kris Jenkins and DT McKinnley Jackson-  YOUNG POTENTIAL DUDES who haven't gotten a ton of snaps.  More snaps for them both.
DE Joseph Ossai and LB Joe Batchie- WANNABE DUDES and both are UFA after this season.  Both are young depth.  Consider extension?
CB DJ Ivey, SS Jordan Battle, FS Tycen Anderson, CB DJ Turner- COULD BE DUDES, hard to say. Turner and Battle have upside.
S/CB Dax Hill and DE Myles Murphy- BUST DUDES that will both be back next year.  Maybe next season is THE season for them.

So we have 6 players that I consider dudes (maybe more).  2 are UFA's, 1 wants a new contract, and 3 others.
There are a handful of maybe's, not quite's and young guys as well.

I think Lou has been given dudes when I look at the list and they simply aren't producing or have all but busted out.
That being said, give him one more draft (pass rush), more free agent help (if financially possible) and hope youngsters develop.
We need at least one more dynamic player to impact this defense.

 

[TJJackson]

I dont think Dax is a bust

at all

I am not gonna elaborate because I have my reasons and you have yours

I think Murphy needs more snaps to better judge him, and with this season being essentially over, I think now is the time to begin that analysis period

[ArmyBengal]

My reason is because Dax hasn't done anything since he's been here and has already been moved from the position he was drafted to play due to his inability to do so.
Now he's on IR and contributes nothing.

I'm always open to listening and am content agreeing to disagree.  Neither here nor there for me.
I would be nothing but happy to see pro bowl level play from Dax and will root for it to happen.
It's not like I'm rooting against any of these guys.  I'd be happy to see him be a solid starting nickel back next year if Hilton leaves.

If a first round talent (Murphy) can't push an obviously older and slower guy (Hubbard) and take some snaps from him, that's a problem.
Hubbard, while I love the dude, it clearly declining.

Maybe my expectations for 1st round guys is different from others.
These guys should be day one starters or at a minimum, solid contributors to the production of the team, looking to take a lead role the following year.

[TJJackson]

yet we know first rounders dont always work out that way

Klingler, David

Smith, Akili

Perry, Two Carry

Bagadonuts, Joey

I think it is highly unfortunate that Dax got a season ending injury.  He was progressing nicely

With Murphy, he needs more snaps.  Use the remainder of this losing season to evaluate such players via more snaps.   I honestly think Lou plays his starters on DL waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too damn much - these fellas need to be rotated to keep them fresh.  Nows the time.

[HoosierCat]

4 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

DT Sheldon Rankins- NOT A DUDE and needs to be replaced

That would give them an additional $9.5 million in cap space to do nothing with, so good idea I guess.

[ArmyBengal]

So of the free agents they are looking at for 2025, here's where I am today.
Pay Higgins and moderately pay BJ Hill.  Mike Hilton at a reduced price wouldn't bother me for another season.
ADG at LB is also only 27 and contributes, but I won't care if he leaves as long as they can get a replacement.

Shitcan literally everyone else that is a free agent.  No need to overpay backup o-linemen or anyone else not named above from the defense.

Why pay Higgins despite needing to still pay Chase ??  Simple...
Who the hell else are they going to need to pay ??  In 2026, there is a decent list and I only see Pratt, as Chase will get paid this offseason.
They will have to figure out the 5th year option for Dax and he may or may not be worth it.  I don't think he is at the moment, but rooting for him.
Cam Taylor-Britt has gone from solid dude to ranking below TJ's dead gramma.

Hendrickson's contract isn't up until 2026, although he has been unhappy with his pay and will be again this offseason, despite turning 30 in two days.
Why not try to trade him and get something, anything in return?  That is unless they really feel they are going to compete in 2026.  I really don't.
Even in 2027.  Who is such a standout that it will require the team to hand out a top of the market deal?

Now I get maybe you want to be able to go out and get a new free agent player or two to help out, but there are players that can and should be cut.
However, the Bengals don't typically do that.  See doing the same thing, while expecting different results.

There are far more holes on this team than I was willing to really consider at the start of the season, but creating another by letting Higgins walk isn't smart.
It would be another penny pinching move by the front office, while trying to convince fans they are going to try to continue building.
Thing is, it hasn't been working.  If there are not some massive changes made, I will come here to see you guys, but I'm about done.  54 years has been enough.

Shame on me...

[HoosierCat]

Sounds like a plan to me, Army.

Note from yesterday's story here: https://www.bengals.com/news/orlando-brown-jr-s-gut-check-lou-anarumo-sticking-with-secondary-quick-hits

Battle will be starting over Bell the rest of the way. Not that there was much doubt, but clearly Bell's time here is five games from up.

[HoosierCat]

FWIW I’m starting to see the idea of tagging Tee again bubbling up. That works for me, too. Would cost $26 million but they have $64 million in cap space coming and it’s not like they have a better use for it. (And re Chase he’s already set to count $22 million against the cap so there’s plenty of room to fit an extension in too.)

(And while we’re on the subject of cap hits, cutting Rankins would save $9.5 million next year, Hubbard 9.6 and Stone 6.5. Cutting Cappa frees up another 8.)

[ArmyBengal]

Regarding Rankins, Hubbard, Stone and Cappa...

CUT THEM ALL NOW.

With that, thank you Hubbard for all your hard work and what you have meant to the team, but time has caught up to you as well dude.
Best wishes !!!

So extend both Tee and Ja'Marr and cut those mentioned above.  Everything else goes back to the draft and whatever money is left for average free agent(s).
If that is teamed up with the firing of at least Anarumo and Pollack.  I might just tune in to a game or two next season.

[HoosierCat]

Joe wants Gesicki back next year.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2024/12/6/24314407/joe-burrow-love-bring-back-tight-end-mike-gesicki

Given that All is hurt and we don’t know what we have in Tanner because they won’t even activate him, seems like it would be a smart move.

[ArmyBengal]

I have no issue with Gesicki coming back. 

Based upon how they have viewed TE's over the past few seasons, I can't imagine them wanting to spend more money there, but it's needed.
I also wouldn't be surprised if they looked for a cheaper veteran TE option and start over.

That would suck, but would be telling of their mindset.

[TJJackson]

I want All as TE1 next year

He has shown he can be the 3 down TE I have talked about for years during the offseason

But if Gesicki is willing to come back for reasonable money, I am all for it

[ArmyBengal]

I like All as well.  He just needs to stay healthy.
He has an injury history at this point.

[TJJackson]

He definitely does........and I get that, but if he is healthy to me he is TE1 at this point.  He is a three down TE and we've not had that for a very long time

[HoosierCat]

Thing about All is that there were rumors about the quality of the surgery when the acl was repaired the first time. I didn’t really pay much attention to them, but now that the same acl tore again, on a non contact injury…man, I don’t know. Not a doctor but I’m playing it like he’s done. If he comes back strong, great, not saying he won’t. But right now I’m not counting on anything from him.

[ArmyBengal]

I’m a big fan of All’s but that is my only concern and obviously that’s big.

[ArmyBengal]

So here's a question that really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, because I don't think Zac gets fired.

What if he did?  That's one to ponder.

Without trying to come up with the probable no name coach they would hire, WHO WOULD YOU WANT to coach the Bengals next year?

The reason I ask is, because we actually have a franchise QB and a top end offense.
I have heard plenty of times through our years of being fans how coaches would love to coach in a place with an established elite franchise QB.
Well, I think that would make the Bengals an attractive coaching option for coaches that might not have given thought to coaching here before Burrow.

I don't really have any thoughts myself, but have heard Vrabel's name dropped in a couple of places and I like that he's a defensive minded coach.
He would also probably turn over offensive play calling to the coordinator, which would make me happy.

Thoughts?

[AMPHAR]

Last year the Pittsburgh Steelers rolled into Cincinnati and broke some streak of not gaining 400 yards.   A few weeks later the Vikings roll into town with some dude and he had a career day.   Lou sold a bunch of bullshit that it was ALL Dax Hill's fault.   Media bought into it much the same they thought Mixon was an issue.  Bunch of clowns.

A year later Russell Wilson comes into Cincinnati and set a career mark then the next week looks average at best at home vs. the Browns. 

Team's know what he is running and what route combos work best against his communications/coverage adjustments.   His 2023/2024 level of defense achievement is near his 2019/2020 level.  Ass horrible, IMO.   2021/2022 are the outliers and not really great season long defenses.  He had a handful of great playoff/key games.

Believe what you want.   But the question is IF you believe its front office and talent.   Why or how can you justify giving Lou another 3/4 new bodies and think something is going to change?    Do both.  Bring in new bodies AND let someone new coach them.   I wouldn't waste another season on hoping Lou can create a defense worthy enough to compliment the offense. 

[HoosierCat]

The popular name is of course BB and, setting aside the manifest impossibility of this organization doing something that smart, that’s the direction I would prefer they go. I’m neutral on Belichick himself, but him or someone like him — an experienced, proven, championship coach who would command instant respect in the locker room and would bring with him quality, proven assistants — is what’s needed, imho.

But that would cost a huge amount of money, so that’s out.

So yeah, I could get behind someone like Vrabel, who has the experience and at least some record of success. There would be competition. Bears, Jets and Saints all reported to be interested in Vrabel. But yeah you would think the chance to start out with a franchise QB in his prime and the best receiver in the league would be attractive.

If all they are going to do is hire another cheap assistant jock strap stretcher, may as well stick with the one we have.

[AMPHAR]

3 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

So here's a question that really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, because I don't think Zac gets fired.

What if he did?  That's one to ponder.

Without trying to come up with the probable no name coach they would hire, WHO WOULD YOU WANT to coach the Bengals next year?

The reason I ask is, because we actually have a franchise QB and a top end offense.
I have heard plenty of times through our years of being fans how coaches would love to coach in a place with an established elite franchise QB.
Well, I think that would make the Bengals an attractive coaching option for coaches that might not have given thought to coaching here before Burrow.

I don't really have any thoughts myself, but have heard Vrabel's name dropped in a couple of places and I like that he's a defensive minded coach.
He would also probably turn over offensive play calling to the coordinator, which would make me happy.

Thoughts?

Burrow and Chase would be a factor.   Assuming that contract gets done.   Its all about getting the most out of those two.   So I'd automatically strike a line through any name that wasn't offensive focused. 

If Burrow has Zac's back, IMO you don't even approach the subject until next year.

 

[AMPHAR]

Kliff Kingsbury is the only guy I'd go after IF a change was were to be made.   I wouldn't fuck around with Vrabel that couldn't get a team he built past the Chiefs/Bills/Bengals.

Vrabel is unlikely to get the max out of Burrow/Chase.   Screams Marvin Lewis in the playoffs.

 

 

[HoosierCat]

Yeah, I think we all expected this: Joe wants Tee back.

Quote

“I’m confident we are going to be able to do what it takes to bring Tee [Higgins] back,” Burrow said. “I know that I am going to do what it takes to get him back. So, he can have those talks; those are going to be offseason discussions. I think we are excited about that opportunity.”

These comments from Burrow come as a surprise considering it’s widely assumed that this is Higgins’ final year in Cincinnati due to failed contract negotiations ahead of the 2023 season with Chase’s deal looming.

The Enquirer reported Higgins wasn’t under the impression that he was going to be a part of Cincinnati’s long-term plans ahead of Week 1 last season. Burrow was asked a follow up question on why he’s got confidence the team can reach an extension with Higgins based off how things have gone over the last two years.

“We’ll see,” is how Burrow responded.

Higgins said “nothing has changed” in terms of the situation. He reiterated that he “never ruled out” a possibility of returning to Cincinnati. But then deferred all questions about how it all works out to the Bengals’ front office.

“I think that’s a question for upstairs (Bengals’ ownership),” Higgins said in the locker room.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2024/12/10/joe-burrow-bengals-tee-higgins-jamarr-chase-contract-negotiations/76878835007/

I don't know if the FO is willing to do long-term deals with both Tee and Chase, but it feels a lot more likely to me they tag Tee again now than it did to me three or four months ago.

[COB]

I love Tee Higgins.  I’m also a realist regarding Tee Higgins.  He’s hurt a lot and misses games.  Super effective when he’s healthy and a great teammate.  
 

His agent is going to want R1 money.  To tie up that much cap in one position is not workable (at least for a team with our fiscal policies regarding cap management).

[COB]

So my feeling is if we want him so bad, as Hoosiers said, it’ll be in the tag.  
 

How that works I don’t know.  Tagging a guy twice is risky and it’s a bit of a dick move.  Kind of an unwritten rule in the nfl that you don’t do that.

[HoosierCat]

A second tag would 120% of this year's number, so around $26 million. That's easily doable with the amount of cap space they have. Whether they would be willing to do that, and if so would Tee sit out, etc., who knows.

As for a long-term deal, it's more realistic than you might expect just because the cap is projected to keep rising at fairly eye-popping rates, and honestly aside from Chase, they don't really have anyone else they need to back up the Brink's truck for.

Orlando is signed through 2026.

Mims they can't even think about until 2027 earliest.

Trey is up after 2025. You could pay him but since he's 31 it will probably be like maybe a 3 year deal?

The last few drafts haven't produced any standouts who will command a big payday (unfortunately!).

I guess you could look to try to make some big splashes in FA. But as we saw that's year that's hit or miss. Yeah, Tee has issues staying on the field but at least we know what to expect there.