Carson Palmer Thread

[HairOnFire]

If you want to see the ultimate "F*CKED" situation. Watch the Bengals draft a QB within the first two rounds, Mike Brown stuck to not trading Carson, and then Carson changing his mind and reports to camp. I think that would piss Mike Brown off real good. I don't think it will happen, but it would be interesting.

If the Bengals don't draft a QB with the 4th overall pick, but do select one in later rounds, I'd expect Mike Brown to do handstands of joy at the sight of Carson Palmer returning to the fold at the start of camp. Because the combined salaries of the QB's would be both easily absorbed and easily justified. Furthermore, the same would be true to a lesser degree even if the Bengals drafted a player like Gabbert in the 1st round.

Under the above scenario the only thing Carson Palmer would have accomplished is forcing the Bengals to draft a better backup QB, something they should have done years earlier.

[membengal]

I've picked my side. f**k palmer. He didn't have to sign the contract. But he did. So this trade me or I quit thing? Selfish to the extreme. The bed he lies in he helped make. f**k him sideways. Quitter.

[cincyhokie]

I've picked my side. f**k palmer. He didn't have to sign the contract. But he did. So this trade me or I quit thing? Selfish to the extreme. The bed he lies in he helped make. f**k him sideways. Quitter.

The team I care about and root for has the ball in their court. Get compensation to improve the team or miss another chance at change and improvement cutting off their own nose. Not trading Palmer does nothing for this team. That's who I care about. Palmer the ex-Bengal is no longer a concern of mine.

The Bengals don't have control over the decision Palmer makes, they do have control over what they do with his rights. As a Bengals fan, I hope they make the right decision. The ball is in their court.

[cincyhokie]

I figured out a few years ago that calling my ex-girlfriend names and complaining about her to my friends didn't make her come back to me. Even if she did, the relationship would not have been the same and it would have sucked.

It's over, move on. Energy is better spent on things you can control. Make the trade.

[HairOnFire]

Oh, bulls**t. A team might ask him behind closed doors but he doesn't have to say thing one to us.

Sorry Hoosier, I didn't know you had covered this ground already

IMHO you should always count on Hoosier to point out the pointless.

In this case Hoosier shouts loudly about what Carson Palmer doesn't have to do, as if the lack of hard obligation will be enough to allow Palmer to spend the next few months and years never addressing the things that prompted his trade demand and a threat of retirement. Nevermind the fact that Palmer's motivation for speaking out in his own behalf will only increase with each passing day, month, and year.

Seriously, do any of you really think Palmer will be allowed to resume his career here or elsewhere without explaining in some detail about what brought things to a breaking point?

[BengalByTheBay]

I've picked my side. f**k palmer. He didn't have to sign the contract. But he did. So this trade me or I quit thing? Selfish to the extreme. The bed he lies in he helped make. f**k him sideways. Quitter.

The team I care about and root for has the ball in their court. Get compensation to improve the team or miss another chance at change and improvement cutting off their own nose. Not trading Palmer does nothing for this team. That's who I care about. Palmer the ex-Bengal is no longer a concern of mine.

The Bengals don't have control over the decision Palmer makes, they do have control over what they do with his rights. As a Bengals fan, I hope they make the right decision. The ball is in their court.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Palmer retires aren't the Bengals out from under one of the higher salaries in the NFL? Sure, they don't get a player or a pick, but the $$$ would presumably be there for a FA deal or, more likely from the Bengals' historical behavior, re-signing JJoe or Ced, extending Hall, etc., which is much the same thing as getting a player in a trade. So, no trade doesn't equate to no benefit. Moreover, if everybody in the league thinks the Bengals have no option but to trade him, his trade value goes down accordingly.

[BengalByTheBay]

Nevermind the fact that Palmer's motivation for speaking out in his own behalf will only increase with each passing day, month, and year.

Seriously, do any of you really think Palmer will be allowed to resume his career here or elsewhere without explaining in some detail about what brought things to a breaking point?

If he goes to a new team, he will have to come up with some explanation for the press conference because those are team PR for the fans. He will have to look the new team's fans in the eye and say "something" about why it's okay to force a team to trade him. I doubt there'll be much insight there, however. Most fan bases are happy to accept inferences that he only couldn't stand it because it was the Bengals and the [49'ers, Cardinals, Seahawks, ______] are different because - after all - everybody knows the Bengals are a terrible team to play for...

[cincyhokie]

I've picked my side. f**k palmer. He didn't have to sign the contract. But he did. So this trade me or I quit thing? Selfish to the extreme. The bed he lies in he helped make. f**k him sideways. Quitter.

The team I care about and root for has the ball in their court. Get compensation to improve the team or miss another chance at change and improvement cutting off their own nose. Not trading Palmer does nothing for this team. That's who I care about. Palmer the ex-Bengal is no longer a concern of mine.

The Bengals don't have control over the decision Palmer makes, they do have control over what they do with his rights. As a Bengals fan, I hope they make the right decision. The ball is in their court.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Palmer retires aren't the Bengals out from under one of the higher salaries in the NFL? Sure, they don't get a player or a pick, but the $$$ would presumably be there for a FA deal or, more likely from the Bengals' historical behavior, re-signing JJoe or Ced, extending Hall, etc., which is much the same thing as getting a player in a trade. So, no trade doesn't equate to no benefit. Moreover, if everybody in the league thinks the Bengals have no option but to trade him, his trade value goes down accordingly.

Sure. I hope they trade him. I don't care about what's perceived right now. If the Bengals are taking a stance of no trade to drive up his value then that's great. I'm all for that. Won't know until it happens, though.

If the Bengals don't trade him, then I'm not sure he doesn't count against the cap. I could be wrong though. Even so, nothing says Mikey has to spend that money saved. But let's not kid ourselves, if the Bengals don't trade him and let him retire, they are idiots. You have a team with many holes...many holes that could be filled with draft picks.

[membengal]

I would perfectly content w/ palmer rotting before bemoaning lost picks that the bengals will inevitabely f**k up anyway.

I am on team let-him-rot.

[HairOnFire]

Nevermind the fact that Palmer's motivation for speaking out in his own behalf will only increase with each passing day, month, and year.

Seriously, do any of you really think Palmer will be allowed to resume his career here or elsewhere without explaining in some detail about what brought things to a breaking point?

If he goes to a new team, he will have to come up with some explanation for the press conference because those are team PR for the fans. He will have to look the new team's fans in the eye and say "something" about why it's okay to force a team to trade him.

Exactly.

Frankly, it's flat out ridiculous to assume Palmer can put these types of things in motion without ever having to explain his actions or what led to them. Granted, beaten down shlubs like Hoosier may be willing to give Palmer a pass on everything, but that's probably true only because most Bengal fans prefer wallowing about in their own vague and undefined Mike Brown conspiracy theories. As for me, I'd expect Palmer to be held to the same standards as any other starting QB would if they threatened to abandon their own career with 4 years left on their contract. Furthermore, if I were a fan of a team that had just traded for Palmer I'd have plenty of questions and concerns about his health, the level of his skills, and his heart. I'd want to hear from him why he doesn't consider himself a quitter when in reality that's exactly what he's doing. And yeah, I'd expect to hear those answers directly from Palmer, not from a family friend or a real estate agent.

He will have to look the new team's fans in the eye and say "something" about why it's okay to force a team to trade him. I doubt there'll be much insight there, however. Most fan bases are happy to accept inferences that he only couldn't stand it because it was the Bengals...

Forget the fanbases of other teams for a minute. I'd say this teams own fanbase is only too happy to accept the explanation that every problem relating to the Bengals is the sole fault of the team. In fact, regardless of their behavior Bengal players are almost always given a pass by fans...often without any explanation required. For example, even now guys like Hoosier are waxing poetically and idiotically about how Bengal fans don't actually deserve a comment from Palmer, and expecting one borders on hysterical feminine behavior. Yet you agree that a casual fan of Palmer's next team is very likely to get answers to the very same questions that Bengals fans have.

As for insight? That's impossible to predict, but I'm reminded of Housh spilling his guts after signing with the Seahawks, a series of remarks that began with brags and boasts and quickly ended with statements of regret.

[derekshank]

I don't think a trade is coming. Not this season anyway. Maybe a trade will come in a future season on MBs terms, but not Palmer's. If Palmer wants to retire, MB will let him.

MB has traded players at their request in the past and I think he now feels like he set a bad precedent. He took a hard stance with Chad as if to say, "I'm the one in charge here. I'm tired of being pushed around by players. If you want to play in the NFL, it will be as a Bengal. If not, don't let the door hit you in the ass."

Honestly, I respect the hell out of that stance.

[HoosierCat]

Most fan bases are happy to accept inferences that he only couldn't stand it because it was the Bengals and the [49'ers, Cardinals, Seahawks, ______] are different because - after all - everybody knows the Bengals are a terrible team to play for...

Exactly. As I said somewhere in the preceding 30-odd pages, not wanting to play in Cincinnati is hardly viewed as a negative around the rest of the league.

[COB]

"I'm the one in charge here. I'm tired of being pushed around by players. If you want to play in the NFL, it will be as a Bengal. If not, don't let the door hit you in the ass."

Honestly, I respect the hell out of that stance.

OK. Mike wins. What does he win?

[HairOnFire]

OK. Mike wins. What does he win?

A future where fewer Bengal players attempt to force their way off the teams roster without giving any consideration to the teams long-term planning?

[membengal]

Correct. And that's not a small thing at all.

[cincyhokie]

OK. Mike wins. What does he win?

A future where fewer Bengal players attempt to force their way off the teams roster without giving any consideration to the teams long-term planning?

Because that stopped Boomer Esiason and Carl Pickens and Takeo Spikes and Corey Dillon and Chad Johnson and now Carson Palmer.

I think it's more likely to keep away free agents and players thinking about agreeing to new deals and contract extensions.

Players don't want to play here. How about fixing THAT problem?

[Sea Ray]

OK. Mike wins. What does he win?

A future where fewer Bengal players attempt to force their way off the teams roster without giving any consideration to the teams long-term planning?

Seems to me that should have happened after the way he handled Chad but apparently not. We gave up two 1st rd picks to make that point. In hindsight I don't think MB's principled stand gained much

[cincyhokie]

I'm on the team of "pay attention to obvious signs of dysfunction and fix it".

I'm also on the team called "find players who want to play for the team and get rid of the ones who don't."

[derekshank]

"I'm the one in charge here. I'm tired of being pushed around by players. If you want to play in the NFL, it will be as a Bengal. If not, don't let the door hit you in the ass."

Honestly, I respect the hell out of that stance.

OK. Mike wins. What does he win?

That's not what I was saying. I'm simply saying, it's nice to know that the guy known mostly for being a softy for guys with rough pasts isn't exactly spineless. He's calling the shots, and he won't be bullied.

But to answer your question... What does he win? It can't be boiled down to just the one situation. Vincent Jackson lost to AJ Smith. What did AJ Smith gain in that situation... not much. But, guess what will be on the mind of the next guy who wants to hold out? The precedent has been set.

[derekshank]

OK. Mike wins. What does he win?

A future where fewer Bengal players attempt to force their way off the teams roster without giving any consideration to the teams long-term planning?

Because that stopped Boomer Esiason and Carl Pickens and Takeo Spikes and Corey Dillon and Chad Johnson and now Carson Palmer.

It takes time to establish a new precedent. Boomer, Pickens, Spikes, and Dillon all got their way. A new precedent is being set. And it wasn't just a "f**k you" to Chad. When everyone sees that the same precedent applies to Palmer, people will take notice.

[cincyhokie]

I would perfectly content w/ palmer rotting before bemoaning lost picks that the bengals will inevitabely f**k up anyway.

I am on team let-him-rot.

I'm more pissed at the team that continually f**ks up draft picks and conducts itself in ways in which the players want to leave. Palmer's gone and the feelings of resentment will leave.

The good news for those pissed off at Palmer is that there will be another high profile player to do the same thing a few years from now.

[cincyhokie]

OK. Mike wins. What does he win?

A future where fewer Bengal players attempt to force their way off the teams roster without giving any consideration to the teams long-term planning?

Because that stopped Boomer Esiason and Carl Pickens and Takeo Spikes and Corey Dillon and Chad Johnson and now Carson Palmer.

It takes time to establish a new precedent. Boomer, Pickens, Spikes, and Dillon all got their way. A new precedent is being set. And it wasn't just a "f**k you" to Chad. When everyone sees that the same precedent applies to Palmer, people will take notice.

YEAH!!!! That's awesome. Too bad our record the last 20 years hasn't reflected that much emphasis or concerted effort or "heel digging". Chad's efforts really kept Carson from doing what he's doing.

Our goal of keeping players here against their will is almost near!!!! I can see it! A team full of malcontents with 2 playoff appearances in 20 years! Wooooo! We're winning the war of attrition, boys!

[derekshank]

OK. Mike wins. What does he win?

A future where fewer Bengal players attempt to force their way off the teams roster without giving any consideration to the teams long-term planning?

Because that stopped Boomer Esiason and Carl Pickens and Takeo Spikes and Corey Dillon and Chad Johnson and now Carson Palmer.

It takes time to establish a new precedent. Boomer, Pickens, Spikes, and Dillon all got their way. A new precedent is being set. And it wasn't just a "f**k you" to Chad. When everyone sees that the same precedent applies to Palmer, people will take notice.

YEAH!!!! That's awesome. Too bad our record the last 20 years hasn't reflected that much emphasis or concerted effort or "heel digging". Chad's efforts really kept Carson from doing what he's doing.

Our goal of keeping players here against their will is almost near!!!! I can see it! A team full of malcontents with 2 playoff appearances in 20 years! Wooooo! We're winning the war of attrition, boys!

You've got it all wrong. You don't have to stay against your will.

You can stay and try to be part of the solution. You can do what Chad did and sabotage your own career. You can retire. There are plenty of options. But you can't dictate to the ownership where you will or won't play the game of football.

If you want to do that, buy Madden 12 and fantasize about what might have been. Otherwise, get to work and make the best of the situation like virtually every other American worker who is trying to better his sitatuion. If you're too weak-minded for the task, I hope you enjoy watching football on TV like the rest of us.

[cincyhokie]

OK. Mike wins. What does he win?

A future where fewer Bengal players attempt to force their way off the teams roster without giving any consideration to the teams long-term planning?

Because that stopped Boomer Esiason and Carl Pickens and Takeo Spikes and Corey Dillon and Chad Johnson and now Carson Palmer.

It takes time to establish a new precedent. Boomer, Pickens, Spikes, and Dillon all got their way. A new precedent is being set. And it wasn't just a "f**k you" to Chad. When everyone sees that the same precedent applies to Palmer, people will take notice.

YEAH!!!! That's awesome. Too bad our record the last 20 years hasn't reflected that much emphasis or concerted effort or "heel digging". Chad's efforts really kept Carson from doing what he's doing.

Our goal of keeping players here against their will is almost near!!!! I can see it! A team full of malcontents with 2 playoff appearances in 20 years! Wooooo! We're winning the war of attrition, boys!

You've got it all wrong. You don't have to stay against your will.

You can stay and try to be part of the solution. You can do what Chad did and sabotage your own career. You can retire. There are plenty of options. But you can't dictate to the ownership where you will or won't play the game of football.

If you want to do that, buy Madden 12 and fantasize about what might have been. Otherwise, get to work and make the best of the situation like virtually every other American worker who is trying to better his sitatuion. If you're too weak-minded for the task, I hope you enjoy watching football on TV like the rest of us.

Agreed. That's an option for Carson Palmer. Since he is no longer a Bengal in my eyes, I'm more concerned with what my team is doing to address the problem. We obviously can't control Palmer's decisions. We can have influence on having players here that actually want to be here. What a novel idea!

The real issue is this: Why do the Bengals have this problem WAY more than other teams? Hmmmm....and if this can't be answered without redirecting it to the player's decisions then we have a serious problem.

[HairOnFire]

OK. Mike wins. What does he win?

A future where fewer Bengal players attempt to force their way off the teams roster without giving any consideration to the teams long-term planning?

Because that stopped Boomer Esiason and Carl Pickens and Takeo Spikes and Corey Dillon and Chad Johnson and now Carson Palmer.

I put the word fewer in bold for a reason. Furthermore, Takeo Spikes doesn't fit the profile of star player demanding a trade or threatening to retire AFTER signing a massive contract extension that had made them one of the NFL's highest paid players at their positions. Rather, Spikes was a player who wanted to move on and did so after playing out his original contract, thereby gaining his free agency. Chad didn't do that. Dillon didn't either. And had Palmer done as Spikes did he'd be playing elsewhere already. Instead, each agreed to huge contract exensions and massive bonuse payments in exchange for a pledge of service that made them central to the team's long-term planning. Finally, I'm reminded that your boy Boomer found life away from Cincy to be very much the same, from New York to Arizona, and his disdain for all things Bengals wasn't enough to keep him from returning.

Players don't want to play here. How about fixing THAT problem?

And if I can't? What if for reasons I'm unable to control, or simply due to my own raging incompetence, I'm unable to produce anything better than a marginal NFL franchise doomed to play mediocre professional football in relative backwater obscurity? Should I accept my sad fate without protest and grant full control to every player who threatens to withhold his services regardless of contract status or importance to the teams future planning?

f**k that.