What Does Dalton Need to Do to Get Paid?

[HoosierCat]

So in the Great Dalton Debate, the most popular position appears to be to let him play out 2014 under his existing contract, then pay him -- or not -- depending on how he does this season. So I wondered if there was a consensus on what needed to happen in order for him to be rewarded with a big-money deal.

I also included options in the poll for those (like me) who want to pay him now and those who would rather the Bengals move on ASAP.

[ArmyBengal]

What does Dalton need to do to get paid ??

The same thing he's done to this point in time. Honestly, not even that.

He could have a big set back in 2014 and he's still going to get paid by either the Bengals or some other team.

QB's get paid regardless. No one has to like it, it's just the way it is.

For me personally, I don't really care one way or another. It could get done now, during the season, or after.

The reason I say I don't care is because one way or another Dalton is going to be the starter in Cincinnati for years to come.

I guess I would rather they wait to see what happens in 2014 and then go from there, but again, I don't think it matters in their eyes.

In all honesty, it doesn't matter in my eyes either as i'm good with him as the Bengals starter.

Pay him now would be the best financial move considering how I view the situation.

[gregcook68]

Get Mike Brown to agree with Lewis and start negotiations! If they haven't already started.

[COB]

What does Dalton need to do to get paid?

If he expects the big money his agent is hinting at, and he wants it before this season - Invent a time machine, travel back 3 years and cease and desist turning into a fainting nancy in big games and playoff games.

If he expects the big money his agent is hinting at, and he wants it after this season - Just be consistent. If he plays consistently well, and they miss the playoffs, he can still get paid. If he engages in the same roller-coaster thing where he's great for a couple weeks, then Pittsburgh comes to town for a nationally televised night game and he barfs all over himself, it won't matter what his stats are like. His reputation as a guy who is too weak-minded for the spotlight will be cemented. Then I think he'll go elsewhere.

If he is willing to accept the recent deal the Bengals sent him, which I suspect is probably way below his asking price, he could just sign right now and likely be handed the starting spot with no competition. If he doesn't sign, I suspect they'll let McCarron compete in camp, and if he shows well they may then pressure Andy to sign. If Andy refuses to sign then, I don't know what will happen.

Should the Bengals just let Andy play the whole year, knowing he could just be building his resume for what will essentially be an open auction that the Bengals probably won't win? Or will they try to protect themselves by moving on to the new kid? I don't know. I know what would have happened 15 years ago. Things have changed now.

[skyline]

According to reports, the Bengals just sent Dalton a pretty serious contract offer.

So, to answer your question:

It appears as if whatever Andy "needs" to do to get paid, he already HAS done.

[gregcook68]

According to reports, the Bengals just sent Dalton a pretty serious contract offer.

So, to answer your question:

It appears as if whatever Andy "needs" to do to get paid, he already HAS done.

+1. It will get done soon and he will get close to what he wants.

I've never seen Marvin not have his way yet with Brown on anything he's made public.

My only question is how often do players get no trade clauses in the contracts in football? I know it's common in baseball.

[HoosierCat]

According to reports, the Bengals just sent Dalton a pretty serious contract offer.

What we have is Lapham saying the Bengals have a "significant" offer on the table. But we've no idea what the Bengals consider "significant."

But I agree with you, Dalton has done enough to get a market-level deal. My question is addressed to those who believe the Bengals ought to wait and see what he does in 2014 before committing to Dalton long-term.

[ArmyBengal]

What I find amusing and have seen written numerous times on other boards (shhhhhh) is how fans think it would be so simple to just grab any QB, plug him into our offense and expect the playoffs with little to no thought. It's f*cking comical to think it's that easy.

Lapham always seems to have a pretty good feel for what the team is doing, but yeah, define "significant".

[gregcook68]

What I find amusing and have seen written numerous times on other boards (shhhhhh) is how fans think it would be so simple to just grab any QB, plug him into our offense and expect the playoffs with little to no thought. It's f*cking comical to think it's that easy.

Lapham always seems to have a pretty good feel for what the team is doing, but yeah, define "significant".

Lap should know the market. Gotta believe significant means in the ballpark.

[kingwilly]

Back to the market price, here are the 2014 simplified numbers on guys who I think he is comparing himself to:

Romo - $18M/yr

Flacco - $20M/yr

Cutler - $18.1M/yr

Stafford - $17.6M/yr

Ryan - $20.75M/yr

Bradford - $13M/yr

Avg is $17.6M/yr or thereabouts.

/>http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries.php?Position=QB

The spread from Romo to Brady is $18M/yr down to $11M/yr. Lots of players in there that have big signing bonuses, so I'm not going to muddy it up with all of that.

On of the points here is that just because some teams are willing to OVERPAY for guys like Stafford or Cutler, that's not a reason to sink huge money into Dalton. Also, just becasue Dalton has some "records" to cite, those do not equate with being in the same ability level or Manning, Brees, Rogers, etc.

And for those who really think there are lots of teams who would break the bank to go get Andy Dalton, I only point to guys like Dilfer, Sanchez and Brad Johnson, guys who won big games, (even SBs) who did not end up with the mega buck contracts, as they were known to be only avg (at best) QBs.

I point to the deal the Bills gave Ryan Fitzpatrick. <shudder> that's an example of what not to do.

To the question: What does he have to do to get the big $ deal? He needs to progress, win big games, and win in the playoffs.

Next Question: absent that (meaning back to reality), and knowing Dalton's limitations, how comfortable are you giving $90-100M to Dalton for the next 5-6 years?

[HoosierCat]

Next Question: absent that (meaning back to reality), and knowing Dalton's limitations, how comfortable are you giving $90-100M to Dalton for the next 5-6 years?

Perfectly comfortable, depending on structure. That's the real question, not the size of the deal. I would use Cutler's deal as a template. All the guaranteed money in his deal, $54 million, is in the form of salary in the first three years. The remaining $73 million is money he will only see if the Bears feel he is worth it. Starting in year two they actually gain a small amount of cap space if they cut him and starting in year four they can cut him with no dead money whatsoever.

[ArmyBengal]

That's where I am as well Hoosier and thanks for beating me to the punch.

I don't really think the dollar amount is as important as the way the front office structures that money.

There are ways they can put it all together that makes it easier for the team to move on and makes the player happy with up front money.

Dalton isn't getting 20 million per season, but for someone to think he should get paid 5 million per season is laughable.

That's Matt Cassel money.

[kingwilly]

Next Question: absent that (meaning back to reality), and knowing Dalton's limitations, how comfortable are you giving $90-100M to Dalton for the next 5-6 years?

Perfectly comfortable, depending on structure. That's the real question, not the size of the deal. I would use Cutler's deal as a template. All the guaranteed money in his deal, $54 million, is in the form of salary in the first three years. The remaining $73 million is money he will only see if the Bears feel he is worth it. Starting in year two they actually gain a small amount of cap space if they cut him and starting in year four they can cut him with no dead money whatsoever.

So, essentially you are comfortable giving Dalton something like a $15M signing bonus, plus $15M/yr for 3 years, before the contract escalates into no man's land?

Which is basically $20M/year... most of which is guaranteed for the first two. I don't think Dalton is worth $40M for two years. no way.

If you slice it down, $10M, plus $12M/y, the deal is worth short of $50M for those three. Hard to think Dalton's agents will agree to that as fair market value. I would think that is the ceiling, based on his performances.

[COB]

Next Question: absent that (meaning back to reality), and knowing Dalton's limitations, how comfortable are you giving $90-100M to Dalton for the next 5-6 years?

Not at all comfortable with it, and I assume the Bengals aren't comfortable with it either or it would be done already. Front-loading the cap hit isn't good enough for me. This football team is built for now. If they let Dalton grotesquely choke away two more post-seasons, I am afraid that will be it, the window will be closed.

I think they want him moderately priced now, or he's competing for his job in August. I'm hoping for the latter because I have no faith whatsoever in that shrink to fix him. I suppose you could put your hope in modern psychiatry. I want evidence. It is well-known that I have a brain that brings with it the computing power of 5000 Casio watches, and this brain wants evidence. If there is no evidence, I'm going with Katherine Webb's tits every time.

[skyline]

It seems like a contract with escalators is the way to go.

Bonus for making the playoffs and another bonus for winning playoff games.

[COB]

While I'm wasting time at work laying down shock and awe to educate you all on the intricacies of getting a quarterback who has a 10+ for a girlfriend, my 8th grader is texting me from her class trip to Gettysburg.

I bring that up because I had to talk to her history teacher on the phone two weeks ago about an in-class assignment my daughter aced (though the teacher wasn't on board with that interpretation and told me she had to redo it and to no longer use profanity).

They were learning about the civil war. The assignment was to imagine what the first entry in Lincoln's journal would be on April 12th, 1861, the day the Confederacy started shelling Fort Sumter.

My daughter's succinct answer, written in her very neat handwriting: "Shit just got real."

[gregcook68]

While I'm wasting time at work laying down shock and awe to educate you all on the intricacies of getting a quarterback who has a 10+ for a girlfriend, my 8th grader is texting me from her class trip to Gettysburg.

I bring that up because I had to talk to her history teacher on the phone two weeks ago about an in-class assignment my daughter aced (though the teacher wasn't on board with that interpretation and told me she had to redo it and to no longer use profanity).

They were learning about the civil war. The assignment was to imagine what the first entry in Lincoln's journal would be on April 12th, 1861, the day the Confederacy started shelling Fort Sumter.

My daughter's succinct answer, written in her very neat handwriting: "Shit just got real."

It's great when you can be proud of your children as they grow up! Love that proud father feeling!

As far the first part, I still don't understand why you're not making the big money as a head coach somewhere, even at the college level??

[TJJackson]

I still don't understand why you're not making the big money as a head coach somewhere, even at the college level??

The rest of us still dont understand why all of your comments seem to fall into 1 of 2 categories

1) "I have no opinion, yet I feel the need to type out that i have no opinion"

2) Feeble attempts to get a rise out of COB

[gregcook68]

I still don't understand why you're not making the big money as a head coach somewhere, even at the college level??

The rest of us still dont understand why all of your comments seem to fall into 1 of 2 categories

1) "I have no opinion, yet I feel the need to type out that i have no opinion"

2) Feeble attempts to get a rise out of COB

It appears that I'm now able to get a rise out of you!!

Gosh I love this place!! :sure:/>/>

Check the 2014 Prediction thread. Plenty of opinion there JR.

Don't mess with COB! Him and I are homeboys! We all could learn a lot from my boy!

[HoosierCat]

So, essentially you are comfortable giving Dalton something like a $15M signing bonus, plus $15M/yr for 3 years, before the contract escalates into no man's land?

Which is basically $20M/year... most of which is guaranteed for the first two. I don't think Dalton is worth $40M for two years. no way.

If you slice it down, $10M, plus $12M/y, the deal is worth short of $50M for those three. Hard to think Dalton's agents will agree to that as fair market value. I would think that is the ceiling, based on his performances.

Hmmm. I believe this is the point in the annual discussion of things like this where I start talking about how what a guy is worth is what the market says it is and that the issue is how much the Bengals are willing to spend. Then I think I usually get into the issue of how all the semantics are borked because we really aren't talking about the Bengals paying Dalton, just how much of the players' half of total league revenues they stick in his basket. And then finally someone chimes in about how sick they are of millionaires and billionaires fighting over a giant mountain of money.

So I'll just skip all that and say I really don't care how much money Dalton gets. I'd just like to see him signed.

[TJJackson]

It appears that I'm now able to get a rise out of you!!

Gosh I love this place!! :sure:/>/>/>

Check the 2014 Prediction thread. Plenty of opinion there JR.

Don't mess with COB! Him and I are homeboys! We all could learn a lot from my boy!

You aren't targeting me, so no.

Just wondering why you are here at all when you basically have nothing to say about the Bengals

I get bashed frequently for having an (perceived) overly negative opinion, but at least I have an opinion

[gregcook68]

It appears that I'm now able to get a rise out of you!!

Gosh I love this place!! :sure:/>/>/>/>/>

Check the 2014 Prediction thread. Plenty of opinion there JR.

Don't mess with COB! Him and I are homeboys! We all could learn a lot from my boy!

You aren't targeting me, so no.

Just wondering why you are here at all when you basically have nothing to say about the Bengals

I get bashed frequently for having an (perceived) overly negative opinion, but at least I have an opinion

You took time to respond. I'd call that a rise.

Did you miss the part where I said to check out the 2014 Prediction thread?

Just looked at Bleacher Report. Their post draft predictions:

Steelers 10-6

Ravens 9-7

Browns 9-7

Bengals 7-9

[kingwilly]

So, essentially you are comfortable giving Dalton something like a $15M signing bonus, plus $15M/yr for 3 years, before the contract escalates into no man's land?

Which is basically $20M/year... most of which is guaranteed for the first two. I don't think Dalton is worth $40M for two years. no way.

If you slice it down, $10M, plus $12M/y, the deal is worth short of $50M for those three. Hard to think Dalton's agents will agree to that as fair market value. I would think that is the ceiling, based on his performances.

Hmmm. I believe this is the point in the annual discussion of things like this where I start talking about how what a guy is worth is what the market says it is and that the issue is how much the Bengals are willing to spend. Then I think I usually get into the issue of how all the semantics are borked because we really aren't talking about the Bengals paying Dalton, just how much of the players' half of total league revenues they stick in his basket. And then finally someone chimes in about how sick they are of millionaires and billionaires fighting over a giant mountain of money.

So I'll just skip all that :)/> and say I really don't care how much money Dalton gets. I'd just like to see him signed.

Fair enough. That's why I'm aiming at a narrower set of variables.

I want him to get his 4th bite at the apple, but not at the expense of a 5th, 6th and 7th bite.

But that's cool.

[TJJackson]

You took time to respond. I'd call that a rise.

I have thousands of responses recorded on this messageboard.

They all took time.

No one but you considers them all (or any of them, for that matter) "rises"

[gregcook68]

You took time to respond. I'd call that a rise.

I have thousands of responses recorded on this messageboard.

They all took time.

No one but you considers them all (or any of them, for that matter) "rises"

No matter. I see you already weighed in with a prediction of 7-9. What do you think about Bleacher Report's post draft predictions, having the Bengals in last with your 7-9 prediction?