princeton Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I think that the second half performances have been immensely entertaining this season, and I can buy that the coaches are making key halftime adjustments, team has nice depth in its DL which shows up better later in game, etc.. so-- any theories on the eggs that we're laying in quarter number two though? outscored 91-32 so far? one idea: Andre Smith needs to be embarassed at least twice in a game before he begins to play. that usually happens by end of quarter number two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I think that the second half performances have been immensely entertaining this season, and I can buy that the coaches are making key halftime adjustments, team has nice depth in its DL which shows up better later in game, etc.. so-- any theories on the eggs that we're laying in quarter number two though? outscored 91-32 so far? one idea: Andre Smith needs to be embarassed at least twice in a game before he begins to play. that usually happens by end of quarter number two.Even worse... 16 of the 32 points the Bengals have scored in the 2nd quarter have been a result of the 2-minute drill. Take those away and you see that the Bengals offense is straight awful for the majority of the 2nd quarter (only 16 points scored in 11 games).Perhaps even more troubling than that... Marvin Lewis was asked about it, and essentially said he had no idea why. So don't look for it to be corrected, because the coaching staff doesn't know what to correct.I guess we should count our blessings though. This team has poise, doesn't give up, and plays their best football in the 4th quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Lacking a better explanation, I'd chalk it up to the offense still being a work in progress. Teams generally script a few series' worth of plays, but by the time they get to Q2 they're into "on the fly" mode and they just aren't there as an offense yet. So I would expect this problem to resolve itself as they get more time together and in Gruden's scheme. Like I mentioned in a thread a couple weeks ago, they've been doing so well I think we tend to forget that they've only played 11 games, and that with virtually no offseason prep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princeton Posted November 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 [16 of the 32 points the Bengals have scored in the 2nd quarter have been a result of the 2-minute drillso perhaps you're suggesting a solution: go no-huddle in the second quarter, or quit trying to run the football?I can particularly see the run angle-- Bengals usually give up on it in the third quarter. better to give up a little earlier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 [16 of the 32 points the Bengals have scored in the 2nd quarter have been a result of the 2-minute drillso perhaps you're suggesting a solution: go no-huddle in the second quarter, or quit trying to run the football?I can particularly see the run angle-- Bengals usually give up on it in the third quarter. better to give up a little earlier?Its probably heresy to the run at all costs crowd, but I suspect the 2nd quarter difficulties stem from wasted effort to establish a running game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Its probably heresy to the run at all costs crowd, but I suspect the 2nd quarter difficulties stem from wasted effort to establish a running game.It's not wasted effort. It makes the defense respect the run, their linebackers and safeties play closer to the line. Then when the play action pass is used, they take that all important step towards the center of the line, and that is often all that is needed for NFL receivers to be able to get open. Establishing the run game is not wasted effort! Someday the Bengals will play really well in a game, and at the end of the 4th quarter they'll have to run out the clock with the running game. There's another benefit to the running game. Another benefit is, even on your non-scoring drives, the run game just uses more clock. You deprive the other team's offense of chance after chance with the ball when you use a bunch of time with the running game.I am part of the run at all costs crowd, and I think it is well justified. Look at San Diego. Marty Schottenheimer went 14-2 in his last season, then AJ Feely, their GM, didn't like all the running. So he brought in a coach and a system that would highlight their very good quarterback, Rivers. They let Sproles get away, and now without the threat of a running game, the passing game is in the tank and the Chargers suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 That’s all fine and good, and I will listen to the argument that running the ball fruitlessly in the 2nd quarter leads to goodness in the 4th, but I am not sold on that argument. Frankly, as the year has deepened, it has become apparent that Dalton is comfortable with the offense opened up a bit, and when the offense is forced to open up, like in the two-minute drill or when they are behind, he thrives and the points get put on the board. I guess I would advocate opening the offense up a bit in the 2nd quarter too. They can still run it, but my sense is that their current approach to that part of the game is too predictable, and too easy to stifle for opposing teams.In fact, until they open the offense up a bit and they get a lead, it is a hypotehtical as to whether they can control the clock on the ground in the 4th quarter, as they have mostly been behind in that frame this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Ray Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 As a general rule, in the NFL you pass to open up the run. Of course every team (except the Tebow led Broncos) need a balance, but whatever they're doing in the 2nd qtr isn't working. I'm not sure it's mainly play calling. A lot of it is execution. It's awfully hard to get much going if Smith is holding and Simpson is dropping passes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcom69 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I truly hope they figure something out, im still waiting for them to play a complete game for 4 quarters, it has not happened yet. If they do that, this team can be that much better, and not have to wait till the last minute to win games. The bengals though have been like this for a couple years, they are hot, then turn cold, they are never consitant, and i often wonder why but dont know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princeton Posted November 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I checked the stats. The team actually abandons the pass in the second quarter: 85 rush attempts vs. 68 pass attempts in quarter 1; 64 rush attempts vs. 105 pass attempts in quarter 2.part of the abandonment is likely due to loss of effectiveness of the run in quarter 2: 3.1 yds per attempt, vs. 3.7 yards per attempt in quarter 1.switching to all-pass is not the cure: passer rating is MUCH higher in quarter 1 (115) vs. quarter 2 (64). Curiously, We also run very little in the third quater (67 rush attempts vs. 91 pass attempts), but the passing game is much more effective (100+ quarterback rating). Sacks are much lower in the third quarter than in the second, which I suspect is really important. Dalton just seems to have no time in the second quarter, AndreINTs are worst in both quarters 2 (4) and 4 (6) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Ray Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I checked the stats. The team actually abandons the pass in the second quarter: 85 rush attempts vs. 68 pass attempts in quarter 1; 64 rush attempts vs. 105 pass attempts in quarter 2.Seems to me the numbers show that they abandon the run in the 2nd qtr, not the pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 As I mentioned earlier... Marvin admitted there are problems in the 2nd quarter, but that he doesn't know why they struggle. I think it's probably safe to assume that if he doesn't know... we won't figure it out on a message board.However... I would like to point out that everyone appears to be talking as if it is only the offense that struggles. As bad as the offense has been in the 2nd quarter... the defense has been worse. 43% of the points scored against the Bengals come in the 2nd quarter. Opposing offenses score less than 4 points in the 1st quarter, less than 3 points in the 3rd quarter, and 4.5 points in the 4th quarter... but are scoring 8.2 points/game in the 2nd.Why? I don't pretend to know. But the Bengals have outscored an opponent in the 2nd quarter only once the entire season (7-3 against Seattle). It's not a fluke... it's a pattern, and I hope the coaches can figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princeton Posted December 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 I would like to point out that everyone appears to be talking as if it is only the offense that struggles. As bad as the offense has been in the 2nd quarter... the defense has been worse. 43% of the points scored against the Bengals come in the 2nd quarter. Opposing offenses score less than 4 points in the 1st quarter, less than 3 points in the 3rd quarter, and 4.5 points in the 4th quarter... but are scoring 8.2 points/game in the 2nd.some of that's on the offense. There have been scoring turnovers deep in our territory such as this past week's fumble, or the second quarter pick 6 by the Bills... Opposing teams have started with exceptional field position in the second quarter vs. the Bengals as opposed to the other quarters But your point is well taken. Bengals have surrendered 20 long scoring drives this year, and 9 of those occurred in the second quarter. Again, part of that's on the offense, which hasn't been able to hold the ball itself in second quarter, giving opposition more cracks at our defense. the Bengals' passing offense has also been poor in the fourth quarter (even with AJ Green's heroics). Passer rating by quarters: 115 in the first, 64 in the second, 103 in the third, 62 in the fourth. The difference between the second and fourth quarter has been fewer sacks surrenderd, as well as some big plays by the defense/teams. The defense/teams has those 30 big fourth quarter points; none in the other quarters. Defense has 4 of its 6 INTs in the fourth quarter, which is not unusual as teams try to come back from a deficit and get a little more careless. but here's a surprising number: 7 out of its 13 forced fumbles have been in the fourth quarter. personally, the numbers have switched my thinking a little-- Bengals should get more conservative in the second quarter, with more runs and short dropbacks, to see if that turns things around. Maybe it leads to shorter drives, but at least keeps away from the big sacks, turnovers, field position problems. Try putting more of it on the special teams and defense, even if it's also not their best quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Ray Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 I really think it just comes down to better execution in the 2nd qtr. They're just not playing good football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 some of that's on the offense.The sword cuts both ways.It's difficult for any offense to get in rhythm when their defense is allowing the opposing team to have 5+ minute scoring drives. Even so... the Bengals have had the ball for 49.23% of the 2nd quarter this year (so they aren't badly losing the TOP battle)... and they have usually won the field position battle in the 2nd quarter.The fact is, we don't know what the problem really is. The Bengals aren't scoring many points on offense, and they are giving up loads of points on defense. But none of the other stats seem to explain why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 By the second quarter, the ammonia capsule Marvin huffs on at the start of the game has worn off. His brain goes into ammonia withdrawl, and we suck until half time.Did anyone notice the beginning of the broadcast Sunday? Marvin took 3 big hits off something while the camera was focused only on him. Huffing ammonia isn't representing the shield! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwillycuse Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 So,when the coaches decide what they want to do in the second quarter, they should then take that plan, and do the opposite.If it works for George Costanza then it should work for the Bengals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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