gregcook68 Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 Sammy Watkins, who played high school football here at South Fort Myers High, just signed for a total of $31 million over 4 years!Well done Sammy!It still boggles my mind how 78% of these guys can go bankrupt after retirement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 It is not true that 78% go bankrupt. Bankruptcy is a very specific term. It means you've filed a specific action in a special federal court seeking to be relieved of your debts.The 78% number that you repeatedly cite comes from an SI story that stated,"By the time they have been retired for two years, 78% of former NFL players have gone bankrupt or are under financial stress because of joblessness or divorce."Bankrupt is one thing, experiencing "financial stress" however that is defined, is something completely different. In fact, when financial distress is the threshold, I'm surprised the figure isn't 100%. Guys go from making millions for a few years to making nothing overnight. Financial stress is inevitable.I just read that SI story, and how that 78% figure is determined is never explained. The story simply says, "reports from a host of sources (athletes, players' associations, agents and financial advisers) indicate that:"That is the sum total of the explanation of how the author arrived at that number. Seems like he relied on anecdotal evidence and there was no actual study done using any true pool of data or statistically legitimate analysis of that data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregcook68 Posted May 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 Seems to me the bottom line COB, is you basically have kids who really haven't had a chance to learn how to be financially responsible or don't care.I believe I read where Dan Marino was one of the 78%/>http://www.munknee.com/78-of-nfl-players-go-bankrupt-within-5-years//>http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Why-do-so-many-NFL-players-go-bankrupt-?urn=nfl,190555/>http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2012/10/02/162162226/espns-broke-looks-at-the-many-ways-athletes-lose-their-money/>http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/02/03/life-after-sports-why-nfl-players-go-broke//>http://www.gobankingrates.com/debt/dan-marino-vince-young-broke-nfl-players-lost-fortunes/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregcook68 Posted May 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 An interesting sidebar to the Sammy Watkins story, he has an older cousin, I believe they are cousins, named Tommy Watkins Jr, who played baseball here locally, and is now coaching college baseball somewhere. I played softball with Tommy's father, Tommy Sr, who played AAA baseball, second base, for the Reds, but did so, when Joe Morgan was on the team.Needless to say, Tommy never got a shot at the Show! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 Seems to me the bottom line COB, is you basically have kids who really haven't had a chance to learn how to be financially responsible or don't care.Wrong. The bottom line is you keep citing 78% like it is real. I explained to you that the figure has nothing behind it, no support other than the vague statement SI made in the article about talking to players and agents. The 5 articles you cited above - 4 of them cite the original SI article as their source. The 5th, munknee, doesn't cite any support, they just repeat the 78% and the 60% number the SI article gave regarding NBA players, as if it is gospel. 78% is a made up number. I've searched and there is no science or study behind it. No statistical analysis or study at all. "Financial stress" is a made up, subjective threshold that is not explained or described in any way in the original article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregcook68 Posted May 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 I'm not going to debate the number.You responded to my bottom line response, which had nothing to do with the number. It addressed the reasons why they are having financial problems, 'stress', bankruptcy, regardless of what the percentage is.If money is managed correctly, even if Watkins only clears 10 million after agent fees, taxes, etc, and only plays those 4 years and retires, he could live comfortably on that money for the rest of his life if the money us managed responsibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregcook68 Posted May 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 BTW, I'm very confident, if Sammy was raised like his cousin was, he won't be one of those with financial problems regardless of what percentage someone wants to come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 Well, according to the American Bankruptcy Institute, bankruptcy filings per capita in 2013 were 3.33 per 1,000 people. I'm gonna wager that number wouldn't be 780 out of 1,000 for NFL players. COB is almost certainly right that actual bankruptcy is much lower, though I would not at all be surprised if it were significantly higher than average.OTOH, adding "financial stress" to the mix makes the 78% number seem reasonable. One survey from last year found that 83% of employees reported at least some financial stress. Those numbers are close enough that I would hesitate to call SI's figure made up. However, it also suggests that retired NFL players aren't in general any worse off than most of us regular schlubs.In short, SI's report is much ado about nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 Depending on how "Financial Stress" is defined, I would wager almost everyone had or has financial stress going on in their lives.If it weren't for my military retirement and the benefits that come along with that, I would be stressed the f*ck out on a daily.I don't know how some families are even making it these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregcook68 Posted May 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 Well, according to the American Bankruptcy Institute, bankruptcy filings per capita in 2013 were 3.33 per 1,000 people. I'm gonna wager that number wouldn't be 780 out of 1,000 for NFL players. COB is almost certainly right that actual bankruptcy is much lower, though I would not at all be surprised if it were significantly higher than average.OTOH, adding "financial stress" to the mix makes the 78% number seem reasonable. One survey from last year found that 83% of employees reported at least some financial stress. Those numbers are close enough that I would hesitate to call SI's figure made up. However, it also suggests that retired NFL players aren't in general any worse off than most of us regular schlubs.In short, SI's report is much ado about nothing.Again, look at the reasons the articles point to as to WHY they are broke. Overspending, lack of knowledge of financial planning, hanging with the wrong crowd, etc.Take away those things and there's no reason the scenario I described above with Watkins could not hold true for the majority. (No percentage number given here, just majority ..... 51% or more). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregcook68 Posted May 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 Depending on how "Financial Stress" is defined, I would wager almost everyone had or has financial stress going on in their lives.If it weren't for my military retirement and the benefits that come along with that, I would be stressed the f*ck out on a daily.I don't know how some families are even making it these days.Nobody put 10 million, after taxes, in your bank account either, at age 25. Did you know enought back then NOT to pis it away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 Depending on how "Financial Stress" is defined, I would wager almost everyone had or has financial stress going on in their lives.If it weren't for my military retirement and the benefits that come along with that, I would be stressed the f*ck out on a daily.I don't know how some families are even making it these days.You don't like trading minimum wage service jobs for the manufacturing jobs we lost? I'll tell you how some families are making it. They aren't making it. I go to Detroit for business, and it's dystopian nightmare. James McMurtry, son of Larry McMurtry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 I'm not going to debate the number.We already debated it, you got steamrolled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregcook68 Posted May 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 I'm not going to debate the number.We already debated it, you got steamrolled.We? lol You and HoosierCat? Please!And he wasn't even on board with all you said. Call SI. It's their article and research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 Take away those things and there's no reason the scenario I described above with Watkins could not hold true for the majority. (No percentage number given here, just majority ..... 51% or more).The problem is that the majority of players aren't going to get as much or last as long as Sammy Watkins. The average NFL career is three years. Most guys bum around the league for a short time earning a lot closer to the NFL minimum. Still good money, but that $1.5-2 million you make (and that's gross, not post-Uncle Sam) before you wash out after year three or four is hardly set-for-life money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregcook68 Posted May 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 Take away those things and there's no reason the scenario I described above with Watkins could not hold true for the majority. (No percentage number given here, just majority ..... 51% or more).The problem is that the majority of players aren't going to get as much or last as long as Sammy Watkins. The average NFL career is three years. Most guys bum around the league for a short time earning a lot closer to the NFL minimum. Still good money, but that $1.5-2 million you make (and that's gross, not post-Uncle Sam) before you wash out after year three or four is hardly set-for-life money.Using those stats Cat, that would seem to support a number closer to the SI article and the 5 articles I linked!The whole point of my post was about the local kid Watkins, getting a nice pay day! NOT the 78% number, which, BTW, isn't a number I made up! It's a number that is used in 6 different links that I've posted.I've given my research as to where I came up with the number, but you nor COB have given anything but opinion, that factually states that the number is wrong, or made up!COB has made up his mind, that he is determined to pick apart any part of a post that I make, regardless of whether it is the main point or not, or whether it is something I 'made up', or referenced. That's one of those immature things a child would do! He's arrogant and shares proud father moments about his daughter swearing in an essay! Good luck with that Cobbie.I've tried to honor yours and Army's request to stop the back and forth with no success, so I'll do the next best thing.Congrats Cobbie, you are the first and only member of my 'Ignore' List!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 The whole point of my post was about the local kid Watkins, getting a nice pay day! NOT the 78% number, which, BTW, isn't a number I made up! Let's revisit the post at the start of this thread, shall we?Sammy Watkins, who played high school football here at South Fort Myers High, just signed for a total of $31 million over 4 years!Well done Sammy!It still boggles my mind how 78% of these guys can go bankrupt after retirement! In response, I told you why "these guys" go bankrupt, because only a tiny fraction get big money.As for the 78% number I actually posted a link SUPPORTING it, skippy. Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 In response, I told you why "these guys" go bankrupt, because only a tiny fraction get big money.even a player who only earns the first year salary after taxes can (and ergo should) get by for years just on that money, even if the (now former) player doesn't get himself a real world job for that same period 400k or so? On a middle of the road 40k salary, your typical wage earner needs 10 years to earn that kind of coin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsbengalsbucks Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 Depending on how "Financial Stress" is defined, I would wager almost everyone had or has financial stress going on in their lives.If it weren't for my military retirement and the benefits that come along with that, I would be stressed the f*ck out on a daily.I don't know how some families are even making it these days.Second that. My place of employment recently gave me a $0.50/hr raise, first raise in over 6 years and expected me to be jump up and down happy. My response was thanks but I'm still waiting for my other five raises that were promised yearly when I was hired. They did not like that much, considering everyone else in the meeting jumped right behind me. The last 6 years has been very hard for my family to keep up with all the rising costs while my pay continues to go down because of more taxes/insurance cost increases and every dollar is worth less because of inflation. I assume that there are many families that are in financial stress, I can't believe most people can even afford to live the way things have progressed as of late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsbengalsbucks Posted May 29, 2014 Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 In response, I told you why "these guys" go bankrupt, because only a tiny fraction get big money.even a player who only earns the first year salary after taxes can (and ergo should) get by for years just on that money, even if the (now former) player doesn't get himself a real world job for that same period 400k or so? On a middle of the road 40k salary, your typical wage earner needs 10 years to earn that kind of coinHeck yes, I would take a one year payroll of $400,000 and turn my situation completely around with it. It definitely would not cause me to go into debt farther. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregcook68 Posted May 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 In response, I told you why "these guys" go bankrupt, because only a tiny fraction get big money.even a player who only earns the first year salary after taxes can (and ergo should) get by for years just on that money, even if the (now former) player doesn't get himself a real world job for that same period 400k or so? On a middle of the road 40k salary, your typical wage earner needs 10 years to earn that kind of coinHeck yes, I would take a one year payroll of $400,000 and turn my situation completely around with it. It definitely would not cause me to go into debt farther.That's just it! Like many of the links I referenced, they do not know how to manage the money they are making. For those that have been forced to live within their means and have had to learn how to manage money, on $50K a year, a couple million, even over a few yesrs, after fees and taxes, should last a lifetime, unless you have a huge family.They're supposed to have college degrees. Get a job after retirement if need be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrus Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Congrats Cobbie, you are the first and only member of my 'Ignore' List!!Meh. Your loss. Without a doubt, COB writes some of the best stuff on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Congrats Cobbie, you are the first and only member of my 'Ignore' List!!Meh. Your loss. Without a doubt, COB writes some of the best stuff on this forum.well, they are at opposite ends of the "stuff" spectrum, after all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregcook68 Posted May 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 It's all good! :sure:/> Nothing that goes on in here will change my fan status or how the Bengals will do this year, :bengal:/> regardless of the 'posting intellect'. :nopity:/> :beatdeadhorse:/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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