Play Off picture

[gregcook68]

It's probably worth noting that the Bengals weren't the only ones who failed to grasp opportunity this weekend. Denver, New England and Dallas all had open doors they couldn't get through. And someone is going to get the short end of the playoff stick tonight.

Road games in division are always hard. This isn't the end of the world. But I would feel a lot better about things with Baltimore were to lose tonight, that's for sure.

Absolutely! Also more concerned and ticked about Huber's injury along with Harrison.

[kingwilly]

I agree. Let's not get lost in the loss. It was a bad weekend of football for most playoff bound teams. I would submit the Bengals looked worse than I thought possible at this point but with two to go, playing at home needs to be seen as a big advantage.

[jamesbrooks21]

So please correct me if I'm wrong. But if New England loses to Baltimore, and Miami wins out. That last weekend we will be playing for the two seed with a win or miss the playoffs altogether with a loss. Isn't that right? If those scenarios play out, and I think they just might, it will be 2 seed or nothing.

[gregcook68]

So please correct me if I'm wrong. But if New England loses to Baltimore, and Miami wins out. That last weekend we will be playing for the two seed with a win or miss the playoffs altogether with a loss. Isn't that right? If those scenarios play out, and I think they just might, it will be 2 seed or nothing.

Assuming we win Sunday.

[ArmyBengal]

That is correct. If the Ravens and Dolphins win out, the Bengals are watching the playoffs from home.

The 2 seed or nothing would be exactly it.

Give me option three where the Ravens lose next week and we don't have to deal with such extremes.

I really don't need to have a heart attack because of my football team.

[cincyhokie]

That is correct. If the Ravens and Dolphins win out, the Bengals are watching the playoffs from home.

The 2 seed or nothing would be exactly it.

Give me option three where the Ravens lose next week and we don't have to deal with such extremes.

I really don't need to have a heart attack because of my football team.

Tell me about it. It makes those crazy comeback wins by the Ravens and Patriots that much harder to take.

[bwillycuse]

That is correct. If the Ravens and Dolphins win out, the Bengals are watching the playoffs from home.

The 2 seed or nothing would be exactly it.

Give me option three where the Ravens lose next week and we don't have to deal with such extremes.

I really don't need to have a heart attack because of my football team.

What if NE loses its last two games and we beat minny?

We would beat NE for the final wild card.

[Sea Ray]

That is correct. If the Ravens and Dolphins win out, the Bengals are watching the playoffs from home.

The 2 seed or nothing would be exactly it.

Give me option three where the Ravens lose next week and we don't have to deal with such extremes.

I really don't need to have a heart attack because of my football team.

Tell me about it. It makes those crazy comeback wins by the Ravens and Patriots that much harder to take.

How can we get in on the deals Balt has made with the football Gods? Last year they lucked their way into the Super Bowl with the 4th and 29 dump off pass in SD and the hail Mary vs the Broncos in the playoffs and now this year it just continues. Who says these things even out? The Bengals haven't had that many gift victories in decades

[cincyhokie]

That is correct. If the Ravens and Dolphins win out, the Bengals are watching the playoffs from home.

The 2 seed or nothing would be exactly it.

Give me option three where the Ravens lose next week and we don't have to deal with such extremes.

I really don't need to have a heart attack because of my football team.

Tell me about it. It makes those crazy comeback wins by the Ravens and Patriots that much harder to take.

How can we get in on the deals Balt has made with the football Gods? Last year they lucked their way into the Super Bowl with the 4th and 29 dump off pass in SD and the hail Mary vs the Broncos in the playoffs and now this year it just continues. Who says these things even out? The Bengals haven't had that many gift victories in decades

I'll concede that 4th and 29 because you don't know how it plays out from there. However, that AFC Championship game ending was the biggest stroke of luck I've ever seen. Last night the refs basically handed them 2 field goals and took away a potential Lions TD. The Ravens are a split f**king hair from being 6-8, as opposed to 8-6.

[gregcook68]

The simplest scenario is to win out! I have to agree with some who said we will never be contenders until we can at least start splitting with Steelers and Ravens.

We win the next 2, we do just that.

[HoosierCat]

Updated % chances from FO, last number is most recent:

% change of the Bengals...

Making the postseason: 98.9% > 99.4% > 93.8%

Making the AFC Championship game: 39.3% > 41.6% > 36.0%

Making the Super Bowl: 17.6% >19.3% > 15.6%

Winning the Super Bowl: 7.3% > 8.4% > 6.6%

% Chance Super Bowl is...

Who-Dey vs. Who-Dat (CIN-NO): 2.9% > 5.3% > 2.5%

Bill Walsh Memorial Bowl (CIN-SF): 0.8% > 1.3% > 1.4%

Carson Palmer Reunion Special (CIN-AZ): 0.1% > not ranked > 0.1%

[Stripes]

I'm not worried about the North. We got this.

[ArmyBengal]

I think it was mentioned before, but I looked into it for myself and if the Dolphins lose Sunday, it would put the Bengals in a better situation.

That way, if the Ravens beat the Pats, we move into the #2 seed and set up that last game with the division title on the line.

Even if the Bengals lost that game, they still end up in the #6 seed.

The Dolphins play the early game and the Ravens / Pats game is the late game.

With that thought in mind, I will be rooting for the Dolphins to lose. If they win, I will be rooting for the Pats.

While this team may need to start winning more than they lose against the Steelers and Ravens, I wouldn't want to take the chance of them not making it to the playoffs at all. There's that saying that it doesn't matter what your record is as long as you get TO the playoffs.

[kingwilly]

I'm not worried about the North. We got this.

I'm not worried about it either. That being said, should they implode and end up on the outside, I suspect some serious changes could be made. Specifically, Gruden and Dalton. Point being, they should not even be in this situation. Looking at the tight games, where the O struggled, most falls on Gruden and Scut. Blowing it up in year 3 does not sound nice but it may be necessary, if the worst case scenario plays out. I hope it does not go that way, and realize this is not the most popular thing to discuss.

Should it all go bad, and having a look at the QB talent out there, its not the "best" year to get a QB in the draft. Guys like Mettenberger, McCarron in r2/3, or maybe it'd be better to step outside the box and make a run at Cutler or a guy like Vick? All I can say is there is simply too much talent on this offense, too much potential, to stick with a guy who's ceiling is not high enough. One can point to the October Andy and think there is still more to develop, or one can look at it and say its a function of the elite tools he has at his disposal and that's the best he's gonna get.

If this team wins out, wins the AFCN and makes some noise in the playoffs, wins a game or two, then it will show me that they truly are on the right track. Obviously some consideration being given to the loss of defensive starters when we look at the success on the whole.

[gregcook68]

I'm not worried about the North. We got this.

I'm not worried about it either. That being said, should they implode and end up on the outside, I suspect some serious changes could be made. Specifically, Gruden and Dalton. Point being, they should not even be in this situation. Looking at the tight games, where the O struggled, most falls on Gruden and Scut. Blowing it up in year 3 does not sound nice but it may be necessary, if the worst case scenario plays out. I hope it does not go that way, and realize this is not the most popular thing to discuss.

Should it all go bad, and having a look at the QB talent out there, its not the "best" year to get a QB in the draft. Guys like Mettenberger, McCarron in r2/3, or maybe it'd be better to step outside the box and make a run at Cutler or a guy like Vick? All I can say is there is simply too much talent on this offense, too much potential, to stick with a guy who's ceiling is not high enough. One can point to the October Andy and think there is still more to develop, or one can look at it and say its a function of the elite tools he has at his disposal and that's the best he's gonna get.

If this team wins out, wins the AFCN and makes some noise in the playoffs, wins a game or two, then it will show me that they truly are on the right track. Obviously some consideration being given to the loss of defensive starters when we look at the success on the whole.

I respect everyone's opinion, but since my son is an Eagles fan, hence I follow them closer than any other team, outside of the Bengals, Vick can't stay healthy. That's the only reason Foles is playing and playing well. Yes, Vick is now healed but Foles is playing too well to replace. This could be a Tom Brady scenario all over again! Not as far as Foles being as talented as Brady, but Foles playing ONLY because Vick went down like Bledsoe did in New Engalnd.

I'm not going to debate the Dalton thing, but what I do know from how the staff feels about him and relationship between Brown and Lewis, regardless of what happens this year, I do not believe you will see a change at HC or QB, unless Marvin initiates and steps down, or up to GM.

[cincyhokie]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000299606/article/afc-playoff-picture-north-up-for-grabs

Apparently, the Bengals are now the "3rd best team in the AFCN."

You know? The team that's won the last 3 of 4 games and is top 10 in offense and defense.

My god, the media jumps at any chance to bury the Bengals behind the beloved Steelers/Ravens rivalry. I was disappointed in the way they played Sunday night too, but damn, let's be objective about it.

[jjakq27]

http://www.nfl.com/n...th-up-for-grabs

Apparently, the Bengals are now the "3rd best team in the AFCN."

You know? The team that's won the last 3 of 4 games and is top 10 in offense and defense.

My god, the media jumps at any chance to bury the Bengals behind the beloved Steelers/Ravens rivalry. I was disappointed in the way they played Sunday night too, but damn, let's be objective about it.

Third best team that's in first place..

[cincyhokie]

http://www.nfl.com/n...th-up-for-grabs

Apparently, the Bengals are now the "3rd best team in the AFCN."

You know? The team that's won the last 3 of 4 games and is top 10 in offense and defense.

My god, the media jumps at any chance to bury the Bengals behind the beloved Steelers/Ravens rivalry. I was disappointed in the way they played Sunday night too, but damn, let's be objective about it.

Third best team that's in first place..

Watch the video. I've never seen so much slobbing over a team that is as close to 6-8 as they are to 8-6. Pump them up, get overconfident. The bubble will be that much more fun to see burst.

[HoosierCat]

All I can say is there is simply too much talent on this offense, too much potential,

Let's set aside the Dalton/Gruden argument for a moment and examine this assertion. Potential? Well, yes, I suppose, but potential is by definition unprovable; until its absence or presence is demonstrated by time it's just conjecture.

But "too much talent" is definitely testable. And IMHO the case for the Bengals' offense having too much talent is rather weak.

AJ Green? No doubt of talent there. He has put up tremendous numbers and made a bunch of circus catches. There's no doubt that a great deal of the team's success in this and the past two seasons is due to him. That said, it's year 3 and the amount of growth we have seen in Green as a receiver is...unimpressive. For all his talent, he still drops too many balls, rounds off too many routes and slacks off at times. He is still getting by on his talent and has not taken his game to the next level yet. But yes, talent is there.

But after Green? Not so much. Sanu and Jones have both flashed on occasion, most notably Jones vs. the Jets, but neither has firmly grasped the No. 2 WR spot. Sanu I would classify as a disappointment this season. At best these guys are average right now.

Gresham and Eifert? I don't think anyone has any illusions about Gresh at this point. Too many drops, too many fumbles, too much inconsistency in blocking. He isn't a bad player but has never lived up to his draft spot. Eifert remains an incomplete.

BJGE and Gio? Gio looks like he may indeed fall into the "too much talent" area. A little early still but I wouldn't argue with that. Green-Ellis is what he is, and whatever that is it isn't too much talent.

Now, I've noted several times before that this is a young offense, so I'm not ready to toss guys overboard and start yet again, especially at WR behind Green. But to me it's far from clear that we have an offense full of too much talent that's being held back by the QB and/or OC.

[volcom69]

The bengals are just an inconsistant team. Good thing for them they play in the AFC, where every team is inconsistant.

This team can win so many games in a row, but then out come the let down game. There offense flashes for a couple games, then they forget what there doing. The defense was great, but now is so injured.

So the question I have is what team will show up these last 2 games. The problem for years has been they are inconsistant, or they don't play a complete game. It was really hard to trust them. Just when you start to believe, the have that let down game. Lets hope that game is done, and they can put togther some good wins.

[kingwilly]

All I can say is there is simply too much talent on this offense, too much potential,

Let's set aside the Dalton/Gruden argument for a moment and examine this assertion. Potential? Well, yes, I suppose, but potential is by definition unprovable; until its absence or presence is demonstrated by time it's just conjecture...../

/Now, I've noted several times before that this is a young offense, so I'm not ready to toss guys overboard and start yet again, especially at WR behind Green. But to me it's far from clear that we have an offense full of too much talent that's being held back by the QB and/or OC.

Perhaps the lack of development related to Green is shortage of ability in Dalton? Seems he is the deficient end of that equation, or, if we looked closer it would be half Gruden and half Dalton. I think if that is plausible, then it's also effecting guys like Sanu and Jones.

Eifert and Gresh are the epitome of potential. Much of Gresh's shortcomings we've seen is on him. Dalton does not contribute to his issues, in my view. Eifert falls under the "potential" flag, similar to Gio and Green. If he fails to reach what is accepted as his potential, I'd cite the Gruden/Dalton limitations as the constraint.

I think it is generally accepted that there is quite a load of talent/potential/ability (call it what you will) on this offense. It is also frequently noted that Dalton seems to be the weak link. I don't think its fair to put it all on him. I believe it is shared by Gruden and Dalton, with some natural blame falling to the other players for dropped balls, etc.

So, the question still stands as "Is the Dalton/Gruden pair the right combo to get the most from the potential on this offense?"

I mean, would guys like Green, Sanu, Jones, Gresh, Eifert, Hawk, Gio perform at a higher level with a guy like Cutler? I'm not saying they would just opening the debate. What is it that Andy does that makes him the "right" guy for the job? That he's steady and unflappable? I hardly consider that such an important trait as to outweigh his clear shortcomings.

Again, much of this goes back to Gruden and the scheme, so I cannot imagine a change unless it was both of them, meaning Gruden moving on and Dalton fighting for his job against a rookie in a new scheme under a new coordinator. If the offense cannot take advantage of the talent/potential/ability that is currently here, then the scheme must be subject to heavy review, and Dalton should also be heavily reviewed.

[HoosierCat]

I think it is generally accepted that there is quite a load of talent/potential/ability (call it what you will) on this offense. It is also frequently noted that Dalton seems to be the weak link.

Both true. But I distrust that narrative. Without going into a well-worn listing, there are plenty of things in Dalton's game to complain about. But I have a hard time blaming him for things like Green dropping balls and running lazy routes or Jones/Sanu struggling to get separation. And I can't help but remember that Green would be far from the first No. 1 WR in Cincy to get a pass on details since he has so much talent, or that we've been told about the awesomeness that is our No. 2/3 WRs before only to see...less than awesomeness. Armon "looks like Larry Fitzgerald in practice" Binns, for instance, or Tate.

Seriously, stop and think about it for a sec: when was the last time the Bengals drafted a successful WR not named Green? Chris Henry? I think it's debatable whether you could call that a success, but even if you do that was almost 9 years ago now. And after that you would have to go back to Chad & TJ in 2001. And their record on TEs over the same time frame isn't any better: Brewer, Schobel, Coffman, Gresh. Maybe Eifert is finally the one. Yet despite this massive track record of futility, convnetional wisdom is that the Bengals are loaded (this time for real! No foolin'!) and the problem is all Andy (and Gruden).

Maybe you're right. Or maybe they have just wiffed on the skill positions again.

[kingwilly]

I think it is generally accepted that there is quite a load of talent/potential/ability (call it what you will) on this offense. It is also frequently noted that Dalton seems to be the weak link.

Both true. But I distrust that narrative. Without going into a well-worn listing, there are plenty of things in Dalton's game to complain about. But I have a hard time blaming him for things like Green dropping balls and running lazy routes or Jones/Sanu struggling to get separation. And I can't help but remember that Green would be far from the first No. 1 WR in Cincy to get a pass on details since he has so much talent, or that we've been told about the awesomeness that is our No. 2/3 WRs before only to see...less than awesomeness. Armon "looks like Larry Fitzgerald in practice" Binns, for instance, or Tate.

Seriously, stop and think about it for a sec: when was the last time the Bengals drafted a successful WR not named Green? Chris Henry? I think it's debatable whether you could call that a success, but even if you do that was almost 9 years ago now. And after that you would have to go back to Chad & TJ in 2001. And their record on TEs over the same time frame isn't any better: Brewer, Schobel, Coffman, Gresh. Maybe Eifert is finally the one. Yet despite this massive track record of futility, convnetional wisdom is that the Bengals are loaded (this time for real! No foolin'!) and the problem is all Andy (and Gruden).

Maybe you're right. Or maybe they have just wiffed on the skill positions again.

Don't mistake, I make no claim that Sanu or Jones are Pro Bowl players. And let's not overlook the possibility that Green, despite saying and generally doing all the right things, may harbor some shred of doubt that he can reach his own true potential with Andy pulling the trigger. That's pure speculation. It very well could be he could work on his details and improve.

The last WR, before Green, they took who actually contributed early was Caldwell and Henry. And they let him walk after taking a backseat to TO and Chad in 2010. Simpson was buried, so had he started who knows. I agree and think the Bengals have a very poor record of finding and developing WRs, and this crop seems to be the best selections and development to date (Green, Sanu, Jones). I would imagine they should/could draft a higher/mid-range (r2-4) WR this draft). Heck, maybe they go WR in r1? If Andy carries them, it ight just happen.

The flip of this was when they had Palmer, he needed weapons beyond Chad/TJ. I'm inclined to think it was not the QB position was to question. It was that they needed to upgrade the WR corps and other weapons.

Chad, TJ, Henry, Washington, etc. etc. TE's, RB's.

[gregcook68]

I'm not one who hangs my hat on awards, and I'm certainly not coming down on either side of this point, because of the ad nauseum of the Dalton debate that I endured in the Bengal Forum, and besides that, my opinion means even LESS than nothing, because Bengals management is going to do whatever THEY think is best for the team, but I find it almost oxymoronic, to have a player, who, on one hand, has been only the second Bengal in history to win the player of the week award 3 times in a season, and the only offensive player in Bengals history to win it 3 times in a season, yet, on the other hand, we are debating whether he is even competent enough to be a starting QB on this team!! :huh:/>

[volcom69]

It all comes down consistancy which the bengals have none. For 3 weeks Dalton looks great, the next 3 he looks like crap. It's the whole offense, until they find consistancy it's going to be up and down, lets just hope it's up the next few games.

Oh and I'm still trying to figure out what kind of offense Gruden runs.