Carson Palmer Thread

[TJJackson]

Please continue your petty bickering....

You're just happy nobody has seen fit yet to mention how the guy in your avatar got his ass kicked again. And funnier still, he then went to jail for being drunk and resisting arrest.

Yeah. WTF TJ????

Well, there are some other similarities here - he was jumped from behind (again) by a defensive lineman (again) and was basically unable to control his emotions or actions (again)

/>http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/29647/alabama-alum-alleges-attack-by-gator

DBs should not fight DTs, plain and simple :-)

[COB]

Please continue your petty bickering....

You're just happy nobody has seen fit yet to mention how the guy in your avatar got his ass kicked again. And funnier still, he then went to jail for being drunk and resisting arrest.

Yeah. WTF TJ????

Well, there are some other similarities here - he was jumped from behind (again) by a defensive lineman (again) and was basically unable to control his emotions or actions (again)

/>http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/29647/alabama-alum-alleges-attack-by-gator

DBs should not fight DTs, plain and simple :-)

I read that story, and that is one wierd story. Former 'Bama player outside the stadium after big win by 'Bama over Florida. He's hammered, and a current player attacks him from behind. He knocks him down, but before running off he loses his cell phone. Then the current player's parents call and try to get their kid's cell phone back. Shouldn't the current Florida player be in the locker room or on the bus or getting cash payments from a booster or something? Strange.

(Insert bird picture and something about Carson Palmer here)

[TJJackson]

Which brings us neatly to one of the fundamental rules of negotiating.

Never .... debate solutions you're in no position to implement.

Err....we do that here every. single. day.

[HairOnFire]

Wouldn't the fact that he had a major knee surgery, in which many believe he has never had the same mobility, have some affect on their decision? What about the fact he basically missed half of a season or more from a nerve damage problem in his throwing elbow?

Absolutely.

But it seems to me the moment you start debating the wisdom of replacing Palmer based soley upon the level of his performance the entire rant about Palmer being a noble man of his word and downtrodden victim of Bengal ineptitude goes flying out the window. Instantly you find yourself confronted with a scenario where ALL of the Bengals actions are both logical and consistent with the things done by ALL NFL teams.

Furthermore, if you concede the Bengals were prudent for at least exploring the matter of how and when to begin trying to replace Palmer his blatantly emotional "let's get a divorce" response begins to make perfect sense. He becomes the so-called jilted girlfriend that guys like Hoosier like to talk about. He becomes the irrational party acting out of petty anger, and the Bengals become the victim.

And there's the rub because if the Bengals are the victim their open disdain for a salty peanut can no longer be portrayed as an act of spite. Rather, it makes perfect sense.

[HairOnFire]

:lol: You're killin' me, smalls.

Sorry, the above reference failed to trigger any recognition from my wetware. Perhaps a YouTube video or bird picture might help.

[TJJackson]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=You%27re%20killing%20me%2C%20Smalls

[HoosierCat]

Furthermore, if you concede the Bengals were prudent for at least exploring the matter of how and when to begin trying to replace Palmer his blatantly emotional "let's get a divorce" response begins to make perfect sense. He becomes the so-called jilted girlfriend that guys like Hoosier like to talk about. He becomes the irrational party acting out of petty anger, and the Bengals become the victim.

Actually, the opposite is true. If the Bengals were looking to replace Palmer, then his demand for a trade becomes perfectly understandable. It's what any player would do. Why would you want to hang around on a team that's shopping for your replacement, especially at 30 in this league?

Let's recap: the Bengals: tried to sign Vick in August 2009, and according to Vick would have given him an opportunity to start; were by Marvin's admission discussing replacing Palmer at least as far back as January 2010; and, per James Walker, asked Palmer to take a pay cut last year. Given all that, it's no wonder that Palmer asked for a trade.

[HairOnFire]

Y'know, back someplace around page 70 of this thread you agreed with (IIRC) membengal that I had lost my mind arguing that the Bengals were actively trying to replace Palmer (with Michael Vick) in August of 2009, and derek was swearing up and down that no such move was or could ever have been contemplated because Carson Palmer was the Golden Child who got everything he wanted.

Now you tell me that they wanted to replace Palmer at least a year before he asked for a trade.

No, I'm reminding you how Marvin Lewis admitted the Bengals had discussed replacing Palmer as early as a year before Palmer lost his nut and then his mind. If that suggests to you they had targeted Vick for the starters job you could be right, but IMHO your rant would have more weight if you could show how the Bengals had made Vick an offer so large he couldn't refuse it OR document a pattern of open criticism of Palmer's play by his coaches. I doubt you can do that. Furthermore, Derek isn't wrong about the Bengals giving Palmer everything he asked for right up to the moment when Palmer's balls retracted into his mouth, thereby preventing him from speaking.

Regardless, let's say you were right about the Bengals targeting Vick as a possible replacement for Palmer, and not as a backup or potential trade asset....as I believed. And if we ignore for a moment how most backup QB's are viewed as possible replacements for starting QB....doesn't your Vick scenario paint Palmer as a diva who responded emotionally to the first sign of true competition for his job? And wouldn't that make a mockery of your companion rant about Palmer being Bungalized and a victim of an evil and spiteful overlord? Aren't you portraying Palmer as someone who wilted and withdrew from the very first moment his franchise player status was questioned?

In fact, if you were right about the Bengals interest in Vick, well....wouldn't that be ample proof that Palmer is indeed a puzzy and a chump, and NOT the noble victim you claim he is?

[HairOnFire]

/>http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=You%27re%20killing%20me%2C%20Smalls

Really?

A reference from the movie "The Sandlot"

And you say I'm guilty of being too obscure?

At the risk of embarrassing myself even further...(ahem)....I've never been more proud of not getting a cultural reference than I am right now.

[HoosierCat]

In fact, if you were right about the Bengals interest in Vick, well....wouldn't that be ample proof that Palmer is indeed a puzzy and a chump, and NOT the noble victim you claim he is?

I've never claimed Palmer was any kind of noble victim. Prometheus was your rant, remember? What I have been saying is that I believe that there were real, actual job-related reasons that led up to Palmer's trade demand. That far from being an asshat douchebag chump etc. who completely inexplicably walked away from an organization that worshipped the ground on which he walked, he was an asshat douchebag chump etc. who decided to bail on an organization that was at least planning, if not actively trying to sign, his replacement.

That doesn't make Palmer noble, but it does make his actions much more understandable.

[HairOnFire]

If the Bengals were looking to replace Palmer, then his demand for a trade becomes perfectly understandable. It's what any player would do.

It's what any player who was afraid of competition would do.

You're describing a scenario where Palmer had a hissy fit the moment the Bengals stopped feathering his nest. In fact, I'd say you're doing a better job of portraying Palmer as a puzzy and a chump than I have.

Well done, sir.

[HoosierCat]

If that suggests to you they had targeted Vick for the starters job you could be right, but IMHO your rant would have more weight if you could show how the Bengals had made Vick an offer so large he couldn't refuse it

Well, if you believe Vick the Cincy offer was more attractive than the Philly one, but of course that was before GOD-el got involved.

doesn't your Vick scenario paint Palmer as a diva who responded emotionally to the first sign of true competition for his job?

Don't you think any QB would react badly in the same situation?

You're describing a scenario where Palmer had a hissy fit the moment the Bengals stopped feathering his nest.

If he truly had a "hissy fit" then, he would have demanded a trade in 2009 or at latest January of '10. Again, I don't think we are looking at one isolated incident here, but a period of at least 12 or 18 months where it became increasingly obvious to Palmer that the organization had lost faith in him and was looking at options. That much seems beyond dispute; whether they did specific things such as offer Vick the starting gig or ask Palmer to take a haircut remain unconfirmed reports. But it looks to me not like Palmer had a hissy, but just got fed up by these events over a longer period of time.

[HairOnFire]

I've never claimed Palmer was any kind of noble victim. Prometheus was your rant, remember?

Of course I remember.

With no small amount of pride I hereby claim my Prometheus rant was a truly brilliant kush-fueled masterpiece based upon the idea that we Bengal fans might finally learn from a departing disgruntled player the types of obstacles Bengal players insist they can't overcome.

Granted, I first thought that player would be Chad, but he not only said nothing as he departed...as a Patriot player he's proven his own mental weakness was the biggest obstacle he faced as a Bengal. And that's been true of Palmer as well.

In hindsight the long forgotten and laughable figure of Caleb Miller turned out to be my Prometheus. But even a Caleb Miller cast in the role of Prometheus could not bring fire down from the heavens above. At best, the obstacles he spoke of were small, petty, and could very easily be overcome if Miller were a bit more professional and far less pussified.

Nutshelled, Prometheus complained about the free food he was served.

[TJJackson]

A reference from the movie "The Sandlot"

And you say I'm guilty of being too obscure?

Paul Brown's high school player nickname versus a absolute classic sports-themed major motion picture

Hmm......

which is more obscure......which is more obscure.......

I choose......to eat a late lunch

[HairOnFire]

That doesn't make Palmer noble, but it does make his actions much more understandable.

But if you truly understood Palmer's actions you wouldn't find yourself begging for a peanut, would you?

[Spor_tees]

Y'know, back someplace around page 70 of this thread you agreed with (IIRC) membengal that I had lost my mind arguing that the Bengals were actively trying to replace Palmer (with Michael Vick) in August of 2009, and derek was swearing up and down that no such move was or could ever have been contemplated because Carson Palmer was the Golden Child who got everything he wanted.

Now you tell me that they wanted to replace Palmer at least a year before he asked for a trade.

No, I'm reminding you how Marvin Lewis admitted the Bengals had discussed replacing Palmer as early as a year before Palmer lost his nut and then his mind. If that suggests to you they had targeted Vick for the starters job you could be right, but IMHO your rant would have more weight if you could show how the Bengals had made Vick an offer so large he couldn't refuse it OR document a pattern of open criticism of Palmer's play by his coaches. I doubt you can do that. Furthermore, Derek isn't wrong about the Bengals giving Palmer everything he asked for right up to the moment when Palmer's balls retracted into his mouth, thereby preventing him from speaking.

Regardless, let's say you were right about the Bengals targeting Vick as a possible replacement for Palmer, and not as a backup or potential trade asset....as I believed. And if we ignore for a moment how most backup QB's are viewed as possible replacements for starting QB....doesn't your Vick scenario paint Palmer as a diva who responded emotionally to the first sign of true competition for his job? And wouldn't that make a mockery of your companion rant about Palmer being Bungalized and a victim of an evil and spiteful overlord? Aren't you portraying Palmer as someone who wilted and withdrew from the very first moment his franchise player status was questioned?

In fact, if you were right about the Bengals interest in Vick, well....wouldn't that be ample proof that Palmer is indeed a puzzy and a chump, and NOT the noble victim you claim he is?

I gave you a fine explanation why the Bengals were already thinking about a Palmer replacement a year before he lost his marbles. Palmer had become an injury nightmare with a knee surgery that made him a statue in the pocket, and a bum elbow that could totally blowout at anytime. What good is a quarterback that can't move in the pocket nor throw the ball more than 20 yards?

[COB]

I gave you a fine explanation why the Bengals were already thinking about a Palmer replacement a year before he lost his marbles. Palmer had become an injury nightmare with a knee surgery that made him a statue in the pocket, and a bum elbow that could totally blowout at anytime. What good is a quarterback that can't move in the pocket nor throw the ball more than 20 yards?

All true. In addition, if you have a "team leader" that quits when he is threatened even with competition for his spot, you; A) don't have a team leader, and are better off without that sackless weasel on your team.

Proof? We were like in week 12 last year by the time Palmer matched the 2 wins the Dalton-lead team has won in 4 games.

As time passes, Palmer looks worse and worse. Mike Brown should trade him ASAP, I fear by the time this season is over we'll get a 4th rounder for him at best.

[HairOnFire]

I gave you a fine explanation why the Bengals were already thinking about a Palmer replacement a year before he lost his marbles.

And I accepted your explanation without complaint, mostly because I've never had a problem with claims the Bengals explored other options or asked Palmer to take a pay cut. In fact, aren't those examples exactly the types of things we see happening everywhere around the NFL?

The only truly unique thing I see in this situation is Palmer's chump-like overreaction to perfectly normal events.

[HairOnFire]

BTW, I just noted how this thread had finally reached 47 pages in length.

Well done, boys.

Only 53 more pages to go before we reach our goal.

[TJJackson]

set your posts per page number back to the default, Hair

we're on page 93, dude

[HairOnFire]

I fear I am incapable of changing.

Mostly because my apathy will not allow it.

[insert picture of banty rooster]

[COB]

Mostly because my apathy will not allow it.

This is the truth: Several years there was a piece in USA Today about young people being apathetic about politics and current events in general. The article quoted various windbags blabbing on and on about it. Then the author asked an apathetic young person why he didn't care about politics or events. His exact quote, which my wife and I have laughed about ever since, was:

"I don't care enough to care about why I don't care."

[TJJackson]

I fear I am incapable of changing.

very well then, you brought this upon yourself

/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjCoBTzrN9E&noredirect=1

[Spor_tees]

Mostly because my apathy will not allow it.

This is the truth: Several years there was a piece in USA Today about young people being apathetic about politics and current events in general. The article quoted various windbags blabbing on and on about it. Then the author asked an apathetic young person why he didn't care about politics or events. His exact quote, which my wife and I have laughed about ever since, was:

"I don't care enough to care about why I don't care."

Paradoxes like that can be a plot line for life. Just like "A bad Bengals team will never be good because the Bengals are always bad."

[Spor_tees]

Per PFT:

5. The Bengals have a good chance to head into their bye week at 4-2. They host the Colts next week before getting a week off. Carson Palmer could have made the playoffs with this team.

You can read more here The Bengals are a winning team