QB question/Dalton

[HairOnFire]

And, a bonus. IF they tryout Dalton and he fails, all year, and appears to not be the answer, well, then they would know. Ahead of the Andrew Luck draft. And might even be in position to get Andrew Luck at that point.

The above appeals to the part of me that wasn't looking for more than a new backup QB from this draft. Because yeah, the Bengals could get an extended look at Dalton prior to next years draft when there may be better QB's available. But by the same token there's a big part of me that doesn't want to see any player rushed into action simply because the team hasn't properly built depth at a critical position.

Nutshelled, I think Dalton should play only when he's earned the opportunity, and the first task I'd ask him to perform would be outperforming a still undetermined journeyman QB.

[membengal]

Because we have a lockout, EVERY qb you might want will be starting "way behind". Not just Dalton. All. All behind.

FWIW the word is that Jordan Palmer has had Gruden's playbook since February. Presumably he was running it during the recent workouts he organized.

If the "veteran filler" is runpee or Lefeavor, I can live with that. It's already on the roster at that point, and won't stand in Dalton's way.

[HairOnFire]

If the "veteran filler" is runpee or Lefeavor, I can live with that.

I'm not sure I could.

The idea of Jordan Palmer being given the starting job that his brother refuses to play is almost to much to think about.

RunPee has got to go.

[BengalszoneBilly]

There is NO way that I want Carson Palmer back in a Bengals uniform.

I'd rather see Jordan Palmer as starting QB than Carson the pu**y whipped quitter.

Concur.

What if Palmer were a p***y whipped "winner"? Would we embrace him or still hate him?

No, he's still a quitter which I have much disdain for. It's the Marine Corps part of me.

[jjakq27]

There is NO way that I want Carson Palmer back in a Bengals uniform.

I'd rather see Jordan Palmer as starting QB than Carson the pu**y whipped quitter.

Concur.

What if Palmer were a p***y whipped "winner"? Would we embrace him or still hate him?

No, he's still a quitter which I have much disdain for. It's the Marine Corps part of me.

"We're Marines. We adapt, we overcome, we improvise." Gunnery Sergeant Tom Highway (Clint Eastwood), Heartbreak Ridge

[TJJackson]

HOOO RAAH

[Kazkal]

i think carson will show up now that he knows hes being replaced, he's got too much money to make. unfortunately for us im not sure if we will see dalton this season. chads gone tho.

There is no way in hell that Carson will ever again take a snap behind center for Cincinnati.

Got to go with the Meister on this one. I don't see Palmer showing up at all. Don't think we'll hear from him period till he's traded or released.

I could see him showing u p week 1 just because it hurts the team and helps his camp.

[derekshank]

I could see him showing u p week 1 just because it hurts the team and helps his camp.

You underestimate the stubbornness of Mike Brown.

If Palmer shows up, Mike Brown was right... because he has said all along that hopes Palmer will change his mind. Palmer showing up is a win for MB.

Palmer has no leverage no matter what he does. MB would love for Palmer to stay a Bengal... especially during Dalton's rookie year. So showing up merely shows he doesn't want to be traded as much as he let on - because he doesn't have the balls to retire.

[walzav29]

I could see him showing u p week 1 just because it hurts the team and helps his camp.

You underestimate the stubbornness of Mike Brown.

If Palmer shows up, Mike Brown was right... because he has said all along that hopes Palmer will change his mind. Palmer showing up is a win for MB.

Palmer has no leverage no matter what he does. MB would love for Palmer to stay a Bengal... especially during Dalton's rookie year. So showing up merely shows he doesn't want to be traded as much as he let on - because he doesn't have the balls to retire.

It is interesting how many members of the media forget this fact. Brown said he's not trading him. That's it. I think we'd all agree that for the 2011 Bengals, in terms of the record for just 2011. The best option is Carson Palmer. Brown feels the same way. Dalton will be the QB to get us our 1st playoff win since 1990 though.

[derekshank]

I think Dalton should play only when he's earned the opportunity, and the first task I'd ask him to perform would be outperforming a still undetermined journeyman QB.

I'm ok with this assuming the journeyman is brought in to provide Dalton with a few extra weeks to adapt... not an extra year.

Players like Marc Bulger and Matt Hasselbeck can probably be scratched off the list, because they are likely to find a team that wants them to start for the entire season.

I'm more interested in a player like Kerry Collins or Seneca Wallace. Someone who can provide some veteran experience and give Dalton a month or so to adapt to the NFL. Because, frankly... if Dalton is going to be the QB in 2012, I want him to get his feet nice and wet in 2011.

Think about Josh Freeman. He sat for the first 7 games his rookie year (and they lost all 7 of those games). They weren't worried about "ruining" him... so they let him start the last 9 games. The quality of his performance was a mixed bag... but he got experience. Last year he threw 25 TDs, 6 INTs, and had a 95.9 passer rating. I doubt he plays that well if he sat his entire rookie season.

[walzav29]

Why not a Jet's/Steelers approach? Run and play defense.

[derekshank]

Why not a Jet's/Steelers approach? Run and play defense.

You mean like '09? Yeah... I think I've been lobbying for that since week 1 of the 2010 season.

[membengal]

Why not a Jet's/Steelers approach? Run and play defense.

You mean like '09? Yeah... I think I've been lobbying for that since week 1 of the 2010 season.

Seems to me that can be done with Dalton under center. Like Roeth's rookie year.

[cincyhokie]

Why not a Jet's/Steelers approach? Run and play defense.

You mean like '09? Yeah... I think I've been lobbying for that since week 1 of the 2010 season.

Seems to me that can be done with Dalton under center. Like Roeth's rookie year.

I think he's the best QB coming out to make that happen. Maybe Ponder simply because he's got Peterson.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Seems to me that can be done with Dalton under center. Like Roeth's rookie year.

Not unless that O-line improves. Maybe somebody can get Andre Smith a life coach, because the draft this year isn't gonna help there.

[derekshank]

Seems to me that can be done with Dalton under center. Like Roeth's rookie year.

Not unless that O-line improves. Maybe somebody can get Andre Smith a life coach, because the draft this year isn't gonna help there.

It's the same O-Line that won the division in '09.

Brat abandoned that successful scheme in favor of one that featured a downfield passing attack... And this O-Line wasn't well suited for that.

A strong running game and a quick passing WCO should be just fine for this O-Line.

[Walrus]

Seems to me that can be done with Dalton under center. Like Roeth's rookie year.

Not unless that O-line improves. Maybe somebody can get Andre Smith a life coach, because the draft this year isn't gonna help there.

It's the same O-Line that won the division in '09.

Brat abandoned that successful scheme in favor of one that featured a downfield passing attack... And this O-Line wasn't well suited for that.

A strong running game and a quick passing WCO should be just fine for this O-Line.

I don't know what Gruden Jr's system will look like, but usually WCO's rely on having a good fullback. We have Chris Pressley, who has looked ok in camp but has he had any game action? In '09 we mostly utilized an "elephant line" in lieu of a blocking back. Anyone care to weigh in on whether the Bengals are properly equipped to have such a power running game?

[ArmyBengal]

I made the point over and over again last season.

In '09 we didn't have sh*t for a tight end and they ran the jumbo package with an extra OT sitting in the TE spot. They were telling teams, "We are going to run it right THERE" then waited to see if the defense could stop it. More times than not, they couldn't. Fast forward to '10 and they draft Gresham. They say he can in fact block, but feel that is the part of his game that needs to be addressed more than anything. That being said, Gresham was running routes and doing a pretty good job of it. However, they couldn't or better said, Brat wouldn't commit to the running game and they failed miserably.

There's nothing that would make me believe with a quick throw system and a returned commitment to the running game, this o-line couldn't maintain a dominating running attack. They are simply better suited to do just that as opposed to pass blocking.

I would have little issue seeing the Ginja Ninja running that offense...

[cincyhokie]

I would have little issue seeing the Ginja Ninja running that offense...

...and a new nickname was born.

[HairOnFire]

Why not a Jet's/Steelers approach? Run and play defense.

You mean like '09? Yeah... I think I've been lobbying for that since week 1 of the 2010 season.

Seems to me that can be done with Dalton under center. Like Roeth's rookie year.

Of course you can do it. In my mind the real question is why would you want to.

Some of you may recall the great Pong Wars of 2010 where two warring camps fought over the Bengals strategy of using a grinding ball control offensive attack that SOME claimed wasted the talents of the Bengals best players, said to be the players who formed the Bengals passing attack. I countered by saying the Bengals ball control strategy was perfect since it kept the Bengals in nearly every game they played and routinely put the Bengals best players in a position where they could win games in the 4th quarter, often in the final minutes. And that's exactly what happened in 2010.

But none of it happened in 2011, precisely because the team abandoned the very same ball control strategy that had kept them in most games the previous year. Instead, the Bengals attacked with an offensive strategy built around the passing game. Or if you prefer, the offensive attack was built around the teams so-called best players. The Ocho. The Owens. The Palmer. The Bengals even managed to indulge every conceivable TE and slot WR fantasy any Bastard Son of Paul Brown might imagine....and the team suffered greatly as a result.

More accurately, the team cratered.

In fact, the crash was so spectacular and complete that numerous pieces broke away...flyying so far in every direction that some still haven't landed. And that brings us to the now familiar RubOnFire. That being, many of us now find ourselves willing to embrace a return to the grinding ways of 2010, in part because it isn't unthinkable that a rookie QB may be able to produce comparable passing CrapStats as those put up by Palmer. But in regards to winning it's unlikley any rookie QB could match the late game performance produced by Palmer and Company in 2010. Rather, from this group we're likely to see spectacular flashes surrounded by growing pains, rookie mistakes, missed opportunities, teachable moments, and close losses. And these things are likely to be true regardlless whether you liked the grind or not, and regardless of whether you felt Carson Palmer was elite or pedestrian, his experience made the grind work.

In the end I too strongly embrace a return to the grinding ways, especially when you consider the schedule this team will face this year. And a ball control based gameplan would only help a rookie QB adjust. But I'm not willing to kid myself about this teams chances using a rookie QB. Nor would I be willing to risk the future of that rookie simply because it's just as easy to lose with a rookie as with a mediocre veteran.

Bottom line: It doesn't matter to me if Dalton was the 36th pick in the draft as opposed to the 1st overall selction, as Palmer was. This team needs to show Andy Dalton the same care and patience as it once demonstrated when developing Palmer.

[TJJackson]

Some of you may recall the great Pong Wars of 2010

2009?

But none of it happened in 2011

2010?

a return to the grinding ways of 2010

2009?

the late game performance produced by Palmer and Company in 2010

2009?

This team needs to show Andy Dalton the same care and patience as it once demonstrated when developing Palmer.

or at least be willing to do so - if Dalton beats the pants off Joe Journeyman, then give him his shot - if not starts, then at least finishing out blowouts (losses or wins, same either way) where the pressure to win will not be there.

[ArmyBengal]

I would have little issue seeing the Ginja Ninja running that offense...

...and a new nickname was born.

And the story begins with my neighbor's 8 year old son with a vivid imagination.

He was running around the yard in his ninja outfit, throwing things, and swinging a play sword. I asked how he was doing today and he replied, "Hey Mark, I'm a ninja". I told him that he was a good ninja and how cool it was. He then followed it up with, "I'm the souless ninja". Fast forward to Pimp's comments about Ginger's being souless and I immediately put two and two together. I couldn't help but laugh while writing that either. Nothing like the stuff that comes flying out of the mouths of kids huh ??

I like it though:

Andy "The Ginja Ninja" Dalton

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

It's the same O-Line that won the division in '09.

Brat abandoned that successful scheme in favor of one that featured a downfield passing attack... And this O-Line wasn't well suited for that.

A strong running game and a quick passing WCO should be just fine for this O-Line.

Didn't look at it. Aside from the running abandonment, they didn't appear to be opening holes in 2010 as they did in 2009.

I'll further grant that they suck even worse at pass protection.

[volcom69]

I truly believe that Marvin and Brat were trying to make this o-line something they are not, a great pass blocking o-line! They did such a great job of pushing guys off the line in 2009, and they used the jumbo package to there advantage. This year they hardly used the Jumbo package because they wanted to make things simple.

This year they need to get back to running the ball, using the jumbo package, and getting Andre Smith ready for the season! I truly believe if they put everything back into running the ball they can be successful.

I belive thats why the defense took a step back, in 09 they played ball control by running the ball, which kept the defense well rested. This year there were so many 3 outs, Palmer throwing ints after ints, the defense was always tired. Sure there were alot of injuries, but i think thats why they went backwards!

Now get back to running the ball, stop making stupid penalties, and catch the ball when its in your hands, and maybe the offense could be good again!

[cincyhokie]

I would have little issue seeing the Ginja Ninja running that offense...

...and a new nickname was born.

And the story begins with my neighbor's 8 year old son with a vivid imagination.

He was running around the yard in his ninja outfit, throwing things, and swinging a play sword. I asked how he was doing today and he replied, "Hey Mark, I'm a ninja". I told him that he was a good ninja and how cool it was. He then followed it up with, "I'm the souless ninja". Fast forward to Pimp's comments about Ginger's being souless and I immediately put two and two together. I couldn't help but laugh while writing that either. Nothing like the stuff that comes flying out of the mouths of kids huh ??

I like it though:

Andy "The Ginja Ninja" Dalton

I like this as well.