2015 Draft Priorities

[HoosierCat]

Hey,remember I made noises about Odell Beckham Jr. last year and got roundly shouted down...

If the want a WR in the draft, it looks like there should be some guys in rounds 2-3.

[gregcook68]

I think the only thing worth talking about is what they "should" do, or opinions on it.

The two areas they need immediate help are WR and DE. I think FA is the place to address these spots.

At WR, one guy I just realized that is a FA is Randall Cobb. I think he'd look pretty good in stripes, and would complement AJ and Jones in a serious manner. Moreso than other WR names getting bandied about. Could be that a TE is another option in FA but I see Eifert being the focus next year as it is. Money better spent on a more productive WR.

At DE, a guy that fits the team's pattern of subdued signings could be Adrian Clayborn. He's only 26 and has lots of talent but hasn't had great luck in TB, with their coaching changes as well as injuries. Maybe a fresh start is what he needs.

Obviously so much of this can change if Hue ends up leaving to be a HC. I doubt he gets hired away, so I'll assume he stays unless otherwise occurs.

I respect your opinion king, and don't think there is anything wrong with that, but for me, just me, my opinion only, I like to jockey things for a perspective of what, if anything, we DO know they will do or not do.

For example, we know that Marvin and Dalton are here until at least through 2015. For me, and only me, (don't want anyone wigging out) it's pointless to talk about getting a new coach and QB, and who would those choices be. What QBs are coaches are on the market etc. etc.

I like to try and make points, suggestions, opinions, and what ifs, based upon things that are more probably and possibly doable by this franchise. The cards we know we have, not the ones we hoped to have.

Different strokes. that's all.

[kingwilly]

There are plenty of players out there, but I don't suspect many of them (including Cobb) will actually hit the market.

It is nice to go on about how great it would be to gain their services, but I don't expect it to come to fruition.

I made a comment about them going full stupid last draft and taking a WR early, while naming Benjamin as a possible target.

He has a pretty nice season as a rookie on a crappy team and we certainly could have used him.

I don't know that i'd give up Dennard when looking at things long term, but in the short term, it would have been huge.

I'm left to wonder again if they would consider going that route this coming draft ??

I'm left to further wonder how stupid they could get with it ??

Dorial Green-Beckham anyone ?? ^_^/>

EDIT: There was no, ducking while things are thrown, smilie...

It's funny you mention that because I recall that suggestion and with their commitment to Andy, they "knew" he needed weapons. The real justification for Dennard would have been to cut Hall, and plow that cash back into keeping Johnson.

I think with Hue coming in as OC, their focus on a more run focused scheme with Hill froze out the idea of bolstering the WR group, then needing to go after a guy on the street like Little when the group gets thin. ugh.

All the while, the window closes just a bit more. Guys like Hall, Whit, Pacman, Peko slide further down in ability, and contracts of guys considered "key" end up over, like MJ last year, and Gresham this year. The young core group of Burfict, Andy, Moobs, Green, Gio, Hill, Zeitler, Jones, Sanu, Eifert, Dennard, and DreKirk gives enough hope of progress. The question marks of Hunt, Clarke, Still Thompson, Lamur, Boling, weakness in depth at LB and WR are concerning.

[kingwilly]

I think the only thing worth talking about is what they "should" do, or opinions on it.

The two areas they need immediate help are WR and DE. I think FA is the place to address these spots.

At WR, one guy I just realized that is a FA is Randall Cobb. I think he'd look pretty good in stripes, and would complement AJ and Jones in a serious manner. Moreso than other WR names getting bandied about. Could be that a TE is another option in FA but I see Eifert being the focus next year as it is. Money better spent on a more productive WR.

At DE, a guy that fits the team's pattern of subdued signings could be Adrian Clayborn. He's only 26 and has lots of talent but hasn't had great luck in TB, with their coaching changes as well as injuries. Maybe a fresh start is what he needs.

Obviously so much of this can change if Hue ends up leaving to be a HC. I doubt he gets hired away, so I'll assume he stays unless otherwise occurs.

I respect your opinion king, and don't think there is anything wrong with that, but for me, just me, my opinion only, I like to jockey things for a perspective of what, if anything, we DO know they will do or not do.

For example, we know that Marvin and Dalton are here until at least through 2015. For me, and only me, (don't want anyone wigging out) it's pointless to talk about getting a new coach and QB, and who would those choices be. What QBs are coaches are on the market etc. etc.

I like to try and make points, suggestions, opinions, and what ifs, based upon things that are more probably and possibly doable by this franchise. The cards we know we have, not the ones we hoped to have.

Different strokes. that's all.

Yeah, I understand and am not the guy calling for Marvin's head today (though I have in the past). And I'm also not the guy suggesting they mortgage the draft to move up for Mariota.

My thoughts on the FA market may be slightly outside the normal comfort zone but they are not unheard of moves, considering their efforts to sign somehwat big name wideouts and/or D-lineman.

So, I'm not sure what you are asking. is there a question?

[gregcook68]

I think the only thing worth talking about is what they "should" do, or opinions on it.

The two areas they need immediate help are WR and DE. I think FA is the place to address these spots.

At WR, one guy I just realized that is a FA is Randall Cobb. I think he'd look pretty good in stripes, and would complement AJ and Jones in a serious manner. Moreso than other WR names getting bandied about. Could be that a TE is another option in FA but I see Eifert being the focus next year as it is. Money better spent on a more productive WR.

At DE, a guy that fits the team's pattern of subdued signings could be Adrian Clayborn. He's only 26 and has lots of talent but hasn't had great luck in TB, with their coaching changes as well as injuries. Maybe a fresh start is what he needs.

Obviously so much of this can change if Hue ends up leaving to be a HC. I doubt he gets hired away, so I'll assume he stays unless otherwise occurs.

I respect your opinion king, and don't think there is anything wrong with that, but for me, just me, my opinion only, I like to jockey things for a perspective of what, if anything, we DO know they will do or not do.

For example, we know that Marvin and Dalton are here until at least through 2015. For me, and only me, (don't want anyone wigging out) it's pointless to talk about getting a new coach and QB, and who would those choices be. What QBs are coaches are on the market etc. etc.

I like to try and make points, suggestions, opinions, and what ifs, based upon things that are more probably and possibly doable by this franchise. The cards we know we have, not the ones we hoped to have.

Different strokes. that's all.

Yeah, I understand and am not the guy calling for Marvin's head today (though I have in the past). And I'm also not the guy suggesting they mortgage the draft to move up for Mariota.

My thoughts on the FA market may be slightly outside the normal comfort zone but they are not unheard of moves, considering their efforts to sign somehwat big name wideouts and/or D-lineman.

So, I'm not sure what you are asking. is there a question?

no question was just responding to topic discussions.

[Walrus]

Let me ask you this and I'm not being rhetorical because I do not know the answer to this.

Have the Bengals ever recently bought a veteran free agent? I know they have gotten free agents that didn't get drafted and I know they've gotten free agents to replace injured players but here they ever drafted and bought a veteran free agent?

How do you mean "bought"? Have they signed a veteran Free Agent? sure. lots of times. They've made some notable FA signings, some have worked out, like Tory James, and some have been a debacle, like Antonio Bryant.

back a ways, they signed the SB MVP, Dexter Jackson to a rather large (overpaid) deal. They signed WR Michael Westbrook, when it was thought he'd come in and make a splash. They also signed Antonio Freeman, Lavernaeus Coles, Bobby Williams.... there've been a bunch.

But they don't go usually get into the big names. Recent flubs to land Shawn Rogers and Dashon Gholson stand out to show the front office getting played.

Okay, so since Lewis, there haven't been any 'big name' FAs signed? I'm just trying to eliminate or add any possibilities of things we know management would do or not do, as far as improving the team.

Not sure what qualifies as "big name", but I can't think of a single Free agent WR or TE we've signed in the last 15 years that has been worth a darn. Antonio Bryant, Terrell Owens, L Coles, Ben Utecht, etc. All total wastes of space.

On the other hand, we've done ok at signing impact linemen. Bobbie Williams, Bryan Robinson, Wallace Gilberry, Tank Johnson, John Thornton, Sam Adams and Antwan Odom. Adams and Odom were kind of injury busts, but the rest were at least decent adds.

At LB and DB we've had a mixed bag with Nate Webster (bust) and Dhani Jones (very solid), and then Ifeanyi Oh-i'm-late and Dexter Jackson (busts) Adam Jones, Terence Newman, Tory James (great).

I'm sure I'm forgetting a some, but those are the FA signings that jump out to me from the Lewis years.

[TJJackson]

Collins benched by Buccaneers
/>http://espn.go.com/blog/tampa-bay-buccaneers/post/_/id/8329/season-in-review-offensive-line

But the worst season of all came from left tackle Anthony Collins. A high-priced signing in free agency, Collins played so badly that he was benched at the end of the season. Center Evan Dietrich-Smith, another free-agent pickup, was better than Collins, but was only average.

I will bet a buck (pun intended) that he will get released either this offseason or next, as his salary is 6 million a year every year for the next 4 years and youcant pay a non starter 6 million a year.

I'm actually thinking next year since he is guaranteed 3M in 2015 and so the cost for Tampa to keep him is only really 3m (6m sal - 3m guar = 3m to keep)

/>http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/anthony-collins/

Honestly, I'd be happy to get him back -- I'd even consider offering Tampa 1.5m cash back to ease the pain of their guarenteed outlay

[ArmyBengal]

Let me ask you this and I'm not being rhetorical because I do not know the answer to this.

Have the Bengals ever recently bought a veteran free agent? I know they have gotten free agents that didn't get drafted and I know they've gotten free agents to replace injured players but here they ever drafted and bought a veteran free agent?

How do you mean "bought"? Have they signed a veteran Free Agent? sure. lots of times. They've made some notable FA signings, some have worked out, like Tory James, and some have been a debacle, like Antonio Bryant.

back a ways, they signed the SB MVP, Dexter Jackson to a rather large (overpaid) deal. They signed WR Michael Westbrook, when it was thought he'd come in and make a splash. They also signed Antonio Freeman, Lavernaeus Coles, Bobby Williams.... there've been a bunch.

But they don't go usually get into the big names. Recent flubs to land Shawn Rogers and Dashon Gholson stand out to show the front office getting played.

Okay, so since Lewis, there haven't been any 'big name' FAs signed? I'm just trying to eliminate or add any possibilities of things we know management would do or not do, as far as improving the team.

Not sure what qualifies as "big name", but I can't think of a single Free agent WR or TE we've signed in the last 15 years that has been worth a darn. Antonio Bryant, Terrell Owens, L Coles, Ben Utecht, etc. All total wastes of space.

On the other hand, we've done ok at signing impact linemen. Bobbie Williams, Bryan Robinson, Wallace Gilberry, Tank Johnson, John Thornton, Sam Adams and Antwan Odom. Adams and Odom were kind of injury busts, but the rest were at least decent adds.

At LB and DB we've had a mixed bag with Nate Webster (bust) and Dhani Jones (very solid), and then Ifeanyi Oh-i'm-late and Dexter Jackson (busts) Adam Jones, Terence Newman, Tory James (great).

I'm sure I'm forgetting a some, but those are the FA signings that jump out to me from the Lewis years.

It wasn't exactly a free agent signing, since it was a trade, but bringing in Reggie Nelson has been pretty great.

[Walrus]

Let me ask you this and I'm not being rhetorical because I do not know the answer to this.

Have the Bengals ever recently bought a veteran free agent? I know they have gotten free agents that didn't get drafted and I know they've gotten free agents to replace injured players but here they ever drafted and bought a veteran free agent?

How do you mean "bought"? Have they signed a veteran Free Agent? sure. lots of times. They've made some notable FA signings, some have worked out, like Tory James, and some have been a debacle, like Antonio Bryant.

back a ways, they signed the SB MVP, Dexter Jackson to a rather large (overpaid) deal. They signed WR Michael Westbrook, when it was thought he'd come in and make a splash. They also signed Antonio Freeman, Lavernaeus Coles, Bobby Williams.... there've been a bunch.

But they don't go usually get into the big names. Recent flubs to land Shawn Rogers and Dashon Gholson stand out to show the front office getting played.

Okay, so since Lewis, there haven't been any 'big name' FAs signed? I'm just trying to eliminate or add any possibilities of things we know management would do or not do, as far as improving the team.

Not sure what qualifies as "big name", but I can't think of a single Free agent WR or TE we've signed in the last 15 years that has been worth a darn. Antonio Bryant, Terrell Owens, L Coles, Ben Utecht, etc. All total wastes of space.

On the other hand, we've done ok at signing impact linemen. Bobbie Williams, Bryan Robinson, Wallace Gilberry, Tank Johnson, John Thornton, Sam Adams and Antwan Odom. Adams and Odom were kind of injury busts, but the rest were at least decent adds.

At LB and DB we've had a mixed bag with Nate Webster (bust) and Dhani Jones (very solid), and then Ifeanyi Oh-i'm-late and Dexter Jackson (busts) Adam Jones, Terence Newman, Tory James (great).

I'm sure I'm forgetting a some, but those are the FA signings that jump out to me from the Lewis years.

It wasn't exactly a free agent signing, since it was a trade, but bringing in Reggie Nelson has been pretty great.

If we're counting trades, we also got Deltha Oneal who gave us a couple great seasons. Palmer to Oakland turned into Kirkpatrick and Bernard. Traded for Brian Leonard, which worked out pretty well. Traded a 7th for Ryan Fitzpatrick, who was decent here before going on to have a great career elsewhere. Who knows - maybe the way to upgrade our pass rush will be with a savvy trade?

[Scottishbengal]

It's a deep draft for DL so if that's how they're inclined finding help shouldn't be an issue.

Any benefit in trading DOWN for maybe an extra 2nd or 3rd pick if the DL options are deep ????

[ArmyBengal]

It's a deep draft for DL so if that's how they're inclined finding help shouldn't be an issue.

Any benefit in trading DOWN for maybe an extra 2nd or 3rd pick if the DL options are deep ????

I was thinking the same thing as I look at not only depth, but which players are expected to be there when they pick.

I know that's a crap shoot here in the beginning of January, but I would be on board with a small drop down to pick up selections.

Then again, i'd be on board with a move up to gain greater (perceived) quality in knowing we should gain some comp picks.

[jjakq27]

I heard they will be selecting 21st in the draft. The last two times they were at that slot they picked Gresham and Eifert.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm left to wonder again if they would consider going that route this coming draft ??

I'm left to further wonder how stupid they could get with it ??

Dorial Green-Beckham anyone ??

EDIT: There was no, ducking while things are thrown, smilie...

Guess who declared for the draft today ??

[HoosierCat]

Well, reading Hobs' latest is mildly depressing. There's the usual "no big FAs because Green" line and stay-the-course mentality. He thinks the 21st pick will be an OT, which is fine but which will also likely provide little to no impact in 2015. Second round is probably dline and there will be a TE in the first four rounds.

[ArmyBengal]

I try not to get too wrapped up in all the talk at this point in time.

There's a long way until free agency and the draft. Even then, you never know who may fall into their lap at #21 and change the plan all together.

Hobson ALWAYS has the same story. It simply never changes from year to year and why I rarely pay much attention to his write ups on that subject.

I read another article that indicated they felt there would be some definite roster churn this offseason and they would be finding a way to fix the problems. Take that how you may, but it had a feel that the organization knows the window is closing and they want to do everything in their power to get over the hump.

What does that mean ?? Roster churn due to guys being free agents and/or retiring ?? Letting guys go that haven't been producing ?? Being active in free agency to improve the roster ?? Looking at specifics (pass rush) to address heavily in the draft ?? I suspect a little of each and while I find that particular discussion from Hobson very dull, I am intrigued in seeing how it gets addressed.

[HoosierCat]

What does that mean ??

Army, my understanding is that "Roster Churn" is a new brand of butter the Bengals will be marketing this spring. Made by some of your favorite players, Roster Churn is ideal for baking as it melts evenly at even low temperatures, and retains its softness even when refrigerated for quick flattening under pressure.

[ArmyBengal]

What does that mean ??

Army, my understanding is that "Roster Churn" is a new brand of butter the Bengals will be marketing this spring. Made by some of your favorite players, Roster Churn is ideal for baking as it melts evenly at even low temperatures, and retains its softness even when refrigerated for quick flattening under pressure.

Nice spin there. I like that.

So you are either feeling especially clever today or it's a slow day at work.

Maybe both ??

[cincyhokie]

Well, reading Hobs' latest is mildly depressing. There's the usual "no big FAs because Green" line and stay-the-course mentality. He thinks the 21st pick will be an OT, which is fine but which will also likely provide little to no impact in 2015. Second round is probably dline and there will be a TE in the first four rounds.

This is where the Bengals have problems. They do an EXCELLENT job drafting and building the roster.

However, as the main part of the roster begins to degenerate, there aren't the players, or a hesitancy, to immediately fill the need. It's like the minor leagues for baseball. However, this is a WIN NOW league.

Sure, building continuity and some level of success, as we have seen, but if you want to get OVER the hump you have to use FA to plug in holes. I think the Bengals have raised themselves to a level where being active in FA IS A GOOD IDEA. I didn't use to be too sold on it, but I think they're good enough now that they very are 1-2 players away from being top level.

If this team uses the draft, with no FA activity, to help the holes on the team, it's simply not going to work. This team can't wait another 3 years for the next Dre Kirpatrick to show their worth.

[TJJackson]

The best tactic with FA in the long term is to use free agency heavily in one year, and not at all in others

This tactic helps you win the Comp Picks Game, like we did in 2014, and will see the benefit thereof in a few months here

[cincyhokie]

The best tactic with FA in the long term is to use free agency heavily in one year, and not at all in others

This tactic helps you win the Comp Picks Game, like we did in 2014, and will see the benefit thereof in a few months here

I think it's especially smart to use it in a year where the team is:

looking to get over a hump

is good enough to take their play to the next level

has a coach and QB with contracts coming up for renewal

has an exorbitant amount of cap space

[ArmyBengal]

The best tactic with FA in the long term is to use free agency heavily in one year, and not at all in others

This tactic helps you win the Comp Picks Game, like we did in 2014, and will see the benefit thereof in a few months here

Yeah, i'm anxiously awaiting what that's going to look like.

I've heard as much as a 3rd and 4th, but that might be overshooting it a bit.

If that were to happen, I would go crazy.

Use free agency to fill some holes and use your regular picks in the 3rd and 4th to move up (since you can't trade comp picks), knowing you will still have a pick in both of those rounds. Hell, being creative in any way would be a real plus in that regard.

[HoosierCat]

it's a slow day at work.

Slow week. It's going to get busy in a hurry soon, tho.

Re free agency, I agree that this is the year to bust the proverbial move. Go get a veteran pass-catcher, WR or TE I don't care, and a top vet DE. Maybe get both a TE and WR since at the latter you're looking for a reliable No. 2, not a No. 1. Keep Winston around (he'd be cheap) and you might even risk putting off OT to next year and taking an impact guy at 21 instead. Think DT or LB.

Won't happen but I can always dream...

[skyline]

it's a slow day at work.

Slow week. It's going to get busy in a hurry soon, tho.

Re free agency, I agree that this is the year to bust the proverbial move. Go get a veteran pass-catcher, WR or TE I don't care, and a top vet DE. Maybe get both a TE and WR since at the latter you're looking for a reliable No. 2, not a No. 1. Keep Winston around (he'd be cheap) and you might even risk putting off OT to next year and taking an impact guy at 21 instead. Think DT or LB.

Won't happen but I can always dream...

*cough* larryfitzgerald *cough*

[ArmyBengal]

We can always dream Skyline, we can always dream.

[HoosierCat]

it's a slow day at work.

Slow week. It's going to get busy in a hurry soon, tho.

Re free agency, I agree that this is the year to bust the proverbial move. Go get a veteran pass-catcher, WR or TE I don't care, and a top vet DE. Maybe get both a TE and WR since at the latter you're looking for a reliable No. 2, not a No. 1. Keep Winston around (he'd be cheap) and you might even risk putting off OT to next year and taking an impact guy at 21 instead. Think DT or LB.

Won't happen but I can always dream...

*cough* larryfitzgerald *cough*

In his column Hobs specifically said no Larry because we have to pay Green. Insert sad trombone sound here.