Free Agents

[membengal]

There aren't a whole lot of better options available, and if you have one, Please share......If your better option is Benson and his 3.4 yards per carry, You really have no argument.

Your bulls**t ypc argument is so full of holes it's barely worth responding to... and I haven't bothered to do so, until now.

Benson ran for 169 yards on 21 carries against the #1 rush defense in the NFL against the Jets in the playoff game in '09. And Cincy had no passing game to speak of, and the jets kept 8 in the box most of the game. Your insinuation that he's garbage is baseless.

Last year, the problem with the run game was the philosophy, not the personnel. I went through and took notes on every offensive play against Baltimore in week 2. The Bengals ran 50 plays out of a passing formation, and only 19 out of a run formation.

When they ran out of the passing formation, defenders were in the backfield immediately because there wasn't any blocking help with Shipley and Gresham lined up as WRs. The few times they did run the ball out of a run formation, they relied on Gresham, a player whose run blocking skills left penty to be desired... when the defense knew Benson was getting the ball.

Brat's philosophy hung Benson out to dry last year... and I was vocal about it forthe entire season. Ward would not have fared any better. And shifty RBs who come in and run for 7 yards on a 3rd and 10 might have a nice ypc average... but it doesn't add up to s**t at the end of the day.

Benson has proven to be a sturdy and reliable power RB. And if you want to succeed in the AFCN, you damn well better have a RB who can run over some people. Ward doesn't fit the description. Sorry.

I love this course description and will be attending this lecture.

[derekshank]

You have blamed the coaches, schemes, Offensive linemen, WR's blocking, TE blocking, basically everybody except Benson.

To be fair... I never blamed the O-Linemen, nor the WRs. I blamed the scheme change. A change that was almost certainly put in to appease Chad, T.O. and Palmer. Instead of tweaking an offense that featured a power running game, Brat and Marvin abandoned it. The strengths Benson brings to the table were not utilized. It wasn't Gresham or Shipley's fault. It wasn't even T.O. or Chad's fault. It was the fault of the philosophy... and Marvin admitted as much at the end of the season.

Is Benson a perfect RB? No. But he is a very good running back, and has proven he can be very successful when used correctly. Hell, even when not used correctly, he was durable and useful. In the 4 games the Bengals won, much of the reason was because Benson carried the ball over and over again, running down the clock and keeping the defense rested on the sideline (In 12 losses, Benson averaged 18 carries/game. In 4 wins, he averaged 26 carries/game). It might not be sexy... but it sure as hell works.

And as for being unwilling to blame any of Benson's faults... it's simply untrue. But I will argue tooth and nail against your bulls**t claim that if you get rid of Benson, everything gets better. Benson isn't a long term option, but at the present time, he's the best the Bengals can do with what Gruden plans to implement.

[Trevor]

Benson's really good, it seemed every time he'd get a big chunk, (10-20) yds and start getting in a groove, then brat would call an incomplete pass play to T.O... I think ced is the best option for us,.. He's workin hard this offseason, he wants to stay, and he cares about the fans! He's not my favorite player anymore, but if he cuts down on the fumbles, he definitely has a chance to win it again!

[HairOnFire]

Random thoughts from a guy who has no dog in the fight.

I think way too much is being made of Benson's sub 4 YPC average. He's certainly proven to be capable of more than that when the Bengals have made running the ball a priority. And when they don't it shouldn't be suprising when a Bengal RB averages below 4 YPC....as that's what happens here regardless of who is running the ball.

Regardless of whether you're talking about Corey Dillon, Rudi Johnson, or Cedric Benson, the Bengals have traditionally featured well respected RB's who routinely produce poor ypc averages. And throughout that period the one constant has been a Bengal offensive line that annually allows a staggering number of rushing attempts producing negative yards.

IMHO the reasons for the above have less to do with the talent at RB and everything to do with too many mediocre interior blockers attempting to do too much in a zone blocking scheme. But I find no fault in the scheme itself. Rather, I've argued until my fingertips have bled that a scheme or system will only get you so far. At some point you simply need better players.

As for Benson specifically, beyond last seasons uncharacteristic habit of fumbling the only real fault in his game that I see is a lack of true big play ability. Popping a good 20 or 30 yard run here and there seems to be as good as it gets. But it's enough. Best, Benson has proven himself to be a workhorse and a vocal team leader willing to step into the empty void left by posers like Carson Palmer and Chad OchoBozo. So not only would I love to see Benson back....I'd build around him.

With all of that said it's just as true to say that losing Benson to FA wouldn't be a fatal blow. In fact, losing Benson could be all that's needed to push the Bengals from their traditional running attack built around a bell cow type to the running back by commitee approach now favored by most NFL teams.....and the Pimp.

But IMHO if you do away with the thunder in favor of twice the lightning I beleive you're going to need a so-called 4-minute back. More specifically, a power RB who might not be capable of producing 20-25 carries a game, but a guy who can protect a late game lead by picking up 1st downs against defenses who know you're trying to kill the clock.

We don't have that.

[derekshank]

IMHO the reasons for the above have less to do with the talent at RB and everything to do with too many mediocre interior blockers attempting to do too much in a zone blocking scheme.

FYI... Pimp thinks you're stupid.

But I find no fault in the scheme itself. Rather, I've argued until my fingertips have bled that a scheme or system will only get you so far. At some point you simply need better players.

I more or less agree... but somehow you have to account for the fact that the Bengals were a very successful running team in '09, but a piss poor running team in '10 with the same personnel. Call it scheme, call it philosophy... call it what you want. But Marvin admitted that they got away from the run in favor of a pass happy no huddle that resulted in major problems in the power running game.

So while I'm always up for improved talent... the drastic change from '09 to '10 wasn't between the hashmarks as much as between the ears. The coaching staff overthought it. I had been a Brat apologist until this season... but what I watched this year was unforgivable.

But IMHO if you do away with the thunder in favor of twice the lightening I beleive you're going to need a so-called 4-minute back. More specifically, a power RB who might not be capable of producing 20-25 carries a game, but a guy who can protect a late game lead by picking up 1st downs against defenses who know you're trying to kill the clock.

We don't have that.

Agreed. And while I'm in favor of getting Bernard Scott more touches... we don't need two of him. That simply creates a need for a one-trick pony who will get no more than 5-10 carries/game... and that's a wasted roster spot when you could just as easily bring back the guy who is a starter AND an effective goalline/4th quarter RB... not to mention a guy who has publicly voiced his desire to stay in Cincinnati.

[HairOnFire]

FYI... Pimp thinks you're stupid.

It happens.

But I don't lose sleep wondering if other posters love me for my mind or my body.

I more or less agree... but somehow you have to account for the fact that the Bengals were a very successful running team in '09, but a piss poor running team in '10 with the same personnel. Call it scheme, call it philosophy... call it what you want. But Marvin admitted that they got away from the run in favor of a pass happy no huddle that resulted in major problems in the power running game.

More accurately, after months of denial Lewis finally admitted the obvious. But I digress.

The real question faced now is how to go forward IF the team has a rookie starting QB. If I'm calling the shots the first thing I'd hope to do is retain the veteran services of a veteran bell cow back like Benson. Failing that I commit fully to a new back or even more likely....a new rushing attack built around multiple backs. And that's the key because even if I prefer a more traditional style rushing attack there simply aren't very many backs available who can deliver 25 carries per game. Love him or hate him, backs like Benson are rare stuff. So more teams go to a so-called twin lightening set and attempt to compensate for the lack of power by signing a 4-minute guy. Someone with the needed power and skill, but lacking in home run pop or durability. And call me crazy but something tells me that Pimp thinks Ward can still be THAT guy.

And while I'm in favor of getting Bernard Scott more touches... we don't need two of him. That simply creates a need for a one-trick pony who will get no more than 5-10 carries/game... and that's a wasted roster spot when you could just as easily bring back the guy who is a starter AND an effective goalline/4th quarter RB... not to mention a guy who has publicly voiced his desire to stay in Cincinnati.

I agree with MOST of that.

The Bengals certainly don't need two versions of Bernard Scott right now....precisely because they have a superior alternative. Or rather, it seems superior to those of us who actually like Benson. But not ebveryone does, and if you remove Benson from the mix the Bengals are suddenly no different than all of the other teams now trying to make a go of it without a bell cow. Typically that results in the rushing attack featuring interchangeable 3-down types supplemented by a 4-minute power back.

[ArmyBengal]

Best, Benson has proven himself to be a workhorse and a vocal team leader willing to step into the empty void left by posers like Carson Palmer and Chad OchoBozo. So not only would I love to see Benson back....I'd build around him.

I quoted the above and share the comments of Benson about Palmer and Chad.

You have to love the fact that someone, anyone on this team is willing to open their mouths and say something.

Good for Cedric !!!

When asked about Palmer:

“It wouldn’t be healthy for the team to bring him back."

“To bring him back would be detrimental to the team, if he’s there [and] not happy he’s not gonna give us his best.”

When asked about Chad:

“For this team to be a winner, management needs to make changes.”

[Sea Ray]

When asked about Palmer:

“It wouldn’t be healthy for the team to bring him back."

“To bring him back would be detrimental to the team, if he’s there [and] not happy he’s not gonna give us his best.”

When asked about Chad:

“For this team to be a winner, management needs to make changes.”

I noted those comments on Palmer too. Excellent. Thanks for posting them!

[BengalPimp]

FYI... Pimp thinks you're stupid.

It happens.

But I don't lose sleep wondering if other posters love me for my mind or my body.

FYI, NO I DON'T .....Never said that, and have agreed with Hair on many things. Why the hell babyshanks feels the need to tell people what he thinks I think (true or not) is beyond me.

[COB]

Why the hell babyshanks feels the need to tell people what he thinks I think (true or not) is beyond me.

I'll think about it, then I'll tell people why I think Shanks tells people what he thinks you think.

[BengalPimp]

I more or less agree... but somehow you have to account for the fact that the Bengals were a very successful running team in '09, but a piss poor running team in '10 with the same personnel. Call it scheme, call it philosophy... call it what you want. But Marvin admitted that they got away from the run in favor of a pass happy no huddle that resulted in major problems in the power running game.

More accurately, after months of denial Lewis finally admitted the obvious. But I digress.

The real question faced now is how to go forward IF the team has a rookie starting QB. If I'm calling the shots the first thing I'd hope to do is retain the veteran services of a veteran bell cow back like Benson. Failing that I commit fully to a new back or even more likely....a new rushing attack built around multiple backs. And that's the key because even if I prefer a more traditional style rushing attack there simply aren't very many backs available who can deliver 25 carries per game. Love him or hate him, backs like Benson are rare stuff. So more teams go to a so-called twin lightening set and attempt to compensate for the lack of power by signing a 4-minute guy. Someone with the needed power and skill, but lacking in home run pop or durability. And call me crazy but something tells me that Pimp thinks Ward can still be THAT guy.

Look, regardless of who ends up lining up at Tailback, one thing is for sure......The Bengals need to find a LEGIT Fullback.

[derekshank]

FYI... Pimp thinks you're stupid.

It happens.

But I don't lose sleep wondering if other posters love me for my mind or my body.

FYI, NO I DON'T .....Never said that, and have agreed with Hair on many things. Why the hell babyshanks feels the need to tell people what he thinks I think (true or not) is beyond me.

Take it easy. We're all just having fun here, right?

I said the same thing Hair said, and you said it was idiotic. So... yeah, I happen to know what you think on this particular issue.

[Trevor]

I more or less agree... but somehow you have to account for the fact that the Bengals were a very successful running team in '09, but a piss poor running team in '10 with the same personnel. Call it scheme, call it philosophy... call it what you want. But Marvin admitted that they got away from the run in favor of a pass happy no huddle that resulted in major problems in the power running game.

More accurately, after months of denial Lewis finally admitted the obvious. But I digress.

The real question faced now is how to go forward IF the team has a rookie starting QB. If I'm calling the shots the first thing I'd hope to do is retain the veteran services of a veteran bell cow back like Benson. Failing that I commit fully to a new back or even more likely....a new rushing attack built around multiple backs. And that's the key because even if I prefer a more traditional style rushing attack there simply aren't very many backs available who can deliver 25 carries per game. Love him or hate him, backs like Benson are rare stuff. So more teams go to a so-called twin lightening set and attempt to compensate for the lack of power by signing a 4-minute guy. Someone with the needed power and skill, but lacking in home run pop or durability. And call me crazy but something tells me that Pimp thinks Ward can still be THAT guy.

Look, regardless of who ends up lining up at Tailback, one thing is for sure......The Bengals need to find a LEGIT Fullback.

Well we have four headeing into the preseason,.. So i think whoever wins will be a pretty legit guy lol

[ArmyBengal]

I think between Pressley and VAKAPUNA! they will make their choice.

Yeah, I remember the rule Hair !!!

[derekshank]

I like Fui. He seems like an ideal FB for the traditional WCO. It'll just depend upon how Gruden wants to use the FB.

[BengalPimp]

I actually want to see Fui play. I think he has great potential, but man if they're looking for a pure blocker, Vonta Leech would be AWESOME. That dude is a 1 man wrecking crew, and apparently his agent tried (during the brief period the lockout was lifted) to contact every team in the League.

http://profootballta...ery-team-today/

[derekshank]

With the problem OSU is having right now, I fully expect Dan Herron to enter the supplemental draft.

He plays bigger than he is, runs hard, and can catch out of the backfield. He would provide good insurance in the event that Benson goes elsewhere, and best... he could probably be had for a 5th round pick.

Thoughts?

[ct_bengal]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=6699864

the bengals are #1 negatively affected? they apparently need to spend around 60 million to meet the floor, do you think the front office picks up dre's extension? looks like we are going to have at least 1 premier signing or alot of decent signings...

[HoosierCat]

/>http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=6699864

the bengals are #1 negatively affected? they apparently need to spend around 60 million to meet the floor, do you think the front office picks up dre's extension? looks like we are going to have at least 1 premier signing or alot of decent signings...

Meh. I think the Cryptkeeper is overstating the case. Assuming a $120 million cap, even if the floor stayed at 86% of the cap, the Bengals would have had to spend $40 million+ to get there.

Not sure I buy the argument that the Redskins are big winners, either. Snyder has to spend? When has he not? But with the floor and cap going to get a lot closer, there's far less room to play salary cap games.

[ArmyBengal]

I think if there's one spot to spend money to make things happen THIS season, JJoe has to be the priority.

[derekshank]

If Clayton's numbers are anywhere near true... Joseph will definitely be signed, Hall will get an extension, and unfortunately, Chad will be back.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

If Clayton's numbers are anywhere near true... Joseph will definitely be signed, Hall will get an extension,

Damn well better.

and unfortunately, Chad will be back.

I think I threw up in my mouth. Surely not...after the media pounding OchoDoucho has gotten from both Lewis and Brown, right? Just trade him to Snyder for whatever you can get and be done with it. It's too late for me to go heckle him in camp, but I'll take it anyway.

[ArmyBengal]

Many now think Chad will be back.

Oddly, with each person that says he will be back, the more i'm ok with getting nothing in return for his departure.

Cut him. Give him his wish. Just get him the f*ck out of our locker room.

I don't want anything outside of seeing him gone.

That's where I am with Chad.

I'm still firmly in the camp of:

F*CK YOU CHAD !!!

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I don't want anything outside of seeing him gone. That's where I am with Chad.

Right there with you partner. Hell, at this point he's too slow to even be worth half the trouble he's caused.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Many now think Chad will be back.

Oddly, with each person that says he will be back, the more i'm ok with getting nothing in return for his departure.

Cut him. Give him his wish. Just get him the f*ck out of our locker room.

I don't want anything outside of seeing him gone.

That's where I am with Chad.

I'm still firmly in the camp of:

F*CK YOU CHAD !!!

I don't want anything outside of seeing him gone. That's where I am with Chad.

Right there with you partner. Hell, at this point he's too slow to even be worth half the trouble he's caused.

This is the Bengals we're talking about here guys. The team is for all intents and purposes is run by the owner Mike Brown. Knowing this heading into the upcoming season I'll bet anyone that Chad will be lined up at wide receiver when the team takes it first offensive snap in 2011.

Any takers?