Carson Palmer Thread

[BengalszoneBilly]

Let him retire if his flame has faded.

Oh it's faded. The fading started after the knee injury and it never diminished after that.

He just hit a lucky streak when the 2 Loon Platoon were finally absent the field?

Sounds as good a reason as any. Bottom line is he wants to leave Cincinnati because wifey-poo tells him too. I'd prefer my starting QB to wear the pants at home, because if he ain't wearing them there, he sure as hell ain't wearing them any where else.

[cincyhokie]

Guys we're getting bent over, regardless. You want lube or no lube?

I'll take a 2nd round pick or higher for Palmer. Anything less and I will concede.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Guys we're getting bent over, regardless. You want lube or no lube?

Honestly I'm used to no lube. Hold the spit please.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Guys we're getting bent over, regardless. You want lube or no lube?

Honestly I'm used to no lube. Hold the spit please.

Lube? Hell. Mike Brown wraps it up in 60-grit sandpaper.

[TJJackson]

Guys we're getting bent over, regardless. You want lube or no lube?

Honestly I'm used to no lube. Hold the spit please.

as Bengals (or Cardinals) fans, we're plenty used to no lube

[membengal]

The other good part about joining team "let him rot"? It completely relaxes you about the process as a fan. Instead of getting worked up over why the Bengals won't trade him, you actually can focus on the other parts of the off-season without as much angst. And can do so secure in knowing that if the Bengals will follow through on holding the baby to his threat, they will finally be setting a precedent worth setting.

[cincy9275]

The other good part about joining team "let him rot"? It completely relaxes you about the process as a fan. Instead of getting worked up over why the Bengals won't trade him, you actually can focus on the other parts of the off-season without as much angst. And can do so secure in knowing that if the Bengals will follow through on holding the baby to his threat, they will finally be setting a precedent worth setting.

i don't doubt what mike brown said, he is not dealing palmer. one thing we know is mike sticks to his words. also know mike will not deal a player even when he is being offered a whole draft akili or 2 first round picks chad.

[Sea Ray]

Finally, by being willing to openly criticize his coaches and the work ethic and dedictation of fellow players Cedric Benson showed more leadership than Carson Palmer has ever done. Benson is willing to say what he thinks is wrong and do whatever he thinks will correct the problem. By comparison, Palmer said almost nothing before delivering an ultimatum he doesn't expect to be acted upon.

That's an excellent point and one that hasn't been brought up in 800 or so posts in this thread. Well put. Kudos

[HairOnFire]

The other good part about joining team "let him rot"? It completely relaxes you about the process as a fan. Instead of getting worked up over why the Bengals won't trade him, you actually can focus on the other parts of the off-season without as much angst. And can do so secure in knowing that if the Bengals will follow through on holding the baby to his threat, they will finally be setting a precedent worth setting.

Well said.

But here's the best part. By joining "Team Rot" Bengal fans are able to indulge their inner and primal "f**k'em and forget'em" feelings.....even as "Team Trade" bleats on and on about the need to get closure. As if getting some return in trade for Palmer equates to getting your engagement ring back.

Obviously, it is "Team Trade" that is firmly rooted in spurned girlfriend trappings, not Team Rot. And that's true because the supporters of "Team Trade" have repeatedly admitted that they're not interested in the reasons Palmer wants out, only that he does. So it's perfectly okay in their eyes if Palmer places the Bengals in an impossible position simply because his wife prefers he make his fortune somewhere else.

As for us Rotters, we say....f**k the wife AND the horse she rode in on.

[HairOnFire]

....invite anyone else who doesn't want to be here to take a hike as well.

Physician, heal thyself.

[cincyhokie]

The other good part about joining team "let him rot"? It completely relaxes you about the process as a fan. Instead of getting worked up over why the Bengals won't trade him, you actually can focus on the other parts of the off-season without as much angst. And can do so secure in knowing that if the Bengals will follow through on holding the baby to his threat, they will finally be setting a precedent worth setting.

Well said.

But here's the best part. By joining "Team Rot" Bengal fans are able to indulge their inner and primal "f**k'em and forget'em" feelings.....even as "Team Trade" bleats on and on about the need to get closure. As if getting some return in trade for Palmer equates to getting your engagement ring back.

Obviously, it is "Team Trade" that is firmly rooted in spurned girlfriend trappings, not Team Rot. And that's true because the supporters of "Team Trade" have repeatedly admitted that they're not interested in the reasons Palmer wants out, only that he does. So it's perfectly okay in their eyes if Palmer places the Bengals in an impossible position simply because his wife prefers he make his fortune somewhere else.

As for us Rotters, we say....f**k the wife AND the horse she rode in on.

Um, yeah. I'd prefer the highest compensation to none. In fact, my stance is not emotional but the opposite. Logic states that I have a better chance to improve my team with something (highest compensation) than nothing. Why would I be interested in finding out why Palmer wants out? Don't we know? Isn't it painfully obvious?

I could give a sh*t less if Carson Palmer rots, slowly cooks, disenigrates, burns up with the sun, or flourishes again like a spring flower. I don't give a sh*t. He is no longer a Bengal.

Again. You want lube or no lube?

[HairOnFire]

I'd prefer the highest compensation to none.

True, but you just admitted that you'd settle for nothing if the Bengals aren't offered as much as a 2nd round pick. So there's a limit to what you're willing to accept and it's largely based upon getting enough in return to soften the hit you'll take by losing a starting QB without having a suitable replacement available.

Logic states that I have a better chance to improve my team with something (highest compensation) than nothing.

True, but again, you're more than willing to throw logic out the window if certain conditions aren't met. Furthermore, how logical is it to claim the actual reasons prompting Palmer's actions are irrelevant and unworthy of consideration?

I could give a sh*t less if Carson Palmer rots, slowly cooks, disenigrates, burns up with the sun, or flourishes again like a spring flower. I don't give a sh*t. He is no longer a Bengal.

Actually, he is. Whether he remains an active player or not is up to him and apparently....his wife.

[cincyhokie]

I'd prefer the highest compensation to none.

True, but you just admitted that you'd settle for nothing if the Bengals aren't offered as much as a 2nd round pick. So there's a limit to what you're willing to accept and it's largely based upon getting enough in return to soften the hit you'll take by losing a starting QB without having a suitable replacement available.

Logic states that I have a better chance to improve my team with something (highest compensation) than nothing.

True, but again, you're more than willing to throw logic out the window if certain conditions aren't met. Furthermore, how logical is it to claim the actual reasons prompting Palmer's actions are irrelevant and unworthy of consideration?

I could give a sh*t less if Carson Palmer rots, slowly cooks, disenigrates, burns up with the sun, or flourishes again like a spring flower. I don't give a sh*t. He is no longer a Bengal.

Actually, he is. Whether he remains an active player or not is up to him and apparently....his wife.

True, true, and true. To clarify I am most against the idea that says "don't trade him no matter what". I am saying he's no longer a Bengal because I truely don't think he'll play for them again. That's my mindset.

As far as the girlfriend comparison. It's like one of those girls that you thought you really liked, only to find out she's a dead fish in bed. Always friends, go on your way, and flourish again like a flower, Carson. In the NFCW.

[HairOnFire]

True, true, and true. To clarify I am most against the idea that says "don't trade him no matter what".

I get that. However, you and Hoosier insist the reasons behind Palmer's demand don't matter. I say they matter very much, especially if a core player central to the Bengals plans is attempting to force a trade due to the unhappiness of his spouse.

I am saying he's no longer a Bengal because I truely don't think he'll play for them again. That's my mindset.

We agree. However, I'm perfectly willing to accept the idea that Palmer has retired, thereby relieving the Bengals of the need to pay him 12 million dollars this season. And there's the proverbial rub because IMHO that's a perfectly acceptable worst-case scenario. I don't need a draft pick to ease my suffering. In fact, I specifically don't want a a draft pick if it means I have to indulge the hissy fit of a players wife.

As far as the girlfriend comparison. It's like one of those girls that you thought you really liked, only to find out she's a dead fish in bed.

Exactly. And after finding out how lousy she was in bed how often did you bother thinking of that gal again? Did you even bother trying to get the stuff/draft picks you left behind in her apartment? Of course you didn't. Instead, you put her out of your mind, thereby forcing her to get on with her life without you. Meanwhile, you went looking for someone else to bed.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Exactly. And after finding out how lousy she was in bed how often did you bother thinking of that gal again? Did you even bother trying to get the stuff/draft picks you left behind in her apartment? Of course you didn't. Instead, you put her out of your mind, thereby forcing her to get on with her life without you. Meanwhile, you went looking for someone else to bed.

You might go back for your car, or something else valuable. Like a draft pick, say Besides, this isn't something emotional like a relationship. This is business. People who run their business with that level of emotional involvement aren't successful. Of course, with 2 winning years in 20...

We agree. However, I'm perfectly willing to accept the idea that Palmer has retired, thereby relieving the Bengals of the need to pay him 12 million dollars this season. And there's the proverbial rub because IMHO that's a perfectly acceptable worst-case scenario. I don't need a draft pick to ease my suffering. In fact, I specifically don't want a a draft pick if it means I have to indulge the hissy fit of a players wife.

Couple problems there. First, you indulge the hissy fit either way - she's moving. In fact, she probably gets more of what she wants if he retires. So keep indulging there, Mikey. Second, it's not about your suffering, it's about fielding the best possible team - right?

However, that's not what this is about. I have delved into the depths of the mind of Mike Brown, and I believe this is not about draft picks, or players' baby-mamas, or anything else. No-sireee.

This is about Mike Brown actually wanting Carson to retire. As in, Mikey would rather Carson retire than even *play* for the Bengals. Because if Carson retires, he can go after Carson's signing bonus. And that means more to Mike Brown than draft picks.

[derekshank]

To clarify I am most against the idea that says "don't trade him no matter what".

And to clarify my side... I'm not opposed to trading him, assuming the compensation is adequate. I just think we have different definitions of "adequate" in this scenario.

I'm of the opinion that what Palmer is likely to bring will be a bad deal for the Bengals. And a bad deal for the Bengals means a good deal for some team in the NFCW... and I don't think the Bengals should be in the business of improving other NFL franchises.

Nor do I believe the Bengals should be in the business of rewarding childish behavior... but I was tired of typing that rant 5 pages ago.

[HairOnFire]

You might go back for your car, or something else valuable. Like a draft pick, say Besides, this isn't something emotional like a relationship. This is business.

Right. It's business, and people retire from business all the time.

Couple problems there. First, you indulge the hissy fit either way - she's moving.

Sure, but just because there's a problem there's no requirement or incentive for the Bengals to indulge unreasonable demands, especially if made by player spouse. Furthermore, why should I care one way or another if Palmer's wife moves away? Players being seperated from their immediate families for months at a time isn't uncommon in the NFL.

Second, it's not about your suffering, it's about fielding the best possible team - right?

And what if I think the best way to do that is to either force Palmer to honor his contract or retire, thereby allowing me to search for his eventual replacement without having to pay his 11.5 million dollar salary OR set dangerous precedent.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Right. It's business, and people retire from business all the time.

Businessmen also maximize their assets rather than setting them on fire for spite.

Furthermore, why should I care one way or another if Palmer's wife moves away?

You shouldn't, but you apparently do. Your desire is to not indulge her. Her indulgement is getting to move home and away from Cincinnati. By him getting traded, she maybe goes to Seattle. If he retires, she gets to go where she wants. Your plan maximizes her happiness, which is counterproductive even given your goofy priority order.

And what if I think the best way to do that is to either force Palmer to honor his contract or retire, thereby allowing me to search for his eventual replacement without having to pay his 11.5 million dollar salary OR set dangerous precedent.

Arguing on the basis of salary has no comparative value for your argument, as you also clear his salary by trading him. The precedent thing is dumb as bricks, since Mikey's been adopting this mule-headed stance for 20 years and it apparently doesn't deter players from doing it anyway. So you screw your team to satisfy a spiteful personal agenda, which will probably blow up in your face anyway? Yeah, that sounds smart, Mikey. Passing up Danny's picks to make OchoTardo play for you really paid off, right? And to top it all off, it even yielded no deterrence value, since here we are.

Like I said, the only thing that *does* make business sense is that Mikey wants to get $20M out of this deal, not $12M. Do I correctly recall a PFT rumor from early in the offseason that Bengals management was going to ask Carson to take a pay cut or else cut him? What would be better than not only not having to accelerate the cap hit of cutting him, but being able to actually recover his pro-rated signing bonus?

Now that actually might make business sense.

[derekshank]

The precedent thing is dumb as bricks, since Mikey's been adopting this mule-headed stance for 20 years and it apparently doesn't deter players from doing it anyway.

Lies and misinformation.

Seriously... everyone keeps talking about how this has been MB's stance for 20 years when the opposite has been true.

Chad was the first player to receive this policy from MB... which was why he was so bewildered by it.

Name the players from the last 20 years forced to stay here against their will. One name. Please.

I've already established how Boomer, Pickens, Dillon, and Wilkinson were all given trades when they requested them. So... name the guys who MB forced to stay in stripes.

[HoosierCat]

Businessmen also maximize their assets rather than setting them on fire for spite.

Exactly. More than that, the best-run businesses are run by people who don't worry about what the competition's doing, they worry about what they are doing. I'm not concerned about what Palmer may do elsewhere, I'm concerned about the way the Bengals continue to bleed talent year after year, as they appear poised to do yet again with J-Joe. Same damn excuse that lost us Steinbach, Madieu and Justin: "oh, they aren't worth X." Yet for as bad as those guys allegedly were, none of those positions have been upgraded since. Now we're poised to swap J-Joe for Pacman (a step down) and I will bet money when Hall's up there will be no shortage of voices crying "he's not worth $10 million a year either."

So trade Palmer. Get picks. The draft seems to be just about the only route to improving the team these days. Logic dictates we therefore need all the draft day ammo we can get.

[membengal]

The precedent thing is dumb as bricks, since Mikey's been adopting this mule-headed stance for 20 years and it apparently doesn't deter players from doing it anyway.

Lies and misinformation.

Seriously... everyone keeps talking about how this has been MB's stance for 20 years when the opposite has been true.

Chad was the first player to receive this policy from MB... which was why he was so bewildered by it.

Name the players from the last 20 years forced to stay here against their will. One name. Please.

I've already established how Boomer, Pickens, Dillon, and Wilkinson were all given trades when they requested them. So... name the guys who MB forced to stay in stripes.

You will be waiting awhile. Because they cannot name them.

As for the capitulate crowd, how far is that crowd willing to go? What if Rey/Hall/Whitworth/Peko all decide they have had enough of being Bengal and let it be known they want to be traded too? Or they will retire and never play again. Give into them too? Salvage it with draft picks? Seriously? Inmates. Asylum.

As for the capitulate crowd's complaints about how Mikey B has brought this on himself (something I don't dispute), how, precisely, does giving into Palmer address that particular problem? Does giving into Palmer's extortion somehow make what ails the Bengals all better? Because, I don't see it. Derek is right. They have given in for YEARS to such demands. YEARS. And how has that worked?

What still gets me is this...Palmer signed the f**kin' contract. Willingly. Gladly. Without a second thought. That means something. It wasn't signed-until-things-got-f**kin-hard. It doesn't work that way. He wants out? Mothballs is his way out. With a dishonorable discharge for being a quitter.

[jjakq27]

The slightly crazy sounding rant about Palmer being puzzy whipped gathers momentum...

Posted Today, 05:13 PM

Dave Lapham - 03-09-2011 02:45 PM

Carson's wife is a big factor in this. She definitely wants out of Cincinnati. Unhappy wife=unhappy life. In the meeting Carson had with Mike Brown face to face all he said was he was unhappy. He would not divulge the specifics of his unhappiness. If you are trying to move on to another franchise, I guess it makes sense to not rip the organization of the guy you are trying to get to move you. My understanding is Marvin Lewis went to California later to see Carson face to face and came out of that session feeling Carson was determined in his resolve to move on. I saw Carson leave the locker room the day after the season ended and he had packed up his entire locker. Nothing left behind. His mind was made up then. It will be interesting to see if Marvin can get Mike to soften his position about trading disgruntled players under contract. Particularly the player Mike looks at as the face of his franchise. If the market will bear a 2nd rounder you have to pull the trigger on that don't you? I believe he has 3-5 years left if he avoids any more injury. Knee reconstruction, ligament damage to the throwing elbow.....that's plenty to deal with for any career.

http://footballpros....n-Palmer-Enigma

I wonder what he told Marvin during their visit? "Hey coach it's not you."

And when he met with Mike Brown in person? "Gee Mr. Brown, it's not you."

And when he called Brat after he got canned? "Hey Bob, it's not you."

Somewhere I suspect that a "yes Dear" was uttered near the end of the season.

[Sea Ray]

Like I said, the only thing that *does* make business sense is that Mikey wants to get $20M out of this deal, not $12M. Do I correctly recall a PFT rumor from early in the offseason that Bengals management was going to ask Carson to take a pay cut or else cut him? What would be better than not only not having to accelerate the cap hit of cutting him, but being able to actually recover his pro-rated signing bonus?

Now that actually might make business sense.

Opinions are fine and dandy but let's not lose sight of the facts. First of all there's been no indication that Carson was ever asked to take a pay cut.

Secondly there is no bonus money for Carson to pay back nor will there be any cap hit if Carson is traded or released. Like most teams, the Bengals figured signing bonuses into last year since it was an uncapped year. I don't think it's any coincidence that now that his signing bonus is "accounted for" that he's now making this threat.

Here is what we do know. Palmer is scheduled to make $50 million in base salary the next four years $11.5 million next season and 12, $13 million in 13 and $14 million in 14. In terms of guaranteed money, the last of the $9 million option bonus counted this year and the last of the $15 million roster bonus counted against the cap last year...He is due a $1 million roster bonus each season from 2012-14, but only if he is on the roster on the 15th day of the new league year.

In other words, and its not so far fetched, the Bengals could elect to release Palmer and not take a cap hit.

/>http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2010/12/18/reading-the-tea-leaves-on-palmers-future/

Where this gets interesting is in 2012 and that $1mill roster bonus. My guess is if he is not traded this year, he will come back for the minimal amount of games in 2011 to qualify his year and also so he can hang that $1mill roster bonus over MB's head a year from now. The threat of his coming back does screw the Bengals somewhat because it means they have to keep cap space open to accommodate such a move.

All in all there's no financial incentive for MB to hang onto CP. None. In fact he risks having to pay him when/if CP decides to show up. Financially speaking MB would be much better off to let him walk.

[Kazkal]

What still gets me is this...Palmer signed the f**kin' contract. Willingly. Gladly. Without a second thought. That means something. It wasn't signed-until-things-got-f**kin-hard. It doesn't work that way. He wants out? Mothballs is his way out. With a dishonorable discharge for being a quitter.

He was hyped up from the 2005 season and thought his franchise had turned things around,Five years later 4 Losing Seasons 1 winning.

keep cap space open to accommodate such a move.

-Since when does mike spend up to the cap? more so with us not resigning Joseph or Cedric we'll have plenty of cap space?

[HairOnFire]

Right. It's business, and people retire from business all the time.

Businessmen also maximize their assets rather than setting them on fire for spite.

Spite has nothing to do with it. By all accounts Mike Brown's primary motivation for refusing a trade is to force Carson Palmer, the Bengals highest paid player and a starter at their most critical position, to return to the Bengals. If successful I'd say it would be a rather neat demonstration of attempting to maximize an asset, and a far easier strategy to defend than one based upon trading Palmer under fire sale conditions.

Furthermore, most trade Palmer scenarios are linked to finding an immediate replacment in the draft, and a seemingly high number of those rants are based upon knowingly overdrafting a rookie QB using the "QB Trumps All" strategy....thereby minimizing a 2nd important asset.

Furthermore, why should I care one way or another if Palmer's wife moves away?

You shouldn't, but you apparently do. Your desire is to not indulge her.

No, my intent is to ignore her. Completely. Her concerns are not mine, nor should they concern Mike Brown. They're the concern of Carson Palmer, I admit, but that's a personal matter for him to deal with. But point blank, Carson's wife has no contract with the Bengals and thus...no seat at the table.

Arguing on the basis of salary has no comparative value for your argument, as you also clear his salary by trading him.

True, but I mentioned salary specifically because, prior to Palmer's threat to retire, any realistic scenario involving the Bengals attempting to find a replacement for Palmer, as they claim was already being debated, likely involved paying Palmer until a rookie was sufficiently groomed....to the tune of 11.5 million per. For example, any ideal scenario involving Cam Newton includes letting him learn for a year or more. Palmer's retirement liberates the Bengals. They move on instantly. They pocket 11.5 million previously allocated to a dispirited shell of a QB. They don't set dangerous precent. And best, they once again squash a players power play simply by doing nothing.

Passive aggressive hardball to the death?