So Glad Gruden is Here

[COB]

Earlier this year Whit was quoted as saying something like, and I'm paraphrasing, "This year we are doing what we want to do, making the defense try to stop us. Last year we just tried to react to everything the defense was doing."

Now on Thursday night's broadcast of the Bengals/Panther's game, this exchange occurred:

Brad Johansen - "And this is a completely different offense than this team had last year. And as we talked to Marvin Lewis 'bout last year, it's... this year it's like not starting from scratch every week, which is what it felt like last year for this team. It is building upon what works, adding to the terminology and it seems to be grasped a little bit easier for these guys on this offensive team.

Anthony Munoz - "Well, what I've noticed so far, at least from the passing game, it's a lot quicker, especially with a young quarterback, it gives him a chance to be successful a lot earlier. To me it looks like a lot of the same runs, but, you know, it doesn't have to be that complex when you get to the running game. It's the passing game that has a tendency to be pretty complex, and right here it looks like you look one place, boom you're going another place. You're throwing the ball so quickly to different areas that it's up to the wide reciever to get open quickly. You don't have to protect forever as an offensive lineman because the quarterback's back seven or ten yards."

So bottom line, if I see Bob Bratkowski, I will either kick him in the shin, or hold him down and make him listen to my wife's standard lecture about how he should eat less processed food and get his prostate checked.

Mike is at fault as well, for keeping Brat while in '06, '07, '08, '09, and '10, the offense just looked worse and worse every year. I hope it was worth it for his wife to have her favorite bridge partner around or whatever role Brat's wife filled.

And finally, thank you Carson Palmer. I don't dislike you anymore. I love you for what you did. You not only spared us several more years of your inconsistent play, you forced Brat out of town. Every action has a reaction. You're a quitter, but you're a beautiful quitter.

[BengalszoneBilly]

So bottom line, if I see Bob Bratkowski, I will either kick him in the shin, or hold him down and make him listen to my wife's standard lecture about how he should eat less processed food and get his prostate checked.

That may fall under the rules of cruel and unusual punishment.

[volcom69]

Listening to the broadcast i think it was Lap who said, they have run the same running play over and over, and they should continue to do that unit the defense shows they can stop it.

[cincyhokie]

Earlier this year Whit was quoted as saying something like, and I'm paraphrasing, "This year we are doing what we want to do, making the defense try to stop us. Last year we just tried to react to everything the defense was doing."

Now on Thursday night's broadcast of the Bengals/Panther's game, this exchange occurred:

Brad Johansen - "And this is a completely different offense than this team had last year. And as we talked to Marvin Lewis 'bout last year, it's... this year it's like not starting from scratch every week, which is what it felt like last year for this team. It is building upon what works, adding to the terminology and it seems to be grasped a little bit easier for these guys on this offensive team.

Anthony Munoz - "Well, what I've noticed so far, at least from the passing game, it's a lot quicker, especially with a young quarterback, it gives him a chance to be successful a lot earlier. To me it looks like a lot of the same runs, but, you know, it doesn't have to be that complex when you get to the running game. It's the passing game that has a tendency to be pretty complex, and right here it looks like you look one place, boom you're going another place. You're throwing the ball so quickly to different areas that it's up to the wide reciever to get open quickly. You don't have to protect forever as an offensive lineman because the quarterback's back seven or ten yards."

So bottom line, if I see Bob Bratkowski, I will either kick him in the shin, or hold him down and make him listen to my wife's standard lecture about how he should eat less processed food and get his prostate checked.

Mike is at fault as well, for keeping Brat while in '06, '07, '08, '09, and '10, the offense just looked worse and worse every year. I hope it was worth it for his wife to have her favorite bridge partner around or whatever role Brat's wife filled.

And finally, thank you Carson Palmer. I don't dislike you anymore. I love you for what you did. You not only spared us several more years of your inconsistent play, you forced Brat out of town. Every action has a reaction. You're a quitter, but you're a beautiful quitter.

Tears. Tears of joy just came to me as I read this post.

[Spor_tees]

It's been awhile since I have been around the board, but I have to say it is a shame that this new type of philosophy wasn't around earlier when the offense was stacked with proven weapons. I am a true believer that if you know you are stronger than your opponent in a certain area, you do what you are best at and make THEM try to stop you instead of running plays you think would work best against what they do.

When you run the plays and type of offense that is most comfortable and gives you the best results, there is less likelihood for the dreaded three and outs, turnovers, or penalties. That is going to be especially true this year with a rookie QB and WR. It will be interesting to see how many fewer penalties there will be this year on offense. Nothing kills a scoring drive more than false starts, delay of games, illegal formations, and holding penalties. If the penalties continue upfront in the offensive line, there is only one person that will be at fault, Mr. Alexander.

[skyline]

I wasn't as much of a Brat hater as everyone else, but I do like what I've seen from Gruden.

What stands out to me the most is that he isn't afraid to keep going back to what works. Brat NEVER would have had Benson run the ball 16 times in what was essentially 1 quarter. Never. Preseason, regular season, or playoffs. But hey...if it works, then why not, right?

[cincy9275]

Listening to the broadcast i think it was Lap who said, they have run the same running play over and over, and they should continue to do that unit the defense shows they can stop it.

funny remind me of a tressel story. jim was coaching his first game at youngstown. the first play was a run, and gained 11 yards. so jim ran the same play 5 more times. the assistant coach said we have more plays coach you ran the same one five times. tressel replies i know as soon as they stop this one we'll run something else.

[BengalszoneBilly]

funny remind me of a tressel story. jim was coaching his first game at youngstown. the first play was a run, and gained 11 yards. so jim ran the same play 5 more times. the assistant coach said we have more plays coach you ran the same one five times. tressel replies i know as soon as they stop this one we'll run something else.

That is funny!

[cincyhokie]

For the first time that I can remember as a Bengals fan I really like both coordinators. We'll find out more about Gruden but so far I like his approach. This could be a fun year.

[volcom69]

Listening to the broadcast i think it was Lap who said, they have run the same running play over and over, and they should continue to do that unit the defense shows they can stop it.

funny remind me of a tressel story. jim was coaching his first game at youngstown. the first play was a run, and gained 11 yards. so jim ran the same play 5 more times. the assistant coach said we have more plays coach you ran the same one five times. tressel replies i know as soon as they stop this one we'll run something else.

Yep and its so true why not if they cant stop it, why stop running the play LOL

[kingwilly]

I wasn't as much of a Brat hater as everyone else, but I do like what I've seen from Gruden.

What stands out to me the most is that he isn't afraid to keep going back to what works. Brat NEVER would have had Benson run the ball 16 times in what was essentially 1 quarter. Never. Preseason, regular season, or playoffs. But hey...if it works, then why not, right?

There are a few things I have noticed, now after watching that game twice.

I think Benson is going to have a ridiculous season. Seriously. He can handle 30+ carries a game and they will go to him heavy. We have not seen anything but vanilla offense yet, so if they can blend in an up-tempo/no-huddle at times and alternate with the quick hit passes, and Benson getting the ball, there won't be a defense who can play with them into the 4th quarter. Once it late in a game, Scott and Leonard with fresh legs will be untouchable.

Also, I think Gruden's plan will include much more changes of tempo. quick, quick, quick, slow, quick, slow. This unpredictable approach will also create confusion and mismatches, and I think this plays into the strength of the team. Gresham is a mismatch, Green in single coverage is a mismatch everytime. Ship with an LB, Simpson covered by a safety, etc. These will occur if the tempo is all jacked up. Knowing where to go, when to go, go, go, and then pause, and go. That's the way to find the weakness and mismatches.

When Dalton has to go deep, he needs to have a 7 step drop and then step up, maybe even roll out. His arm is simply not strong enough to hit the long range lasers, and that's probably going to be OK. He could not really throw the ball 50 yards, but big deal. He does not need to. They do need to go deep enough to keep safeties form cheating, and Green and Simpson on fly routes will force them to pay attention, even if Dalton would be hard pressed to get the ball there.

Gresham needs to find the seam faster. He kind of ambles on routes and does not look to naturally go to the open spot. TE is a bit more feel that WR. WR is precision and crispness. TE is getting between and below or above. Soft spots. He needs to find those spots and his ypc will go way up.

Gruden has quite a lot to work with. This can work as long as they don't overthink it. It does not have to set a qhole bunch of records, just produce one more point than the opponent in each game. Just one more point. Win.

[ArmyBengal]

This is what happens when a new OC is brought in and they go after a QB that fits the system they want to run.

You know, as opposed to getting a QB and forcing him to adapt to HOW they run thing.

I think it's why Dalton will be successful. Is he the best ever ?? Of course not, but in THIS system, I think he will succeed.

I was saying early on this season will be more interesting to watch simply from the standpoint that it won't be the predictable offense that Brat ran week in and week out. The same old same old had ran its course and Gruden provides something fresh. It could all go up in flames, but I will have a front seat to watch it all unfold. Funny thing ?? I'm looking forward to it regardless of the outcome.

Hate Brat ?? Nope, just happy he's not calling plays here anymore.

[volcom69]

I wasn't as much of a Brat hater as everyone else, but I do like what I've seen from Gruden.

What stands out to me the most is that he isn't afraid to keep going back to what works. Brat NEVER would have had Benson run the ball 16 times in what was essentially 1 quarter. Never. Preseason, regular season, or playoffs. But hey...if it works, then why not, right?

There are a few things I have noticed, now after watching that game twice.

I think Benson is going to have a ridiculous season. Seriously. He can handle 30+ carries a game and they will go to him heavy. We have not seen anything but vanilla offense yet, so if they can blend in an up-tempo/no-huddle at times and alternate with the quick hit passes, and Benson getting the ball, there won't be a defense who can play with them into the 4th quarter. Once it late in a game, Scott and Leonard with fresh legs will be untouchable.

Also, I think Gruden's plan will include much more changes of tempo. quick, quick, quick, slow, quick, slow. This unpredictable approach will also create confusion and mismatches, and I think this plays into the strength of the team. Gresham is a mismatch, Green in single coverage is a mismatch everytime. Ship with an LB, Simpson covered by a safety, etc. These will occur if the tempo is all jacked up. Knowing where to go, when to go, go, go, and then pause, and go. That's the way to find the weakness and mismatches.

When Dalton has to go deep, he needs to have a 7 step drop and then step up, maybe even roll out. His arm is simply not strong enough to hit the long range lasers, and that's probably going to be OK. He could not really throw the ball 50 yards, but big deal. He does not need to. They do need to go deep enough to keep safeties form cheating, and Green and Simpson on fly routes will force them to pay attention, even if Dalton would be hard pressed to get the ball there.

Gresham needs to find the seam faster. He kind of ambles on routes and does not look to naturally go to the open spot. TE is a bit more feel that WR. WR is precision and crispness. TE is getting between and below or above. Soft spots. He needs to find those spots and his ypc will go way up.

Gruden has quite a lot to work with. This can work as long as they don't overthink it. It does not have to set a qhole bunch of records, just produce one more point than the opponent in each game. Just one more point. Win.

He did over throw Green on that one pass at the end of the half, so i do think he has the arm to throw deep, he just needs to learn how much air, and how hard to throw the ball. Things he will learn as the season goes on, his arm may not be huge, but like you said it really dosnt have to be.

[volcom69]

This is what happens when a new OC is brought in and they go after a QB that fits the system they want to run.

You know, as opposed to getting a QB and forcing him to adapt to HOW they run thing.

I think it's why Dalton will be successful. Is he the best ever ?? Of course not, but in THIS system, I think he will succeed.

I was saying early on this season will be more interesting to watch simply from the standpoint that it won't be the predictable offense that Brat ran week in and week out. The same old same old had ran its course and Gruden provides something fresh. It could all go up in flames, but I will have a front seat to watch it all unfold. Funny thing ?? I'm looking forward to it regardless of the outcome.

Hate Brat ?? Nope, just happy he's not calling plays here anymore.

I think it was Phil Simms who was talking about the rookie QBs, and said Dalton already looks comfortable. He was saying how Newton and others have to transiton to the NFL, and learn all new things, where as Dalton can come in and run that offense.

[Sea Ray]

It's been awhile since I have been around the board, but I have to say it is a shame that this new type of philosophy wasn't around earlier when the offense was stacked with proven weapons. I am a true believer that if you know you are stronger than your opponent in a certain area, you do what you are best at and make THEM try to stop you instead of running plays you think would work best against what they do.

When you run the plays and type of offense that is most comfortable and gives you the best results, there is less likelihood for the dreaded three and outs, turnovers, or penalties. That is going to be especially true this year with a rookie QB and WR. It will be interesting to see how many fewer penalties there will be this year on offense. Nothing kills a scoring drive more than false starts, delay of games, illegal formations, and holding penalties. If the penalties continue upfront in the offensive line, there is only one person that will be at fault, Mr. Alexander.

I don't know. In my opinion Brat did do whatever he wanted and as a result we had a very predictable offense. I think in the NFL you have to give your oponent his due. They're not idiots. If he knows what you're running he will come up with a plan to stop you. I think our O has to be creative and fool the D from time to time

[Spor_tees]

It's been awhile since I have been around the board, but I have to say it is a shame that this new type of philosophy wasn't around earlier when the offense was stacked with proven weapons. I am a true believer that if you know you are stronger than your opponent in a certain area, you do what you are best at and make THEM try to stop you instead of running plays you think would work best against what they do.

When you run the plays and type of offense that is most comfortable and gives you the best results, there is less likelihood for the dreaded three and outs, turnovers, or penalties. That is going to be especially true this year with a rookie QB and WR. It will be interesting to see how many fewer penalties there will be this year on offense. Nothing kills a scoring drive more than false starts, delay of games, illegal formations, and holding penalties. If the penalties continue upfront in the offensive line, there is only one person that will be at fault, Mr. Alexander.

I don't know. In my opinion Brat did do whatever he wanted and as a result we had a very predictable offense. I think in the NFL you have to give your oponent his due. They're not idiots. If he knows what you're running he will come up with a plan to stop you. I think our O has to be creative and fool the D from time to time

I can give you a good example of what I am talking about. Take the Pittsburgh Steelers offense. Everyone and their brother knows what they are going to do every game. They are going to try to strike early until they get about a 14 point lead, then they will hit you with a trick play, followed by pounding the ball on the ground and running the clock out. It's the same thing almost every game. It's worked pretty well for them over the last few years, no? Teams know what's coming but they just can't stop it. One key for the Steelers is, they draft players that fit their system instead of trying to get players and make them fit their system. They have an identity and they impose their will on other teams instead of trying to find weaknesses in other teams and change their game plan every week.

[jjakq27]

This is what happens when a new OC is brought in and they go after a QB that fits the system they want to run.

You know, as opposed to getting a QB and forcing him to adapt to HOW they run thing.

I think it's why Dalton will be successful. Is he the best ever ?? Of course not, but in THIS system, I think he will succeed.

I was saying early on this season will be more interesting to watch simply from the standpoint that it won't be the predictable offense that Brat ran week in and week out. The same old same old had ran its course and Gruden provides something fresh. It could all go up in flames, but I will have a front seat to watch it all unfold. Funny thing ?? I'm looking forward to it regardless of the outcome.

Hate Brat ?? Nope, just happy he's not calling plays here anymore.

I struggled with the Brat thing since 2006 and then finally had enough after last season. It was difficult to have issues with a guy that coordinated an offense that re-wrote a bunch of the Bengals record book while he was here. Two playoff births and and third were it not for Shayne Graham's shank at the end of 2006 during his tenure and a bunch of attention for their offensive players. Yet for me something was always missing. Kinda like when Adam Dunn was hitting 40 HR's but only driving in 80 runs. The numbers were hollow and empty at times.

The honeymoon for Jay Gruden hasn't even begun so I am withholding judgment on him for awhile. However, I am really happy with the approach and promise of being up-tempo on offense. I just think the team was burdened by Brat's offense at times and the delay penalties or blown routes may have been a by-product of that.

I think it was Phil Simms who was talking about the rookie QBs, and said Dalton already looks comfortable. He was saying how Newton and others have to transiton to the NFL, and learn all new things, where as Dalton can come in and run that offense.

I will use the example of the 1999 draft when comparing Newton and Dalton. The comparison at the time was the progress of McNabb and Culpepper versus Akili Smith. McNabb and Culpepper were three year starters while Smith was an 8 game wonder at Oregon. I think we are seeing the same thing this year. Plus I was not impressed with Newton during Jon Gruden's QB show. He couldn't even remember a play that he ran at Auburn. Compare that to some of the other guys he had on that could probably teach their college offense to someone. Newton will get by with his raw physical skill but that will only get him so far. It may be a long year for him and I wouldn't be surprised to see Claussen starting at some point.

[walzav29]

It's a shame they didn't get rid of Chad years ago. You can really notice a difference when the WR's block. It's also great not hearing Chad and Terrell's mouths.

[cincy9275]

I wasn't as much of a Brat hater as everyone else, but I do like what I've seen from Gruden.

What stands out to me the most is that he isn't afraid to keep going back to what works. Brat NEVER would have had Benson run the ball 16 times in what was essentially 1 quarter. Never. Preseason, regular season, or playoffs. But hey...if it works, then why not, right?

There are a few things I have noticed, now after watching that game twice.

I think Benson is going to have a ridiculous season. Seriously. He can handle 30+ carries a game and they will go to him heavy. We have not seen anything but vanilla offense yet, so if they can blend in an up-tempo/no-huddle at times and alternate with the quick hit passes, and Benson getting the ball, there won't be a defense who can play with them into the 4th quarter. Once it late in a game, Scott and Leonard with fresh legs will be untouchable.

Also, I think Gruden's plan will include much more changes of tempo. quick, quick, quick, slow, quick, slow. This unpredictable approach will also create confusion and mismatches, and I think this plays into the strength of the team. Gresham is a mismatch, Green in single coverage is a mismatch everytime. Ship with an LB, Simpson covered by a safety, etc. These will occur if the tempo is all jacked up. Knowing where to go, when to go, go, go, and then pause, and go. That's the way to find the weakness and mismatches.

When Dalton has to go deep, he needs to have a 7 step drop and then step up, maybe even roll out. His arm is simply not strong enough to hit the long range lasers, and that's probably going to be OK. He could not really throw the ball 50 yards, but big deal. He does not need to. They do need to go deep enough to keep safeties form cheating, and Green and Simpson on fly routes will force them to pay attention, even if Dalton would be hard pressed to get the ball there.

Gresham needs to find the seam faster. He kind of ambles on routes and does not look to naturally go to the open spot. TE is a bit more feel that WR. WR is precision and crispness. TE is getting between and below or above. Soft spots. He needs to find those spots and his ypc will go way up.

Gruden has quite a lot to work with. This can work as long as they don't overthink it. It does not have to set a qhole bunch of records, just produce one more point than the opponent in each game. Just one more point. Win.

He did over throw Green on that one pass at the end of the half, so i do think he has the arm to throw deep, he just needs to learn how much air, and how hard to throw the ball. Things he will learn as the season goes on, his arm may not be huge, but like you said it really dosnt have to be.

the one thing i did notice about dalton. he is not setting his feet on the deep passes. he has a tendency to throw of his back foot, needs to plan his foot and drive the ball. again something that time will fix.

[HairOnFire]

Earlier this year Whit was quoted as saying something like, and I'm paraphrasing, "This year we are doing what we want to do, making the defense try to stop us. Last year we just tried to react to everything the defense was doing."

Please forgive my weakness, but I can't resist.

"Told ya."

In the last two years I must have written a few dozen posts about the Bengals shift away from an offense that attempted to dictate to a defense to one based almost entirely upon reading what a defense was doing and reacting to it. And again, I think it all came to a head in the Bengal/Brown game where Owens goes off for over 200 yards receiving and multiple scores yet could be heard postgame wondering aloud why the Bengals couldn't force teams to abandon the extra defender in the box.

Bottom Line, if all you're doing is taking what a defense willingly gives you're not earning anything. Worse, you're guilty of letting opposing teams dictate how you play without forcing them to stop you.

[cincyhokie]

Bernard Scott on the new offense.

/>http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Monday-roundup-Scott-romps-in-new-look/30fec65c-e1e8-41b0-952a-0aa133e4ed42

“When you see it, you hit it. You don’t have to do too much reading. You can just go out there and play off your natural instincts,” Scott said. “The last offense it was like you had two or three different keys you needed to read. To me, I could just never let it loose. I was reading and trying to play perfect instead of just playing football.”

[kingwilly]

Bernard Scott on the new offense.

/>http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Monday-roundup-Scott-romps-in-new-look/30fec65c-e1e8-41b0-952a-0aa133e4ed42

“When you see it, you hit it. You don’t have to do too much reading. You can just go out there and play off your natural instincts,” Scott said. “The last offense it was like you had two or three different keys you needed to read. To me, I could just never let it loose. I was reading and trying to play perfect instead of just playing football.”

When they ran the same running play, again and again and again, at the Carolina D, it told me there was no shred of the Brat offense anywhere on this team. Thank freaking God.

Now, let's all be keen to observe how Brat's impact on Matt Ryan goes.

[membengal]

This thread makes me happy.

[COB]

“The last offense it was like you had two or three different keys you needed to read. To me, I could just never let it loose. I was reading and trying to play perfect instead of just playing football.”

If I lived in Atlanta I'd head over to Brat's right now with torch, pitchfork, and the blind rage I feel every time I look back on his offense that was so smart his own players couldn't figure it out.