Worst offseason ever?

[walzav29]

QB decides to quit

Lead the league in offseason arrests (including starting tailback)

Lockout prevents our new OC to work with team

More humiliation in regards to Wall St. Journal article and ESPN ranking

I can usually garner hope under and circumstance, but I'm running out of steam

2-14 looks to be the road we're on. If the Bengals end up with the #1 pick in the 2012 draft. Is Andrew Luck a no brainer?

[combatbengal]

We just drafted Dalton so I don't think we'll go after Luck, although i would love to see him in Bengal orange!

[walzav29]

That would be interesting. I mean Luck seems like Elway. I mean a slam dunk. I don't know if they can pass on him if they get the #1. Who knows how this horrible season will end up. The Raiders may just win 1 game.

[volcom69]

I wouldnt say the worst offseason, in fact i will call this a great offseason, if they get rid of the trash!!

If Chad leaves

If Carson leaves

If they dont re-sign Cedric, remember he is not a Bengal when the season starts

If Pac-man leaves

I would call that a success if this happens because it tells me they are willing to move on from players who think about themselves, and players who just dont understand what getting another chance is all about!!

Time to rebuild this team with good high character guys, i think through the draft they started it, so i would not call this the worst offseason at all. Now all through out the 90's those offseasons sucked!!

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Can you imagine how long Luck will hold out if drafted here, if he even accepted to play here?

Carson leaving gives the Bengals' an even worse perception problem from the players and FA's.

This why the Bengals' are forced to go to guys like Benson, Pac Man, and Tank.

Until they do things such as add the practice facility, set higher standards and hire a GM and change their foolish, cheap ways, things aren't going to change.

And the message has been sent - Mike Brown is perfectly happy with a division championship every 5 years if that's the high bar mark with Marvin.

And I can tell you that without a QB like Carson, this team isn't even going to achieve that. I feel for Dalton, who is a middling talent that needed the right situation to succeed in - he won't here I'm afraid. At his best he may get them to be a .500 team. I expect Fitzpatrick-like results from him here.

[HairOnFire]

QB decides to quit

More accurately, the franchise player quit.

Everything else mentioned, including the impact of the lockout, don't amount to a puddle of warm spit when compared to Palmer's actions. They alone were enough to doom the coming season, if not the next one too.

If the Bengals end up with the #1 pick in the 2012 draft. Is Andrew Luck a no brainer?

Perhaps. Whether by accident or by design the Bengals decision to NOT use a 1st round pick on a new QB dovetails neatly with my own grand plan for dealing with Palmer's threat to retire. The exact actions I had advocated were taken, right?

Yet despite the apparent lockstep I can easily admit what the Bengals couldn't say aloud under any circumstance. Specifically, I currently don't see Andy Dalton as an acceptable starting QB. Instead, I see Dalton as a player who COULD start immediately if under duress, but also...a player who wouldn't be considered more than a backup without the looming threat of Palmer's power play. So regardless of what the Bengals say or do going forward I remind myself how they deliberately refused to spend so much for instant QB insurance to make the commitment to any replacemnt, including Dalton, difficult to break. Should Dalton struggle more than they can accept the Bengals can very easily shift their focus to Andrew Luck or someone else, moving Dalton into the exact same primary backup role he'd be limited to today if this team weren't currently operating under duress.

[BengalPimp]

And I can tell you that without a QB like Carson, this team isn't even going to achieve that. I feel for Dalton, who is a middling talent that needed the right situation to succeed in - he won't here I'm afraid. At his best he may get them to be a .500 team. I expect Fitzpatrick-like results from him here.

Am I going crazy? Because I actually agree with Shula.......What's this world coming to?

[BengalPimp]

That would be interesting. I mean Luck seems like Elway. I mean a slam dunk. I don't know if they can pass on him if they get the #1. Who knows how this horrible season will end up. The Raiders may just win 1 game.

I think I might be happier with the #2 Pick and LANDRY JONES. Landry Jones is better than Sam Bradford was at OU, and I believe will be a much better Pro as well.

[ArmyBengal]

Well if Dalton can get this team to .500 in his rookie year, that would have to be looked upon as something pretty f*cking special.

What I don't get is thinking Palmer, who would be put into a new scheme, with a new OC, would improve upon his 4 win performance from last season.

While I think he would be the more stable choice, I couldn't automatically assume he would have a stellar season.

I also don't want him back, so there's that...

[membengal]

...

[membengal]

And I can tell you that without a QB like Carson, this team isn't even going to achieve that. I feel for Dalton, who is a middling talent that needed the right situation to succeed in - he won't here I'm afraid. At his best he may get them to be a .500 team. I expect Fitzpatrick-like results from him here.

Am I going crazy? Because I actually agree with Shula.......What's this world coming to?

Predicting the Bengals to struggle this year hardly makes him or you Nostradamus. Just the latest in a long line of us saying the same thing.

[BengalPimp]

And I can tell you that without a QB like Carson, this team isn't even going to achieve that. I feel for Dalton, who is a middling talent that needed the right situation to succeed in - he won't here I'm afraid. At his best he may get them to be a .500 team. I expect Fitzpatrick-like results from him here.

Am I going crazy? Because I actually agree with Shula.......What's this world coming to?

Predicting the Bengals to struggle this year hardly makes him or you Nostradamus. Just the latest in a long line of us saying the same thing.

Uh, Mem, from what I read of his post it was more of Dalton and what he will do as a Bengal career-wise, NOT this year & how he might have benefitted being drafted by another team/organization. Everybody knows the Bengals will struggle this year yes, but I took what he said to mean that the best Dalton would make the Bengals (ever) would be a .500 team. Maybe I interpreted it wrong. I dunno.

I've said from day 1 and I stand behind my thinking that Dalton will never be a quality NFL QB. I hope he proves me wrong, but I Really wanted to wait until next year's crop of QB's (Luck, Landry Jones, Matt Barkley) came out to select one.

This year's QB class could very well go down as one of the worst ever.

[membengal]

Not sure on what measure you will be using for success for Dalton this year. This year is going to be awful, from stem to stern. If he guides the team to a 4-12 year, is he a bust? Not gonna be able to say that after 2011. For better or worse, Dalton is the ride this team is on, and it will be for more than just this year.

The Bengals are in a tough spot at qb when you wanted to wait? Well, thank the quitter for that.

As it is, I am comfortable that Dalton was the best of a bad situation, and now Dalton gets to test those awesome intangibles that were a part of his scouting report.

[ArmyBengal]

As for "worst offseason ever", I am quickly reminded of the 90's where the draft, or anything else for that matter, held no hope of improvement.

You went into the season with very little to look forward to regardless of expected outcome.

This season might be another 4-12 mess (I personally think a 6-8 win season is possible) but there are many things I am excited about moving forward:

I do in fact look forward to watching Dalton and AJ Green.

I want to see how things will turn out post Bratkowski, something EVERYONE should be watching closely and begged for.

I'm curious how guys like Dunlap, Gresham, Atkins, and Shipley will do in their second season.

Does Zimmer have it in him and the players to get the defensive unit back into the top 10 ??

What happens at safety with Reggie Nelson and Robert Sands ??

Who is our fullback ??

Does Chase Coffman finally figure things out and become the pass catching force he should be ??

Will Andre Smith show up motivated or motivated to collecting a check with little effort ??

There are more things, but you get my point. In the 90's, you would be lucky to name 2 things you looked forward to.

[HoosierCat]

Not sure on what measure you will be using for success for Dalton this year. This year is going to be awful, from stem to stern. If he guides the team to a 4-12 year, is he a bust?

Actually, if he gets to 4 wins he will equal Greg Cook, who is the only rookie in Bengals history to start right out of the gate. So that would actually be a pretty promising number.

The best any new Bengals QB -- veteran or noob -- has done in their first full season as a starter is 8 wins, and that was done only once, by Carson in 2004. There were several guys with 7 wins, including Boomer, Anderson and Virgil Carter. And then there are guys like Smith and O'Donnell who managed a whopping 2 wins each.

Bottom line, Bengals history says that the floor for any QB not named Carson Palmer is 2-14, the ceiling 8-8, this year. If Dalton gets to 4 wins, that will be a good number. Anything above that should raise expectations for 2012. If the Bengals somehow win 9 or more games with Dalton at the helm, start saving your money for a trip to the Super Bowl in February 2013.

[HairOnFire]

Not sure on what measure you will be using for success for Dalton this year.

Good question, and one that definately should be asked before the very first pass is thrown.

Simply put, when acknowledging the circumstances this team confronts...(ahem)...how should we fans attempt to grade or evaluate Dalton's rookie season? By statistics? By wins? By emotion? Will we grade him as an individual or as one small component of a much larger whole? What standards must be met before success can be claimed?

Speaking only for myself...(ahem)...I intend to use the Gradkowski Standard*, where a rookie quarterbacks performance isn't judged by how well he manages to replace an established starter, but rather....how well he performs when compared to the field of easily obtainable non-descript veteran QB's.

*Also known in some circles as the Seneca Wallace Standard.

[HairOnFire]

As it is, I am comfortable that Dalton was the best of a bad situation, and now Dalton gets to test those awesome intangibles that were a part of his scouting report.

This, mostly.

As crazy as it might sound I doubt we'll be able to acurately judge Dalton based upon the number of wins produced. In fact, most of you have already noted how difficult it would be for ANY quarterback to win more than a handful of games this season, and few of us can forget how poorly the veteran Palmer fared last season on a team that looked far better on paper than this one currently does. No, when attempting to judge Dalton by wins there are simply too many built in excuses and allowances to be meaningful UNLESS Dalton does the impossible and wins games by the buttload. But even then few of us believe such a thing is possible unless the Bengals successfully hide Dalton behind a strong running game. Only Jay Gruden is openly talking about stepping on the gas using a passing game built around Dalton.

Statistics? I guess it's possible to judge Dalton based upon statistics but just as with wins and losses....the same built in excuses and allowances for performance exist. But ignoring that for a moment, there is the example of Akili Smith and Mike Brown to consider. Nutshelled, Mike Brown once stated the Bengals own minimum acceptable standard for any starting QB, including rookies, was a full season averaging of 160 yards passing per game, a standard that was actually written into the incentive portion of Smith's contract. When Smith failed to meet that lowly standard it not only saved Brown millions in unpaid bonuses, but was said to be the statistical standard used by those in favor of ending the experiment we now call the Akili Smith Era*

* Nobody actually calls it that.

So yeah, there are statistics that can help. But mostly, I think we're going to judge Dalton with our guts, using empty speculation filtered through a rose colored filter.(WTF?) Or if you prefer, I think all too many of us will be willing to point to vague intangibles and moments of flashery as proof of something bigger that's waiting just around the corner. Wins and statistics won't count for much beyond the way they can and will be used to support positions that we've already formed.

As for me, I intend to judge Dalton by measuring his performance against the combined 65-75% passer rating of the mutts who now litter countless lists of veteran FA QB's. And yeah, if Dalton can't meet or surpass that type of modest performance I'll consider his debut to be a bust and will promptly begin the long slow chant for someone else.

[BengalszoneBilly]

how should we fans attempt to grade or evaluate Dalton's rookie season? By statistics? By wins? By emotion? Will we grade him as an individual or as one small component of a much larger whole? What standards must be met before success can be claimed?

Speaking only for myself...(ahem)...I intend to use the Gradkowski Standard*, where a rookie quarterbacks performance isn't judged by how well he manages to replace an established starter, but rather....how well he performs when compared to the field of easily obtainable non-descript veteran QB's.

*Also known in some circles as the Seneca Wallace Standard.

I don't think you can really grade rookie QB's by wins across the board. Ben Roethlisberger had quite a few in his debut season while Peyton Manning did not.

Personally I will be looking at emotion. Something Carson showed little of.

[volcom69]

Im excited to see Dalton play, i dont have really high expectations this year, but it will show alot. We can how he handles success, and how he handles losing. We can see how his leadership plays in, i know at TCU his leadership was great, so hope he brings that here.

Also the Bengals have the money this year to make a big splash in free agency, signing there own guys and other free agents. They have to spend the money so lets hope Brown opens his wallet this year LOL

[cincyhokie]

how should we fans attempt to grade or evaluate Dalton's rookie season? By statistics? By wins? By emotion? Will we grade him as an individual or as one small component of a much larger whole? What standards must be met before success can be claimed?

Speaking only for myself...(ahem)...I intend to use the Gradkowski Standard*, where a rookie quarterbacks performance isn't judged by how well he manages to replace an established starter, but rather....how well he performs when compared to the field of easily obtainable non-descript veteran QB's.

*Also known in some circles as the Seneca Wallace Standard.

I don't think you can really grade rookie QB's by wins across the board. Ben Roethlisberger had quite a few in his debut season while Peyton Manning did not.

Personally I will be looking at emotion. Something Carson showed little of.

I'll take it one step further and see if he reacts well to pressure and losing. If he can be a leader this team desperately needs, he'll be able to do both.

[BengalPimp]

Not sure on what measure you will be using for success for Dalton this year. This year is going to be awful, from stem to stern. If he guides the team to a 4-12 year, is he a bust?

My "measure of success" won't necessarily come from wins and losses, but rather from his ability to move the football. Stats are part of it, wins and losses is part, but the biggest will be how he moves the offense. I don't mind INT's coming from a Rookie QB, as I expect it, but if those INT's come on 1st or 2nd down at their own 20, then we have a problem. If he marches the team 60+ yards down the field then throws an ill-advised pass, I can deal with that and chalk it up to a correctable Rookie mistake. Fact is, he directed them 60+ yards.

As I've said before in other posts, guys like David Klingler and Akili Smith didn't really have terrible stats as far as INT's, their problem was, they could not move the offense to save their life. As long as Dalton doesn't go 3 and out all the time and completes say 58% or more of his passes, I'd see hope in that.

So basically, just move the football (score or not, just show the ability to) complete a decent %. The run game, defense, special teams, and coaching all have a hand in wins and loses as well, so that's not that important to me.