Stripes Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 Stockpiling a ton of picks is the business of perennially bad teams trying to reload their talent core. If the Bengals simultaneously think their talent is strong enough to contend for/in the playoffs and they stockpile picks, then they would seem to be at odds with themselves. I do think there are times where quantity beats quality in the draft, but this is not the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 So we are agreed, we'll be drafting people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I don't know COB, I'm pretty sure we could find a chimp to do what Ogbuehi has done to this point. Maybe that's an option.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 Draft classes aren't created equal. Quantity vs. Quality shouldn't be judged by the roster but rather the draft class itself and thoughts on the one next in line. College football teams do this all the time by saving scholarships or going extra heavy on a position when they look at the current vs. the pipeline. Unfortunately the fan has no idea what the actual quality of the class is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 My thoughts on quality vs. quantity (which is certainly debatable) is that I feel it would be pointless to add 11 players to this team. Another aspect to consider is the future potential free agents the team will be looking at beyond this season. 2018 has some more starters coming due. I'm not suggesting selling the farm for 3-4 picks. I am suggesting taking a shot at players the team feels are better quality. With comp picks being tradable, this becomes a more realistic possibility. Outside of the 1st rounder, how many of the 11 picks are thought to be in line to start ?? Knowing how this team is with the youngsters, I would think that number is at most 1-2. Maybe none. So another 9-10 players for depth and/or the practice squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted January 25, 2017 Report Share Posted January 25, 2017 I get it. There only so many slots on depth chart and it makes sense to trade to try to fill out some top slots with better players. I just think about a guy like AJ that's known as 5th rounder. Probably because of a numbers game at the position. Another year (maybe) he slides up to the 3rd or 4th, maybe? Then all of sudden the stigma with this guy changes. Now all of sudden it isn't so hard to believe he could be a starter. That's all I'm saying, when they slice and dice these guys up. They may find guys getting ranked in the 150+ area might have been top 150 in another year. Of course the opposite could be true as well in which trades should happen. Unfortunately, it's probably subjective even with the professional talent evaluators so us common fans have no clue. Fun to discuss for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 There you go, that's what I was speaking to in regards to talent being debatable. Some of this certainly has to do with the fact that I'm getting close to being done with this team and I want to see them do something. Do anything for that matter. Just something that would give me a reason to believe they actually care to do more than just compete. Don't know how to keep Kirkpatrick Zeitler probably going to be allowed to walk Zero accountability for coaches and players Extensions for those not deserving Unwilling to budge from past practices Wash, rinse, repeat. There's always next year. This team has become uninspiring, boring, and it really irritates me as a long time fan. I just want to see them do more than sit in the corner with their thumb up their ass. Hope SUCKS !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 Ok, I killed some time looking at mocks today and saw many that had us taking a DE with the 9th pick. Obviously Carlos Dunlap is locked in as one DE starter. The other currently is Michael Johnson. With that thought in mind, here's the question that concerns me with taking a DE with that pick. Does anyone think Marvin would start a rookie over MJ ?? I know I don't. What's the point in taking an impact player that won't see the field ?? Same thing goes for the CB position. There are other spots as well. The draft is becoming less and less interesting for me. Much like this team as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 How many times must I sat it? THAT BENCH WONT WARM ITSELF. Pick DE he plays on teams while the vet sucks. It's the Cincy way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 Coach up a rookie to start on day 1 of his first season? Sounds like a lot of work! Michael Johnson knows the defense, knows the calls, understands everything. Easier just to play him. The new guy will learn as time goes by. Just easier this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 My concern with drafting DE that high is that the Bengals are conservative with rushing their ends. They ask them to set edge and contain. Even a high end rusher like Dunlap doesn't always get the green light. Also a up and coming trend in the NFL is the volleyball approach to set blocks on short quick drops by the QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 I wouldn't worry. Like I said before, they will "can't" their way out of every position but WR and CB by the draft. Corners and receivers (including TE now, a shift from the old days) are what they value most, so presto! that's always the BPA! Scroll back through the last 10 or so drafts: CB, OT, CB, TE, CB, WR, TE, OT, LB, CB. 7/10. I'll bet it's 8/11 soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 I know I'm in the minority here, but a WR like Williams would push for playing time almost immediately. He may not start at the beginning of the season, but that would set up a nice WR scenario for the next 4 years with him and AJ. Boyd in the slot with those two on the outside would hardly be something to complain about. Again, I still think if they want (yeah right) someone to come in and start on day 1, Foster is the guy I'm targeting. Outside of Burfict, they don't have anyone else with his skillset. Not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Both lines played like shit, so gimme a lineman. I don't care what kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Our boy Geoff dives into the mailbag again. Quote Your question puts a couple of the Bengals’ basic tenants in play. Sigh. "Tenets" not "tenants" Hobs. A tenet is a basic principle. A tenant is someone who rents the room over your garage. But anyhow, what tenet would they violate if the dealt McCarron? Quote They could delve into free agency to pick up a veteran and replace McCarron if they deal him, but that’s another basic tenant. Don’t give up a compensatory pick if it means picking up an unrestricted free agent. Oh for cripes sake. Their fetish over comp picks is one reason they stunk last season. What's that, Hobs? You have proof that Mike Brown wants to "win now"? Quote But then you look at a year like 2016 when they were so close in 2015 and still they made sure they had veterans like Andrew Whitworth and Adam Jones and went out and signed starters in free agency in 34-year-old linebacker Karlos Dansby and 29-year-old wide receiver Brandon LaFell. It’s pretty clear looking at the last few years Bengals president Mike Brown is looking to win now. Hahahahahaha, Geoff, you slay me. Yup, ok, going out and signing an old washed up dude at LB and a bargain bin possession receiver = win now! Lulz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Stripes said: Both lines played like shit, so gimme a lineman. I don't care what kind. Agreed, but I just want to see a highly drafted player start at a position of need for this team. If they don't believe they can draft a starter with the #9 overall, something is wrong. I don't believe they would do that with ANY lineman drafted even though I feel DE is a large need. When I look at our front 7, it's staggering the difference in talent in the group as a whole. You have Atkins, Dunlap, and Burfict. Then what ?? Vets with leadership and understanding of the playbook they can't execute properly. Peko, MJ, Dansby, First name and Last name Rey. Not a single one of them is inspiring. They don't have enough talent period. They need another DT (Maybe Billings), DE (no one), OLB (Maybe Vigil), MLB (no one)... I'm just saying I think either DE or LB should be the pick at #9. From those two, LB is the only I could see the coaches actually starting day one of 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, HoosierCat said: Our boy Geoff dives into the mailbag again. Sigh. "Tenets" not "tenants" Hobs. A tenet is a basic principle. A tenant is someone who rents the room over your garage. But anyhow, what tenet would they violate if the dealt McCarron? Oh for cripes sake. Their fetish over comp picks is one reason they stunk last season. What's that, Hobs? You have proof that Mike Brown wants to "win now"? Hahahahahaha, Geoff, you slay me. Yup, ok, going out and signing an old washed up dude at LB and a bargain bin possession receiver = win now! Lulz. I do not believe they want to win now. I just can't look at this roster and coaches and believe that. Lack of talent, lack of accountability, and just stay the course. The stars will align one of these seasons, I just know it... F*CK !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 "They could delve into free agency to pick up a veteran and replace McCarron if they deal him, but that’s another basic tenant. Don’t give up a compensatory pick if it means picking up an unrestricted free agent." Geoff just out of nowhere announces that there a couple basic Bengal tenets. Have these been published before? Has the organization announced these, or publicized them in some way? Typical NFL team, sitting on so much money they can operate any stupid way they please, and their own customers can get fucked. The above listed tenet, "Don't give up a compensatory pick if it means picking up an unrestricted free agent," can be worded another way: "Mike Brown says when you are going to obtain a player, and the choice is between a vet on his 2nd or 3rd contract (EXPENSIVE!), or a draft pick on his rookie deal under the new CBA which allows you to underpay players for the first 4 years (CHEAP!), you always go with the cheap rookie." Mike has another tenet Geoff probably appreciates, "Company shills who can spell are expensive, if you can find one who can't spell, just go with him, the customers can't do anything about it anyway." Just kidding on that last part. Geoff does a decent job, under circumstances that are surely not all that easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Just want to push Army over the edge here. We are all frustrated that the Bengals seemingly are very slow to play their young guys. Let's explore the harsh world of "Proven Performance Escalators" (aka Mike Brown's Ulcer Fuel) for some clue as to what's going on here. What is a Proven Performance Escalator, you ask? It is a contractual mechanism that MUST be included in the contracts of all draft picks selected in rounds 3 through 7. It is part of the 2011 CBA, the CBA that screwed rookies and enriched vets and owners, mainly because the only people involved in the CBA negotiations were vets and owners! A Proven Performance Escalator - First of all, round 3 through 7 guys all have to sign 4 year deals. The PPE is a clause that states that if such a player has played 35% of his team's offensive or defensive snaps in two of his first three seasons, or averaged 35% playing time cumulatively in those 3 years, his PPE kicks in. The Proven Performance Escalator requires the player's 4th year salary to be raised to the level of that year's lowest restricted free agent tender. This is a significant raise. As you can imagine, no Bengal player earned the PPE based on the 3 years ending in 2015's season. 21 teams did have player(s) earn the PPE in that season. But don't worry! Mike is not just cheaping out and avoiding paying these guys! Proof lies in the end of the 2016 season, when one Bengal player earned his PPE raise. This player was scheduled to make about $690,000.00, but now will make $1.8 million! His name? Russel Bodine! Ha ha ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Nice catch, COB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 I've never hated you before COB, but that last post is making me reconsider that option now. That's really interesting and I wasn't aware of that part of the CBA. I know the NFL is a business, but it's like they are so shortsighted it's ridiculous. Can you imagine the support this team would get from the fans should they actually make it back to the Super Bowl and God forbid, win ?? The amount of money they would stand to make would pale in comparison to what they would have to spend. Fair weather fans would be coming out of the woodwork buying up everything in sight. Screams of "I always knew they'd win it all" would come from every part of the city !!! But no, that's not the reality of this team. Stay the course. It will all work out. Marvin's extension is coming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 I like the write up on Foster with NFL comparable. Patrick Willis etc. Very good. A reality question is this; Vincent Rey and Vigil. Those guys are going to take snaps. Is a No. 9 draft pick at LB going to force his way in along with Burfict to dominate LB snaps to 70%/80%? Fair question. Have the Bengals been specializing roles for LBs on purpose or forced to do so because of talent? Based on what is said, I think's more what they prefer to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Biggest thing with LB is that the nickle is now the base D so you get Burfict + everyone else. That's how they'll "can't" their way out of LB at 9, just watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GapControl Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 12 hours ago, ArmyBengal said: I've never hated you before COB, but that last post is making me reconsider that option now. That's really interesting and I wasn't aware of that part of the CBA. I know the NFL is a business, but it's like they are so shortsighted it's ridiculous. Can you imagine the support this team would get from the fans should they actually make it back to the Super Bowl and God forbid, win ?? The amount of money they would stand to make would pale in comparison to what they would have to spend. Fair weather fans would be coming out of the woodwork buying up everything in sight. Screams of "I always knew they'd win it all" would come from every part of the city !!! But no, that's not the reality of this team. Stay the course. It will all work out. Marvin's extension is coming... "Look Marv... I know what you're saying here but... if I lose the Lumina on the kind of wild gamble you and Duke are suggesting..I...I...could never forgive myself." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Why did I think Maualuga was a free agent THIS year ?? He's not up until next season. Disregard Foster I suppose... Sure they could cut him since his play has declined, but they won't. He'll be the starter regardless of his level of suck. Next year him and Burfict are both UFA, but that won't stop them from ignoring the LB position for another season. I will come here and talk this up, but I can't say as this draft even mildly excites me. I see no changes coming for 2017. A rerun of 2016. More pain and irritation sets in. This team is a f*cking hemorrhoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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