2021 NFL Draft

[TJJackson]

It really doesnt matter that some teams are low on Sewell and Fields and <whoever>

it only takes one team to be high on them

[Wraith]

So, was watching the NFL Network the other day and Dan Orlovsky was talking about the Bengals' pick at #5.

Essentially he said he will come through the TV if the Bengals don't take Penei Sewell with their first round pick...This is the dumbest take I have ever heard for three reasons.

1) The second most cardinal rule (after my "Don't Draft Dumb Football Players") is do not pass up a more talented players for a lesser talented player at a position of greater need early in the draft.  While not every analyst has Chase as the better prospect I think the consensus is that Chase and Pitts are better, more talented prospects than Sewell.

2) If the Bengals draft Ja'Marr Chase (or Kyle Pitts) it is because their franchise QB has asked for it... there is a 0 % chance that they would draft a pass catcher over a Tackle if Burrow didn't want them to.  So taking an offensive lineman over the guy your QB wants would increase frustration levels and decrease the chance that your QB will stay with the team in the long term.

3) It ignores depth at the position.  There are 5 WRs that have the pass catching talent and the ability to be the athletic WR the Bengals need in this draft....they are Ja'Marr Chase, Jalen Waddle, Devonta Smith, Terrace Marshall III, and Rashad Batemen there are about 20 olinemen with starting ability...it is much more likely that an Olineman will drop than one of those 5 WRs.  On top of that while Chase is the universal #1 WR in this draft, Sewell is not the universal best tackle, particularly after his lackluster proday.

[membengal]

I can live with Dan Orlovsky being a little bitch. Welcome it, in fact. 

[membengal]

 

[membengal]

 

[HoosierCat]

9 years out of 10 I’d be right there with Orlovsky. This is just that 10th year thanks to the incredible depth of the OL class.

And I’m willing to bet Orlovsky knows this, and like many other national media types are secretly praying the Bengals take Chase or Pitts. Because that lets them reignite the “Bengals don’t care about Burrow/Burrow should force a trade” story from last year and spend the next few months making shit up and twisting anything Joe says to build a “Joe is unhappy/wants out” story. 

[membengal]

Yup. Feels like they simply want a storyline they can hammer without bothering with any analysis.

[TJJackson]

Its be awesome if someone with paywall access can paste this list to this thread

 

[HoosierCat]

Trevor Lawrence* QB6'5⅝"213Clemson97  1

Kyle Pitts* TE6'5⅝"245Florida94  2

Ja'Marr Chase* WR6'0⅜"201LSU94  3

Zach Wilson* QB6'2⅛"214BYU93  4

DeVonta Smith WR6'0¼"170Alabama93  5

Jaylen Waddle* WR5'9½"180Alabama93  6

Penei Sewell* OT6'6"330Oregon93  7

Rashawn Slater OT6'4¼"304Northwestern93  8

Micah Parsons* ILB6'3⅛"246Penn State93  9

Trey Lance* QB6'3⅞"224North Dakota State92  10

Patrick Surtain II* CB6'2"208Alabama92  11

Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah ILB6'1½"221Notre Dame92  12

Justin Fields* QB6'2¾"227Ohio State91  13

Jaycee Horn* CB6'0¾"205South Carolina91  14

Alijah Vera-Tucker* OG6'4½"308USC91  15

Caleb Farley* CB6'1⅞"197Virginia Tech91  16

Trevon Moehrig* S6'0⅝"202TCU91  17

Kwity Paye DE6'2½"261Michigan91  18

Mac Jones* QB6'2⅝"217Alabama90  19

Kadarius Toney WR5'11⅝"193Florida90  20

Najee Harris RB6'1⅜"232Alabama90  21

Travis Etienne RB5'10⅛"215Clemson90  22

Zaven Collins* OLB6'4"260Tulsa90  23

Azeez Ojulari* OLB6'2¼"249Georgia90  24

Christian Darrisaw* OT6'4¾"322Virginia Tech90  25

Jamin Davis* ILB6'3½"234Kentucky90  26

Greg Newsome II* CB6'0"192Northwestern90  27

Jaelan Phillips* DE6'5½"260Miami90  28

Terrace Marshall Jr.* WR6'2½"205LSU90  29

Teven Jenkins OT6'6½"320Oklahoma State89  30

Nick Bolton* ILB5'11⅛"237Missouri89  31

Christian Barmore* DT6'4⅛"310Alabama89  32

Elijah Moore* WR5'9½"178Ole Miss89  33

Javonte Williams* RB5'9⅝"212North Carolina88  34

Ronnie Perkins* DE6'2½"253Oklahoma88  35

Jalen Mayfield* OT6'5¼"326Michigan88  36

Liam Eichenberg OT6'6⅛"306Notre Dame88  37

Joe Tryon* DE6'5"259Washington88  38

Rashod Bateman* WR6'0⅜"190Minnesota88  39

Asante Samuel Jr.* CB5'10⅛"180Florida State88  40

Gregory Rousseau* DE6'6⅝"266Miami88  41

Tutu Atwell* WR5'8⅞"155Louisville87  42

Jayson Oweh* DE6'4⅞"257Penn State87  43

Levi Onwuzurike DT6'2⅞"290Washington87  44

Jabril Cox ILB6'3¼"232LSU86  45

Carlos Basham Jr. DE6'3¼"274Wake Forest86  46

Kelvin Joseph* CB5'11½"197Kentucky85  47

Pat Freiermuth* TE6'5"251Penn State85  48

Landon Dickerson C6'5⅝"333Alabama85  49

Elijah Molden CB5'9½"192Washington84  50

Ranked Players

NAMEPOSHTWTSCHOOLGRADEDRAFTED BYPK(OVR)OVR RANK

Chazz Surratt ILB6'2⅛"229North Carolina84  51

Patrick Jones II DE6'4¼"261Pittsburgh83  52

Richie Grant S5'11⅝"197UCF83  53

Hunter Long* TE6'5"254Boston College83  54

Rondale Moore* WR5'7"181Purdue82  55

Samuel Cosmi* OT6'5⅞"314Texas82  56

Jevon Holland* S6'1"208Oregon82  57

Creed Humphrey* C6'4¼"302Oklahoma82  58

Alex Leatherwood OG6'4¾"312Alabama82  59

Payton Turner DE6'5½"289Houston81  60

Andre Cisco* S6'0⅝"216Syracuse81  61

Tyson Campbell* CB6'1"193Georgia81  62

Jackson Carman* OG6'4⅞"317Clemson81  63

Ifeatu Melifonwu* CB6'2½"205Syracuse80  64

Quinn Meinerz* OG6'2⅞"320Wisconsin-Whitewater80  65

Dillon Radunz OT6'5¾"301North Dakota State79  66

Chris Rumph II* OLB6'2⅞"244Duke79  67

Alim McNeill* DT6'1⅞"317NC State79  68

Eric Stokes* CB6'0⅝"194Georgia79  69

Anthony Schwartz* WR6'0"186Auburn79  70

Tylan Wallace WR5'11"187Oklahoma State78  71

Aaron Robinson CB5'11½"186UCF78  72

Trey Sermon RB6'0⅜"215Ohio State78  73

Nico Collins WR6'4⅛"215Michigan77  74

Milton Williams* DT6'3"284Louisiana Tech77  75

Benjamin St-Juste CB6'3¼"202Minnesota77  76

Wyatt Davis* OG6'3⅝"315Ohio State77  77

Walker Little OT6'7⅜"313Stanford77  78

Michael Carter RB5'7⅞"201North Carolina77  79

Joseph Ossai* OLB6'3¾"256Texas76  80

D'Wayne Eskridge WR5'8¾"190Western Michigan76  81

Jay Tufele* DT6'2⅛"305USC76  82

Tay Gowan CB6'0⅞"186UCF76  83

James Hudson* OT6'4¾"313Cincinnati75  84

Amari Rodgers WR5'9½"212Clemson75  85

Shi Smith WR5'9½"186South Carolina73  86

Brevin Jordan* TE6'2⅝"247Miami73  87

Kellen Mond QB6'2⅝"211Texas A&M73  88

Shakur Brown* CB5'9¾"185Michigan State73  89

Jamar Johnson* S6'1"197Indiana73  90

Aaron Banks OG6'5⅜"325Notre Dame73  91

Cade Johnson WR5'10⅝"184South Dakota State72  92

Paulson Adebo CB6'1"198Stanford72  93

Richard LeCounte S5'10½"196Georgia72  94

Daviyon Nixon* DT6'3⅛"313Iowa72  95

Dyami Brown* WR6'0⅝"189North Carolina71  96

Spencer Brown OT6'8¼"311Northern Iowa71  97

Pete Werner ILB6'2⅞"238Ohio State71  98

Trey Smith OG6'5½"321Tennessee71  99

Shaun Wade CB6'0⅝"196Ohio State71  100

Ranked Players

NAMEPOSHTWTSCHOOLGRADEDRAFTED BYPK(OVR)OVR RANK

Hamsah Nasirildeen S6'3¼"215Florida State71  101

Osa Odighizuwa DT6'1⅝"282UCLA71  102

Kyle Trask QB6'5¼"236Florida70  103

Sage Surratt* WR6'2½"209Wake Forest70  104

Josh Myers* C6'5¼"310Ohio State70  105

Baron Browning OLB6'2¾"245Ohio State70  106

Marco Wilson* CB5'11⅝"191Florida70  107

Dayo Odeyingbo DE6'5⅛"285Vanderbilt70  108

Marvin Wilson DT6'3⅞"303Florida State70  109

Tyler Shelvin* DT6'2⅛"350LSU70  110

Rhamondre Stevenson RB5'11⅝"231Oklahoma70
 

[HoosierCat]

70-79 third round, 80-89 second, 90 plus first. Sorry for the formatting but copy paste only gets u so far. 

[TJJackson]

Thanks for that, Joisey

I'd love to have the complete list but probably most folks just want to see the upper tier list

If I am reading this right they only have first round grades on 29 players?

[AMPHAR]

Offensive line for the Bengal fans and media pundits is a self fulfilling prophecy at this point.

The Bengals will ruin Burrow.  Bengals line sucks.   Boom...Burrow gets injured.

There is underlining truth and misinformation in that prophecy.   The Bengals line did suck.  Burrow did take hits (some on him).    The injury however occurred at a time the hits reduced dramatically and in a game in which a vaunted pass rush couldn't get home.    A lineman tangled up with a defender falling into his knee after the ball was gone is what happened.

You can't draft linemen to prevent the actual play.   Its a false narrative.

Drafting Chase, Pitts, Slater, or Sewell is all a step in a direction to maximize Burrow's talent.  They must do both and 1 will not work without the other.  

No matter who the pick is at 5 nothing is fixed if picks 38 and beyond don't materialize.  They need upgrades in WR and multiple picks on OL.

Sewell or bust mentality is dumb.    He might not even be the best tackle in the draft class.

The only scenario that would be justified riots is if they use a top 50 pick on defense without a trade down that adds picks.

They need to get Fred Johnson off the roster.  They need to bust up the quality but we all do the same thing WR group.   Need to give Xavier/Spain a run for their money at starting jobs.

 

[AMPHAR]

Where the Bengals could get burnt in this draft is an unprecedented run on OL after the 5th pick between the 38th

12 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

70-79 third round, 80-89 second, 90 plus first. Sorry for the formatting but copy paste only gets u so far. 

I count  OL - 4 first rounders.   8 2nd rounders.   7 3rd rounder.    19 players.

To have 33% of the players taken in the first 37 be Offensive line seems kinda high considering the QBs.  Really 12 OL taken in 32 picks after 5.  

19 in the first 67 sounds high too.  

If that run happens on OL then there is going to be a gem sitting there and probably alot of unhappy Bengal fans, I guess.

 

[HoosierCat]

54 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

Offensive line for the Bengal fans and media pundits is a self fulfilling prophecy at this point.

The Bengals will ruin Burrow.  Bengals line sucks.   Boom...Burrow gets injured.

There is underlining truth and misinformation in that prophecy.   The Bengals line did suck.  Burrow did take hits (some on him).    The injury however occurred at a time the hits reduced dramatically and in a game in which a vaunted pass rush couldn't get home.    A lineman tangled up with a defender falling into his knee after the ball was gone is what happened.

You can't draft linemen to prevent the actual play.   Its a false narrative.

Drafting Chase, Pitts, Slater, or Sewell is all a step in a direction to maximize Burrow's talent.  They must do both and 1 will not work without the other.  

No matter who the pick is at 5 nothing is fixed if picks 38 and beyond don't materialize.  They need upgrades in WR and multiple picks on OL.

Sewell or bust mentality is dumb.    He might not even be the best tackle in the draft class.

The only scenario that would be justified riots is if they use a top 50 pick on defense without a trade down that adds picks.

They need to get Fred Johnson off the roster.  They need to bust up the quality but we all do the same thing WR group.   Need to give Xavier/Spain a run for their money at starting jobs.

 

Can’t argue with any of that.

[HoosierCat]

Re a run on OL, anything is possible but if it happens then it would be completrly unforeseen. Mel has a new 2 round mock out today (Sewell/Brown for the Bengals) and the following are taken after the Bengals pick at 38:

Dickerson (85)

Mayfield (88)

Cosmi (82)

Radunz (79)

Eichenberg (88)

Carmen (81)

Little (77)

Note that Dyami Brown, who Mel has us taking, grades out a 71 per espn.

[redsbengalsbucks]

1 hour ago, HoosierCat said:

Re a run on OL, anything is possible but if it happens then it would be completrly unforeseen. Mel has a new 2 round mock out today (Sewell/Brown for the Bengals) and the following are taken after the Bengals pick at 38:

Dickerson (85)

Mayfield (88)

Cosmi (82)

Radunz (79)

Eichenberg (88)

Carmen (81)

Little (77)

Note that Dyami Brown, who Mel has us taking, grades out a 71 per espn.

much rather have Chase and Cosmi, Little, Dickerson or Eichenberg

[membengal]

Classic reach for need scenario from Kiper. I hate it. But that's what a Sewell pick at 5 would probably require. 

[membengal]

From Matt Miller's latest notebook:

Quote

Cincinnati — I’ve gone back and forth on if Cincinnati will go offensive tackle or wide receiver at No. 5 overall. The intel from around the league points to it being wide receiver Ja’Marr Chase (LSU) in this spot. Joe Burrow has a say in personnel matters in Cincinnati and was directly involved in bringing free agent offensive tackle Riley Reiff to town. He’s also rumored to be advocating for Chase at No. 5 overall. If the Bengals do go wide receiver here, the good news is that the offensive line depth in this class is very impressive. They could walk out of Round 2 with Chase and Samuel Cosmi (Texas) on roster.

 

Quote

 

The Scout’s Report
— Virginia Tech cornerback Caleb Farley underwent additional examinations at the NFL’s medical combine last weekend and declared himself ready to go for the start of the season. That, I’m told, might be an exaggeration. One source I spoke with who reviewed Farley’s medical records said his timeline wasn’t set in stone yet. Farley should play this year, but it might not be Week 1 based on medical professionals. That could cause the slip to late Round 1 we’re expecting.

—Quarterbacks Justin Fields and Trey Lance will hold second pro day workouts in the coming week as they hope to boost their stock and status in the days before the NFL Draft.

Will this help? Maybe. NFL general managers and head coaches are human beings prone to bias just like the rest of us, but the horse is in the barn at this point for most top evaluations like those at quarterback.

Can Fields do anything to change the mind of Kyle Shanahan tomorrow? Can Lance? That would be very surprising given the team must have identified their preferred quarterback when they moved up from No. 12 overall to the third pick.

Could things change? Absolutely. But it’s a very big long shot.

—Florida wide receiver Kadarius Toney is one of my favorites at the position in this class, but conversations with multiple teams leads me to believe there is a good chance he falls out of Round 1 on draft night.

—One riser at the receiver position to remember: North Carolina’s Dyami Brown. One scout I spoke with this week said they have a grade on him very similar to Deebo Samuel, who was the No. 36 overall pick in the 2019 NFL draft.

—The pass-rusher group has very little consensus this year, but two names to keep an eye on: Buffalo’s Malcolm Koonce and Duke’s Chris Rumph II. Both are smaller, speed-rusher types who I believe teams are higher on than most realize. Round 2 for each player isn’t out of the question.

—There are a lot of fans of cornerback Asante Samuel, Jr. but conversations around the league lead me to think he’s probably a mid-Round 2 selection. It does only take one team to change that, but the hype on him might be a little high.

—If you read this column weekly you know I love Auburn wide receiver Anthony Schwartz. His deep speed is intense! He’s expected to be a top 64 selection according to teams I’ve spoken to.

—South Carolina linebacker Ernest Jones made a massive jump up my board this week after further evaluating thanks to an astute area scout who saw how low he was on my previous board. His athleticism at 6’1”, 230 lbs is eye-opening. He’s carrying a late Round 2 - early Round 3 grade.

—A player I’m asked about often is Syracuse cornerback Ifeatu Melifonwu. I polled NFL teams about him recently and could not find one club that has a Round 1 or Round 2 grade on him.

—If you’re eye-balling a big cornerback in this class, NFL teams love Minnesota’s Benjamin St-Juste. He’s 6’3”-plus and has a fiery play style.

 

 

[Wraith]

3 hours ago, redsbengalsbucks said:

much rather have Chase and Cosmi, Little, Dickerson or Eichenberg

this is exactly the reason you take Chase in the first.  It is highly likely that Marshall and Bateman are gone by #38, it is an almost certainty that Waddle, Chase and Smith are gone.   Even if one of the five slips into the 2nd round they will likely be snapped up before we get to our pick.   If those five WRs are gone, the well is pretty dry at #38, you can always double dip on the oline, that would be fine but that leaves the WR group lacking much needed athleticism.   Schwartz and Brown ran very simplified routes in college, they did not have much of a route tree and were purely vertical guys in college.  Schwartz is John Ross 2.0, bad hands, can't run routes, concentration lapses....will get over drafted because of speed.  Brown is a better prospect but because he was used almost exclusively as a vertical threat in UNC's offense, you have no idea if he can run good routes or not.  On top of that Brown is not shifty and can't shake guys after the catch with only 4.9 yards after reception.

Chase can do everything at an incredibly high level, you take him at 5 because he makes every play look better.

[Wraith]

I want to highlight an absolute bonkers statistic from Ja'Marr Chase' 2019 campaign

in 2019 he caught 84 balls for 1,780 yards and 20 TDs...that is an average of 21.2 YPC.  This means that every 4 times he touches the ball he is scoring a TD that is the equivalent of a Home Run in baseball....these are not short yardage situations on average.  That ratio is incredible.

[AMPHAR]

Yeah if they go Sewell or Slater at 5, I would rather double dip on the line given the players after Brown in Kipers mock. 
 

[membengal]

Not crazy on this point? Me.

 

[Wraith]

42 minutes ago, membengal said:

Not crazy on this point? Me.

 

No but accurate. We need an X and there are very few true X's in this draft, heck even Waddle is more of a Y or a Z

[HoosierCat]

I saw someone comp Chase to Steve Smith so...yeah, I’ll take that.

[membengal]

56 minutes ago, Wraith said:

No but accurate. We need an X and there are very few true X's in this draft, heck even Waddle is more of a Y or a Z

I meant, I am not crazy as I have been making this point for three months. Was happy to see it confirmed from someone in the league.