Carson Palmer Thread

[HairOnFire]

Anybody catch Marvin's presser and his "Are you kidding me?" reaction to a reporters question about Palmer?

Hasn't spoken to Palmer since February. Has never discussed a potential trade or holdout with Palmer. Says he considers Palmer retired, and not a holdout, because Palmer has no options and can't dictate where he wants to play.

[Spor_tees]

Anybody catch Marvin's presser and his "Are you kidding me?" reaction to a reporters question about Palmer?

Hasn't spoken to Palmer since February. Has never discussed a potential trade or holdout with Palmer. Says he considers Palmer retired, and not a holdout, because Palmer has no options and can't dictate where he wants to play.

I really am leaning more and more toward Palmer and TJ having been the cancers on this team. Why would Marvin, as reserved and laid back as he is, go to a big pool party with TO and Ocho, but yet he didn't even try to reach out to Palmer to talk him into playing? Sounds crazy to me.

[jjakq27]

Bump...

I am disappointed that this topic almost fell off of page 1. We're still 10 pages off of 100.

Carson is in Cali, and the Bengals don't really seem to miss him. Other than that, what's to say?

Just stirring it up a little Bill, that's all.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Bump...

I am disappointed that this topic almost fell off of page 1. We're still 10 pages off of 100.

Carson is in Cali, and the Bengals don't really seem to miss him. Other than that, what's to say?

Just stirring it up a little Bill, that's all.

You're trying to get this thread to 100 pages. Well let me help.

[gregstephens]

In our continuing quest to hit 100 pages, allow me...

This morning on the way to work, I was thinking about the Palmer situation. Granted it is no longer a situation as far as the Bengals are concerned, but rather his situation.

There are a lot of things I don't get. Granted, I'll give allowance to those Palmer apologists that support his decision to walk because he no longer wanted to play for losers. I understand the argument. However, I honestly don't know how to relate.

In my chosen field, if I don't like where I am at, I can quit and go look for another job. Perhaps my pay is low, or I don't like my boss. Or perhaps I'm just tired of the type of work I am doing. Regardless, I can go look for change. We've all quit jobs for various reasons. It doesn't mean we are 'quitters' per se.

Then I look at Palmer. He's in a field I cannot know. On the one hand, he had a job every one of us would kill to be able to do and have. NFL QB making millions...sign me up! On the other hand, if he gets to where he doesn't like the job, or the boss, or the pay, he's under contract and cannot just up and quit.

So, do we blame Palmer for leaving an environment that, honestly, were that our own working environments we'd leave?

But on the third hand, if you have a love and passion to play football, do you not just be thankful you can do so as a starting NFL quarterback and be paid obscene amounts of money? Even if it's for the Bengals or Lions of old? Sure every NFL player wants to win a ring, many in fact. But the reality is, most will not. So you can see where I'm torn.

Ah...who am I kidding? The son of a ***** quit on his team and himself. Screw him.

[gregstephens]

Again to continue our quest...

Where exactly does Palmer think he can go? IF SoP decided to trade him, which I've stated before I do not support for the principles and the practical reasons that I don't believe we'd get enough value to outweigh the principles, but supposing SoP pulled that trigger. Where's he going?

1) The dysfunctional entity that is Al Davis' Raiders? Sure, Jackson has them playing decent now, even with an average-at-best QB, but leaving SoP for The Mummy seems lateral at best. Of course, it's in California, so that takes the sting off for a season or two, but Palmer would find a way to be miserable there as well eventually.

2) The pathetically mired Vikings? A team constantly embroiled in it's own ineptitude? Carson, it's colder in Minnesota than here. The offense has no more tools than we do. The head coach is a rookie that has proven nothing of his worth for the job.

3) The Dolphins? Sure, nice weather. Crazy owner(s). Lousy head coach. Lame duck head coach. Playing in a division where the Jets, Pats and seemingly even the Bills are going to make sure your team goes no better than 1-5 in divisional play? But for the weather, stay in Cincy if that's what you want.

4) The Colts? Child please. Play the rest of this season, wait for Manning to return, be unemployed again. Nice.

5) The Chiefs? Why would anyone want to play in Kansas City right now?

Plus factor in that four of these teams are major contenders for the Andrew Luck Award. Pick the wrong one Carson and your days are definitely numbered.

So, in conclusion...even if a trade were likely, which it ain't...which Super Bowl contending team does Palmer envision carrying him?

[derekshank]

So, do we blame Palmer for leaving an environment that, honestly, were that our own working environments we'd leave?

Let's not confuse things.

Palmer knew the culture of the Bengals front office when he signed that fat contract extension. He knew there was no practice bubble. He knew what the Christmas parties were like. He knew about the quality of the free food.

Yes the Bengals were having some success in '05. But they also had success just one year prior to his demand... the only difference being that fans had grown tired of mediocrity from a "Franchise" QB.

Palmer was pissed that he was no longer viewed as the golden boy. Fans were no longer giving him a free pass... and were voicing their displeasure when he didn't play well. Palmer didn't quit the NFL. He quit the Bengals.

That proves one thing. He has no balls. No heart. No courage. None.

[gregstephens]

So, do we blame Palmer for leaving an environment that, honestly, were that our own working environments we'd leave?

Let's not confuse things.

Palmer knew the culture of the Bengals front office when he signed that fat contract extension. He knew there was no practice bubble. He knew what the Christmas parties were like. He knew about the quality of the free food.

Yes the Bengals were having some success in '05. But they also had success just one year prior to his demand... the only difference being that fans had grown tired of mediocrity from a "Franchise" QB.

Palmer was pissed that he was no longer viewed as the golden boy. Fans were no longer giving him a free pass... and were voicing their displeasure when he didn't play well. Palmer didn't quit the NFL. He quit the Bengals.

That proves one thing. He has no balls. No heart. No courage. None.

So as we are not confused, as derek has to be a reporter with his gift of cherry picking quotes 'out of context', that was ultimately my conclusion. In fact, I have stated the whole 'he knew what he was getting into' argument myself.

But again, for the sake of our centennial quest on this thread, I threw out the 'devil's advocate' position for just this reason. Take me out of context. Put me into context...I don't care. COME ON 100!!!

(by the way, we mods are itching to close this sumgun as soon as that hits )

[derekshank]

So as we are not confused, as derek has to be a reporter with his gift of cherry picking quotes 'out of context', that was ultimately my conclusion.

Out of context?

You wrote 6 paragraphs defending Palmer, right? The fact that you wrote one sentence at the end essentially saying "just kidding" doesn't mean I took anything out of context.

You admit were playing devil's advocate, right? So I didn't take anything out of context. I was responding to that argument you made... and I never said it was your actual opinion.

Geesh.

[gregstephens]

So as we are not confused, as derek has to be a reporter with his gift of cherry picking quotes 'out of context', that was ultimately my conclusion.

Out of context?

You wrote 6 paragraphs defending Palmer, right? The fact that you wrote one sentence at the end essentially saying "just kidding" doesn't mean I took anything out of context.

You admit were playing devil's advocate, right? So I didn't take anything out of context. I was responding to that argument you made... and I never said it was your actual opinion.

Geesh.

Throwing the red flag on this one. Review the replay, ref. I didn't actually write ANY paragraphs defending Palmer. I wrote six paragraphs asking a lot of philosophical questions. So, in answer to your first question about me defending Palmer, nope, didn't do it. Therefore, you're characterization of my last statement is, in fact, not a 'just kidding', but merely a reassertion of my prior opinion that I've been consistent with.

The fact that I acknowledged the legitimacy of an opposing viewpoint is not in fact defending Palmer. Truly, my point was that I can understand, from a look at my own career options, the desire for change if the environment is not conducive to optimal performance/happiness. Then I countered that with a recognition that I cannot do that as the terms of employment are not in fact equal.

Of course, we all have to factor in the fact that we look at Palmer's life situation from eyes that he does not. You and I would give our eye teeth to be able to play one NFL game, even if it were the worst team in the league. I'd gladly take 80 million bucks to play for a crap team...BUT, I'd also want to do so with the desire to improve that team.

Palmer threw in the towel long ago. He'd rather get a mulligan. Reboot his career so to speak. He sees the Corey Dillons of the world and believes anybody can bully his way off a loser, on to a winner, get a ring and go out on top. What he should have done was chucked his uniform into the stands after his last game.

Anyway, what we were not arguing about?

[derekshank]

The fact that I acknowledged the legitimacy of an opposing viewpoint is not in fact defending Palmer.

So why would you be offended that I would quote you? You asked a question in your post, I answered the question.

As you point out, you were merely acknowledging the legitimacy of an opposing viewpoint. I, in turn, merely argued against the idea that the viewpoint is legitimate.

As to what we are arguing about... you accused me of cherry-picking a quote. But the entire context of your initial post was in the spirit of rationalizing Palmer's decision to quit.

In other words... if 95% of your post doesn't accurately reflect your actual opinion... then your actual opinion has no bearing on the discussion. Especially if you're going to accuse someone who responds to it as a reporter who cherry-picks comments out of context.

[gregstephens]

The fact that I acknowledged the legitimacy of an opposing viewpoint is not in fact defending Palmer.

So why would you be offended that I would quote you? You asked a question in your post, I answered the question.

As you point out, you were merely acknowledging the legitimacy of an opposing viewpoint. I, in turn, merely argued against the idea that the viewpoint is legitimate.

As to what we are arguing about... you accused me of cherry-picking a quote. But the entire context of your initial post was in the spirit of rationalizing Palmer's decision to quit.

In other words... if 95% of your post doesn't accurately reflect your actual opinion... then your actual opinion has no bearing on the discussion. Especially if you're going to accuse someone who responds to it as a reporter who cherry-picks comments out of context.

Here was my entire issue with you selected quotation...

You only requoted the one philosophical question that sounded like I was defending Palmer. Had someone else read your post, but not my original post, they would likely have assumed by the tone of that question that I was defending Palmer, which I categorically was not. The context that one question appeared to reflect, along with your comments thereto, did not completely reflect my opinion nor my intention. Thus, it was indeed taken out of context.

And I disagree with your mathematical calculation. How can the precise amount of '95%' of my post not accurately reflect my actual opinion, when in fact it doesn't reflect ANY opinion? And if my actual opinion has no bearing on the discussion, ultimately none of our opinions have any actual bearing on the discussion, so why do we strive to 100 pages?

But seriously, my issue was that you took one the one sentence and attacked it like a vulture, giving the appearance of a viewpoint I did not state. All I was sayin'.

[UK Bengal]

I say trade him to Miami s**t coach s**t team going nowhere with no weapons to speak of we get a r2 pick and Miami gets plenty of picks pick 6's that is

[HairOnFire]

Where exactly does Palmer think he can go?

Home.

And no, I'm not being flip.

If Marvin is telling the truth, and I'm betting he is, Palmer never mentioned a trade or a threat to hold out unless traded when the two men last spoke in February. Rather, Lewis is implying Palmer spoke about retirement in the same way that any worn down NFL player might have. So ask yourself what changed between February and the moment when Palmer started popping off like an idiot using real estate agents and golfing buddies as his mouthpiece?

My take? Someone close to Palmer convinced him to not walk away without attempting to force a trade using the argument he had nothing to lose except reputation. And a good reputation can be a wonderful thing but you can't spend it or put it in the bank. So rather than simply walk away from the game he had grown tired of, like Jake Plummer did, Palmer shifted his stance to the psuedo-retirement bulls**t we've all come to love.

And there's the rub because Palmer's agent is almost certainly sophisticated enough to know how Mike Brown and the Bengals would react to any attempt by Palmer to force his way off the roster. In fact, Palmer's agent had to know where this thing was going even before it started.

But Palmer's wife probably didn't know.

Or maybe she didn't care precisely because the families of NFL players view success differently than we fans do. In fact, if judged soley as a bread winner Carson Palmer has been an unqualified success and has nothing left to prove. He can go home with his head held high. It's only when you take Palmer's threats and ridiculous attempts to force his wishes on others seriously that he begins to resemble the p***y and empty-headed chump that other NFL players say he is.

[derekshank]

And I disagree with your mathematical calculation. How can the precise amount of '95%' of my post not accurately reflect my actual opinion, when in fact it doesn't reflect ANY opinion?

I think you answered your own question, and you're just arguing semantics now.

Your opinion wasn't relevant to the discussion. And my response was made directly to the question itself.

As to whether my response accurately reflected your opinion/intention... I simply don't care. If you don't like being associated with the devil, you probably shouldn't play the part of his advocate.

[Spor_tees]

Hair let me point out a couple things.

Jake Plummer actually got a trade that sent him to Tampa before he retired. Seems kind of funny that a player would actually get what they want and still retire. Maybe he just didn't know what he really wanted in the first place. It was kind of like a woman who can decide what restaurant she wants to go to, but in the end you find out she really wasn't hungry in the first place.

As far as Palmer's wife goes, do you remember the movie 'Any Given Sunday?' The starting quarterback played by Dennis Quaid gets hurt badly and can't play for awhile, and even contemplates retirement, BUT his wife continues to try to push him to get healthy FAST and play. Now she may be doing this for varies reasons: the money, the status of being the wife of an NFL QB, or she just might like not having him at home ALL the time. Maybe Palmer's wife has taken one of these stances and wants him back on the field. Who knows?

[gregstephens]

Where exactly does Palmer think he can go?

Home.

And no, I'm not being flip.

If Marvin is telling the truth, and I'm betting he is, Palmer never mentioned a trade or a threat to hold out unless traded when the two men last spoke in February. Rather, Lewis is implying Palmer spoke about retirement in the same way that any worn down NFL player might have. So ask yourself what changed between February and the moment when Palmer started popping off like an idiot using real estate agents and golfing buddies as his mouthpiece?

My take? Someone close to Palmer convinced him to not walk away without attempting to force a trade using the argument he had nothing to lose except reputation. And a good reputation can be a wonderful thing but you can't spend it or put it in the bank. So rather than simply walk away from the game he had grown tired of, like Jake Plummer did, Palmer shifted his stance to the psuedo-retirement bulls**t we've all come to love.

And there's the rub because Palmer's agent is almost certainly sophisticated enough to know how Mike Brown and the Bengals would react to any attempt by Palmer to force his way off the roster. In fact, Palmer's agent had to know where this thing was going even before it started.

But Palmer's wife probably didn't know.

Or maybe she didn't care precisely because the families of NFL players view success differently than we fans do. In fact, if judged soley as a bread winner Carson Palmer has been an unqualified success and has nothing left to prove. He can go home with his head held high. It's only when you take Palmer's threats and ridiculous attempts to force his wishes on others seriously that he begins to resemble the p***y and empty-headed chump that other NFL players say he is.

I believe this is a sounded argued theory of the situation. It does however leave one unanswered question for me. And I know it's been asked and pounced upon prior, but I will reask it in the context of your summation.

If I understand you correctly, the real Carson Palmer, based on conversations ML said he had with Palmer, would in fact like to do the Jake Plummer, leave the game with some coin and his health intact. He has accomplished more than many thought he would with two playoff trips with a team that hasn't been there since Moses was a kid. I got no problem with that. Then in your scenario, some bone headed agent/buddy/whomever, probably like us, thinking 'Man, you're crazy to just quit', talks him into the last chance trade demand stuff.

Seeing that now it is not going to happen and that Palmer would, in his heart, like to retire anyway...why hasn't he filed the papers and be done with it?

And I don't ask it expecting a definitive answer, nor do I ask it to be flippant at your response. I think your scenario is very possible and very well stated.

[gregstephens]

And I disagree with your mathematical calculation. How can the precise amount of '95%' of my post not accurately reflect my actual opinion, when in fact it doesn't reflect ANY opinion?

I think you answered your own question, and you're just arguing semantics now.

Your opinion wasn't relevant to the discussion. And my response was made directly to the question itself.

As to whether my response accurately reflected your opinion/intention... I simply don't care. If you don't like being associated with the devil, you probably shouldn't play the part of his advocate.

Oh you are so much better than this.

You are actually going with this? 'Even though I based my response on your quote and it didn't reflect what you wrote, you took issue, but I don't care?'

You sure you don't work for CNN?

[gregstephens]

And I disagree with your mathematical calculation. How can the precise amount of '95%' of my post not accurately reflect my actual opinion, when in fact it doesn't reflect ANY opinion?

my response... I simply don't care If you don't like the devil.

Hold it...I just figured this out. You like your statements now (I 'Shanked' them because I don't care if I accurately reflect your statements or not).

[gregstephens]

The fact that I acknowledged the legitimacy of an opposing viewpoint is not in fact defending Palmer.

would you be offended that I would quote you?

As you point out, you were merely acknowledging me cherry-picking a quote.

In other words... your post accurately reflect a reporter who cherry-picks comments out of context.

Man, shanking is fun. And before you say it, Derek, you typed every word in that quote.

[derekshank]

And I disagree with your mathematical calculation. How can the precise amount of '95%' of my post not accurately reflect my actual opinion, when in fact it doesn't reflect ANY opinion?

I think you answered your own question, and you're just arguing semantics now.

Your opinion wasn't relevant to the discussion. And my response was made directly to the question itself.

As to whether my response accurately reflected your opinion/intention... I simply don't care. If you don't like being associated with the devil, you probably shouldn't play the part of his advocate.

Oh you are so much better than this.

You are actually going with this? 'Even though I based my response on your quote and it didn't reflect what you wrote, you took issue, but I don't care?'

You sure you don't work for CNN?

Whatever. You admitted yourself you were playing devil's advocate. I was responding to that... not your opinion. It was to that context that my reply was intended.

Your actual opinion of Palmer wasn't relevant to your post, let alone mine. So no... I don't care about your opinion - because that wasn't the intent of the post.

But by all means... continue being as sensitive and easily offended as you like. It is helping the cause.

[HoosierCat]

If Marvin is telling the truth, and I'm betting he is, Palmer never mentioned a trade or a threat to hold out unless traded when the two men last spoke in February.

Given that one of the very few things that all the reports agree on is that Palmer did ask for a trade in his January meeting with Mike Brown, I have a hard time believing Marvin's Sgt. Schultz act.

[Spor_tees]

If Marvin is telling the truth, and I'm betting he is, Palmer never mentioned a trade or a threat to hold out unless traded when the two men last spoke in February.

Given that one of the very few things that all the reports agree on is that Palmer did ask for a trade in his January meeting with Mike Brown, I have a hard time believing Marvin's Sgt. Schultz act.

Eh, maybe Marvin is just saying that both Palmer and Mike Brown took a hard stance and that neither was going to give in. Thus Palmer was going to retire.

[HairOnFire]

If I understand you correctly, the real Carson Palmer, based on conversations ML said he had with Palmer, would in fact like to do the Jake Plummer, leave the game with some coin and his health intact. He has accomplished more than many thought he would with two playoff trips with a team that hasn't been there since Moses was a kid. I got no problem with that. Then in your scenario, some bone headed agent/buddy/whomever, probably like us, thinking 'Man, you're crazy to just quit', talks him into the last chance trade demand stuff.

Seeing that now it is not going to happen and that Palmer would, in his heart, like to retire anyway...why hasn't he filed the papers and be done with it?

Two quick points.

First, I have no idea if someone other than Palmer put a bug in his ear or if he made the decision to play hardball with Mike Brown himself. But others have suggested his wife played a major role in his decision making, and as any fan familiar with the USC program could tell you, Palmer's father has always been directly and heavily involved with his sons career choices, almost to the point of interference.

Last, I'm guessing Palmer hasn't filed his retirement papers yet simply because there's no incentive for him to do so. The trade deadline hasn't passed, right? But even if you ignore that point for a moment I still believe for Palmer this isn't an example of blitzkrieg warfare. Rather, this is siege warfare. Persistent, protracted, and passive aggressive at it's core it's all about the long haul for Palmer.

And there's the rub because while I've never supported the idea of trading Palmer this season, or the next for that matter, I do believe it's far more likely that Palmer will be dealt prior to next season.

[HairOnFire]

If Marvin is telling the truth, and I'm betting he is, Palmer never mentioned a trade or a threat to hold out unless traded when the two men last spoke in February.

Given that one of the very few things that all the reports agree on is that Palmer did ask for a trade in his January meeting with Mike Brown, I have a hard time believing Marvin's Sgt. Schultz act.

That a Carson Palmer apologist and dedicated Mike Brown hater would find Marvin's words hard to believe isn't suprising, shocking, or even noteworthy. What does seem remarkable is how easily you conclude Palmer must have said the very same things to both men despite their vastly different roles.

Furthermore, Marvin's "act" isn't that of someone who claims to know nothing. Rather, he's saying flatly that Palmer spoke of retirement without any of the trade me trappings he may have shared with Brown. And again, that's hardly suprising when you consider who has the ability to make trades involving the teams so-called franchise player.

Last, your silly rant seems based upon the idea that Carson Palmer has been very open and forthcoming with his employer and his coaches, yet the one thing that defines Palmer's actions since the end of last season has been his unbroken silence and repeated willingness to use others to deliver his complaints. And those aren't the actions of a brave soul willing to speak up for himself, are they?