5th Round: A.J. McCarron, QB, Alabama

[Walrus]

What baffles me is hearing fans think that somehow McCarron is going to replace Dalton this season.

The ONLY way Dalton gets shelved for McCarron is if an injury occurs. That's it.

Does anyone really think the intent was to draft a QB to replace Dalton only to watch the team pass up all the top end (I say that lightly) QB's ??

Yeah, lets pass on Bridgewater in the hopes of drafting McCarron in the 5th round to replace the guy that has done things no other QB in franchise history has done. Wow, great plan. Smells like a championship to me.

I'm no worse off now than I was before the draft in regards to the QB spot.

What I am, is hopeful the team waits until after the season to extend Dalton, but i'm not as irritated with Dalton as some are.

AGAIN, that doesn't mean that he's the bestest ever or has no room to improve, because he does. I just don't view him as Akili Smith.

Agree 100%. I'm still optimistic about Dalton. I like him - just not quite so optimistic that I think they should sign him before the season! Can't remember who said it, but someone said McCarron (and other QBs of his ilk) are drafted as a lottery ticket. He could develop into a reliable backup or flash in preseason to the point where we could trade him down the road for draft picks (like Schaub, Cassel, Kolb, etc). And there's the tiniest chance that he could become the starter for the Bengals someday, but that's probably the least likely scenerio.

[HoosierCat]

The underlying point is they will NOT be opening up the QB spot to competition. It's Dalton's job. The question then centers on why they think Dalton shouldn't face real competition, and why they should extend him for massive money while options that might actually be better are now in the fold?

Because they don't know what the f*** they are doing. The organization is paralyzed. It can't make a decision whether to extend Dalton or not and the result is the half-assed offseason we've seen. Drafting McCarron is just another attempt to square a circle and avoid making the tough decisions.

It's time to make some noise!! I say we bring back the 90s and picket at the stadium!!! Heck even I'm qualified to carry a sign!!

I think you've actually hit on a big part of the problem: noise. Or more broadly, passion.

I do and do not believe Hue when he says that the McCarron pick isn't about Andy. I do believe it's not about Dalton's play on the field. However, I DO believe it was due in significant part to the fact that the Dalton-led Bengals are struggling to sell tickets, even to playoff games. Forget playoff wins, does Mike Brown want to give $20 million a year to a QB who can't put butts in the seats? Even when he IS winning?

Remember, Mike has always been of the opinion that what fans want is scoring. Lots of exciting big plays on offense, all driven by a big, cannon-armed QB. And that winning doesn't count as much as that. The Dalton experience is validating all of that. MCCarron isn't quite that mold, but he is a cocky championship winner; he has that much of Boomer in him.

It's already apparent that AJ has generated passion among the fans. Given the choice between a boring Dalton who just wins and an exciting AJ who may or may not win but will fill PBS, which way Mike will jump is obvious.

[ArmyBengal]

Then I see the question being, does Campbell fill seats in PBS ?? Why worry about McCarron ??

[Walrus]

Then I see the question being, does Campbell fill seats in PBS ?? Why worry about McCarron ??

Yeah, are you talking about 2015 ticket sales, Hoosier? If so, that would be a massive long shot. I'm not buying that McCarron or any other QB drafted after round 2 would put butts in seats. Heck, if that were the concern, Hyde would have been a far better option than than Hill. If McCarron was who they really liked as a starting QB, they would have taken him in the first or second. They didn't.

[cincyhokie]

Somebody mentioned it earlier. McCarron gives the Bengals leverage if they believe he can do what Dalton can do. Manage the offense, not turn it over, and hand the ball off.

I agree, as well, that McCarron has a cockiness and confidence to him that Dalton does not have. Dalton is competitive, no doubt. It's just that he mentally shrinks up in big time games against tough opponents. But he was seeing Brady's shrink this offseason, so there is that.

[ArmyBengal]

The same thing can be said about Dalton and many other college QB's in that they won big games.

Dalton took then little mentioned TCU to a BCS game and won. Did he win a national championship ?? No, but lets not pretend TCU is Alabama.

Some QB's can have that translate to the NFL and some can't. The NFL is littered with those that can't.

[cincyhokie]

The same thing can be said about Dalton and many other college QB's in that they won big games.

Dalton took then little mentioned TCU to a BCS game and won. Did he win a national championship ?? No, but lets not pretend TCU is Alabama.

Some QB's can have that translate to the NFL and some can't. The NFL is littered with those that can't.

It's really amazing when you think of all the QBs in college and pro levels. All of that skill and talent. Maybe 10...10 QB's the world are good enough to be consistent "winners" or "elite".

[HoosierCat]

Then I see the question being, does Campbell fill seats in PBS ?? Why worry about McCarron ??

Yeah, are you talking about 2015 ticket sales, Hoosier? If so, that would be a massive long shot. I'm not buying that McCarron or any other QB drafted after round 2 would put butts in seats.

Yes, 2015 (though I believe Mike is actually crazy enough to try it in 2014, but won't.) One thing to remember: we here are freaks of sports nature. The casual fan doesn't give a crap when McCarron was drafted, all they'll see is Alabama's two-time championship QB who won almost every game and threw five billion TDs to -50 picks. And you can count on espn et. al. making "can Andy win?" the one and only Bengals story in the national media between now and forever. So in sum they are going to get a steady diet of "Andy sucks & McCarron was a two-time national champeen!"

It's all about buzz, and McCarron will get that in spades. Dalton, meanwhile, could go 19-0, throw 500 TDs and no INTs, break every NFL QB record and it would just be, "ehh, he had lots of talent around him, anyone could have won with that team."

[kingwilly]

I'm not going to dismiss what Andy has done but the factors around him do contribute to his "franchise records" and "one of only 3 in NFL history" talk. The players, scheme, defense, etc.

Factoring that, it's my view that Dalton is not the "special" guy I'm sure his agents are painting him to be. The belief around the NFL and media is the same. He the "Andy line", demarcation between being good or bad.

For reference, I'm working with a former NCAA champion QB, who played many years in the NFL, with our 7v7 and tackle team. He thinks Andy is barely average and has greatly benefitted from an elite D and good offensive tools. I trust his opinion very much. When he tells me Saturday that he thinks McCarron is a much better QB I trust his perspective.

Contract stuff aside, Dalton will start unless injured. Taking McCarron in r5 probably even surprised the Bengals but now that he's drafted it opens up quite a lot of scenarios that didn't exist.

As for Campbell, that comes down to Hue. They'd said they'd carry 3 QBs, so with him here they can withstand an injury Dalton while McCarron learns Hues schemes.

[HoosierCat]

The same thing can be said about Dalton and many other college QB's in that they won big games.

Dalton took then little mentioned TCU to a BCS game and won. Did he win a national championship ?? No, but lets not pretend TCU is Alabama.

I get that, but we're three years out of school for Andy and the conventional wisdom has congealed around "he can't win big games." Again, us nuts here can argue that, but to the casual fan he's just the QB who crapped the bed three straight times in the playoffs. Meanwhile, A.J. McCarron is a shiny new toy with two BCS championships, lots of buzz and, most importantly, no NFL track record to say he can't win. (Yes, we don't know if he can win, but again the CW is the other guy can't, so...) Look at what happened in Cleveland after they picked Manziel. He hadn't even gotten off the stage at Radio City before ticket sales started to spike and merchandise is reportedly flying off the shelf. I'm sure Mike took notice.

[cincyhokie]

I'm not going to dismiss what Andy has done but the factors around him do contribute to his "franchise records" and "one of only 3 in NFL history" talk. The players, scheme, defense, etc.

Factoring that, it's my view that Dalton is not the "special" guy I'm sure his agents are painting him to be. The belief around the NFL and media is the same. He the "Andy line", demarcation between being good or bad.

For reference, I'm working with a former NCAA champion QB, who played many years in the NFL, with our 7v7 and tackle team. He thinks Andy is barely average and has greatly benefitted from an elite D and good offensive tools. I trust his opinion very much. When he tells me Saturday that he thinks McCarron is a much better QB I trust his perspective.

Contract stuff aside, Dalton will start unless injured. Taking McCarron in r5 probably even surprised the Bengals but now that he's drafted it opens up quite a lot of scenarios that didn't exist.

As for Campbell, that comes down to Hue. They'd said they'd carry 3 QBs, so with him here they can withstand an injury Dalton while McCarron learns Hues schemes.

Good information. Thanks for sharing that.

Interesting point about the Bengals being suprised in getting McCarron in round 5. How would he be viewed if he was drafted in round 3 by the Texans?

[gregcook68]

Then I see the question being, does Campbell fill seats in PBS ?? Why worry about McCarron ??

Have Campbell and McCarron compete for the 2 spot?

[gregcook68]

The underlying point is they will NOT be opening up the QB spot to competition. It's Dalton's job. The question then centers on why they think Dalton shouldn't face real competition, and why they should extend him for massive money while options that might actually be better are now in the fold?

Because they don't know what the f*** they are doing. The organization is paralyzed. It can't make a decision whether to extend Dalton or not and the result is the half-assed offseason we've seen. Drafting McCarron is just another attempt to square a circle and avoid making the tough decisions.

It's time to make some noise!! I say we bring back the 90s and picket at the stadium!!! Heck even I'm qualified to carry a sign!!

I think you've actually hit on a big part of the problem: noise. Or more broadly, passion.

I do and do not believe Hue when he says that the McCarron pick isn't about Andy. I do believe it's not about Dalton's play on the field. However, I DO believe it was due in significant part to the fact that the Dalton-led Bengals are struggling to sell tickets, even to playoff games. Forget playoff wins, does Mike Brown want to give $20 million a year to a QB who can't put butts in the seats? Even when he IS winning?

Remember, Mike has always been of the opinion that what fans want is scoring. Lots of exciting big plays on offense, all driven by a big, cannon-armed QB. And that winning doesn't count as much as that. The Dalton experience is validating all of that. MCCarron isn't quite that mold, but he is a cocky championship winner; he has that much of Boomer in him.

It's already apparent that AJ has generated passion among the fans. Given the choice between a boring Dalton who just wins and an exciting AJ who may or may not win but will fill PBS, which way Mike will jump is obvious.

If I were still in Dayton, I would have no problem with a physical presence, I would do it for different reasons, because I've already boycotted both football and baseball games since the strikes in the 80s. I will only go if given a ticket as a gift.

[Scottishbengal]

McCarron gives the Bengals leverage if they believe he can do what Dalton can do.

Good point. perhaps the bengals would rather offer a decent salary shorter term contract to Dalton and let him prove he,s worthy of flacco type money thereafter, fail and there,s a ready replacement with 2 or 3 years back up experience waiting to go. A similar style quarterback which won,t cause a major overhaul of the system

[Walrus]

Meanwhile, A.J. McCarron is a shiny new toy with two BCS championships, lots of buzz and, most importantly, no NFL track record to say he can't win. (Yes, we don't know if he can win, but again the CW is the other guy can't, so...) Look at what happened in Cleveland after they picked Manziel. He hadn't even gotten off the stage at Radio City before ticket sales started to spike and merchandise is reportedly flying off the shelf. I'm sure Mike took notice.

But McCarron and Manziel are totally different. Manziel was drafted high to be the fresh new face of an organization bereft of star power. Desperate Browns fans responded in kind.

McCarron is here to hold a clipboard. There's the adage about the backup QB being the most popular guy on the team, so I do fully expect a degree of that to surface the first time "Bad Andy" shows up. But so far, he has garnered very little attention from local media since being drafted, as far as I can tell. The main site currently features a blog by Greg Hoard defending Dalton as the "face of the franchise" and no new articles from Baghdad Hobs yet heralding the "shiny new toy" from the 5th round. Any articles I do see out there focus on his humiliating draft day fall and the comment he made about not being healthy at Alabama.

Of course, it's a yearly tradition for Hobs to prop up one or more bit players as the next hot thing on the roster, so maybe I'll have to wait for that to see if the guy gains any more traction in the imagination of fans.

[COB]

Personal attack!!!

LMAO. Are you even qualified to determine if that was a personal attack from Willy? Probably not. You should just defer to the professionals on personal attacks before you go spouting your baseless opinion on a message board.

[gregcook68]

Personal attack!!!

LMAO. Are you even qualified to determine if that was a personal attack from Willy? Probably not. You should just defer to the professionals on personal attacks before you go spouting your baseless opinion on a message board.

Come on COBBIE! I thought you were my homeboy!

After all you and I are the only ones who truly get that the Bengals has no chance with Dalton at QB!

To top it off they hire another one just like him!

Maybe he'll get an IR injury and Campbell can take over.

[HoosierCat]

McCarron is here to hold a clipboard. There's the adage about the backup QB being the most popular guy on the team, so I do fully expect a degree of that to surface the first time "Bad Andy" shows up. But so far, he has garnered very little attention from local media since being drafted, as far as I can tell. The main site currently features a blog by Greg Hoard defending Dalton as the "face of the franchise" and no new articles from Baghdad Hobs yet heralding the "shiny new toy" from the 5th round. Any articles I do see out there focus on his humiliating draft day fall and the comment he made about not being healthy at Alabama. .

Don't worry, the attention will come. And heaven forfend McCarron has an even half-decent quarter in a preseason game. The calls for Andy's head will shake PBS.

I agree that AJ's job right now is holding a clipboard. But I fear it won't stay that way for long.

[ArmyBengal]

So again, if Dalton only benefits from the players and scheme where does that put McCarron who has played on some of the best college teams in recent history ?? Let me guess, HE carried those teams right ?? While McCarron might be the next coming of (name a great QB) I don't like the argument that Dalton is the only person benefitting from the players around him.

Sure someone has to catch those passes. Who threw them ??

Let me guess, all those throws sucked right ??

[cincyhokie]

Makes for an interesting pre-season.

[HoosierCat]

So again, if Dalton only benefits from the players and scheme where does that put McCarron who has played on some of the best college teams in recent history ?? Let me guess, HE carried those teams right ?? While McCarron might be the next coming of (name a great QB) I don't like the argument that Dalton is the only person benefitting from the players around him.

Sure someone has to catch those passes. Who threw them ??

Let me guess, all those throws sucked right ??

Calm down there, Army, I'm with ya! But we both know that the storyline this summer will accentuate all of Andy's flaws and play down all of McCarron's negatives because who doesn't love a good QB controversy. As hokie says, it'll be interesting. Dalton will have to smile and make nice with a bunch of reporters he would probably like to punch in the face. Meanwhile, those same reporters will be doing their damnedest to get provocative quotes out of the "cocky" backup, who intentionally or not will probably provide a few. Marvin and Hue get the joyous job of trying to keep a lid on things.

Only thing that would make this more perfect is if they went and signed Kitna...

[gregcook68]

Sounds like a season of trying to force myself, usually unsuccessfully, to try desperately to root for expected failure!

[TJJackson]

Ah fuck it, "not qualified to question them"...

Stuff it.

I am qualified. Deal with it.

In the context of a fan message board, yep, we're all qualified

I speak for myself, I'm not!

You are

And for you to continually make the point that you aren't on a messageboard specifically geared towards this kind of discussion is very, very irritating

[TJJackson]

Personal attack!!!

LMAO. Are you even qualified to determine if that was a personal attack from Willy? Probably not. You should just defer to the professionals on personal attacks before you go spouting your baseless opinion on a message board.

*grin*

+1

[kingwilly]

So again, if Dalton only benefits from the players and scheme where does that put McCarron who has played on some of the best college teams in recent history ?? Let me guess, HE carried those teams right ?? While McCarron might be the next coming of (name a great QB) I don't like the argument that Dalton is the only person benefitting from the players around him.

Sure someone has to catch those passes. Who threw them ??

Let me guess, all those throws sucked right ??

It's not an "All" or "Nothing" scenario.

If the Bengals believe that Dalton simply needed to get a more balanced scheme and an upgrade at a couple of spots (Power back, C, healthy line), then what good reason did they draft McCarron? Not to groom and have a player to trade away.

They have to be concerned about the following:

1. progression/regression - can he progress in this new scheme, with new tools?

2. Is now the time to extend him? Paying big money to a guy who has a weaker toolset than Cutler, Stafford or Ryan cannot enamor the front office. If they wanted to reward him, theyd have paid him the $15-17M/yr and we'd all be freaking out.

3. Missing chances to get a player with more upside who can come in and maximize this roster. Green, Gio, Eifert, Gresh, the line, etc. etc. all have a shelf life. Use it up forcing Dalton to be "the guy" when he isn't? that would be a big mistake when folks look back on what could have been. The window is open but for how much longer?

So, I'm left wondering about McCarron. Is McCarron simply "Andy+"? Is he a negotiating tool? Is he viable to push Campbell? all maybes.

They will stick with Dalton for a bit more. I see McCarron as a mid-term hedge against the regression, looking at 2015 and beyond. In the event they do NOT extend Andy, based on him not progressing (missing playoffs, or a playoff loss in the same vain), then they have McCarron to step in. Cheap insurance without the risks of a super high r1 QB.

As for Andy, he controls the end game. Either, stop asking for "elite" money (because he's not elite), or progress and win some games to prove you are on the way. Brown will spend the money, but not blindly or because of some problematic "Passing Era" driven stats that ignore his flaws....