Face, Meet Palm

[HoosierCat]

Bengals offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski Jay Gruden:

"We've been focusing on ball control, but it's hard nowadays to keep having eight-, 10-, 12-play drives. You have to get the big chunk."

So, we're back to "chunks" again already? That didn't take long.

[COB]

And from the dot com, Alexander is mystified by the criticism of Nate Livings. To defend Livings, Alexander brings up a player who 10 years ago sucked under Alexander, then got coached up in San Diego into a good player. Nice defense there.

Hey Paul Alexander, I'm trying to remember Mike Goff, but I can't get past the hundreds of images of safeties trampling Eric Girlcheck on the way to sacking Palmer. Alexander might be a good coach, but his unwillingness to lobby the team for better personnel makes him useless.

Offensive line coach Paul Alexander rolls his eyes at the criticism leveled at left guard Nate Livings in the wake of the sack he allowed Friday night. Everyone, it seems, wants Livings benched and Alexander's first question is, "Who replaces him?" And it reminds him of the heat guard Mike Goff took 10 years ago before he became a starter on some very good San Diego playoff teams.

"They don't know what the hell is going on," Alexander said of the critics. "I stood up for Goff all the time. He got run out of this town. Goff played until he was 35. I read the stuff about Nate. I don’t think it's fair about Nate.

[ArmyBengal]

"They don't know what the hell is going on"

Oh really ?? And how hard is it to determine that the player he currently loves CONSISTENTLY gets beat and his man then destroys our QB ??

Whose fault is that exactly ?? If it's not because of the player that is so stellar then it has to be the coaching right ??

Pick your poison Alexander. Either Livings sucks or YOU do. I think it's dual hatted.

In regards to Gruden and needing the "Big Chunk" plays, I would say he's right. You do need the big chunk plays, but you have to create those situations and we will probably struggle with that considering our inexperience at many offensive positions. I think this team will still be best served working the middle of the field as much as possible and run the hell out of Benson. In doing that, the guys on the outside should get their shot.

Oh here's another one for the genious coaches. STOP TRYING TO GET THAT BIG CHUNK ON THE FIRST PLAY OF EVERY F*CKING GAME !!!

I think that play has been the staple of the Bengals for decades.

[cincyhokie]

Are you kidding me? If we ever needed something to point to the COMPLETE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY this is it.

Alexander: "It's just not fair, that people are criticizing him for letting people through to crush the quarterback! -stomps foot- Remember that one guy we had here 8 years ago??? Remember??? He was made fun of and then he got good! See? See?"

What in THE f**k would allow you to make these bulls**t comments to a reporter. Open your f**king eyes and see what everyone else is. Livings SUCKS! Obviously, Dusty f**king Baker has been hanging around the coaching staff and infused his "feelings before winning" mindset.

This is the most disappointing thing I've read since the season started.

[cincyhokie]

"Who replaces him?" And it reminds him of the heat guard Mike Goff took 10 years ago before he became a starter on some very good San Diego playoff teams.

A wet bag of s**t? A bucket of rusty nails? A ball of belly button lint?

[HoosierCat]

Well, not to defend Alexander but in asking "who replaces him," he does have a point. Philly's o-line isn't a world-beater and even they didn't want MJG back. Hudson is on crutches and may be a scratch for the season. Boling is a rookie. I would like to see Collins at LG but the word is that they view him as the main backup at both tackles and aren't willing to get him injured playing guard.

At this point, about the only recommendation I can make is that Andy Dalton buy injury and life insurance in "chunks."

[Sea Ray]

I'm glad to hear statements like that from Gruden because I was concerned they'd fall in love with a dink and dunk offense. Fact is you need a disciplined O and a stout D to run such a thing and this team has neither. The O will tend to get off schedule with penalties and that doesn't lend itself to 10+ play drives. Plus the fact that we have weapons that can stretch the field.

[membengal]

Boling to start over Livings would be fine with me. Then again, I never understood why Mathis was benched for Livings last year. Given Mathis' comments upon leaving, he didn't either.

Alexander, well, he puzzles me.

[HoosierCat]

I'm glad to hear statements like that from Gruden because I was concerned they'd fall in love with a dink and dunk offense. Fact is you need a disciplined O and a stout D to run such a thing and this team has neither. The O will tend to get off schedule with penalties and that doesn't lend itself to 10+ play drives. Plus the fact that we have weapons that can stretch the field.

I don't mind if they want to mix in a shot downfield now and then. But "chunks" has been code for "throwing the ball all over the field" for years and I would rather see them stick to their original run-first talk after seeing our offensive offensive line last week.

[kingwilly]

Boling to start over Livings would be fine with me. Then again, I never understood why Mathis was benched for Livings last year. Given Mathis' comments upon leaving, he didn't either.

Alexander, well, he puzzles me.

Good thing there is a feture coming up on Alexander and his use of playing the piano that help him and his

"students"....

As for who will play guard should they finally realize Livings is a lump of stool, there will be quite a number of FA available once cut-downs begin to happen over th enxt 10-14 days.

[ArmyBengal]

EVERYONE knew Guard was a huge, glaring, gaping hole that was a MUST to have filled. Even Marvin acknowledged the same in his comments about the position.

Then they go out and do what exactly ?? Get rid of Mathis and keep Livings. Don't make ANY type of move to get one of the MANY guards that were available in free agency that would have made a huge upgrade and impact to the o-line and help protect your rookie QB. Sign a guy that wasn't wanted on an o-line in Philly that isn't that good to begin with.

They drafted Boling and now all of my hopes and prayers rest on the shoulders of a 4th round rookie to be better than what we currently have on the roster. Problem with Boling ?? Nothing, except that f*cking Alexander doesn't know which Guard position to play him at. ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME ?? YOU DON'T F*CKING KNOW ?? Does he somehow think that they need to develop Boling to be the 3rd RG on the roster ??

Someone please start a "FIRE ALEXANDER" thread to drive this assclown out of town.

Seriously, next offseason will be dubbed a success if they can his ass.

[HairOnFire]

I'm glad to hear statements like that from Gruden because I was concerned they'd fall in love with a dink and dunk offense. Fact is you need a disciplined O and a stout D to run such a thing and this team has neither. The O will tend to get off schedule with penalties and that doesn't lend itself to 10+ play drives. Plus the fact that we have weapons that can stretch the field.

I don't mind if they want to mix in a shot downfield now and then. But "chunks" has been code for "throwing the ball all over the field" for years and I would rather see them stick to their original run-first talk after seeing our offensive offensive line last week.

Well, this seems to be a case where the plan HAS to be altered due to the reality they're being confronted with. Nutshelled, after the Detroit game Bengal coaches are attempting to address the offenses almost nonexistent threat to score despite a very high percent of passes completed AND a strong running game.

What do you do when the plan works and you still fail utterly?

You adjust, right?

You confront why you've failed and address it ASAP.

Chunk plays? Stepping on the gas? Gruden can talk up this offense all he wants, but with Andy Dalton under center and almost equally inexperienced players at nearly every skill position this team is simply too inexperienced at too many critical positions to compete...consistently.

That's just the way it is. It's the price you pay for getting the rookie QB on the field immediately. Because amongst other things that happen defenses no longer play you straight up. Rather, they let you run because they know that ultimately you can't win in the NFL until your QB is capable of making enough plays to beat you.

And there's the rub because the Bengals are far too young and inexperienced at too many critical positions to be consistent enough to play error free small ball. At best you develope that sort of timing and precision over months and years, not after a few weeks.

But damnit, they don't lack for talent. Nor are they without legit big play producers....at least on paper. And if defenses aren't going to respect this teams passing game OR it's running game until Dalton is capable of making them pay repeatedly....why not toss in a few plays that look to exploit the talent the Bengals have at every freaking offensive skill position, including specialists and backups?

Frankly, a few chunk plays seems like the least a Bengal fan should ask for when looking at a roster that includes the likes of Green, Simpson, Shipley, Caldwell, Gresham, Coffman, Scott, Leonard, Benson, and numerous others.

[jonahdsage]

For another face palm worthy event, note that A.J. green was just attended to on the field by a staff of trainers. As in, A.J. went down earlier in practice, walked it off, and has now gone down for a second time and is being attended to on the field. :frustrated:

[HoosierCat]

Hobs:

GeoffHobsonCin Geoff Hobson

Green going off with ice on back of right leg

3 minutes ago

Sigh...

[HoosierCat]

Well, this seems to be a case where the plan HAS to be altered due to the reality they're being confronted with. Nutshelled, after the Detroit game Bengal coaches are attempting to address the offenses almost nonexistent threat to score despite a very high percent of passes completed AND a strong running game.

Well, if they want to adjust, I have a few suggestions, like finding a better option than Nate "holding" Livings and not passing on 3rd and 2, to try before getting all chunky.

[jonahdsage]

For another face palm worthy event, note that A.J. green was just attended to on the field by a staff of trainers. As in, A.J. went down earlier in practice, walked it off, and has now gone down for a second time and is being attended to on the field. :frustrated:

He's up having his knee iced per Reedy.

[HairOnFire]

Alexander might be a good coach, but his unwillingness to lobby the team for better personnel makes him useless.

Useless to fans who want different, but by the same token a near perfect choice to coach for a team that has always undervalued ALL of the interior offensive line positions.

IMHO Alexander doesn't lobby for better talent because his schemes are rooted in sealing or walling off a defender at the LOS rather than blowing him off the ball or attacking defenders on the second level. Thus, he can not only get by with less talented interior blockers, but he's built a scheme around players who aren't athletic or highly skilled. Rather, they're mostly power players. Phone booth guys. Short area maulers and brawlers. Or if you prefer, slab-sided guys of a useful size who lack exceptional skills.

[HairOnFire]

Well, this seems to be a case where the plan HAS to be altered due to the reality they're being confronted with. Nutshelled, after the Detroit game Bengal coaches are attempting to address the offenses almost nonexistent threat to score despite a very high percent of passes completed AND a strong running game.

Well, if they want to adjust, I have a few suggestions, like finding a better option than Nate "holding" Livings and not passing on 3rd and 2, to try before getting all chunky.

Seems to me you're preaching to the already converted.

That said, I believe an offense that is too conservative will only serve to make your existing weaknesses more glaring. Furthermore, the Bengals can't solve their core offensive problem by substituting one play calling inbalance for another.

[volcom69]

For another face palm worthy event, note that A.J. green was just attended to on the field by a staff of trainers. As in, A.J. went down earlier in practice, walked it off, and has now gone down for a second time and is being attended to on the field. :frustrated:

He's up having his knee iced per Reedy.

Looks like hes back on the field just no more practice today, i think they took the ice off. Reedy said that he is not walking with a limp, it does not appear to be serious

[HoosierCat]

Joe breaks down all of Livings' snaps here:

/>http://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/8/17/2366971/bengals-player-report-card-nate-livings-vs-lions#comments

He actually grades out (just) positively for the game.

[Walrus]

EVERYONE knew Guard was a huge, glaring, gaping hole that was a MUST to have filled. Even Marvin acknowledged the same in his comments about the position.

Then they go out and do what exactly ?? Get rid of Mathis and keep Livings. Don't make ANY type of move to get one of the MANY guards that were available in free agency that would have made a huge upgrade and impact to the o-line and help protect your rookie QB. Sign a guy that wasn't wanted on an o-line in Philly that isn't that good to begin with.

They drafted Boling and now all of my hopes and prayers rest on the shoulders of a 4th round rookie to be better than what we currently have on the roster. Problem with Boling ?? Nothing, except that f*cking Alexander doesn't know which Guard position to play him at. ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME ?? YOU DON'T F*CKING KNOW ?? Does he somehow think that they need to develop Boling to be the 3rd RG on the roster ??

Someone please start a "FIRE ALEXANDER" thread to drive this assclown out of town.

Seriously, next offseason will be dubbed a success if they can his ass.

I'm a little late to the "Fire Alexander" mob, but those recent comments from him about Livings at least have me drawing near to warm my hands by the fire (and searching the garage for my pitchfork).

[cincyhokie]

Joe breaks down all of Livings' snaps here:

/>http://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/8/17/2366971/bengals-player-report-card-nate-livings-vs-lions#comments

He actually grades out (just) positively for the game.

Eye test. I just don't think that subjective statistics are an accurate way to grade individual play especially in a position such as OL. Palmer was not sacked in his last 99 passes last season. Did anyone not see him throw inaccurately due to being pressured or hurried.

Columinists like Joe Reedy and Lance McAlister can provide "window dressing" stats all day to influence what our own eyes see. Does Livings' play pass the eye test?

[HoosierCat]

Columinists like Joe Reedy and Lance McAlister can provide "window dressing" stats all day to influence what our own eyes see. Does Livings' play pass the eye test?

Ya might want to actually click on the link. Joe (not Reedy) is giving you exactly what you are asking for...

[wpeldios]

I can see where Alexander is coming from here. After all if people were expected to perform well at their jobs he would of been out of work a long time ago. Its like the movie pay it forward except instead of making the world a better place this all leads back to Mike Browns attempt to make cincy doormat of the nfl. And its working. This is proof that everything we see in the movies is possible. Which brings me to my next plan, make a movie about a successful nfl franchise in cincy. Random side note i really got sidetracked on that tangent there. I was all over the place.

[cincyhokie]

Columinists like Joe Reedy and Lance McAlister can provide "window dressing" stats all day to influence what our own eyes see. Does Livings' play pass the eye test?

Ya might want to actually click on the link. Joe (not Reedy) is giving you exactly what you are asking for...

Ha. Got it. I still hate subjective stats.

That was a really good breakdown on the plays. I do hope that Joe is getting compensated for his time on doing that. Seems like alot of work.