HoosierCat Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Skunk-head endorses the "wait and see" option:2. I think I know which way I’d vote. I’d want to see one more season of proof out of Dalton before paying him close to Matt Ryan or Jay Cutler money. If he leads Cincinnati deep into the playoffs this year and it costs me a few million extra, so be it. But what I’ve seen so far doesn’t convince me he should be paid $15 million a year. If you’re going to cast your lot with a young quarterback, he has to be the man you believe will lead you to a Super Bowl. Watching Dalton, I like what I see, and I’ve liked his toughness in winning some big games. But he hasn’t shown me yet that he’s a January quarterback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Kings of overreaction? Sheesh.I don't see anyone overreacting. But if you spend three years saying that you can't sign players A, B, C, D, E and F because all the money has to be saved for guys X and Y -- and then start hedging on X and Y, you going to get criticized.What we have here on the Dalton front is the rather unusual sight of Mike Brown negotiating through the media. He strongly implies Dalton is asking for too much coin and adds that this year is the last chance for a deal. It will be interesting to see if Dalton's camp returns the volley.The problem is that X&Y have to cooperate.I genuinely just think this is how the business works. There's always hedging and always some gambles that are taken by every team. You don't often get behind the scenes glimpses, which is why owners/gms typically need to keep their mouths shut. For good reason.It's something Mike Brown USUALLY does well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Again, there are things I see the team doing, that i'm not really concerned with.Utilizing the option on AJ with the possibility of the tag after that.Letting some go, but resigning others. People forget they got Geno and Dunlap done.Then again, there are things I can't really say I like all that much from my couch.I would rather they wait on Dalton, but I can't say definitively that's the right approach either.People don't think Flacco should have gotten that money and he won the freakin' Super Bowl.I don't like the wait and see when it means other players leave "in the hopes" of getting someone else done.What if said player doesn't want to be here ?? There are other players that could be sacrificed.Again, the view from my couch can be hazy at times...Is it May yet ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 The problem is that X&Y have to cooperate.Oh, absolutely. But the Bengals have put themselves in this spot by spending the last three years repeatedly and publicly stating that they were saving up to give these guys big new deals. More, they've created in the minds of our boys X and Y the expectation that it's payday. It's a little late in the day to get cold feet now. Either they bite the bullet and lay down the cash...or they should have matched Hawkins, promised the LT job to AC and backed Andy's Brink's truck up to MJ's locker.Since they didn't do that, it makes me suspect that in the end Dalton will get his big-bucks extension and that this was just an attempt to regain some leverage in contract talks with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I really like the use of your italicized "didn't".Just the right amount of sarcasm to get a point across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I sure wouldn't extend him now, and I am not a dalton hater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 The question I have is, is he worth the big money? I'm not a Dalton hater either, but I'm not really sure how much he is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 The question I have is, is he worth the big money? I'm not a Dalton hater either, but I'm not really sure how much he is worth.I thought the sportrac piece bengalfan linked to on the last page was a pretty decent starting point:/>http://www.spotrac.com/premium/research/nfl/contract-forecast-andy-dalton-438/Also worth considering: when they extended Palmer in 2005, they gave him an average north of $13 million a year. That's nine years ago and at that point Carson had accomplished less than Andy has so far.I think $18-20 million a year for any player is crazy, but that's the NFL today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Andy had a much better defense backing him than Carson did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 QB's get paid if they are average at best and Dalton has taken the team to the playoffs each of his years as the QB.That's better than average at best. He, as any QB, will get paid. The "when" I think is rightful to question though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 The question I have is, is he worth the big money? I'm not a Dalton hater either, but I'm not really sure how much he is worth.I thought the sportrac piece bengalfan linked to on the last page was a pretty decent starting point:/>http://www.spotrac.com/premium/research/nfl/contract-forecast-andy-dalton-438/Also worth considering: when they extended Palmer in 2005, they gave him an average north of $13 million a year. That's nine years ago and at that point Carson had accomplished less than Andy has so far.I think $18-20 million a year for any player is crazy, but that's the NFL today.The statistical portion of that link is excellent. One area I do believe Dalton can improve upon is INTs. With a less pass-happy scheme, this could end up a strength for Dalton. Perhaps... The part where I feel they go off the rails is in the dollars. If Dalton ends up paid more that Stafford or Ryan, then I'll be very disappointed. Much of the success of this team has been due to Defense, not Dalton. Dalton may end up near $14-15M/yr for 4 years, which I think is fair. Front load, with a big signing bonus to keep it cap friendly, and only guarantee the first 2 years. Something like $12M signing, $28M guaranteed. Aim high on the bonus and guaranteed money, but with lower total nut, and and earlier out. Until Dalton wins in the playoffs, and shows he can execute the Hue plan, they have to keep options open. Taking this tact would also permit more $ for AJ and Burfict, who we already know their values and elite in this game. Dalton is not elite, can't be considered elite, should not be paid as elite. Another view is just because team overpaid for Cutler/Ryan/Stafford does not mean the Bengals must continue with the same pattern. If Dalton ends up not signing, so be it. Shift focus to AJ and Burfict and start planning for the next guy to be your trigger man. Just FYI, I'm not a Dalton hater. I just do not think he has a high ceiling and will never be more than a slightly better than average QB. To me he is akin to Brad Johnson or maybe a guy like Jay Fiedler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 I guess I'm just not sweating the difference between, say, $14 million a year and $18 million a year. That can easily be managed given the growing cap and the many contracts the Bengals could restructure to gain space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 But it'd be better if he got the 14 million (or less) base and the rest could be earned through performance clausessuch as, oh, I dont know, winning playoff games? throwing fewer ints per attempt?sign me up for both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregcook68 Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Lewis wants Dalton signed before the season starts and gives his reasons why in an article on the website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 For reference re Dalton, Kaepernick is also looking to be extended by the 49rs. />http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10671765/san-francisco-49ers-hope-extend-colin-kaepernick-training-camp21-8 as starter. Two straight NFC title games, one trip (loss) to the SB.Expect $18-20M/yr. My bet is 6 years, $115M, 15m bonus, $40M guaranteed.They will break the bank for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 They will break the bank for him.It will definitely be interesting to see. You can make many of the same arguments against doing so for Kap that you can for Dalton. Yes, unlike Andy, Colin has some playoff victories under his belt. But SF has boasted an even better defense than the Bengals' for the past three years, and Kap has had the benefit of a run game that's ranked between 3rd and 8th in the league (and yes some of that is due to him but that Gore guy is pretty good too...) versus 18-19 for Dalton. Oh, and Kap has a head coach named Harbaugh and an OC with 15 years of NFL experience. Dalton has had "Giggles" Lewis and Dick Grayson, Boy Wonder Jay Gruden.A Kap deal in the mid-teens would probably work wonders getting Dalton re-signed but you're probably right, he'll get Flacco-plus money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Alright,The Peko pimpers have it:/>http://www.cincyjungle.com/2014/3/26/5550262/report-domata-peko-has-contract-extended-by-bengals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 What do I win? Will be interesting to see the numbers. He was set to make a little more than $4 million this year so figure that got rolled into a bonus. I'd guess something like three years (2014-16), $12 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 No complaints about Peko sticking around.Just keep things moving.How about Burfict ?? Would love to see him taken care of.Not many so deserving as him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 would like to see the terms before judging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 I'm good with Peko extending. On one hand, it shows his durability and effectiveness. On the other hand, it shows that Still and Thompson are not far enough aong to have overtaken Peko.I'd like to get an update on Atkins progress so far in his recovery. I hope he is on track for getting back to being a monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Interesting piece on the Dalton situation from Doc. His take? Andy should call the team's bluff, decline their offer and play out his rookie deal./>http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/columnists/paul-daugherty/2014/03/26/daugherty-andy-dalton-should-play-out-contract/6914217/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 I think the Bengals truly want to keep Dalton around, but they want to do it at a cheaper rate.Can't say as I blame them for that. However, I agree that Dalton should bet on himself.That is the direction I wanted the team to take anyway.Draft a QB, give Dalton another season, and go from there.If he fails, move on.I just think the team is firm in wanting Dalton back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishbengal Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 The Bengals have made the play-offs three successive seasons ... is this because of Dalton or in spite of him? The Bengals have failed to win a play-off game in three successive season .... is this beacuse of Dalton or in spite of him?I can appreciate the negotiating stance from both camps ..... Daltons agent will be wanting to secure top coin for his client, the Bengals would probably have tabled a fair offer and won't want to be pushed too far away whilst there are still issues to be proven.I'm sure the Bengals want Dalton signed and focused on moving forward, better for the player, better for the team, better for the organisation.... however if Dalton doesn't sign before the draft and a legiitimate QB option is available when they select ....... well then, that becomes a very interesting situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 I just think the team is firm in wanting Dalton back.Yeah, based on Mike's comments, it appears to be a case of "when," not "if," a deal gets done. I think willy was wise to point to the looming Kapernick deal. The Bengals have traditionally been loathe to "set the market" and are very likely (IMHO of course) looking at that deal to set some kind of benchmark. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the Bengals and 49ers ownerships had a few discussions in some out-of-service elevator during the recent league meeting (what, collusion in the NFL? I am shocked, shocked!) and as a result the Bengals think Kap's deal will work to their advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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